I’ve been going back through some older True Crime Bullsh** episodes, and after relistening to the Jon Corey episode and the Schools episodes, I keep coming back to a theory. There are obviously several speculative steps here, so I’m mainly curious whether others have picked up on the same things — or can poke holes in it.

Could Keyes have kept drugs in some of his caches, alongside weapons, murder/disposal materials, money, trophies or other things he considered useful? And could drugs sometimes have been a way of gaining access to potential victims?
One thing that got me thinking about this was Keyes’ confession about the Curriers. He mentions taking medication from their house — painkillers, if I’m remembering correctly. As far as I’ve been able to establish, those medications weren’t recovered during the searches afterwards.

Keyes was also a prolific thief. Burglaries and robberies were part of his criminal life, and his caches show that he was perfectly comfortable stealing or acquiring something in one place and storing it somewhere else for later use.
So what if that occasionally included drugs?
Maybe for his own use. Maybe because they had value. But possibly also because they were useful.
That thought became much more interesting to me when I went back to Jon Corey’s disappearance:

https://charleyproject.org/case/jonathan-henry-corey

In the episode covering Corey, there’s a detail about the house party before his disappearance that I can’t quite get past.
Jon apparently leaves the party for roughly an hour, at the request of his friend “Ricky”, and manages to score cocaine.

But how?

As Josh states in the episode about Jon, the party was at an isolated house in a very rural area. Jon didn’t have a car. Yet somehow he leaves, obtains cocaine and returns within about an hour.
Maybe there’s a completely mundane explanation for this that I’ve missed. Someone drove him. A dealer lived nearby. Someone delivered it. But if not, who did Jon meet that night, and how did he get to that person?
That’s where the Schools episodes, particularly “Schools, Part One: Evergreen,” started ringing bells for me.

Josh discusses indications that Keyes may have spent more time around Evergreen and the surrounding area than previously realised, including sightings and possible attempted assaults. Keyes had of course also been stationed at Fort Lewis, which is close to Evergreen State College and Geoduck Beach.

More interestingly, Josh talks about Keyes and other soldiers from Fort Lewis partying with Evergreen students. If I’m remembering the sourcing correctly, Keyes was known in that period as a very heavy drinker, could become nasty/aggressive when drunk, and was also using cocaine.
If that information holds up, Keyes didn’t merely have geographic proximity to Evergreen. He potentially had an established way into that student scene — and into a scene where cocaine was being used.
And that made me wonder about Jon’s mysterious one-hour coke run.
Could Jon have encountered Keyes before? Could Keyes have been somebody who could get him cocaine, or had previously offered to? Could Keyes have used cocaine as a way to approach people in that environment?

I’m not saying that Keyes was Jon’s dealer, or that the fact Jon obtained cocaine somehow proves Keyes was involved. We don’t even know that Keyes was anywhere near that party.
But Keyes was comfortable approaching strangers, stealing, planning encounters and getting people away from places where they were safe. If he also had access to cocaine — whether bought, stolen or potentially stored in a cache — then “I can get you coke” would be a very simple way of getting a partying student to voluntarily leave their friends and go somewhere with him.

And then there’s the other part of the Corey case that makes it difficult for me to dismiss as just another Keyes-shaped coincidence.
Keyes refers in his interviews to a disappearance that had been described in a newspaper as a “presumed” boating accident. As I understand his statement, the missing person’s boat had been found, while Keyes knew that what actually happened to that person was nothing remotely resembling a boating accident.

Then look at Jon.
He disappeared on January 30, 2002. He was supposedly crossing Eld Inlet by canoe. He reportedly called a friend after leaving and said he’d made it to the other side.
He never came back.
His canoe was found.
His boots and jacket were found.
Jon wasn’t.

The presumed explanation became drowning.
And all of this happened in an area where Keyes had lived, trained and potentially socialised with the exact student population Jon belonged to.
That’s a pretty specific combination.
Again, none of this means Keyes killed Jon Corey. There are several big missing links here, and it’s very easy with Keyes to work backwards from an unsolved disappearance and make everything look significant.

But the combination is what bothers me:
Keyes/Fort Lewis → Evergreen student parties → cocaine → possible predatory activity around Evergreen

and then:

Jon Corey → Evergreen → isolated house party → unexplained one-hour cocaine run without his own transportation → disappears shortly afterwards → canoe and clothing recovered → presumed boating accident → no body.

The part of my theory I’m least certain about is the cache itself. I haven’t found evidence that investigators actually recovered recreational drugs from a Keyes cache. My thinking is simply that his caches may have been broader than the label “murder kits” sometimes suggests.
Maybe they were better understood as criminal supply depots: weapons, restraints, money, tools, disposal materials and whatever else he thought could be useful later.

If Keyes stole prescription medication from the Curriers, and if he was already using cocaine himself and moving around environments where drugs were available, I don’t think it’s a huge conceptual leap to wonder whether drugs could occasionally have ended up in those caches too.
The much bigger leap is connecting any of that to Jon.

For me, that really comes down to one question:
Who did Jon get the cocaine from that night, and
how did he physically get to that person and back?
If that has a straightforward documented answer, a big part of this theory falls apart.
If it doesn’t, then combined with the Evergreen material and Keyes’ extremely odd “presumed boating accident” comment, well …

Episodes I’m referring to: 0504 covering Jon Corey’s disappearance, and the “Schools” episodes, particularly 0604 “Schools, Part One: Evergreen.”

I found a small town bank robbery that I belive keyes could be responsible for. Link to articles below.

His Timeline matches, keyes flew into Boston November 2, 2008, and the Bank was robbed the morning after. That would have given him enough time to stake it out and look for escape routes. The suspect description is almost identical to the tupper lake robbery (except for the fake beard and mustache).

The robbery itself was a bit different to the other bank robberies we know he commited, the suspect in this robbery never showed a gun and did a "poor mans bank robbery".

Keyes states that he never did a note robbery. However if we look at the tupper lake robbery, he intially pulled out a note but got nervous once he saw how many people were in the bank and decided to do a takeover. So in my opinion keyes never did a takeover bank until the tupper lake incident.

I think keyes did note robberies before tupper lake because they were less likely to trigger a massive police response, fbi involment or big news coverage. Keyes said that the motivation for his bank robberies was the challenge and adrenaline, money was just a bonus.

Its hard to tell from the cctv footage if it is keyes or not. Suspect is leaning over the counter so he looks shorter than he really is. Also cant get a good look of how small his chin is which I think is keyes's most recognizable facial feature. Suspect looks to have a pretty big nose aswell but from this angle it looks wider than keyes's nose. It would be easier to rule him out if we got more cctv photos.

An interesting thing I found is an article about this robbery which was about a local school going into lockdown. Keyes mentioned that he had read the tupper lake robbery caused all the schools in town to go on lockdown. But ive never been able to find any articles that mentions this?

https://www.lowellsun.com/2008/11/04/robbery-prompts-lockdown-of-school/

Suspect description article: https://eu.wickedlocal.com/story/tewksbury-wilmington-advocate/2008/11/03/bank-robbery-on-main-street/38419661007/

Article with cctv picture of suspect: https://homenewshere.com/tewksbury_town_crier/article_15058f2b-2ef8-5b32-86fb-3cfac365af51.html

These are two separate posts on Instagram. The accompanying audio in the announcement -along with a song I don’t think this sub cares to hear- is: “I’m two different people basically.” “How long have you been two different people?” “A long time. 14”

Hey everyone! I’ve been following this case for years, but somehow only recently discovered the TCB podcast. I’m curious about something…has Common Grounds’ footage from 1/31/12 (the night before Samantha was taken) ever been released? In one of IK’s confessions, he says that he visited the coffee stand the night before to scope it out. He stated that he didn’t think that Samantha was working, but her timesheet says she worked Sunday through Wednesday that week, so it would have been her working. I’m just curious if you can see him at all on any recordings the day before.

Haven't listened to any yet myself, either, but I just saw this and figured others might also be interested. Appreciate these guys sharing them all for free.

Trenton Duckett(NAMUS44) was on Keyes computer. I believe that he was looking up a possible victim Jim Duckett. Trenton’s grandfather’s name was James “Jimmy” Duckett. Trenton was a missing child case in Florida in 2006 that received a lot of media attention. Jim Duckett was murdered in his home in Shelbyville, Kentucky in 2008 and didn’t receive a lot of media attention. His murder was very “Oakley al kite” style. Has this ever been discussed?

Sorry if this isn't allowed but I've been getting really into the Unmarked podcast and they finally did an episode on Keyes. For the most part I liked it, I love that this guy covers cases from a more psychology-focused angle and there was some interesting stuff about his childhood in there. For me it's very telling that he was taken out of society at 5 years old and that even though he and his older sister were born prior to the move they were still undocumented home births.

The host interviews the head of the Anchorage FBI at the time Keyes was in custody and also Maureen Callahan, who true to her ...dubiously honest nature, floats the idea that Keyes killed his father which I personally think is nuts and just sensationalism but what else is new. I was very struck by what she claims Heidi says about Israel though - not that his first kill was early than the FBI thinks, personally I don't trust her speculation, but that she believes her own son to be the embodiment evil sent to scare sinners back to god. YIKES.

I don't love that they floated Julie Harris as a potential victim because I believe the evidence for Keyes in this case is very thin and circumstantial. They also get a few details wrong like saying he burned down the house the Curriers were left in, instead of only floating then abandoning the idea. Overall it's good crash course coverage from a different angle than I usually see and I'd love to get other people's thoughts on it.

https://youtu.be/K9tlsuqo7ow?si=F8hoMBNcgefTneVZ

Totally random observation and for sure it's a case of pareodolia, but hear me out Keyes was 34 when he died. We know he was a self acclaimed atheist, but it's interesting to ponder that another guy also died at around 34, a guy Keyes had heard a lot about growing up: Jesus.
Seeing how brazen Keyes last actions was, murder and kidnapping in his own state, then the whole ransom plot while driving around in Texas, maybe he wasn't spiraling, maybe he did this so carelessly because he really wanted to get cought and be know as a shadowy boogeyman forever? Maybe he thought 34 was a fitting time to end..

Josh and SITP podcast were very excited that they “found” a Keyes cache. I believe in the LaPlace episode Josh even says that they now know that it was legit and Keyes was there.

Then we later find out that their is no record or evidence that this incident ever occurred. It is literally just one guys story about something that may have happened.

Is there any other information that could have made this man’s account more reliable or plausible such as him knowing some type of “hold back” information and corroborating that with the TCB team? I tend to think this is not the case since we haven’t received any update about this incident after almost two years

I do think it’s feasible that this could have taken place due to the location and the maps that Halla provided but it is frustrating that this issue has not been elaborated on more in the podcast.

Overall I enjoy the podcast I just wish that the TCB team would admit more when they are wrong and give more detailed reasons of why they were wrong. So many times theories or information has been stated in a way where it makes the listener think that this information will be followed up in the podcast in the next few episodes only to not ever hear anything about the particular said topic again.

Hello everyone, I have been an on-again, off-again listener of True Crime BS since the pandemic. I am into filing public records and FOIA requests, so I figured that I would try filing a request related to Keyes with the Washington State Fusion Center.

I filed the request using Muckrock. I receive a couple of ZIP folders. Most of it is not very relevant. The first ZIP folder mostly email threads that include "round-ups" of news stories from where the Keyes investigation is mentioned in passing.

The second ZIP folder is slightly more interesting as it contains some emails from Ted Halla to Washington State anthropologist in regards to hunt for the Washington State Keyes victims. Halla expresses the hope that the Washington State victims will be identified before his retirement, etc.

Included in the files is one document of note. I don't think there's anything "new" in it, but it is a summary of what was suspected about Keyes' Washington State victims as of July 30 2024.

Here's a summary of the document:

Israel Keyes - Washington State Victims

Last update: 07/30/2024

Background in Washington State:

• Keyes lived in Eastern WA State as a child and teenager.

• He was stationed at Fort Lewis while in the U.S. Army (Now Joint Base Lewis-McChord) from the Summer of 1999-2001.

• Keyes moved to Neah Bay, WA during the Summer of 2001 and stayed until the Spring of 2007.

Washington State Victims (Overall):

• Keyes indicated that he had killed four (4) individuals in WA State. These crimes occurred in the 2001 to 2006 timeframe. None of the victims had been shot.

• Victims were killed with a knife and/or by strangulation.

• Keys moved a victim's vehicle, in at least one of the incidents, to throw off investigators.

• The disappearance of the WA State victims received little and in some cases, no media coverage.

• Victims were killed in both Eastern and Western Washington State.

• One of the crimes was associated with Ellensburg, Washington. One of the crimes likely occurred on National Park/Forest land. Washington State Victims (Specifics) WA State victims 1 and 2.

• A "couple" (male and female) were killed. The male was killed by a shovel strike. The female was both stabbed and strangled.

• The female was described as an "older woman." [Keyes would have been approximately 23-26 during this time period] The female was tied up. Both were buried in a grave.

• Keyes mentioned that pine needles were on the ground, a water source was nearby and that he could hear the sound of vehicles in the valley below the crime scene. WA State victims 3 and 4.

• Gender unknown.

• Victims 3 and 4 were killed in separate incidents. The crimes occurred after Keyes acquired his Bayliner boat (Acquired in April 2005). Both victims were dismembered and sunk in WA State lakes. Homemade, cement filled milk jugs were used to sink the bodies. Unclear whether the bodies were dismembered or whole when they were sunk in the lake. One victim was disposed of in Lake Crescent located near Port Angeles, Washington. Keyes' Bayliner boat's Mercury engine broke down on June 24, 2006 while boating with friends on Lake Ozette. A witness did not believe that Keyes ever fixed the motor after this.

Additional information.

• Keyes identified a rope that was found in his boat as having been involved in one of the crimes (negative for usable DNA). Keyes had to re-carpet the boat at one point due to the large amount of victim blood. Keyes used a specific Cold Steel brand, folding knife, in at least one of the crimes. It is believed that this knife was acquired in 2002-2004 time frame. Keyes expected investigators to find this knife in his boat or during the search of his home. Investigators have never recovered this knife. Keyes believed that DNA evidence may still be located inside the knife. Investigators are suspicious of a trip that Keyes took to the Hunters, Washington area the weekend of April 1-3, 2005.

• Keyes indicated that he had a "cache" located near the Port Angeles, Washington area. Keyes could not recall if he had anything belonging to prior victim(s) located within that cache.

• Keyes indicated that he had to move one of the Washington State caches due to a water related issue with the original location.

It might worth having a debate about other public records requests (remember there's a difference between FOIA vs. public records requests) could be filed. Most states created fusion centers post 9/11. Requests for information about Keyes or his victims might have gone through these fusion centers (on a state-by-state basis) and they might be much easier documents to request now.

Just finished tcb, and was doing some digging. I noticed that one of Keyes brothers is a member of the Facebook group for discussion around the Keyes cases. Has he ever spoken publicly or to journalists about Israel? I know it was mentioned somewhere in this thread and on the podcast that Israel sent letters to some of his siblings, has the contents of these been discussed anywhere in depth ?

I have never heard anyone confirm this. The FBI seemed to be really convinced that the 12 pieces of paper left behind is a confirmation of 11 victims, the 12th paper being a representation of himself. But, how many pieces of paper did Israel even have? Maybe he just used all of them that he had. Do we know if these came from some sort of note book or what?

Also, I heard somewhere about among his things there was a 'crude' drawing he made, does anyone have any information on this?

Just came across an interview from 5 months ago of Mauren Callahan by Megyn Kelly on YouTube. Listening to it I am astonished how Maureen gets so much information wrong and gives so many bad theories and false information.

She says that Keyes is most likely the Boca Raton killer.

She says he most likely killed Julie Harris and the two people that died in the fire in Coleville.

She states that he brought his victims across state lines to bury them even though the only time that could be possibly confirmed is for Debra Feldman perhaps.

She literally says that no one knows how Keyes father died and that no one knows where his body is.

She states that there was a manhunt for Keyes and that’s how he was caught.

There was also countless other things throughout the interview. I just don’t understand with someone who wrote a book on the topic and arguably has the closest relationship to some important key sources in the case and she gets so much wrong. Is she just being lazy and sloppy or are we missing something big?

How do you understand this statement? I don’t think it’s applicable to any other group than people living on the fringe of society. Campers do not go missing all the time, and surely people are surprised. But sex workers, drug users…people aren’t surprised and it does happen a lot. Differing pov’s are very welcome and I’d like to hear if you think there is some other group this could apply to. Maximumslip here on Reddit came up with a plausible theory for the missing “couple”, but that post has since been deleted. His idea was that maybe the guy walked into a situation, and IK then “took him out of action”. If that is the case, their families would not know their disappearances were in any way linked, and who knows how far apart they would have been reported, if at all. This could also have made IK change his MO from attack and crime scene in the same place to abducting people, realising a second location is needed for ensure privacy.

How do Redditors who have little or no money feel about the trips for listeners by Charlie from Crimelines and Josh Hallmark from True Crime Bullshit etc.? The ones to Bali, South America, Iceland…

The background to my question is that of course, I’d love to join them. And I regret not being able to go—but I won’t be able to in this lifetime because I’m too ill. So in this sense I don’t have any skin in the game.

I wondered whether it might be nicer if at least one spot could be raffled off. The travel agency that sponsors it—there is a sponsor, right?—could finance that. What do y‘all think?

Ps. I am still a tad unsure, if these journeys are at least in part wheelie accessible – That it’s 2026 is not something that would convince any of us, eh? However the parttaking Podcasters care a lot about politics and justice. So I guess so. Josh…?

I’ve been a fan of the podcast for years, but like a lot of people that has waned with time. However, as I was listening to the latest episode I thought, “Wow, this is why I listen. Josh is such a great writer. Ha, he’s even acknowledging people’s frustration. And any minute now I’m going to hear the morsel of info that is going to really make me think.” Then the episode just ended…Keyes had a map of Arkansas. Wow. I mean I get it. I enjoyed the episode. But when you frame the episode the way he did, and then still not deliver the meat, it’s kind of infuriating.

Just sharing for exposure

I’ll leave this message from Brianna’s family. They thank everyone for thinking and sharing her story

https://www.mynbc5.com/article/brianna-maitland-22-year-anniversary/70785638

Just looked at patreon wondering if the finale promised this week had actually been released.

I'm not a subscriber, so I can only see the title:

Season Finale Tomorrow 23 minutes ago

What sort of odds do you think a prediction market app would give as to whether it's actually released or not?

I believe that Keyes suicide note is about Giovanna, they knew each other (sort of) kids went to the same school, same neighborhood. Keyes didn't like to chat with his victims once he had them, he was a bumrusher. Giovanna would be the only one he'd probably talk to and make laugh nervously as he states in his letter. While certainly not bright red she did have reddish tinted hair....maybe im way off just a thought

This is in no way to shame, hate on Josh etc.

However I do feel like this many seasons in he should be pre recording the whole season and being more strategic. It feels like he is doing the assignment the night before always and now when he can’t do it giving us an interview to listen to. It also sheds light on how earlier seasons were not fully researched or vetted and now things are sometimes back tracked.

I hope his mental health improves, it very much seems like he had fed off the dopamine of doing things last min and now turned into this downward spiral of incomplete seasons.

There is no cohesive story line or theme. I got nothing out of this season, besides one episode, I think I’m done with TCB !

I recently learned that there were quite a few recorded calls in the time of Keyes, arrest and eventual death

Does anybody know if these are available through FOIA or are they sealed?

I am curious about what happened to the search of Lake Crescent. Is there any chance that there could be more investigation there, or is the issue that local law enforcement/FBI don't have the bandwidth to do the search?

Also, how probable do we think it is that Keyes may have been bullshitting about disposing of bodies in Lake Crescent? He says he used weighted milk jugs, of course, but knowing what he did at Matanuska Lake, I am assuming it could be the truth. But maybe he was just spinning a line.

DNA testing has recently become quite sophisticated. The FBI and the Virginia State Police just solved a few of the "Colonial Parkway Murders" using evidence that is about 35-40 years old. Some of this DNA came from "rape kits". Other DNA may have come from skin cells.

Family members of the victims have been pushing hard for answers; six murders have now been solved. These same family members are now trying to get the serial killer's DNA entered into CODIS ( a national database for criminals' DNA). He died before he was convicted of any of the murders; the rules in Virginia for this specific situation are confusing at best.

This type of DNA testing is really expensive. There are grants available for "rape kit" evidence. A company in Florida is able to expertly analyze very small and partially degraded samples and come up with matches.

It seems that the FBI is quite hesitant to run DNA tests when the evidence is so limited. It is pretty likely that Keyes' boat had some evidence, and that some victims could be identified using this evidence.

If you want to understand this situation a little better, the Colonial Parkway Murder investigations are a good place to start (crime scene analysis was conducted by the Park Service Police, the FBI, and the Virginia State Police). The information is really interesting and a bit of a roller coaster ride.