r/Teachers • u/mnmaverickfan • 1d ago
Teacher Support &/or Advice Really struggling with my classroom management this year.
This is my third year teaching, but first year in a new district. This school is very different from the school I taught at the last three years. This is a title 1 school with a lot more behavior concerns school wide than I am used to. There are fights or near fights in the school on the daily, which is completely new to me.
Anyway, I am really struggling with this class. They talk a lot, talk over me and others, use mean words toward each other. I feel like I don't have much control over them and it's frustrating. There are some kids that will just get up in the middle of a lesson and start shouting at each other.
I am not sure what I am looking for, but any kind of advice, tips or suggestions to manage a class like this would be appreciated.
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u/ajswdf 1d ago
It's hard to answer in a single reddit comment without seeing what's going on, but I can give some general advice.
"Soft but firm". You need to strictly enforce rules (it sounds like being quiet and respectful are areas of focus) but do so in a gentle way. Especially when it come to noise you have to be very strict in not allowing them to talk when they're not supposed to, as a little bit can build very easily. But enforce these rules in a way that can appear soft. Don't raise your voice unless you absolutely have to. In fact you should speak as softly as possible (i.e. just loud enough where everyone can hear) at all times. It's like the movie Full Metal Jacket but with Bob Ross as the drill instructor.
Explain exactly what they're supposed to be doing and why at all times. I love the question "What are you supposed to be doing right now?" Any time you need them to be doing something other than what they're doing right now explain it to them 2-3 times before they're allowed to move.
Personally I do everything I can to prevent them from leaving their seat to the point where I will do almost everything for them so they remain in their desk and keep working. Need a pencil sharpened? Give it to me and I'll sharpen it (actually I'll just take it and give them a pre-sharpened pencil since the sharpener is loud). Want a tissue? I will get one for you. Need to throw away trash? Give it to me and I'll throw it away from you (going back to the first point, if I see them wadding up a paper ball to throw I will go up to them and tell them that I will throw it away for them, not even accusing them of doing anything wrong). I emphasize to them that in class their job is to sit in their seat, facing forward, and either working on the assignment or paying attention to what I'm telling them.
Never EVER get in an argument with them. Tell them what they need to be doing and the consequence if they don't, maybe calmly explain why, but if they persist simply give consequences without saying another word. In my Title 1 school calling home is very effective. About 70% of students will immediately respond if you threaten to call home (assuming they know that you'll actually follow through). At this point in the year me simply walking to my desk to get the paper to do whatever consequence I'm threatening is often enough for them to immediately correct their behavior.
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u/mnmaverickfan 1d ago
What do you use for consequences.
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u/ajswdf 22h ago
The main ones are buddy rooms and office referrals. If things are really bad they should always be paired together. When you send a kid out make a note and at the end of the day call home for everyone on the list.
If it's extreme behavior call an administrator to get them. If you've sent them out 5+ times then write an office referral (I would have a document keeping track of discipline history to give the administrator to show that previous interventions aren't working).
I also want to second what another commenter said about strict routines that feel robotic. That's what I was saying with it feeling like Full Metal Jacket. A lot of these kids have absolutely no structure in their lives outside of school and don't know how to handle themselves in a civilized way. You aren't just teaching them your subject, but how to be a functional adult. They need to know exactly what they're supposed to be doing at all times and in any possible situation.
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u/Quirky_Weathergirl 19h ago
I agree with these rules. When I first encountered a school like this I thought it was extreme. I began subbing and gave the kids less structure. They went absolutely insane. I didn't know or understand that chaos was their norm outside of school. The rigidity of school is the only place where they had predictability and accountability. I think being more strict and not leaving even 1 minute of free time is better for the classroom and the students. The students actually crave structure but they are not in environments that offer them structure on a regular basis.
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u/mnmaverickfan 18h ago
I think routines is where im falling short. I need to retract those and get them down.
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u/ohmyitsanalien 1d ago
Here’s what I did.
Made the rules specific for each part of class. (Arrive prepared to learn and place phone in the proper spot. Be seen listening. Positive encouragement for classmates. Etc)
I printed the rules large and hung them on the wall. I then read through each one, and explained why it is important.
I would read these rules at the start of every class for a week.
THEN, as I told the students I would do, I would stop class if multiple students were breaking the class rules. Usually this was talking too loud, or distracting others during direct instruction. The most important part was, I would pull the rules up on the TV and read them from the beginning and linger on the rule that was being violated with a detailed explanation.
After about 2 weeks, I only needed to motion to the printed rules and would ask the students if I needed to read them again. The answer was always “no, thank you” and the behavior changed.
This was implemented about this time of year during my 2nd year of teaching. It allowed me to gain a firm grip of classroom management, and have not had issues of the same sort since.
I hope yours improves.
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u/Melancholybaby- 20h ago
We started in August and I made the mistake of never printing my class rules. Do you think it’s too late for that?
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u/ohmyitsanalien 19h ago
It’s not. Do it for Monday. Making the shift will be a positive improvement.
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u/sageeatsworld 1d ago
Ya idk I’m in year 8 at a title 1 and a lot of this advice is also what has worked for me in the past, but this year it does not seem to be working. Speaking softly, enforcing consequences, not engaging in arguments, etc. This year is on a whole other level. Nothing I seem to do helps. Kids are unbelievably disrespectful and I have actually reached my breaking point. Swearing, not following basic classroom rules, some violent behavior, talking back, escalations, leaving the classroom, you name it. Admin won’t even come observe, I’ve begged them to so they can see for themselves just how bad it is. Even they don’t want to deal with it I guess.
Honestly, after so many years of being blatantly disrespected by awful children and trying to remain calm, kind and patient, I can only take so much. I have nothing left to give anymore. It’s only October and I’m done. I’m officially on FMLA starting Monday. Today I spent the afternoon tearing down my classroom after a particularly bad day, cuz I don’t think I’ll be back after this leave if I can help it. When I don’t show up next week and my class is empty, I actually hope the 5 awful kids I have this year know it’s their fault lmao. I know they don’t care and it’s prob what they want anyways lol, so yay for them. Even the good kids can’t save me this year, it’s just not worth it anymore. I’m out ✌️
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u/RajatKhoware 1d ago
Third year, new district, Title 1, daily fights. That's not a classroom management problem, that's getting dropped into hard mode with no map. The one thing that actually works in high-behavior schools: routines so tight they're boring. Same entry procedure, same call-and-response, same consequence every single time, for the first 6 weeks. It feels robotic. It works because kids used to chaos finally know what's coming. Are you losing them at transitions or during the lesson itself?
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u/mnmaverickfan 22h ago
Transitions can be tough for sure. The lesson itself isn’t too bad. Independent work time and small group time are probably the worst.
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u/RajatKhoware 22h ago
That split is textbook. Transitions and independent work are where the structure breaks down, so fix those two and the whole room feels easier. One thing that works: make every transition a 2-minute timed reset with a single call-and-response cue, boring and identical every time. Are your small groups the same kids blowing up independent time too, or a different set?
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u/mnmaverickfan 15h ago
So small groups are changing a little now. Some of the lowest students will now be getting pulled out for reading intervention. I think this should help that time a lot. But yeah those students are usually the ones interrupting independent work time
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u/hgmommie 20h ago
20 year sped teacher - except for 2 yrs, I’ve always been in a Title 1 school. This is my 9th year at the same school. The years after c0vid have been challenging. However, I do teach elementary and the past 3 years as a resource teacher for k-2 so the kiddos come to me. (Not sure what grade or subject you teach)
That being said, I do enforce classroom expectations and also positive reinforcement (always have done this) We discuss at beginning of year, what they look like and how the students are rewarded. I’ve found calling them expectations is much better than rules. In addition, if a student is not doing what they should, I reward the other students. I’m pass out stickers for their charts - which they get out of the treasure box when a row is full and a larger reward when the whole chart is full. I do spend my money on it, however, to me it’s worth it for the positive behaviors.
You’ll find what works for you! Good luck!
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u/mnmaverickfan 18h ago
Our school is PBIS so we do a lot of those type of things. I think I just need to get better at enforcing expectations.
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u/AdDear962 23h ago
You don't say what grade level or subject or how many other teachers these students work with besides you.
The first thing I would do in your place is to hit the re-set button by having a full half-hour conversation about what the teacher and the students can all do together to put an end to the problems and disruptions in the room. You're not the only one who hates the fights. You could start with a 5-minute timed writing with a prompt: "What can we all do to make this learning environment better, starting today?" and you could let them write paragraphs or bullet points and turn them in immediately. All ideas welcome, no judgement, just school language and try to be reasonable, but otherwise, they can make any suggestion and you will consider it. Even something corny or impossible might have the grain of a good plan in it, so let them go. You will hear nothing but pencil scratching for a full 5-10 minutes if you convey that you are really serious about getting and using their input. You don't know -- they have some good ideas, or can just shake up your perspective. Requiring that they write, give you their input in a form that you can consult and review it now and later, makes them take some responsibility. And each and every one of them has an opinion on this.
In my area, for lower elementary, you can just call a community circle on the rug right now to discuss this.
For upper to 12, you can make it a writing assignment, a debate, the subject of the persuasive speech/writing task. I have made my new classroom management policy that was all some people could complain about instead of working on the persuasive writing/debate topic from the district-mandated curriculum more than a few times, and it always ends up with my new policy/rule getting the win. Always. And I play "devil's advocate" against me, I share out for them and clean up their grammar, give them opposing ideas. The grumbling and resentment that constitutes the "con" side never can survive open and respected discussion.
Be open to their suggestions and to trying out something on an experimental basis, and be transparent about that. Something you don't believe in, have never heard of -- as long as it does not violate school rules or district policy or your personal ethics -- just try it. Give them at least two "wins" on unconventional student suggestions, but those are on a "free trial" basis for a week or two.
When you have figured out the most important general concepts and some specific points of order for each class, have them vote on a "classroom constitution" or "room norms" or whatever they call it at your school. Throw in a few of the standard district mottos, combine some of their words with yours and the districts, and have them vote to come up with 6-8 rules in short sentences. Get a big poster paper, like for "anchor charts" & such, plan out the graphics generally, and then hand it over to them to make it with a yardstick, a big stencil, colored pencils. Everybody votes and everybody has a hand in creating the poster, bring them up in pairs or 3s during any independent, silent worlk, for 10 mins at a time. Polish it up to make it pop when they are done.
Have everyone copy it by hand in their notebooks/binders/reading journals.
You can point to the rules when people are violating them. If your school culture permits, you could assign sentences -- copying the rule 10x that the student is violating. That's part of a whole other ritual, but it's a tool that the group voting on the constitution and creation of the "public notice" or poster can support.
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u/mnmaverickfan 20h ago
3rd grade
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u/AdDear962 14h ago edited 14h ago
For Grade 3, we had a debate on my new lunch recess policy, which was that I had to get them to lunch on time, and if I had start lining them up early because they were treating lining up and transitions as a time to fool around, I was going to time it and deduct a few minutes from lunch recess, because they already took their recess for up to 5 minutes before they got to lunch. Seriously, I had been yelled at by the cafeteria staff, and the lead had not yet forgiven me, so I had to start lining up for lunch 5 minutes before it should have been necessary. I would have given them an extra 5 on the backend if we had ever arrived early, but that ultimately happened like twice. The first week some of them would not stop grumbling about how unfair it was to have to leave the courtyard before the other classes -- and it was, truly, 1-5 minutes, I have a timer on my wristwatch, and I was very clear communicating this. So we had some district-mandated Scholastic essay on whether or not children should be paid to go to school (which, what the what anyways?), and hardly anyone would read it or prepare their persuasive speech/writing to debate it, so I chucked it and said we'll debate the classroom policy that is making it impossible for a lot of us to focus on this thing. I told them 5 minutes to write, but I didn't stop them until I heard the heavenly sound of scratching pencils in silence mostly stop, around 10 minutes. I made a list of pros and cons on the board, I even told them how to argue I was unfair and read anybody's for them, cleaning up the grammar and syntax. It turned out to be more of a voluntary share-out than a "debate," but it was definitely non-fictional persuasive speech/writing. I ended up making the argument against me, because nobody wanted to. And the ones in support of me included one kid who could not read or write, the one who had a Grade 1 literacy level, the only two with above grade-level literacy scores. They very respectfully told their classmates that we have to do what the teacher says because the teacher wants us to learn and that is what we are here for and the teacher lets us have fun, too, so we have to be fair and listen to the teacher's directions. Their sense of justice is very acute in Grade 3, and that kind of exercise brings out the courage in the quieter voices that aren't always heard above the din of disruption.
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u/thecooliestone 16h ago
The kids are generally attention starved, and used to failure. Ironically this is who PBIS is designed to work for and the schools most likely to use it wrong. The important thing is to remember that they are still normal kids. They want boundaries and positive regard, even if they don't admit it. Lots of positive praise, especially to their folks. A lot of them have never had a teacher say something nice to their families and they really want it, even if they don't admit it. Go to games. Start a club. It's unfortunate but you have to prove you're invested outside of contract for them to be on your side.
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u/mnmaverickfan 15h ago
Our school uses PBIS and i think it works to some extent. I just don’t have time outside my contract hours to do things like that.
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u/Red-Phoenix-Rising 16h ago
24 year vet here, 10 schools, only 2 Non Title 1 schools, 8 Title 1. Yes I have moved around, but by my own will. When I’m ready to go, I leave. I’m loyal to the profession, not school.
8 schools I’ve taught in were Title 1. 6 of my years were teaching third grade. 15 in 5th (this year is 15), 3 in 4th. I’m not sure what type of personality you have, but I’ve always had a stern demeanor with kids. You have to say what you mean and mean what you say. Being firm with kids gains their respect for you; if they do not respect you, they will feel free to do the things they are doing to you right now.
My first 3 years were teaching third grade in a title 1 school and those kids needed the most structure, boundaries, and nonnegotiable expectations.
Do you have a mentor teacher or a teacher with experience with that population to guide you? It was easy for me fortunately because I grew up with the culture when I taught there.
I’m in one of the “better” schools and it’s worse because the entitlement from both students and parents is ridiculous to the point where after this year I’m going back to Title 1.
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u/mnmaverickfan 15h ago
My demeanor is not very stern. I think being firm and like you said “saying what I mean and mean what I say” are things that I need to work on. There is another third grade teacher here that’s been there a little while that I’m talking with.
I jusr need to work on those routines and expectations
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u/Just_meme01 9h ago
If you can win over the roughest kid, the rest will follow. What age group? Kids love to help. Find ways to give them a job. Ask them to help you whenever possible and praise them for a job well done.
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u/Mysterious-Mind-1705 1d ago
Best advice, leave teaching. It will wear you down. Not worth the measly pay.
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u/mnmaverickfan 17h ago
I’m actually in a state and district that pays teachers pretty well so that helps a lot.
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u/kb1127 1d ago
This years group of kids is another level of disrespectful and rude. I teach 6th grade. I am a very well liked and respected teacher for my students. I was voted favorite teacher by the students 2 years in a row. I cannot break through to my kids this year. I even had a former student tell me that one of my current students told her and a group of my former students that they hate me and I was their least favorite teacher. She then told me that they all laughed at that student and asked what is wrong with them. That’s how I know it’s bad.