r/Testosterone • u/[deleted] • Nov 25 '20
Lowering my dose in half= huge improvement
i kept thinking i had to increase it to 200 300 400 500
i thought 200 is the bare minimum and most guys run 250-400
but then i cut it down to 140 and boom had morning wood the first time in months.
libido coming back
mood improving, less brainfog
nipples no longer sore
20
u/TheHogan77 Nov 25 '20 edited Nov 25 '20
Sounds like your E2 was way too high
Edit.
If a lower dose is working better for you that’a great!
2
Nov 25 '20
yeah if i go to a higher dose again ill make sure to add in enough masteron
-6
u/macpad095 Nov 25 '20
lol wrong sub bro
12
u/mairomaster Nov 25 '20
I don't particularly like such remarks to be honest. If Masteron would help him to feel better and he doesn't get side effects, what is the problem to add it as a compound? So many people add Deca to their protocols for joint pain for example, including me. Yes, Masteron might not be that common as an addition to TRT, but it's pretty good drug in general for controlling E2 side effects as long as you don't have DHT problems.
I don't think /r/steroids would be a better sub necessarily as you are suggesting - people there mainly focus on heavy steroid use for bodybuilding purposes mostly. The guy is obviously on a TRT.
5
Nov 25 '20
This. Proviron, Boldenone, Masteron and Primobolan are all very mild steroids with anti estrogenic effects. Boldenone and Primo also exhibit collagen benefits. So they could be used, not to mention it could be a way to get extra androgens without side effects
2
u/pushtillIbreak Nov 25 '20
Remove Boldenone from that list. There is a mounting evidence that it is quite toxic to the kidneys. I would stay the hell away from it for that reason alone.
1
u/OtonPaiva Nov 25 '20
Also, boldenone is being linked to various mental ilnesses as depression and anxiety. Because of the interaction with GABA receptors on the brain. I myself had some pretty bad mental issues with Bold. Changed to Mast and after 2 weeks I am feeling a tad better. But expect to get even better, as Bold takes a loooooong time to be completly out of your system.
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u/mairomaster Nov 25 '20
I personally don't like it because Boldenone is probably the number 1 compound increasing your hematocrit the most.
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u/SnooCakes9600 Nov 25 '20
And what is wrong with running an A.I.? I run 200MG per week and 1/2 MG of Arimidex every 3 days and my E2 stays in check with no issues.
2
Nov 25 '20
Side effects of ai can be worse than steroids. Why add another layer of stress on top of your body if not needed
2
u/SnooCakes9600 Nov 26 '20
"CAN BE" is true, but if you get it dialed in right in can be a godsend. It is not the A.I. that is the culprit to bad side effects, it is crashing your E2 levels that is. My advice would be go light on the A.I. 1/4 MG of Arimidex for every 100MG of Test isn't gonna crash your estrogen and will probably put it in a healthy high/ normal range.
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u/93Tutbota Nov 25 '20
adding another compound to to combat "sides" on a mild dose , yes 500mg/week is low if you are the type of person stacking masteron into a protocol you need to rethink your program. A mild IA or even spreading out your dose througout the week to elimiate spikes would be a way better idea.
1
u/anonlymouse Nov 25 '20
There's a general aversion to taking medications that cause side effects that require you to take another medication. It's something that can definitely get out of hand. If people can get the benefits they need without side effects simply by lowering the dose, they'll often be a lot happier.
1
u/93Tutbota Nov 25 '20
why are you adding in masteron? that is a horrible idea.
1
Nov 25 '20
controls estrogen, decent anabolic, feels good.
1
u/93Tutbota Nov 26 '20
Staking compounds just because "they feel good" when they greatly increase the oxiditive load on the body is insane. There's reasons compound like masteron and premo are only used pre-contest in bodybuilding and for very short durations. These are not 'cruising' compounds.
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u/coinplz Nov 25 '20
200 isn’t bare minimum it’s basically the maximum. 140 to 160 is probably average.
10
u/Patient_Specialist_8 Nov 25 '20
It's def an estrogen thing ... the less test is not spiking the estrogen. I'm sorry but estrogen too high is legit the worst. Finding a rythym on trt is the trickiest part
4
Nov 25 '20
yeah i think the estrogen was making me depressed and sad. i feel happier now.
1
u/SnooCakes9600 Nov 25 '20
At 140MG are you taking your shot once per week or are you spreading it out like 2 to 3 times per week? Thanks?
1
u/sevenquarks Nov 25 '20
At 140MG are you taking your shot once per week or are you spreading it out like 2 to 3 times per week? Thanks?
He is taking test prop 20 mg ED from what I gather.
1
Nov 25 '20
this
1
u/93Tutbota Nov 25 '20
this is the problem. Test prop is is acting way to fast, and by the time that you strip the ester you are getting 16mg/day. that 112mg week, but in reality you are getting 1/4 of that as a stable range in syrum. Your levels were way off, any aromitization was spiking your estrogen. thats why you felt like crap. You need a longer ester or higher daily dose.
1
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u/bobbynomates Nov 25 '20
I had the same experience mate, I dropped to 125mg a week and feel remarkably more balanced. Had a few episodes of depression from what I assume was high e2 when my protocol was 125 every 5 days
1
8
u/AkumaReal Nov 25 '20
Its cause of estrogen. Some idiots in this community literally believes the more estrogen the better, they are insane.
3
u/Testosteronerex66 Nov 25 '20
estrogen destroyed my trt experience for more than a year
3
u/jko1701284 Nov 25 '20
Yeah, your problem was dose too high. AI is a bandaid.
2
u/Testosteronerex66 Nov 25 '20
no AI is great
1
u/jko1701284 Nov 25 '20
How tall are you and how much do you weigh? What is your body fat percentage? How often do you workout?
1
u/Testosteronerex66 Nov 25 '20
185cm 73kg 11-13% bodyfat, 3 times a week.
1
u/jko1701284 Nov 25 '20
How long have you been taking the AI? If it’s only been a couple weeks, please do make an update post after a month or two.
This is interesting because it really seems like the vast majority of men feel better without AI.
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u/BigGryph Nov 25 '20
Same. I’m doing 24mg EOD and I’m in the sweet spot.
1
u/Cockroach-Jones Nov 25 '20
What does 24mg EOD put your numbers at?
2
u/BigGryph Nov 29 '20
655 total ng/dl 151.3 free test pg/ml
1
u/Cockroach-Jones Nov 29 '20
Just asking because I’ve experimented with raising my dose but not with dropping it down to something like that. So by in the “sweet spot” I’m assuming libido, penis sensitivity, energy, mood, body composition all on point?
3
u/BigGryph Nov 29 '20
Libido is through the roof, mood is stable, strength is best it’s been. Body composition I’m not seeing a significant fat burn, but I’m not dieting like I should either (still more beer than I should have + holiday eating). Only real negative besides PIP is my skin seems to be more oily.
4
u/duece12345 Nov 25 '20
I feel the best at 100mg/week
1
u/jko1701284 Nov 25 '20
Same! At 150 my free T was double the upper end of range. Will be interesting to see where it’s at with 100mg and no HCG in a couple weeks.
2
u/PreftigeWhore Nov 25 '20
Did you get bloodwork done to know what your levels were at first vs after finding your sweet spot?
1
3
u/LowTHalp Nov 25 '20
500mg test. Where did you get that from?
4
u/FitPool8 Nov 25 '20
He mentioned masteron in another comment this guys got the wrong forum
7
u/Notsurebutok1 Nov 25 '20
Not really. Masteron is about the same as Proviron. Reduces Estrogen and SHBG.
Might not be perscribed but that doesn't mean it's evil.
If he mentions tren... Different story.
4
u/mairomaster Nov 25 '20
Exactly.
7
u/Notsurebutok1 Nov 25 '20
I like how people talk about thinhlgags that they haven't looked into.
"Masteron belongs in r/steroids"
I bet if they looked at it as "should I take a cancer drug or Masteron to control estrogen"
I bet more would opt for the second Androgen in a protocol.
4
u/mairomaster Nov 25 '20
For sure. I mean Masteron is not guaranteed to work better for everyone, it has it's own potential side effects, etc. but I definitely think it's good to try it and see how it will work for you, instead of going for a monster dose of Anastrozole.
It is just being infamous for being a steroid and that's why people are hating by default. And unlike AI, it doesn't kill your E2, just prevents the side effects + gives you some nice additional anabolic effects.
So yeah, not a bad idea for the people to educate themselves first instead of straight coming out with the stupid judgemental comments.
2
u/Notsurebutok1 Nov 25 '20
I wanna try Primo once as it's more or less along the same lines. Just a bit cleaner maybe better HDL/LDL.
I'm still pretty new. But I'm not opposed to trying different things to see what works best. I've still yet to try Test Propionate. I hear the more fluctuations in a short ester dosed daily is good for libido. I was a walking hardon when I first started TRT so... Maybe... And I already do daily injections so.. Worth a shot😂
1
u/anonlymouse Nov 25 '20
The main issue with Primo is if you're in the US, risk of getting fake Primo is really high. Seems to be why it's talked about a lot but I don't hear about it being used that much.
2
u/Notsurebutok1 Nov 25 '20
Oddly enough I think I have that covered. Bayer asprin,Bayer Proviron, and next up Bayer Primo. The problem for me is that I'm about to go on vacation so spending $14 Per ml would probably piss off the old lady. And hard to swallow after spending 20ish for 10ml vials of Test. But.. First thing after we get back from St. Thomas
2
u/anonlymouse Nov 25 '20
You can probably find a balance between a test base that doesn't have negative sides and then enhancing it with primo. (Or ditch the proviron when you're doing primo).
1
u/Hambone429 Nov 25 '20
How do I find Primo?
2
u/anonlymouse Nov 25 '20
That depends on where you live, I'd first look to see if it's scheduled and if I can get in on prescription, and if I can, I have to go through a doctor, and if I can't I can order it from a foreign pharmacy (it's legal to import unscheduled drugs for personal use here).
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1
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u/sevenquarks Nov 25 '20
Not really. Both are similar but not exactly the same. I feel good on masteron but not proviron.
1
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u/that_old_white_guy Nov 25 '20
My sweetspot is 220mg a week - 110 Tuesdays & Fridays. But I started out at a super low 167...barely alive. LOL
I'm in the high 700's, low 800's on 220mg a week. 250 a week puts me in the 1000's and doesn't do a damn thing.
-4
u/mairomaster Nov 25 '20
But do you have a study to back that up?
12
u/that_old_white_guy Nov 25 '20
Of course. I have a non-blinded, single participant, multi-element study with bi-weekly controls, physician monitored compliance & bi-monthly lab testing.
Results show a significant improvement in the typical signs & symptoms of the study participant: increased muscle mass & decreased fat distribution; increased non-interrupted sleep patterns; decreased insulin dependence and lower A1c; increased concentration & work completion; decrease in mid-day fatigue; increase in frequency & confidence of sexual activity; increase of aggression in sporting activities.
Multiple lab testing shows a range of blood level testosterone from mid-700's on 200mg a week, up t0 1080 on 250mg a week, then titrated to 220mg a week to obtain a desired level in the low 800's.
Study participant has converted 17 pounds of fat to muscle, increased weekly cycling from zero to 300 miles, dropped A1c from 8 to 6, lowered blood pressure Stage 1 hypertension to normal, dropped daily average blood glucose to 107, and is banging his fiancé twice a week with average sustained penile volume increasing by 22%.
3
u/pushtillIbreak Nov 25 '20
Nit picking but fat doesn't convert to muscle. I would assume subject burned 17 pounds of fat due to increased metabolism, exercise and diet, while added 17lbs of muscle due to increased nitrogen retention and muscle synthesis from a combination of exercise, diet and activation of androgen receptors in skeletal muscle.
0
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u/Cockroach-Jones Nov 25 '20
How do you feel on 250?
2
u/that_old_white_guy Nov 25 '20
Feelings didn't change much. All of the typical improvements at 200 continued at 250, but that level shot me into the 'High" level on blood tests. No point in wasting the test cyp for no increase in symptom relief or gain in other responses.
2
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u/subsonic68 Nov 25 '20 edited Nov 25 '20
I tried a few different doses, from 150 up to almost 250, and different schedules such as ED, EOD, 2x/week. I found that dropping my dose to 160 and splitting 2x per week on Sunday morning and Wednesday evening gave me the highest T levels where I felt my best and my highest libido, while minimizing estrogen and all other side effects. At this level my wife thinks I'm a beast in the bedroom but I don't get much acne and I'm not moody/angry. Any higher levels for an extended period and I get angry, oily skin and acne, and weaker erections. More frequent dosing was just meh and my libido dropped. I'm definitely riding the high end of TRT blood levels for both Total and Free T but each time my labs look good (Including a Comprehensive Metabolic Panel) so I'll stay right where I am as long as I can.
1
Nov 25 '20
Why would this be? I started on 160 mg and week 1-3 I felt fantastic but week 4-6 which I’m on week 6 now I feel kinda like crap again, but I have full labs next week so they’ll be able to see what’s going on but I was suspected they need to increase the dose but maybe it’s the opposite
4
Nov 25 '20
its too much estrogen dude. go down to 140-150. i thought the same thing that i had to keep increasing.
1
Nov 25 '20
Wow that makes sense ,I’m still new to this, they said it’s full labs next week I’ll make sure estrogen is included too, ty!
1
Nov 25 '20
Are you doing in 1x a week? Or eod?
1
Nov 25 '20
i do daily propionate injections
1
u/itsWildOutHere Nov 25 '20
Nice to know. Props not doing it for me now but I'm only at 87.5mg a week (daily injection of 12.5mg).
Have you tried that low before? Mid December I hope to raise it to 20mg dailies.
1
u/93Tutbota Nov 25 '20
Im surprised at how low the doses are that people can tolerate without an AI and even with an AI.
1
u/EricandtheSox11 Nov 25 '20
You see I have had to increase my dose from the 100mg a week that my Doctor initially put me on to 200mg a week that I now am on. With serious improvement to my libido and overall performance.
1
u/RichJack87 Nov 26 '20
I’m going to run 180mg for the next year to make the gains then drop to 140
1
Nov 26 '20
that wont be much gains. i recommend something like 350.
1
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u/aporter0131 Nov 25 '20
Awesome good to know. I'm on 120 and libido had improved tremendously