alternatively she could have squirrelled away what money she had and gave up whatever small luxuries she could afford, and then lost all the money to medical debt anyway
This is why I haven’t stressed about saving. My mom did, then got diagnosed with MS, had to move into a full term care facility, and it was all gone. Had to get rid of all assets for medicaid to pay for it. Or you can private pay and the money is gone quickly anyway.
Exactly! My grandpa scrimped and saved. He became a self made millionaire but only to get dementia, be forced into a nursing home because all the grandchildren couldn’t agree on his care, and the nursing home basically took it all in the end! System sucks!
Weird way to look at it. Here's another way: if he hadn't saved all that money that ended up paying for his care, what would have happened to him? That's the whole point of saving, to have money to survive on at the end of your life, the money went towards exactly what he saved it for
Do y'all just fundamentally not understand savings?
Well he lived to be 106 years old!! I took care of him for 20 YEARS, until my husband’s job forced him to relocate because of a plant closing! My grandfather wanted to move with us but the three other grandchildren wouldn’t agree (two of which are lawyers and they put up a fuss BUT also didn’t have the time to take care of him!)
I gave up ALOT of my life to be my grandfather’s caregiver. He wanted to leave me a nice inheritance in exchange for the years that I gave him of my life and time. A life changing amount of inheritance! That ended up going to a nursing home that took care of him for SIX YEARS!
I think the take-home here is that caregivers are worth something and need income and it ought not to be taboo to make that known and addressed upfront. 20 years of caregiving could have resulted in some sort of a payment plan instead of expecting an inheritance. I understand family dynamics weigh heavily in this but lots of older adults need to have this conversation with their kids if they expect to age at home.
America has a real identity crisis. Millions upon millions of Americans still believe that hard work and diligent saving will pay off.
THE SOCIAL CONTRACT IS BROKEN!(been broke)
Citizens obey laws and pay taxes; the state provides defense, infrastructure, legal systems, and public safety.
We are still roughly obeying laws and paying tax. The state has been privately captured in probably every sector. This means that the corporate entities will continue to hollow out the farce that is the American government and we can continue to be blissfully unware that a foreign, hostile, entity will not help us when the time comes.
It does pay off for millions and millions. You must have a bad job or bad saving/investing practices. Because financial independence over time is absolutely achievable here. It is easier to just whine on the internet about how unfair it is, though.
System sucks??? Our parents and grandparents took care of many of the elderly much longer. We certainly can put the cost on the government but that takes hiring a lot of people at fairly high costs and ultimately we pay for it anyhow. Likely more as the costs are higher when someone else does it.
I understand the difficulties when the family does it but to say the system sucks is not really accurate.
They did it at one time. Multiple family member. But yes that is always a problem and the solutions are not easy. But you cannot blame the system unless you want to fund it more. But that funding come from other services or we raise taxes. And before we blame the wealthy (and wealth inequality is an issue), there simply are not enough of them to pay for any one of these issues. And there are lots.
Being we are living longer and expecting others to care for our family members, the main way to fund fund meaning ensure resources (human and materials) are available is if we work longer into retirement. Working till 70 will likely be the new norm.
No sympathy for the grandkids in this case. Definitely sympathize with the granddad tho. If the brats can't figure out how to take care of the grandpa, they shouldn't get any inheritance at the expense or tax payer. Social safety net should exist for the responsible old man tho - he did the right things if he saved up. As a taxpayer, I shouldn't have to care more about the old man than the grandkids themselves. Wth?
I took care of him for 20 years! He lived to be 106 years old. I was forced to relocate to another state for my husband’s career. The plan was to bring grandpa with us! The three other grandchildren…two lawyers and one a physician’s assistant- that grandpa paid their college tuition for…would not agree because they #1-didn’t know they were already written out of his will for many years! #2-didn’t even know a will existed already and they went for a money grab and had him demeaned mentally incompetent to try and gain inheritance through state law instead of will at the exact time I was moving three states away! Little did they know the will had existed for 12 YEARS AND THEY WERE EXCLUDED FROM IT IN WRITING ✍️ IN THE WILL. As soon as they found out, they abandoned him in a nursing home that I had to travel to three states away to continue seeing him!
What they did was SHAMEFUL!! And embarrassing while it was hashed out in probate prior to his death. The court was very sympathetic towards me, given how they tried to attack my integrity and all the years that I was this man’s everything! They NEVER came around. I am also 20yrs younger than these grandchildren….our mothers (grandpa’s daughters) were born twenty years apart. He was 100yrs old, I was being forced to move, and they thought they had it all figured out.
His $1.3 million that he scrimped and saved his whole life went to a nursing home for the last six years of his life. I was devastated that he was essentially taken out of my life because of money. That man was my everything, he raised me, I took care of him in his old age! We were inseparable. And the other grandkids envied it but also were too busy to give him any of their time.
And that’s why I think the system sucks!
I am sorry to hear about your loss. You sound like a very good granddaughter. Something definitely failed, but I would say its your cousins/siblings upbringing that failed the most, if they cared for the money more than him. And you got caught in the middle.
Just curious how did the nursing home take all the money? Nursing homes cost $100-120k a year which is a lot but if you have 1 million in assets generating 5-7% a year you can sustain this for decades. 2 million in s&p 500 can sustain these expenses indefinitely
Yeah, there’s a chance that can happen, but think it’s worse to do nothing because someone on reddit scared you in to thinking you might lose it all and then find yourself as a healthy 85 year old broke as shit trying to work menial jobs
Yeah, i'd rather save my whole life and die at 60 of cancer, than surviving until 85 (which is likely in my country) in poverty, having to work to survive.
THIS. It’s a worry of mine daily. Why save and invest if I won’t be able to enjoy it? BUT then what if I live a healthy life until 85 and I wasted all the money. I chose to find a balance. Enjoy my life but also put away as much as I can. Even if it’s $50 one month, it’s something g
I didn’t save enough when I was younger, I had other priorities and a pretty modest income. In my 30s I job hopped around to cash in on my experience and that allowed me to play catch up on retirement savings. Faced with that exact conundrum, how do I live today while also saving for tomorrow, I prioritized spending money on experiences instead of “stuff.” A few hundred dollars could be a weekend road trip to the mountains that we will remember forever, or it could be a small kitchen appliance we would throw away after a few years. I could die in 20 minutes or 50 years and either way my kids will have stories to tell about me.
Exactly! This is what I have started doing. I’m hesitant to buy small things that add up and don’t get used, but a trip to another state?! Definitely worth the money. Completely agree with you on that one.
Check out the Freakaconomics podcast, called The Power of Poop. There’s a gastroenterologist on there who helped put someone’s MS symptoms into remission by studying his gut biome and a FMT procedure. I hope this helps!
I appreciate the sentiment. My mom was diagnosed over 30 years ago and is in hospice care now. But back in her day she was up for everything like that! Bee sting therapy, you name it. Hopefully they find a cure some day.
.0001% chance I could die tomorrow, more than likely that I live to 80+. May as well not stress about savings, would be a real waste if I died tomorrow.
Sorry to hear that, but..... so when the more likely outcome of you not being diagnosed with a terminal disease happens, you're just going to be happy having to work till you drop dead?
Medicare isn't completely free and those living on social security checks without other investments or pensions will have a pretty difficult retirement.
Rent/taxes/utilities/groceries have outpaced the cost of living adjustments of social security.
Long version:
The reality is that there is a $200+ Medicare monthly premium per person, and a hospital inpatient deductible of around $1700 per 1-60 days benefit period and there is no limit how many times you will be charged for the deductible if you become hospitalized several times a year. Even Medicare (65) at retirement, people can still be bankrupt by medical bills. That means people are forced to go uninsured or keep working until 65.
There are options to reduce the Medicare costs if you are incredibly poor and have zero investment income (some states don't even look at investment accounts if you have any.)
With that said, a typical $2000-2300 social security check won't even cover rent, or the cost to keep anyone that's paid off, increasing cost of utilities, groceries, and other quality of life expenses. A single hospital stay will wipe out the social security check, and depending on the State, SNAP or food stamps might not help them survive, especially without housing subsidies.
But a couple with two social security checks will have more cushion for medical events, just barely.
Yeah, even for now, many elderly people are barely scrapping by. Some having to buy bulk canned cat food just to sustain themselves in between food banks and SNAP payments.
Whole not a solution, this is why I believe in nonprofits such as Meals on Wheels that directly offer some level of support.
You are correct. But we don’t suck. Our entire ideals are built on that freedom. We make more money than any other country, it’s our choice on what to do with it. We hold a large majority of millionaires in the world. It’s unfortunate, but to be truly successful in America you have to focus on solely making money or chasing the “American dream.” For the people that want this lifestyle America is the best option for wealth. But for those of us like myself who want to go to work and come home and have a family and personal life, it’s not always best,
No, you're not. To permanently emigrate to most other countries, you have to have immediate access to a large amount of money. They don't want poor people coming that can't support themselves without government assistance.
My brother in christ I want the shitload of taxes I pay to benefit me and the people I care about. You don't know me.
My healthy 6 year old's bullshit health insurance costs 400 dollars a month, and for less than half of that she could just receive medical care for free at point of service, like in a non-demon country.
I think too many people including myself because im over weight, eat take out to much and dont exercise enough are a burden on the Healthcare system because we just dont take any responsibility for our own well being. If so much physician time, money from treatment isnt wasted on people like me even though im not on meds or require anything special, our Healthcare wouldnt cost so much to begin with. That would be a huge start.
It’s not “wasted” on people like you. Humans are going to human. Expecting otherwise as part of a solution is a nonstarter. You are not the problem. We’re all in this together 🫶
Nothing is truly free. But if it's built into the structure of society, it's as good as free, because you never have to think about it. So yes, free healthcare IS effectively free (for a given value of 'free').
It's not 'free', it's public. You pay into social security and you would also pay into healthcare. I'm willing to pay into both, but people need to stop deluding themselves that there's free cake and ice cream locked away in a room "they" don't want you to have.
Because some things are porimary needs and things you literally need to live. Other stuff are luxuries and it’s not really viable to “everything free” because of scarcity.
I think that the whole point of UBI or universal incomes. It's obvioulsy more complicated that throwing money around. But the idea is that everyone gets enough money to cover their basic living expenses. So you don't have to worry about "surviving" and then you work for the "Extras".
So you want a new GPU for your PC because you like gaming? well that's why you work. But you don't work to be able to buy groceries.
The ultra rich steal WAY more from society than the poor ever will. Life on social security isn't a luxury. People typically won't aspire to that. Are there a few leeches who will abuse the system? Sure. But for the good it hrings people who truly need it, and for the relative insignificant impact these leeches have on our economy, compared to leeches like Elon Musk, social security is worth it. To have a humane society.
The rationale should be "you reap what you sow", if you did not contribute to social security, why should you benefit from it? SS should be strictly proportional to past contribution.
Yes the day social security and healthcare is given free half of america will not work. We will need heck ton of immigrants to fill the jobs. Not sure if the population is ready for it.
You’re talking about total healthcare expense which include employer contribution etc. I’m talking about what comes out of my pocket annually for my premiums and deductible vs what comes out on average via taxes for the UK & Canada which is the number people care about and it’s substantially closer except when i tear my ACL skiing i can get an MRI the next day instead of waiting until summer. Im not PRO the US healthcare system, it’s dysfunctional and broken in so many ways it can’t be fixed without tearing it all down and starting from scratch but the average American has a vastly skewed understanding of what “free” healthcare actually means.
The number is twice what any other country pays. That means each person could pay half what they are right now for the same care if we had a sane system. That means we could pay for everything with Medicare for all without changing what's currently spent by the government, collected in taxes for it, or anything. No need for your employer to pay or you to pay, besides your taxes that you already pay.
I fully agree we need massive healthcare reform but the government is so bad at things. I’d hate to see what healthcare would look like if it was run like the post office or any other of the other big bloated bureaucracies.
The government is only seems so bad at things when the Republicans are in control, that's intentional. They are trying to ruin democracy. The Democrats aren't perfect, but at least they're trying. We can make the government better.
You are assuming that she had/has the opportunity to do that. Many Americans live paycheck to paycheck. Savings, brokerage accounts, 401Ks, etc. are not an option when you are just trying to survive and keep your family fed. To be clear, I’m not saying that this is her particular situation…but in modern day US it could very well be.
This is true and I don't dispute this, but if you could just put away $100 a month towards retirement starting when you're young, that would make a huge difference later.
The assumption there is an extra $100 to put aside at a young age.
I say that as someone with savings and a 401k.
But 20 years ago when I was working and in school, the only thing I could afford was my rent, the electric bill and the gas in my car to get to work. No cable. No Internet. One of those winters, I couldn't even afford to use the heater.
And no, there was no starbucks and avocado toast. I was eating top ramen and PB&j sandwiches daily.
There was no extra money lying around to put into savings until about 10 years ago; a couple of years after I finished my master's degree.
There's almost always an option to increase your squalor and save some tiny bit more. At least until surprise fees, fines, tickets, and medical expenses take it away...
Probably not worth it to live in a refrigerator box to save money, but it is possible.
I’m now older and have a 401k and savings etc. When I graduated college, I had one credit card that was fully maxed and less than $100 in my checking account. Thankfully I had a job lined up right after school so I survived but I could literally only survive for the first few years after school.
I think you missed the joke... Which was that you can do everything right and still have medical debt ruin your well-laid-plans right when it matters most
thats a budget issue and a disciple issue. unless u can lay out all your expenses in a month, and be able to justify each expense as a required expense, then u just spend more then u should.
what is killing people is there incredible misunderstanding of credit. most people have no idea how detrimental a car loan is, or a credit card is, to them financially and they have them like it is the most normal thing in the world
A lack of personal finance literacy is a huge problem for so many Americans. Such literacy won’t necessarily make you rich, but it can help prevent a lot of harmful mistakes.
We really do just need to tax the ultra-wealthy away and turn the collective wealth into a universal basic income to rectify the entire generation that has been screwed over by financialization and market schemes.
Ahhh medical debt, my old friend. I'm saddled with thousands in medical debt from several surgeries, nevermind the lost wages from taking FMLA, the cost of hundreds of doctors appointments, useless treatments, medications, etc. I struggle now with depression which largely stems from being so badly in debt. Well, that and the chronic nerve pain. Oh and my car died recently, so that's fun. I hate how so many of us are in such bad shape, but I suppose I feel less lonely.
"Alternatively she could have squirrelled awaysaved and invested what extra money she had and gave up whatever small luxuries she could not really afford"
This is what happened to us. I didn't have a job that offered a 401k until I was in my 40s. I was finally feeling good about how much I was putting back and then my husband needed emergency surgery. Drained all we had in savings. He got better and went back to work. Just as we were finally getting caught up on missed payments due to him being out of work for nearly 6 months, he broke his back due to cancer. We have now drained everything we had for back surgery and cancer treatment and are filing bankruptcy. He is nearly 60 and I just turned 50. I have lost all hope of retirement since we will now be on one income and my one income doesn't even cover all our living expenses let alone putting anything back for savings/retirement. I just pray my health holds so I can keep working as long as possible as I don't know what we would do if I couldn't work.
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u/No_Salt_6328 5d ago
alternatively she could have squirrelled away what money she had and gave up whatever small luxuries she could afford, and then lost all the money to medical debt anyway