(Hated Meta Trope) Plot Holes that are not Plot Holes. There is an explanation if you bother to watch the movie

[u/KingZaneTheStrange]

"Plot Hole": Why didn't Thanos just make the universe bigger to end overpopulation!

Explanation: Thanos wants to kill half the population to end overpopulation right? If he created more resources, the universe would just become overpopulated all over again. He explains this in his villain monolog. There are parts of his plan that make no sense (he's called the Mad Titan for a reason), but this one is actually explained. His plan was also to punish people for their greed, and making more food would not be much of a punishment. He also has a savior complex which makes him double down on his plan to prove he's right

"Plot Hole": Why wasn't the Death Star's exhaust port fortified!

Explanation: It fucking WAS. They had laser cannons surrounding the port because the Empire knew it was a weak point. The imperial general saw the rebels and chose to do nothing about it. He says "I think you overestimate their chances". Luke needed help from Han Solo, the disembodied voice of Ben and the Force in order to get the torpedoes into that tiny hole. Han even says that the shot was "one in a million".

[u/stnick6]

Another Star Wars one, why doesn’t anyone turn off their lightsabers. Allegedly it’s canon that the Jedi think it’s dishonorable and the sith think it’s cowardly but it would never have worked. Force users move really fast and enhanced reaction time so if you turn off your lightsaber, they’ll just stab you.

[u/Ao_Kiseki → u/stnick6]

Force users have limited precognition. There's never a scenario where you'd do this because there's a good chance the other guy would know and now you can't just block in response to whatever he does. Light sabers do take a bit to power on all the way.

[u/jezebellebelle → u/Ao_Kiseki]

I think how fast they power on depends on the user activating it. In ANH when Ben first gives him the saber, Luke is just messing around with it, and it turns on instantly, probably because he doesn't know how the activation works(and also has no concept of safety, please stop waving that thing around like a feather duster).

I think them being turned on slowly is a deliberate choice by the wielder, like when Ben meets Vader on the Death Star. He knows Vader wants a fight, and it's probably a fight Ben knew was coming, but it's not a fight he's looking forwards to.

I feel it gives an impression of both resignation and acceptance. He's igniting his saber for the last time, so he's taking his time.

[u/RednocNivert → u/jezebellebelle]

“Luke, this was your father’s lightsaber. He murdered 30 children with it. Please stop pointing directly at your face”

[u/IceFire909 → u/RednocNivert]

"you're gonna make it 31 if you keep looking down the barrel"

[u/Cent1234 → u/jezebellebelle]

Yeah, it's a callback to samurai movies, where sometimes, you want the iaido style rapid draw, and sometimes you do the slow, controlled, purposeful draw broken up into six separate steps, like you see Atsu do in Ghost of Yotei when you go into a one-on-one duel.

[u/JesusSavesForHalf → u/jezebellebelle]

The Youngling Slayer 2000 is always hot and ready to go

[u/jezebellebelle → u/JesusSavesForHalf]

Oh my god I've never considered that. Shit.

[u/Elihzap → u/Ao_Kiseki]

So, technically doable with two light sabers?

[u/M-pandimate → u/Elihzap]

Technically yes, but if you have two sabers and use one to bind enemy's single saber then you can just use another one to stab/cut him, no need to waste time for deactivation.

[u/hey_there_delilahh → u/M-pandimate]

Or maybe use a pistol like Grievous did. Much faster to pull a trigger and shoot multiple lasers point blank than waste time with a deactivated laser sword. Same basic concept it feels like

[u/M-pandimate → u/hey_there_delilahh]

Blaster stance from Jedi: Survivor is my favourite. I don't get why not a single jedi used blaster set to stun, it's way safer than laser sword.

Shooting force user with blaster is risky, slug thrower is the way

[u/NadeshikoEatingPasta → u/Ao_Kiseki]

How does that not also apply to like, normal swings and movements in a fight?

[u/Ao_Kiseki → u/NadeshikoEatingPasta]

It does. When both people have limited sight into the future you can't surprise each other, so it becomes a contest of skill. This trick relies on surprising the other person, which you can't do if they have precognition.

[u/Substantial-Sea-3672 → u/stnick6]

This is just from people who have no clue how a sword fight works.

You block and attack because it’s about to hit you, not because “it’s what you do”.

So if you were in a situation where you could simply turn on off your lightsaber, just don’t block and then stab them.

[u/MourningWallaby → u/Substantial-Sea-3672]

You're also not holding each other in that position, pushing your weight into your opponent's sword. you fight "in the bind" where you wind, disengage, zwer, hang, do anything BUT just stay there while the camera looks at the expensive actors' faces. there's no time to turn it off because by the time you do your oponent's blade is somewhere else.

[u/Reflection-Alarming → u/MourningWallaby]

It works flawlessly if you are significantly better physically than your opponent ( or in this context able to buff your own stats much higher with the force), but that brings us back to the deceitful and cowardly aspects that make it unused in universe in the first place.

[u/MourningWallaby → u/Reflection-Alarming]

No, it really doesn't. sure a really strong person can cleave their sword through a sword being blocked. but you're also never "blocking" like that in the real world. Swordfighting is a mental game of leverage and body mechanics, I am constantly getting defeated by people smaller than me because they are smarter.

[u/Reflection-Alarming → u/MourningWallaby]

I know how sword fighting works, if Im so much faster than you that I can Dodge your block that is also a counterattack ( so any block from anybody who knows what they're doing) while phasing my laser sword through yours, I'm gonna win. But at that point I'm almost certainly so much faster than you that you're struggling to keep track of me with your naked eye and have been sandbagging up till that point

[u/Buckenheimer → u/Substantial-Sea-3672]

Bruh, you swing at your opponent, they raise their saber to block it, you turn yours off mid swing passing by their blocking blade, then turn it back on as it nears them.

[u/peppersge → u/Buckenheimer]

A trained opponent doesn’t raise their blade to block. Instead they swing their blade towards you along the same path so that their block is also a counter attack.

The biggest mistake behind the assumptions for the style is that people will be passively blocking. Real fights involve counterattacks and using their offense as a defense.

[u/Vayalond → u/Buckenheimer]

You definitely don't know how a sword fight work. You don't raise your blade just to block and do nothing, you raise in a way to close the line AND present a threat at the same time or stab if the opening is here. Also you don't stay static in the whole interaction, you move to avoid the potential reaction of your opponent or negate it: you advance if they recoil to keep pressure (especially if there is a length difference).

Also are least where I train when we do some 1 handed sword without offhand weapons we often close the gap to take control of the arm of the other rather than waiting for them to be a threat

[u/BigCaregiver7285 → u/Vayalond]

Are these foam swords

[u/Vayalond → u/BigCaregiver7285]

Either synthetic trainers or rarely blunt steel we use more for exercises or training because we don't have enough protection for full sparring with them

[u/TheTrueMarkNutt → u/stnick6]

Yeah that whole technique is stupid, and that diagram suggest that you press your whole body weight into a sword bind

No, no you don't lmao

[u/def-not-bot → u/TheTrueMarkNutt]

The trope of pressing swords into each other with all your might is really dumb in general.  You are holding a long lever by the wrong end to have any leverage from the handle alone.  That line/plane of attack is closed.  Either stick your other hand on the blade or disengage.  If you try to force your way through, a skilled opponent will angle his blade so yours gets trapped on the hilt and riposte.

[u/Viper-in-the-Dark → u/def-not-bot]

In fairness, it makes more sense in Star Wars than IRL because canonically the magnetic fields of the lightsaber interact and lock occasionally.

[u/Contextanaut → u/Viper-in-the-Dark]

Also, because sticking your hand on the lightsaber blade is not a great idea.

[u/Viper-in-the-Dark → u/[deleted]]

Not a Star Wars fan, a Versus Battles otaku. It was a fact I used to show Pyrrah could beat Ahsoka in one argument.

[u/ViriditasBiologia → u/[deleted]]

Fans in the franchise are excited to talk about that franchise shocker. Just ignore it. Chud.

[u/R_Similacrumb → u/def-not-bot]

That's what I was gonna say.

[u/def-not-bot → u/R_Similacrumb]

Another fencer, by chance? Or perhaps a HEMA enthusiast? (Do they call themselves fencers?)

[u/R_Similacrumb → u/def-not-bot]

No, it was an insecurity driven joke. I'm an ignoramus.

I was impressed by the knowledge. My remark was more akin to watching a gymnast perform a perfect tumbling routine then I say: "I can do that. I just don't want to."

Honestly, at this point, I don't even know what this thread is about. But if had to be in a sword fight I'd just throw it and run.

[u/No-Promotion-1921 → u/def-not-bot]

True, but this is also a heated blade with weight, and it WILL burn you if it gets close enough. That's unlike swords and armor.

That and the interlock mentioned above.

[u/WorkerPrestigious960 → u/def-not-bot]

Yes as someone who has practiced fencing, Star Wars often completely misunderstands how sword fights work because to most people it’s cooler to see two people bashing swords into each other than two people actually trying to stab or slice each other. The prequel fights are much better choreographed, but most fights in Star Wars often are just two people smashing their blades into each other’s blades because good choreography is expensive and time-consuming

[u/MjrLeeStoned → u/def-not-bot]

Swords are not levers, they work on momentum, like a baseball bat, slicing like a scalpel, and stabbing like... anything that stabs. Using a sword to push against someone will just get you sliced or stabbed by someone who knows how to use a sword properly.

[u/def-not-bot → u/MjrLeeStoned]

I fenced epee for over a decade and taught people to fence at an engineering school.  I've also done a bit of HEMA rapier.

Swords are levers.

[u/ElkBusiness8446 → u/TheTrueMarkNutt]

Lightsabers are specifically designed so you don't have to put ANY weight into a strike lol.

[u/sonerec725 → u/TheTrueMarkNutt]

Honestly I could actually see this "technique" being created specifically to just quickly deal with inexperienced saber users who would do stupid mistakes like putting their whole weight into a swing lol. Maybe even invented by an inexperienced jedi or sith who was a little more clever than their peers during a sparing match or something

[u/Luckyguy456gaming → u/TheTrueMarkNutt]

Apparently its a real technique in star wars. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Tr%C3%A0kata

[u/Papergeist → u/Luckyguy456gaming]

I appreciate that it appears to occupy the same space as flying kicks and whatnot - rarely used, and dangerous to try relying on, but potentially useful to attack from an unexpected angle.

But this is about fan interpretation, specifically the idea that you'd use it all the time to perfect effect. While, like a flying kick, you would get absolutely bodied if you tried that.

[u/FormalComfortable497 → u/Luckyguy456gaming]

Who writes these wiki entries? I'm assuming it's not just fans since they have the name of the technique.

[u/Luckyguy456gaming → u/FormalComfortable497]

Registered fans. It was created, then they needed help ofc so they started doing some test i guess? now there is a few thousand registered users who update it.

[u/Erick_Brimstone → u/TheTrueMarkNutt]

Also turning off lightsaber makes you vulnerable for a few seconds. That could be fatal.

[u/Chijinda → u/TheTrueMarkNutt]

In real life swordsmanship, you're right, but Star Wars characters absolutely put their whole body weights into binds pretty frequently. There's even an entire lightsaber form that's all about putting your full weight behind every strike to try and brute force your way through your opponent's defenses.

[u/Advanced_Question196 → u/TheTrueMarkNutt]

Still, the point of swinging swords (and really anything) is that you aim behind the person as part of the follow-through. You definitely could develop an art that analyzes when it happens and takes advantage of it. That turning-off-your-lightsaber move was literally the only good thing to come out of The Acolyte

[u/TheRevanReborn → u/TheTrueMarkNutt]

Well… you kind of should. Just not in the way depicted here. The European martial arts traditions of the late Middle Ages (from I.33 to Lichtenauer and Meyer, etc.) point towards the use of shifting body weight at the correct time and distance with correct posture to both fortify against strikes (because a weak parry will get blown through) and also to use leverage to your advantage. If you close off the line of attack and lock out the opponent entirely by using the power of body weight (which is always stronger than arms alone), you now have time to safely riposte while controlling the opponent’s weapon. Mechanical advantage through an overbind, for example. If the opponent still manages a parry of your riposte, chances are the opponent is behind in time, has lost the initiative, and will get locked out again after you’ve stolen time to press forward, and it’s increasingly unlikely the opponent will ever catch up without a really good disengage.

Whereas if you come off the line immediately to attack another, it becomes a game of speed. Speed is a stupid game to play, because either one person is just faster, or more likely people tend to think it’s always “their turn” to attack, so then you both double-hit and kill each other.

[u/EliteLevelJobber → u/TheTrueMarkNutt]

I always thought the explanation should be that when fighting a force user they are always trying to turn off you lightsabre with the force and you're are trying to do the same to them. You both have to dedicate a bit of your power to keeping the switch in the on position. You could try to turn it off for a quick advantage but you opponent will now be trying to keep the switch in the off position and you'd have to over power them just to get the lightsabre back on.

[u/DianaBrace842 → u/TheTrueMarkNutt]

Exactly dontt

[u/Silver_Number973 → u/TheTrueMarkNutt]

and the swing goes at the target, so when one sword disappears the other hits its target

[u/Oshwaflz1 → u/TheTrueMarkNutt]

especially not with a weapon that needs no effort to cut with...

[u/sikora2009 → u/stnick6]

I hate the canon explanation. "You don't turn off your lightsaber because enemy is aiming at you, not your weapon. If you turn it off, they slice you in half" should be the only explanation needed.

[u/colibri01 → u/stnick6]

You mean making your sword disappear isnt a viable straitagy?

[u/you_lost_it_all → u/stnick6]

Dont light sabres actually have an ignition time, in the ot, they turn on kind of slow, I always thought thats why.

[u/MeasureDoEventThing → u/stnick6]

If you turn off you light saber, then their light saber is going to hit you. If you can move your body out of the way fast enough to not get hit, then you could just move your light saber out of the way too rather than turning it off. One has to ask whether this tactic is used in real-world fencing, and if not, why not.

[u/thegabeguy → u/MeasureDoEventThing]

I agree with your reasoning, but the last statement makes no sense. It’s not used in real-life fencing because you can’t turn a sword off in real life, not because it’s impractical

[u/tortilla_mia → u/thegabeguy]

You can't turn off a sword but you could imagine what might happen if you were to decide "I don't want to block this attack" or "I am going to stop resisting" if you're in a bind or even "I will simply let go of my sword "

[u/Matterhock → u/tortilla_mia]

The first two are called voiding or yielding a bind. Those are real sword techniques but the are definitely not the same as turning off the lightsaber.

[u/Matterhock → u/thegabeguy]

I've seen someone make the argument that turning on an off the lightsabers takes time. Significantly more time than a regular yield or void does. 

So deactivating your lightsaber would be closer to full on sheathing in the middle of a fight. And no that was not something historically done, not even in traditional Japanese swordfighting.

[u/MeasureDoEventThing → u/thegabeguy]

I can see how if you read only my last sentence, it would not make sense to you. The previous two sentences explained how this tactic used in isolation would be counterproductive, and the tactics needed to accompany it would be ones that, if practical in fighting with light sabers, would be practical in normal fencing.

[u/WhitePassYukon_190 → u/stnick6]

I'm pretty sure well trained force users actually have some level of precognition, so even worse if they know you're going to do it ahead of time lol

[u/PanApple6000 → u/WhitePassYukon_190]

One minute faster than me..

But yeah, most experienced force users have some kind of precog, so this is only useful against non-force users, who are either A. Weak enough that using this isn't even necessary, or B. Skilled enough to know putting your full weight into a swing is a terrible idea (following the image)

[u/Luckyguy456gaming → u/stnick6]

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Tr%C3%A0kata apparently its real!

[u/SirAquila → u/Luckyguy456gaming]

Yup, and it is stupid as hell.

If it works you are already so much more skilled then the opponent that you where already winning.

In a swordfight the worst thing you can do is not have your blade, because that means your enemy can just stab you.

[u/Luckyguy456gaming → u/SirAquila]

Didn't say it was good. Just thought it was funny/interesting it exists

[u/BeautyDuwang → u/stnick6]

Except it is canonically a thing and does work

[u/stnick6 → u/BeautyDuwang]

Yeah that’s the problem. Like with the Death Star weakness being intentional, it wasn’t a plot hole until they tried to fix it and it became one

[u/LX575-EEE → u/stnick6]

Rouge One fixed the fact that 2 proton torpedoes into the main reactor could blow up a moon-sized space station. The trap that Galen Erso put in the Death Star was in the reactor module specifically, allowing any blast to it to cripple and destroy the entire station. The ray-shielded reactor port was not apart of the trap Erso set up. That’s why they needed the Death Star plans, to find a viable way to strike the main reactor

[u/Dragonkingofthestars → u/stnick6]

That doesn't make sense though, ok force users move really fast and have fast reactions, that goes both ways. So if my saber cycles fast enough, yah I should be able to get around the block. Not like that, that diagrams shouldn't work but is a demonstration of concept

[u/stnick6 → u/Dragonkingofthestars]

>If my saver cycles fast enough

That. Thats the problem

[u/Dragonkingofthestars → u/stnick6]

But a solvable one

[u/stnick6 → u/Dragonkingofthestars]

Not really

[u/Dragonkingofthestars → u/stnick6]

Yah it's just a technical problem, how do I get my light saber to go from an on to off to on again state as fast as possible. That's not a skill issue, that an engineering puzzle

[u/stnick6 → u/Dragonkingofthestars]

It is as fast as possible, that’s the point

[u/Dragonkingofthestars → u/stnick6]

I don't believe it. The Jedi are/we're a calcified Ridgid institution. I don't think they would even consider doing R and D on lightsabers

[u/Crismus → u/Dragonkingofthestars]

By the time of Episode 1 lightsabers are solved tech. It looks like laser light but is a contained plasma system. 

Previous versions are depicted in old old republic era needed to be recharged and used to have a power cord to put it in. 

Power cell, crystal, emitter, lens, and Housing is all there is to work with.

Since it's not a speed of light in vacuum issue, it takes time to contain the generated plasma. Then expand the field. 

Almost every blade is the same length because that's the maximum length to hold the plasma containment. Depending on the Canon, it's not easy to use because it is unstable. The housing vibrates/moves while being used. Also putting the parts together doesn't make them work. You have to join the pieces in the force to make it work. 

It's not an engineering problem because it's only created using the force under meditation. 

The only Jedi who made an interesting version was Corran Horn. His housing was the handle of a swoop bike, which when twisted would swap crystal and lenses into an unstable longer beam which was horribly unbalanced.

In one of the New Jedi Order books there were a couple times turning off the blade worked, but it was dangerous because it could off-balance another fighter when they expected to hit a defense that wasn't there.  However I don't remember if it was ever tried against a superior duelist. Seems like something Mara Jade would do since she fights dirty at times.

[u/CmdrMonocle → u/stnick6]

Even looking at the diagram, the issue is obvious.

Okay, you block their saber, and are in a saber-lock with them, each person trying to overpower the other. Then you move to the side out of the way, hoping they somehow won't notice, while also maintaining the saber-lock. If you don't, when you turn off your sword, you will die. Then, you switch it off, they stumble forwards, your hands fling up. Switch it back on and kill.

All the steps until the end just don't work, and if you're able to make them work, you probably would have crushed them like Anakin vs Younglings in a duel anyway.

[u/Alarming_Ad3067 → u/stnick6]

Another thing about this is like, do people think they keep such bad fighting stances that they'd go completely out of position just because they missed one swing?

If you've trained your whole life for swordfighting, you probably arent gonna go out of balance just because you didnt connect when you expected to. You are trained to keep a fighting stance and be hard to knock over

[u/Schreckberger → u/Alarming_Ad3067]

Yeah. If you're actually ending your attack in a position where you're so unbalanced that the only thing holding you upright is your enemies weapon, you deserve what you get. And you're likely not someone who trained with a weapon for any amount of time.

[u/Infinite_Ad_2203 → u/stnick6]

One reason they don't do it is because it wouldn't actually make the enemy fall over. You're not supposed to put your weight behind a lightsaber strike, so doing this would just be you turning off your defenses and opening yourself up for attack. Countering it isn't impossible, just difficult. It wouldn't be something that all lightsaber users would be able to do

[u/VoidFireDragon → u/stnick6]

Why would I be trying to swing past you?

Couldn't you just sidestep and do the same thing?

[u/Scythe95 → u/stnick6]

Ive never understood this one.

If you’re blocking and you turn your lightsaber off won’t you then just be hit by your opponent because you just turned off your only defense??

[u/YoungGriot → u/stnick6]

The whole "the Jedi think turning off their lightsabers in combat is dishonorable" was actually a complete fan invention, and isn't canon.

[u/stnick6 → u/YoungGriot]

Good.

[u/Interesting-Dot-4753 → u/stnick6]

I’ve heard this 1 million times it makes me mad every time. 

When you’re in a sword fight, you’re not aiming to swing your sword at the opponent’ssword. You’re aiming at the opponent! So if the opponent switches off their Lightsaber, they’re just choosing not to defend and your attack will just hit

[u/Wuskers → u/stnick6]

if a force users speed and reaction time is what would enable them to counter the technique, why can't the speed and reaction time of the force user using the technique be exactly why it could work? This rebuttal to the technique basically relies on the idea that the person using the technique is not a force user and they are fighting a force user with a lightsaber for some reason. You can't hand wave about what force users are capable of as to why something wouldn't work when the hypothetical opponent is also a force user themselves. Also that diagram is a terrible portrayal of how that technique would be effective, it would be most effective with extremely subtle movements with the minimal amount of time between when the lightsaber is on and when it's off, not a big exaggerated make them fall and flip the saber around and get them in the back. Ideally it wouldn't even be that different from normal lightsaber moves it would just involve the saber disappearing for a split second to circumvent any obstacles in front of it. If in a fantasy setting you had sword that had some kind of magical enchantment that made it pass through any other weapon or shield or armor when attacking but it would still tear apart flesh and work when defending, that would be OP af and this technique when done properly would be able to emulate that. Frankly the actual best counter argument is more based on the speed of extension and retraction of a lightsaber and to argue that light sabers themselves aren't actually fast enough to make the ideal application work.

[u/SirAquila → u/Wuskers]

No, the issue is that unless you are a lot better then your opponent, the moment you turn off your blade, your enemy can just do whatever they want, because well, their blade is still on, and the way to whatever organ of yours they want to fry is wide open.

[u/WoodenCanine → u/stnick6]

From what I understand it’s less the invincible move that trumps all others that people hype it up to be and more a very sneaky technique that can catch your opponent off guard.

Like barring the whole precognition/perception thing because at that point why fight at all, if you know you’re going to turn off your lightsaber, then you can plan for after that happens, maybe you catch them off guard and sweep their legs or dodge and counterattack.

Also, as nonsensical this is for single blade users, I actually think this could work decently well for dual blade users.

[u/Strangedays999 → u/stnick6]

They do this in Star Wars Visions in The Elder episode, and somewhat in The Duel episode

[u/Poet_of_Sordland → u/stnick6]

That's not a plot hole anyway.

[u/Localboy97355 → u/stnick6]

Jedi find it dishonorable, Sith believe it shows a lack of skill like a cheap shot.

[u/Erick_Brimstone → u/stnick6]

The only one that I think it make sense is on the fight of Tajin Crosser vs The Elder. And that's because The elder grab Tajin's lightsaber using lightning force. Even then it only works because the elder is distracted for a second.

[u/Femcel_Bambi → u/stnick6]

Plus, after the original trilogy, (including the prequels) the sabers took like a second to extend fully. So you would have that one second fully exposed, so the benefits are very limited.

[u/Alive-Tomatillo5303 → u/stnick6]

I don't know, I've seen some pretty reasonable versions of that.

the second episode has wonky sound but I'm not tracking them all down individually!

[u/Uniqueusername_54 → u/stnick6]

The biggest problem isn't the void, its the lack of a cross guard...briefly fixed in some of the worst star wars movies....

[u/Dead_vegetable → u/stnick6]

I don't know who the hell thought "we are having a sword fight and suddenly I don't have a sword" was a good and valid tactic

[u/Advanced_Question196 → u/stnick6]

Yeah, but what about using the Force to turn their lightsabers off?

[u/StupidAstronaut → u/stnick6]

Why not force turn off the other guys lightsaber instead

[u/LadderExecutioner → u/stnick6]

I hate this one because realistically if you were trained for at least a week you would not aim for your oponents weapon but for his body, meaning turning off your lightsaber would mean gerting sliced in half.

[u/Spader113 → u/stnick6]

Besides, if the Jedi think it’s dishonorable and the Sith think it’s cowardly, then General Grievous would be doing it all the time.

[u/Vounrtsch → u/stnick6]

Yeah exactly, the whole point of a sword bind is not just your opponent preventing you from stabbing them, it’s also you preventing them from stabbing you. If your blade phases through theirs, sure you can stab them, but they can also stab you.

[u/Unexpected_Sage → u/stnick6]

Use that technique while dual wielding, however, may have proven effective though

And by that, I mean blocking with both but then turning off one to bypass their saber and turning it on

[u/ADeletedUser2 → u/stnick6]

The whole turning off a light saber thing like shown in the diagram would only ever work if the opponent is aiming for the lightsaber but they're not, they're aiming for you. Scenic Fights made a great point with how turning on and off a lightsaber would work which would be for sneak attacks but that would only really work on non force users

[u/Im_a_doggo428 → u/stnick6]

I’m pretty sure there was at least one guy that made a style around it

[u/Fluent_In_Influence → u/stnick6]

If force users can't be beaten by making your sword phase through theirs because they "move really fast and [have] enhanced reaction time" how do they ever get beaten in the first place?

Making your sword move through someone's block in a universe with essentially no armour and swords that can easily cut through steel would be a MASSIVE advantage. Yes that particular diagram is stupid, but the theory still works and there are plenty of diagrams just like that that show it.

[u/stnick6 → u/Fluent_In_Influence]

Because both of them can move really fast and have enhanced reaction time

[u/Fluent_In_Influence → u/stnick6]

Right. So the fight is equal. So having an edge by, oh I don't know, making your sword dissapear and appear at will, would be beneficial.

[u/stnick6 → u/Fluent_In_Influence]

If you make your sword disappear then you no longer have a sword to block the sword stabbing you

[u/Fluent_In_Influence → u/stnick6]

So don't do it when you're blocking. Do it when you're attacking.

[u/stnick6 → u/Fluent_In_Influence]

You aren’t immune to being stabbed if you’re attacking

[u/Fluent_In_Influence → u/stnick6]

You are immune to being blocked if you turn of you sword.

[u/stnick6 → u/Fluent_In_Influence]

If you turn off your sword you get stabbed.

[u/Fluent_In_Influence → u/stnick6]

Not if you stab the other person first

[u/SirAquila → u/Fluent_In_Influence]

But you do not have an edge. Not having a sword is NOT an advantage in a sword fight.

The moment your sword disappears your enemy has a massive disadvantage.

Sword fighting is all about controlling the enemies blade and making sure it isn't between you and the enemies vital organs. So if you turn off your sword... well now the enemy can do whatever they want, and because they do not need to turn their sword back on, they WILL be faster.

[u/Fluent_In_Influence → u/SirAquila]

Well maybe don't turn it off when you're just standing there. Turn it off when the enemy is about to block you, and turn it on again when the hilt is pointing at their face.

[u/SirAquila → u/Fluent_In_Influence]

You do know that a lot of sword fighting is about how to smoothly transition between attacking and blocking so you can take advantage of every small mistake your enemy makes?

Turning a successful block into an attack, turning a attack into a quickly block if the enemy was faster with their attack. Hell, more then one technique is about blocking with an attack, or attacking with a block.

Real life isn't a fighting game where the second you press the block button you have to wait for the block animation to finish.

The moment your lightsaber turns off your enemy will be like "Oh, opening in the enemy defense." and by the time you are turning your lightsaber back on you are getting to smell your own burning flesh and organs.

[u/Fluent_In_Influence → u/SirAquila]

Well good news! Star wars isn't real life. And again, you're not just standing there with your lightsaber off. You attack, your opponent moves to block, right before your sabers touch you turn yours off, your "blade" moves through your opponents block, you turn it back on again, your opponent dies. Ezpz

[u/jayboyguy → u/stnick6]

TBH I like the explanation that both sides mutually agree that it’s a bitch made thing to do better

[u/CanardDeFeu → u/stnick6]

I mean, to be fair, we see Jedi do some dumb shit in swordfights already. Constantly turning your back to your opponent mid fight is one of those things you kinda learn not to do day one.

Yes, I'm aware there are explanations in universe, but it's still dumb as shit when someone is trying to kill you to ever let them out of your sight.

[u/Kekkonen_Kakkonen → u/stnick6]

And would this not only work if your opponent was trying to aim only to your sword and not what is BEHIND it (you).

If you would turn of your sword the hit would just land where it was aiming at. The example given in the picture atleast does not work.

[u/theseanbeag → u/stnick6]

The bad guy in the acolyte used the tactic very effectively.

[u/TheToaNuva → u/stnick6]

Apart from just pressing two melee weapons against each other in a clash being stupid (I get it can look cool) I wouldn't rank the sith as brave people who despise cowardice that much, I mean half their culture is about backstabbing each other (or their enemies) to get to power.

[u/Slothful_one_8 → u/stnick6]

They twist the blade at a 45 degree angle and the red saber goes through your face.

[u/EbonyHelicoidalRhino → u/stnick6]

If you turn off your lightsaber, they’ll just stab you.

Use the force to turn off your opponent's lightsaber then.

[u/BadDogSaysMeow → u/stnick6]

Except it’s never mentioned in any movie.
So not the trope OP is talking about.

Secondly, actual written/comic lore does actually mention the technique, and that it is effective, it just says that it isn’t used because Jedi consider it dark side, and Sith consider it cowardly.

[u/MourningWallaby → u/stnick6]

to be fair that's only cannon because george would keep expanding lore on the spot when people asked these kinds of questions. the real answer is doyalist. because george didn't think about it.

[u/Friendly_Housing2705 → u/stnick6]

turn off your lightsaber and you're the one cut in half

[u/EnemyOfAi → u/stnick6]

Don't think this counts as it's never even referenced in any of the movies

[u/LowlySlayer → u/stnick6]

I've seen swordsmanship channels on YouTube try to say that it's a valid technique and it pisses me off lol. The point of a lightsaber can be moved extremely quickly, and doesn't need momentum behind it to injure you severely. The instant you turn off your lightsaber they just twist their wrists and you die.

[u/gabosixo → u/stnick6]

The real issue with it is that all strikes you make with a sword should be at your opponent, not at their sword. Even in real life you can just disengage and hit your opponent if you notice them not actually threatening you with their strike.

[u/Astroweeb → u/stnick6]

we have to show master Yoda

[u/elheber → u/stnick6]

Also, bad movie choreography aside (where the performers swing wide on purpose), each swing and thrust is headed straight toward your body. The saber is blocking a sure strike. Turning yours off would get you sliced.

[u/hellohowdyworld → u/stnick6]

They have started adding this in some of the recent fights so

[u/stnick6 → u/hellohowdyworld]

Yeah that’s the problem. Star Wars does this a lot where they have a “plot hole” that doesn’t actually exist and then in trying to fix it, they just actually make it a plot hole.

[u/Same_Dingo2318 → u/stnick6]

Force Users can block blaster bolts and lightsabers with an application of the Force. This is how to block this cheap move that is absolutely used at times by jerks. Often with specific switches, buttons, or dials for this move.

An example of this application of the Force: Vader blocks Han’s blaster with his hand. This was on Cloud City.

[u/ILLinndication → u/stnick6]

Wait I thought you were talking about turning off their opponents saber. Why wouldn't that work?

[u/stnick6 → u/ILLinndication]

I’m pretty sure lightsabers are pressure sensitive. It’s also possible turning a saber off mid combat is just harder than it’s worth

[u/Consistent_Detail_61 → u/stnick6]

Wait...why would anyone turn off their light saber?

[u/Hazzadcr16 → u/stnick6]

I've always found the biggest issue with lightsabers is how they use them as a sword when fighting.With a "laser sword", the laser part wouldn't have weight. It would feel like holding a torch. It would be quicker and much more effective to hold it out in front of you and simply flick your wrist around. Be a lot quicker than the big swings. Appreciate that would look dam stupid as a fight in a film though.

[u/CiDevant → u/stnick6]

There is a good series of youtube videos about this.

[u/Confident-Shirt-2272 → u/stnick6]

Or simply put. In proper sword fighting your aiming at the person not the sword and the goal is to get your sword into a position where you are defended while also being able to strike. meaning turn of your lightsaber would be a death sentence in a proper to the death fight.

[u/alphawither04 → u/stnick6]

TBF this isn't explained in the movies if I recall, it's in pieces of media most casual viewers won't see so it's more understandable than the Death Star thing.

[u/maybe_the_future_308 → u/stnick6]

Thanks for pointing out that diagram, looked up a bunch of others and really hammered home for me how truly stupid the swordplay in Star Wars is

[u/One-Egg2527 → u/stnick6]

Nah thats stupid as shit if Im in a 1v1 against a stronger opponent with no one around im not going to be "ohhhhh my honor please just slaughter me"

[u/stnick6 → u/One-Egg2527]

Even if it worked, it’s not really a tactic you can use on the back foot

[u/UniversityWooden781 → u/stnick6]

No it would absolutely work. Qui gon got blitzed due to unfamiliarity fighting a double saber. Sneaky tricks like that could easily kill the best. Force them into a lateral parry and all it takes is a tenth of a second to finish the entire fight

[u/stnick6 → u/UniversityWooden781]

Light lasers take way longer than a tenth of a second to activate and deactivate and force users can move way faster

[u/Chagdoo → u/UniversityWooden781]

If youre in a bind and the other guy shuts his fucming sword off, your sword moves forward and cuts him in half.