r/PoursTea • Timendi Causa Est Nescire • Sep 15 '26

Murdered By Words 🩸 A very good point.

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7.6k Upvotes

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14

u/FedrinKeening Sep 15 '26

For the geniuses posting comments. The whole point is to use tax money to run a grocery store at a loss to make food cheaper.

1

u/uberfr4gger Sep 15 '26

Are the stores restricted to just people below a certain income threshold? If not wouldn't it be more effective to directly give money to people who need it?

1

u/lnth1 Sep 15 '26

Guess they do drugs with it instead.

But seriously, the likelihood of those checks being misused is not negligible it seems.

1

u/Enorats Sep 15 '26

Which is why the grocery stores are fighting it. They, for obvious reasons, cannot operate at a loss.

It's also why it's an absolutely idiotic plan.

1

u/cygnus311 Sep 15 '26

Which is why the grocery stores are pissed. They can’t sell food at a loss and absorb the costs with government subsidies. And if the government grocery stores succeeds, they either have to try and go out of business because they don’t make money, or not try and go out of business because they don’t have customers. Because the government run store subsidies their costs with taxes.

1

u/lwb03dc Sep 15 '26

The plan is to have 5 government owned stores. There are about 5,600 grocery stores in NYC.

If these 5 stores can single handedly bankrupt 5600 stores across the city, while only selling essentials, with very limited selections, and stringent regulations, then you guys have bigger things to worry about.

1

u/Side-aye Sep 15 '26

5 stores go up, kill their local competitors. Then they have to expand the service and product range to compensate for the local stores closing. Mamdani stores now compete with less competition and have to expand to meet the need of more people who had their local private grocery close down.

20 years later there’s less competition overall at best or a government owned privately operated monopoly loss leader at worst.

1

u/lwb03dc Sep 15 '26

These 5 stores costs the goverment $70m, that's $14m per store.

To run 5000 stores, it would cost the goverment $70 billion. Let's say they get some economies of scale, and just say the cost is $60 billion.

That's HALF of NYC's annual budget of $121 billion.

Is it really that hard to stop with the random doomer circle jerk, and actually think about this rationally?

1

u/Side-aye Sep 15 '26

I agree 70 million is absurd but I wouldn’t assume that they wouldn’t bend or betray the project as the problem gets bigger by raising prices or abandoning it.

I don’t think the stores would ever reach the point of monopoly because it would be pulled before it would get that bad but that doesn’t mean it isn’t set for that trajectory if it was allowed to do what many of its supporters want it to, weather they realize it or not.

I’m not doomer it’s just bad policy

1

u/StreamWave190 Sep 15 '26

What do you think happens to the immigrant-run and working class bodegas which won't be able to compete since they don't receive subsidies and therefore can't run at a loss?

1

u/Curious_Sentence7770 Sep 15 '26

The bodegas can't compete with the volume prices of grocery stores anyways?

They make their livings on location and a wider selection of goods, not selling bread and pasta. They'll be largely unaffected.

0

u/FedrinKeening Sep 15 '26

I care more about people receiving affordable food than business owners.

2

u/StreamWave190 Sep 15 '26

And the consequence of your lovely humanitarian view is that they won't get abundant cheap food, you'll just have Soviet style bread queues down the street because prices will no longer reflect actual supply and demand, so the only thing left to do is ration supplies. And you'll have crushed the private market run by relatively poor immigrant families, making them unemployed as well, just in time to join at the back of the queue you created.

Second-order consequences are a thing, look it up!

1

u/ArcaneArcher89 Sep 15 '26

Actually, the only people who will stand in line are the people who value saving the difference for the amount of time they would spend. If you make 200k/year, and stand in a 5 hour line for a load of bread instead of going to the for profit store down the street, that’s a you problem. NYC especially has the income distribution to support things like this. That’s why so many bodegas can exist to begin with. Because no one is traveling 30min on the subway to save 20 cents.

1

u/xSearingx Sep 15 '26

you arent thinking long-term or about any unintended consequences. First its super important to point out that regular grocery stores are one of capitalisms great success stories. The margins are super tight, think low single digits, because competition is so fierce.

If you think NYC can run a grocery store and better than Costo you are out of your mind. Costo's low prices are decades of research into distribution and buying at incredible scale that NYC will not be able to match with a dozen stores. and Cost margins are low single digits, think 3-6%.

if you under cut a regular grocery store making low margins by even a little bit you put them out of business. what does that mean? the City run stores will need to get much bigger because regular business is shutting down, and the city run stores instead of costing hundred million a year now costs hundreds of million a year and the City store is literally the only store in town.

This also leaves out people coming from out of state and buying and reselling and a hundred other issues when you sell something below market pricing.

1

u/Benie99 Sep 15 '26

I am sure you don’t care because it’s not your business.

0

u/Terrible_Cable_4472 Sep 15 '26

They took the risk.

1

u/StreamWave190 Sep 15 '26

No, they didn't.

There was never any reasonable risk when they started these bodegas, which run on razor-thin margins, that the state would start running state-owned grocery shops at a deliberate loss in order to put businesses owned by people out of business.

You want Soviet bread lines. You will get Soviet bread lines.

1

u/Ok-Tip-3560 Sep 16 '26

These people are all too stupid to realize the veracity of this post.

0

u/WeArePandey Sep 15 '26

Is it running at a loss?

2

u/RedditUser19984321 Sep 15 '26

Yes, it is reported to operate at a loss covered by tax payers.

0

u/WeArePandey Sep 15 '26

That framing comes from Fox News.

The rent is covered because they operate off of city property. (Taking off a large expense in NYC). By selling a smaller basket of white-label goods, they also eliminate a lot of operating expenses associated with managing a full supermarket.

So, yes, it won't be profitable. Might even make a loss, but not impossible to break even.

In either case, I'd rather my tax dollars feed some kid in NYC and not kill a school kid in Iran.

2

u/RedditUser19984321 Sep 15 '26

It’s covering a 30% discount, I don’t see that NOT operating a loss when grocery stores report razor thin profit margins as it is. Majority of grocery stores report near to nothing in profit and they make up for it by having a mass abundance of stores where they eventually get a 3% profit margin.

I don’t see how it’s viable here at all.

1

u/justanotherthrxw234 Sep 15 '26

The largest operating expense for retailers by far is labor. Which is especially relevant here if the workers will be paid a “living wage”.

So yes it’s pretty much guaranteed to take a loss.

1

u/TJJ97 Sep 15 '26

Shhh, people don’t understand how “living wages” affect businesses and prices.

1

u/uberfr4gger Sep 15 '26

If they are using the property that means the government is missing out on property tax revenue from the sites too. I would much rather give my tax dollars directly to people who need it rather than the government operate a grocery store with notoriously small margins that has the potential to hurt small business owners and provide benefits to people who actually aren't income / food insecure

1

u/Ok-Tip-3560 Sep 16 '26

They aren’t running yet.

0

u/RegularVast9328 Sep 15 '26

Id assume you can run it and get a small profit.

1

u/WeArePandey Sep 15 '26

Maybe not, but could break even if it only provides a limited selection of white-label staples.

It still would need some subsidies. But of all the things that my taxes could fund, this would be top of the pile. I'd rather my tax goes towards feeding someone in NYC instead of killing some school kid halfway around the world.

1

u/RegularVast9328 Sep 15 '26

I was thinking about how they wouldn't be worried about a bad month forcing them to close.

1

u/WeArePandey Sep 15 '26

That too. It's the richest city in the richest country in the world. Anyone going hungry is an abomination.

1

u/Dormant_DonJuan Sep 15 '26

Your city tax (which is what this will be subsidized by) doesn't go to killing kids halfway around the world. That would only be your federal tax. Any shortfall these stores make will be pulled from your city taxes, which means another city service makes do with less. I like 90%+ of the things Mamdani does, but these completely ignore the reality of profit margins in the grocery space, which hover between 1 and 5 percent. This simply isn't a situation like Healthcare where the margins and lack of competition make government intervention worthwhile.

1

u/MamasCupcakes Sep 15 '26

The city pension invests/buys bonds from isreal. So it does in fact go to killing kids halfway around the world