The first creates a defensive potion that harms those who attack you and makes them die faster so long as they keep doing so. Very on brand.

The second is used in all manner of strength boosting, rage inducing, anti-demon potions and more.

The third, its not even named after him nor is found in the world, but shows what kept him somewhat intact throughout ten thousand years, and the power thereof. It boosts your healing power.

And then there is Khadgar's fuckin whisker ig.

Hey.

I’ve recently started collecting the Warcraft novels in English, specifically the larger Blizzard Legends paperback editions. However, I noticed that three stories seem to be missing from the collection:
● Tides of Darkness
● Cycle of Hatred
● Of Blood and Honor

Does anyone know why these were never released in the same format? And is there any chance Blizzard might reprint them in the future, especially with WoW: Forever coming out?

I’d love to complete my collection with matching editions. Thanks!

Note: don't take this post seriously.

Imagine if Blizzard made a new version of Classic WoW but instead of using classic they start with a real alternative universe and rewrite WoW story fully from the start.

Stage1:

The game world start at Draenor but without the involvement of Garrosh nor the main universe characters.

They use just Draenor from WoD but with new story, dungeons and raids.

The horde will have only orcs as playable race, the alliance will have Draenei as playable race, the focus will be on exploring Draenor for pve content like how classic explored Azeroth with each zone have unique stories and characters, the pvp will focus on the war between the orcs and the Draenei.

Focus on world building, showing the clans and their villages for the horde as expanding the Draenei with different cities, villages, factions and temples.

Stage2:

Gul'dan open the dark portal, but this time the Draenei didn't lose the war yet the war not over yet, Velen also open a portal to Azeroth and this time the horde lead by Orgrim while Blackhand stayed in Draenor to rule his clan, Orgrim need new allies to help him fight the humans of Stormwind, he made an alliance with their enemies the Gurubashi trolls, Velen sent Maraad with the army of the light to make alliance and help the humans fight the horde.

Humans and jungle trolls added as playable races for each faction.

This stage will focus only on the region of Stormwind with their cities and the south jungles and forests of the Gurubashi trolls.

Stage3:

This will take the war north, to the mountain region of Khaz modan, dwarves and gnomes join the alliance and troggs and goblins join the horde.

The next stages:

To keep things short you understand the pattern, exploring Azeroth and even Draenor slowly and expanding them in grounded way with the pve focus on the new local regional problems and the pvp keep focusing on the war but without massive changes as the world will be explored slowly with every region have low and high lvl zones.

For sure I am making this post just for funz and brainstorming ideas, but if Blizzard did something like this for classic+ instead of forever, where they could take the lore in your opinion and will it be cool way to expand Azeroth without the old world limitations or it will be bad?

Shouldn't forsaken be a liability of being re-possessed by the lich king whenever he feels like it?

How do you think that Shandris should have been written as a character in World of Warcraft, to make her a character beyond just being Tyrande and Malfurion's adoptive daughter, and Tyrande's right-hand and the General of the Sentinels?

What kind of personality should she have been given to make her more distinct and memorable as a character?

In addition, what kind of leader and general, and how skilled of a general, should she have been presented as to make her position as General of the Sentinels feel earned? And how should her fighting prowess have been described and portrayed in the game, novels, and other stories around her?

I think the devs and writers really missed the ball with Shandris, and she should have had a stronger personality, loving and admiring Tyrande but not feeling too submissive, and her character shouldn't have centered on Tyrande.

I would have written out the crush on Jarod Shadowsong stuff, especially since nothing came of it (and the Kaldorei plot in Wolfheart was far from good imo, especially with Maiev turning crazy and becoming an enemy, only for the Legion to reverse the situation without any explanation).

And she should have been written, imo, as a legendary huntress and warrior, whose fighting skills are unmatched and whose talent and experience with the bow are really the stuff of legends and terrifying in battle. As a general, she should have been depicted as a master of guerrilla warfare, hit-and-run tactics, and Fabian strategy, with Ashenvale and other Kaldorei lands being a nightmare to invade and even more to hold, and she should have been presented imo, as having some hesitations about technology and magic but being flexible and pragmatic enough to see and accept the value of welcoming guns and mages in the Night Elf military (though with special earplugs, given how painfully noisy guns should be to Elves, and how deafening cannons especially should be to them), and without her needing far less-experienced humans to teach her.

And I actually see her as one of the more pragmatic and flexible Night Elves about cooperation with other Alliance races, but one of the least forgiving toward the Horde, without reaching Maiev's level of hostility. I also see her as someone who cares deeply about her Sentinels, viewing them as her sisters and thus being fiercely protective of them, even if she acknowledges the risks and inevitable sacrifices they will have to make, and are ready to make, and of her people as a whole.

Hey everyone.

Forsaken kingdom put up some questions for me and I hope someone can answer them.

As far as I know, the forsaken cant make the dead rise at this point of the story. It is only the scourge can do that and the forsaken get off the lichkings will because he lost some power. Ok.

But Putress and others create new creatures from dead bodies. How does that work? Anya told Garek, the forsaken cant rise the dead, only the scourge can. But this also raises the questions, why was Garek undead under the lichkings will, got killed again and was taken back to life again? Maybe thie gets answered in the story.

Thank you all.

Sorry but I don't get it. In WC3, it was Kael who suggested Illidan to help Akama's village in exchange for their help. Nor did he have any beef with Akama in the rest of the plot. At that time, the draenei were only a broken small tribe as well.

OK suddenly in TBC, when they did nothing to him, he joined the legion and took their ship, then he suddenly hates them so much? That's just out of character like the rest of his TBC plot.

Hello,

Am I dumb to not understand why Salandria, who barely know us, would give us her mother's sword who also barely knew us, or worse if we're alliance or death knight, we tried to kill her a few times.

Why wouldnt she want to keep it

I understand blizzard wanting us to have the skin, but it wouldnt be the first time they give us the appearance of a weapon that we do not possess canonically

Basically the title. I am inclined to believe they can't, but Sylvanas ambushed Arthas with her banshees in the frozen throne. The lich king did alert him but they were surrounded by troops that didn't notice

We could literally just ask Venari to take us to the Shadowlands and ask The Arbiter where Liadrin went or even ask to speak with her. Maybe even ask to see if she could come back, in spirit form, to Azeroth. Before everyone is like “but we can’t go to the Shadowlands in canon anymore because the portal closed”. Venari has already made it clear she can open a portal to the Shadowlands whenever she wants, she did so when Arator went to find Sylvanas. Taz’avesh can also transport to the Shadowlands on a whim and I’m pretty sure they owe us big time for giving their world soul back to Venari.

I feel like the concept of death in WoW is just ruined now because the Shadowlands may as well just be another planet people get sent to when they “die”. And we could visit anytime we want with the right help

The new Dornogal stuff is kinda nothing cuz the big info is encrypted. Tyr visits Dornogal. You go to Uldaman and loot Archaedas’ corpse (which has a new model) for his security disc to see if you can get access to the Coreway. This unlocks a new Archive but it's encrypted. But lorewalking is on PTR

But there are some new lore scenarios and reveals in the Titans lorewalking. I’m going to focus on the new stuff and not the quests we replay.

The Titans

• We cover: The deaths of Archaedas and Discs of Norgannon. The Archive in Halls of Stone. Parts of the Archaedas archive in TWW. This all focuses on the deviations of the dwarves and titanforged race. Compare Thraegar transformation and curse of flesh of two forms of deviations. Then transition to Algalon’s stuff in 3.1. It just follows the quest up to Rhonin’s speech without any change.
• There is a potential implication for the wording that the Old Gods may not have been responsible for the curse of flesh. But it may also just be awkward wording to compare the Thraegar and Dwarves as two variants.
• Lili foreshadows “how far will the Titans go to retain control of Azeroth”.
• Then jump to the Pantheon themselves. “Worldsouls are often beset by demons, Void and more. Two of the Pantheon were charged with eradicating these threats by force”. (See sections below)

The Battle of Frachtorn

• Lili says this info comes from Algalon, who was called to battle. Features when Sargeras told Aggramar about the void corrupted worldsoul he destroyed (previously detailed in Chronicles but has some brief amendments to recent lore and has a setting).
• Takes place on the planet Frachtorn, you play a memory as a Constellar, led by Olviron the Sentinel. Sargeras and Aggramar have called the Constellar to help battle the void.
• They are both giants standing in the background fighting equally sized void monsters. MASSIVE models (but not planet sized).
  
• Sargeras voices doubts that they have fought this battle on world after world and what if there was no end. “What do you mean, each world saved could be another sister or brother to welcome”.
• Sargeras: “You do not know what I have seen, Aggramar. When the void swallows a Worldsoul entirely there is no more hope…. The creature that emerged from the void-touched worldsoul…the horror was unspeakable.” So it sounds like a void titan was waking up on the world.
• Aggramar says if Sargeras found a worldsoul fall to the void, they should call the Pantheon to cleanse it. Sargeras tells Aggramar he decimated that void corrupted world entirely. He left nothing for the void to claim.
• Aggramar freaks out, cites what about its native lifeforms. Or if it was “The Prime”. Lili mentions its good Sargeras left Aggramar cuz he’d have instantly destroyed Azeroth if he was there when it was discovered.

The Confrontation with the Legion

• Algalon gave the lorewalkers this info. He received it when getting in touch with other Constellars post-Wrath.
• Covers the confrontation of the Pantheon and the now fel-scarred Sargeras who started the Legion. It is set at the Seat of the Pantheon. Aggramar asks Constellar to fight demons so Pantheon can talk him out of this.
• Pantheon tells Sargeras about Azeroth, which “could be the Prime” and defeat the Void Lords. Straight from Chronicle.
• Sargeras wants to destroy it, claiming if the Void seizes its power it will become something even greater than a Void Lord.
• Aggramar mentions their oaths to protect all creation. Aggramar says what were all their battles for if not fellowship. Sargeras kills him because the weight of all worlds sits on their shoulders.
• Sargeras mentions the Pantheon has no idea what they face and what he has shielded them from.

After their Fall & Antorus

• Lili confirms that Sargeras killed them and the fragments of their souls escaping from Chronicle. Lili sorta explains what happened after where Chronicle & Legion are unclear. “There, they inhabited the titan keepers that the Pantheon had tasked with watching over the world. Hidden away, they remained there for thousands of years…until Sargeras located their soul fragments and captured them, one by one.”
• So canonizes their tweets from Legion where it was suggested Sargeras found the soul fragments when they attacked Ulduar and other titan facilities during their attacks. He got the fragments from Azeroth. Presumably attacked Wrathion to get Aman’thuls.
• Lili seems to suggest Eonar escaped Antorus to her sanctuary in Legion. I guess to make it fit.
• We fight Aggramar and Argus. Lili has some narration in the Argus fight. She says that bound by Aman’thul, Argus sent his own twisted Constellars into battle to buy time and regain his strength.
• Ending note: “Yet, it’s clear that the titans care about Azeroth’s worldsoul above all else. We must not forget the re-origination we narrowly escaped. Despite all the good they have done for us, we must ask ourselves: is the Pantheon’s vision for our future all that different from what Sargeras desires?”

I was just catching up on some of the campaign missions the other night that I missed since I haven’t logged in a while. At one point one of the Blood Elf leaders(Sorry don’t remember who exactly) says “I never thought I’d miss the times when we could just throw orcs at the problem.”

So I’m just wondering, why aren’t the Alliance and Horde leadership more involved in the events?? Have they given any reason why it’s only elves, trolls and warriors of light showing up? I get that that those factions are the focus and the initial invasion happens quickly but Xal threatens all of Azeroth. Shouldn’t everyone on Azeroth be banding together at this point?

I liked in TWW post campaign when both sides forces show up near Dornogal. Did I miss something as to why the Alliance and Horde are only sending adventurers or is it just sub par writing to fit the Elf and Troll band together storyline?

Before TWW release there was a post claiming that the original plan was for TWW to be a stand alone expansion:

• Initially there were going to be 5 zones

• Alliance and Horde would've had a different leveling experience

• Alliance leveling experience would've been pretty much as it is now, with Isle of Dorne and most of Ringing deeps being Alliance leveling experience exclusively

• All Earthen settlements, including Dornagal would've been Alliance exclusive.

• The Horde, after the expansion intro would've been ambushed by Orwenna and the Haranir and teleported to Harandar (than called "Rootlands")

• Harandar would've been the first leveling to zone in the expansion for Horde exclusively

• Haranir would've had a full flagged Capital within Harandar and all Haranir settlements would've been Horde exclusively

• Stone and tech Earthen and nature Haranir would've shared deep rivalry and hostility, with history filled with lots of wars against one another

• Both facions would meet in the Ringing Deeps, 2nd leveling zone of the expansion for both, where the Alliance expereince would've been pretty much unchanged, while the Horde would befriend Kobolds and get their towns as their hubs

• Hallowfall and Azj-khahet would've been shared experience for both

• Alliance would've unlocked Earthen Allied race, and Horde Haranir

• Alliance and Horde would've unlocked their hubs in Harandar/Isle of Dorne during the max level Campaign, similar to BfA war campaign

• Nerubians were going to have a much larger role, connecting to Northrend and such

• 11.1 would've been heavily focused on the Aquir and Ki'trax raid

• Undermine would've been a side zone, not main story, akin to Mechagon

• The final raid and zone of the expansion 11.2 would've taken us to the world core and have us defend the World Soul, lots of Azerite stuff

• Initially Xal'atath wasn't gonna appear in the expansion at all, we would've met the villain during the leveling experience, but after Dragonflight was cut short Iridikron was also considered as a possible main villain

• Alleria wasn't gonna appear in the expansion at all, Alliance and Horde would've been represented with Anduin, Thrall, Jaina and Baine

Ever since I was a kid I've been in love with the Blood Elf aesthetic and lore. My brother is 8 years older than me and bought WoW when it first came out. I was 4 years old wiggling the mouse to ensure that the family computer wouldn't sleep while each disk installed. I then proceeded to mine and herb for my older brother until he allowed me to make my own character which was a Nelf hunter that I proceeded to get to like level 33 by the time TBC came out.

When TBC came out I was immediately enamored and enthralled with the Blood Elves, and I have been Horde since, nearly 20 years now. I was 7 then, as you can imagine I started actually understanding the world around me and how to actually play the game and this expac was the first that I reached max level in (Didn't raid till Wrath tho).

I read every quest text, every dialogue line, read everything I could to understand the lore and then went back to Warcraft 3 to see what led to this all.

The Sin'Dorei were SO cool. And yeah, I understand the criticism of not understanding why they chose the Horde over the alliance but I think Grand Marshal Garithos and his genocide in Dalaran may have had something to do with that, especially because my favorite character in all of WoW lore, and Grand Magister of Quel'Thelas, Rommath was literally there. I think that's often forgotten about. Rommath was there with Kael'Thas, literally as one of his advisors and confidants. He went to Outland to escape certain death. One of the few Characters around still that HAS been to outland.

Fast forward a little, Rommath comes back to Azeroth and he and Astalor (another cool as fuck character Blizzard is going to kill off probably) do one of the most insane magical feats in all of Warcraft in draining a Narru of it's light to give to their people as a power source. Creating the Blood Knights, with Liadrin as their Matriarch.

Liadrin's later remorse for this is well documented but is one of my favorite stories personally, M'uru 's core restoring the sunwell by way of Prophet Velen is something that is a core memory for most people here who care about the lore.

Liadrin would be a mainstay in Blood Elf representation in nearly every expac after, even when characters such as Halduron Brightwing, Grand Magister Rommath, and even Lor'Themar take the backseat. She was the rep for the lore I held so dear.

Legion comes along (lets not talk about WoD), and my god my love for the lore is reignited again. Holy shit what an expansion. Yes, not perfect. Tirion's death should've been handled better and there's a plethora of things I would've personally done differently with the Death Knight storyline (but that's a story for another time).

The blood elf lore was flowing in this expac, and their story with the Nightborne who had so many similarities really made me remember why I fell in love with the lore of this game. I can and did forgive some of the bad writing in Legion because the Highs were much much higher than the lows, and much higher than they've been since Wrath - at least for me personally.

The story between the Shal'Dorei and Sin'Dorei enthralled me, just like it did 10 years prior. And Lady Liadrin, once again was front and center.

For the sake of brevity of this already long post, I'm going to skip to midnight.

I was going to buy midnight, I haven't played Retail since Shadowlands (For obvious reasons) and I've kept up with the lore watching Nobbel and other lore youtubers because part of me still cares. Midnight being set in Quel'Thelas? Getting a revamp??? Then Blizzard unjustly closed my account on a false pretense lol. I was playing classic and got perma banned which they later said was a mistake. Took nearly two months to get unbanned and I lost out on Atiesh because of it. C'est la vie but I didn't feel like rewarding blizzard with my hard earned money after that.

But once again... I've been keeping up. My boy Rommath back in the limelight for the first time really since MoP and i've been loving it. As a Horde fanboy I've been a Ren'Dorei (Void Elf) hater, not because I don't think they should exist because I'm glad that Alliance finally got a version of High Elves to play as - but because of Umbric and the story regarding him. I always found him pompus and arrogant and wrong about many things. Rommath has a track record of being right - for example and not to rehash a contentious topic - but he planned for an eventual SECOND purge of Dalaran given the fact he was there for the first. His planning single handedly saved Aethas' and his Sunreavers' Asses.

And before you all go on about how I just said Umbric was pompous and arrogant but love Rommath, let me finish here. My favorite thing about Midnight has been Rommath and Umbric. They're cut from the same cloth and both are staunchly protective of what they believe in. Giving no ground to the opposition. Both had very valid points on why they believed what they did, Rommath was right to be cautious of Dar'Khan Drathir was working on, but Umbric was right in that there was ways to harness it that wasn't entirely bad.

Umbric getting his lab back in Silvermoon (that was left untouched btw) was the sort of wholesome that I wasn't expecting but loved. It added so much depth to a character that I already loved, and a character I didn't.

And then they do this. They kill off Liadrin. Why? Not sure.

People are rightfully calling out the quality of the writing regarding it, comparing it to Tirion, Cairne, Vol'jin.

But I just don't get it. I've criticized Blizzard's lack of risk taking for many years now. The need for councils instead of set leaders, letting cool titles lie dormant, and overwhelming need for friendship between the Horde and Alliance as a whole.

I hoped for risk taking in Midnight. I hoped the Amani and Sin'dorei would let bygones be bygones (with better writing lol), I hoped that Lor'themar would be crowned King of Quel'Thelas, finally letting go of all the Trauma both he and his people experienced all those years ago, agreeing to move forward. I hoped that Thaylssra likewise would be crowned Queen of her respective kingdom. I hoped that she and Rommath being the two most powerful mages horde side would allow their magisters to be a force to be reckoned with in future conflicts (Alliance or otherwise).

Brining back Kith'ix, something I thought would be cool turned out to be objectively a horribly written scenario, and not just because of Liadrin's death. Dear god was that awful to watch.

Someone in this subreddit said the lore of Midnight is not bad, per se, but its execution and delivery have at times been shadowlands-esque and I could not agree more.

I'm contributing very little to the actual conversation around Liadrin's death, but felt the need to share my thoughts regarding a character, and the overall lore I care about very much, 20 some years later.

The Horde losses:

• Cairne Dead, Vol'jin Dead, Garrosh Dead, Grommash 1-2 Dead, Saurfang Dead
• Thrall-Baine-Rokhan are disfunctional and exists for token purpose
• Thallysra had nearly 0 lore in the new expansion despite she is Queen-Regent (or whatever)
• Forsaken is led by Calia Menethil an Alliance representative
• The Goblins feels more neutral, despite Gazlowe is Horde.
• Eitrigg and Arathi are now besties.
• Syl is no longer vanas
• Liadrin cringed out

The Alliance losses:

• Varian Heroic Death, Tirion dead,
• Malfurion had the chance to die but swapped with Ysera for 5 mins
• Tyranda could have died in Ardenweald but was saved
• McTorque could have died in BfA but got better
• Magni could have died in TWW but just lost conciousness
• Khadgar could have died in TWW but was resurrected
• Alleria survived a blade into her spine and her soul sucked out and beng thrown into the Darkwell and falling to the core of the world (I mean she probably lives)
• Turalion also survived
• Anduin is sad.
• Jaina could have died in either Theramore or in Battle for Zuldazar but no.

At least Tharan Zhu survived MoP. Chad almost died like 5 times in the xpansion, lived through all of the mand also had time to deliver some of the most memorable speeches in the franchise.

I could bring up the shit writing too but it was proven with Forsaken Kingdom that they have the capacity to create good writing teams. They just dont do it for WoW but this does not explain WTF is going on with Horde getting murdered 1 by 1.

Light and shadow are the primordial cosmic forces behind the universe. Shadow comes from the Void, but is there a similar term for the realm of light, or is it just called the Light interchangeably with the "power" or "force" of light?

It seems like when Danath returned, they rounded up the surviving soldiers, retook Stromgarde keep, then brought in a bunch of Stormwind civilians to fill in for the population of Stromgarde, since there wasn't much of a civilian population left of Stromgarde. Then this potemkin village of a "kingdom" was used as a facade to exert alliance claims over Arathi Highlands.

We know when undead King Galen Trollbane broke away from the Forsaken to form his own little kingdom, it was stated most of the Stromgarde survivors at that point were undead.

Imagine if a nation was destroyed, only a few of its soldiers live, they retake the ruins of a military base, then bring in thousands of people from some other country and declare their nation is somehow "reborn".

Danath may be the legitimate heir of Stromgarde, but his people no longer exist.

And before some one brings up the red dawn, it was stated the vast majority of its members came from Lordaeron, Stormwind and Alterac. Not to mention, we also killed a lot of them, then they were exiled from Arathi Highlands.

1. Instead of Dranosh, Varok Saurfang is the one who dies at the hands of Arthas at the Wrathgate fighting alongside Bolvar, and is eventually resurrected and has to be permanently killed during the raid on Icecrown Citadel.

Or…

1. Dranosh still dies at the Wrathgate and becomes Deathbringer Saurfang, but like how Bolvar managed to survive being burned by dragonfire (albeit permanently changed and having to become the new Lich King after Arthas’ death), Dranosh is ultimately freed from the Lich King’s control and becomes a liberated death knight like the player class and members of the Ebon Blade.

Where did you get this? I haven't seen a plant like this since a sojourn I made to the Swamp of Sorrows... decades ago! It's amazing that a specimen made its way to Teldrassil. And it's grown to such a size!

Thank you, <name>. Forgive my shortness of words, but there is a test I would like to perform on this frond...

It's probably a quest writer oversight but I find it interesting on face value, that this guy might have visited a land that no other knew, perhaps through Emerald Dream or crossing the sea and was doing stuff there before the Orcish Horde came.

Considering most forsaken priests are shadow priests to the point it's their main religion I'm wondering how the constant connection to the void is handled by an undead mind vs the living. Like would their muted senses be better at dealing with it? As well I am wondering if it messes with their bodies in some ways, since the light has a strong effect on them.

Direct quote by Thrall in the title, from the first mission of wc3.

So how did that happen? Why would Thrall resent the Forest Trolls? Maybe I am a bit trollbrained but it was Old Horde that let the Trolls down in the Quelthalas campaign, no? Is this kinda like passing the blame or did Doomhammer have a dislike of Zul'jin?

For me, the Alliance-Horde squabbling and skirmishes during Wrath of the Lich King made me want to tear my hair out. Yes, diplomatic relations got badly strained, but when you’re facing arguably one of the largest existential threats to all of Azeroth and you’re operating in a frozen continent without much in the form of resources, you don’t needlessly get your men killed squabbling over resources and attacking each other while simultaneously storming Icecrown Citadel!

They gave us a character death WORSE than Vol'jin's.

Bravo blizzard entertainment