( Annoying af trope ) When the good guys possess perfect defensive position/advantages that was completely ruined by someone's sheer stupidity, pettiness, or selfishness

[u/Routine_Phase_8980]

I understand that these scenes must happen in order for the plot to continue but they still make me angry till today whenever I think about them because of how easy it could've been avoided. I doesn't mean these scenes are necessarily bad written, just hella hard to watch.

The Jerusalem Wall / The Singing Crowd (World War Z): Israel literally anticipated the zombie apocalypse and built a flawless, massive wall that kept everyone 100% safe. It was the ultimate safe haven. But then people inside started celebrating and singing on a microphone so loudly that it triggered a zombie pyramid, they didn't even stop until the first zombies started coming through. They have less survival instinct than an amoeba.

Ephialtes (300): The Spartans had the perfect phalanx formation at the Hot Gates. They were slaughtering the Persian army with minimal casualties and could have held them off for so much longer. Then this guy gets his feelings hurt because he can't lift a shield, throws a tantrum, and tells Xerxes about the secret goat path.

Grandma Jong-gil (Train to Busan): The survivors fought through hell and literal waves of infected to secure a safe train car. Sure, the crowd inside was selfish for locking them out at first, but everyone was finally safe inside. Then this grandma, fueled by grief and spite over her sister, decides to open the door and let the infected flood the entire car, killing everyone.

[u/MasterGeese]

Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Staunton Vhane.

Directly caused the fall of the crusader stronghold of Drezen by taking the Sword of Valor (A sacred banner) out on a raid against the demons. Unfortunately, that was the plot device preventing demons from teleporting within Drezen's walls, leading almost immediately to an army of demons teleporting into the city and wreaking havoc.

At the time of the start of the game, Staunton is, amazingly, still serving in the ranks of the Crusade, and all his fellow crusaders are making damn well sure he NEVER lives this one down.

[u/DatPug87 → u/MasterGeese]

If you follow the Aeon path you can actually do some time travel fuckery and prevent him from doing this and he instead becomes a hero and guardian of Drezen.

[u/trimble197 → u/MasterGeese]

He’s only serving because of the Queen. Anyone else probably would’ve had him executed or exiled

[u/InvisibleOne439 → u/trimble197]

tbf, he is Pseudo-Exiled

he is part of the Crusade Forces made out of Criminal Conscripts that is mostly used for the Dirty Work and not treated and equipped like Real Soilders, basically Fooder to throw against the Demon Hordes

and the "real" crusaders and public obviously doesnt like those guys

[u/Powerful-Light7956 → u/trimble197]

Note. All of the "redeem" dudes literally betray the crusaders due to the complete mistreatment they get from the Crusaders and not just Vhane who gets the most.

Still, as a certain Gnome would say. Traitors have excuses.

[u/Iamabotclearly696969 → u/MasterGeese]

Yeah well there is a cautionary tale there about the consequences of never letting people who make a mistake live it down, assuming you go down any of the non-retcon Aeon paths.

[u/Powerful-Light7956 → u/MasterGeese]

That reason is kinda more excusable (although some would say he just making an excuse but then again) he is serving as a sort of a pentinent crimal as a mook that he get mistreated a lot. That is why he become such an easy to change sides. That applies to literally everyone in that group. I could say, best to blame the "good guys" who suppose to keep this folk motivated or at least not treating them like crap.

This line literally says he rather die than expect some false hope. That is how utterly broken he was.

Although the Aeon Path at least will change this outcome but.

[u/scoonbug → u/MasterGeese]

And boy howdy if you try to redeem him through any non Aeon path you learn he thinks redemption is bullshit

[u/Special-Call494 → u/scoonbug]

Yeah, I tried so hard to redeem him in my first playthrough as Angel but it goes nowhere.

[u/Llayanna → u/Special-Call494]

At least his story was more interesting than in the AP.

One of the clear upgrades, because he just straight up never stopped working for the demons and is EBIL. 

Here, it could've turned out differently and it makes for a more compelling story.

[u/lordkrassus → u/Llayanna]

EBIL? Evil Bastard in love?

[u/trimble197 → u/scoonbug]

He’s unfortunately broken by the time we meet him. That’s the tragedy of it.

[u/InvisibleOne439 → u/scoonbug]

its not "redemption is bullshit" if anything he tells you and Ember that its Nobel and Inspiring that you try it

its just that he is SO broken after an entire lifetime of humiliation that he decides to join the Demons because he sees no point in serving the Crusade anymore that will never let his past mistakes go in a shortsighted desicion

and when he sees what the Demons are doing just fully breaks down and believes that he doesnt deserve any redemption with all the blood on his hands

[u/BalancePuzzleheaded8 → u/MasterGeese]

Don't forget that the Queen does the exact same thing 😆

I'm on my Azata atm, but I'm still waiting for her to condemn herself.

Come on, bitch, you condemned Staunton for the same thing.... ONLY THIS IS MY BANNER, NOT IOMADAE'S 😂

[u/Akodo_Aoshi → u/BalancePuzzleheaded8]

Uh no?

Staunton took the banner without authorisation and planning, leading to a surprise attack on Drezen.

Galfrey considered the situation (a whole LOT of enhanced demons decimating the armies) and decided to take a chance.

It was a risky decision but the other choice to just stand around and wait? Going to result in a loss.

[u/BalancePuzzleheaded8 → u/Akodo_Aoshi]

It is the exact same thing 🤣 she does the same thing as Staunton, someone she condemned for 70 years (70 is a long time, this religious ethnostate is brutal)

Just because she's in charge doesn't mean she's not stupidly doing the same thing.

I have the weirdest companion party members, so none of us really like the Queen. She is a tyrant (and I did finish the game before, she never stepped down. Power hungry tyrant)

My consistent companions are: Regill, Lann, Arueshalae, Daeran, Woljif and of course Aivu. Yeah, the banter is amazing, and they're all critical of the queen 😂 no one is lawful good here, is my point.

I'm just gonna add that the Queen is a very well done character. A lawful good paladin who does some reeeeally bad things oh my goodness. She's more of a person than lawful good, but still. Queen Galfrey here is a figurehead, she isn't good with tactics at all. She also has terrible judgement for people (not one but 2 traitors? C'mon son 😂)

I compare Queen Galfrey to President Myers all the time, it's that kinda feeling. And you know, at least President Myers knows she's doing heinous shit. Queen Galfrey is self righteous about it. Mendev is a bunch of self righteous assholes who don't accept anyone who is different. Oooooooh it must be the paladins who can fight the demons... Bitch please, there are so many others who can help too 😆

Edit to add: you don't just sacrifice the key fortress for trade in the Worldwound. Drezen is mega important, it's where the supplies and armies can go through to get to the rest of the Worldwound. Tactically, she shouldn't have left at all. She thought the Knight Commander dead, this is fair, she did send them on a suicide mission. Thinking they're dead, she could have taken advantage of what was taken and start moving the remaining ward stones inwards, cutting off the demons with the lands that were conquered by the Knight Commander. It's all a tactical game of holding the line.

Yeah the mythic demons are on the way, but she really doesn't know if the Knight Commander died accomplishing their mission. She could bet on that too. More people is what's needed there. Accept help from the other countries for once?

[u/know-it-mall → u/MasterGeese]

I keep meaning to play this game.

[u/Belmut_613 → u/know-it-mall]

You should it's great and now finished with all of the dlcs and updates out.

[u/orionpax- → u/MasterGeese]

you always have to fight him right? no way to stop the fight?

[u/Nephilim317 → u/orionpax-]

Iirc if you follow the aon path you can alter the past so he never makes the mistake in the first place

That's the only way

[u/DragonWisper56 → u/MasterGeese]

does he not know that most demons in pathfinder have teleport? why the hell would he do that?

[u/InvisibleOne439 → u/DragonWisper56]

iirc he was just a random basic young soilder, and the normal troops didnt know that the Sword of Valor was the thing that prevented Demons from Teleporting near the Stronghold

and the entire thing was Staged by a powerfull Lilitu, Demons that specialize on deception and trickery by making herself look like a normal Mortal Woman that was a part of the Crusade, gained his trust as a "fellow Soilder" over a long time, and then told him some day when most of the forces where out fighting "quick, we need somebody that brings the Sword of Valor outside of the Stronghold to this place so it helps them against a Demon Ambush", and when he belived her and did that, the Demons immediately striked because their Plan worked

he was just the very unlucky Soul that was randomly chosen to be a pawn in a Demons Plan

[u/DragonWisper56 → u/InvisibleOne439]

well now I feel bad for him. Honestly I feel like this is his superiors fault. if they made sure everyone knew that the sword should never be removed then it make the lititu's plan much more difficult to pull off

[u/InvisibleOne439 → u/DragonWisper56]

yeha, that is kinda the thing the game tries to tell you

what Stauton did was really bad, caused the most important Stronghold in the Crusade to fall and MANY Crusaders died extremely horrible deaths (you can find diary entrys that explain how the Demons Tortured some of the Soilders, and its really fucked up stuff)

but at the same time, he was a normal person that was a Victim of a Demon of Trickery and didnt do out as a Malicious act, if it wasnt him it would have just been another random Soilder instead

and afterwards instead of getting Executed, he was punished by getting put into the Criminal Conscript Army called the Condemned "to fight for the Crusade until you earn your redemption" by the Queen as a act of "Mercy", but that "redemption" never came

by the time the game starts he is fighting for the Crusade as a part of the Condemned for over 70 Years and is just a broken Man

one of his Dialoges is him saying "i saw Generations of People getting born, grow up, and die in the Crusades, and for all of them im the biggest Disgrace of the World, everyone knows the name of Stauton the Traitor, they spit at me and tell me that i dont even deserve death", and the Queen that could clear his name refuses to do so

[u/Akodo_Aoshi → u/InvisibleOne439]

@ u/DragonWisper56

u/InvisibleOne439 is a bit wrong here.

Staunton was first off 'seduced' by the Demon Minhago in elven form and was convinced to take the the Banner out but...

It was not to 'save' soldiers or whatever .

Staunton wanted the glory.

The City of Drezen had been holding out against the Demons for a long while (due to the Banner) but at the same time they had not been pushing the Demons back. The Crusaders were not winning, they were enduring a long siege.

Staunton was convinced by Minhago that the Higher Ups were being 'cowards' or 'too cautious' when they could just charge out with the Banner and drive the Demons away.

Staunton the Hero!...

And yeah that resulted in the city being taken.