r/collapse • • Jan 26 '22

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u/gthaatar Jan 26 '22

Yeah, see this is my line of reasoning. The world is in a bad state, but its also in a state that is very, very different from collapses of yesteryear.

And in fact, Im inclined to argue that as far as civilization is concerned, total collapse can only happen if all technology and recorded knowledge gets wiped, and theres not a lot of ways for that to happen that isn't going to preclude humans continuing as a species anyway.

Most likely, what we'll see is more akin to a post WW2 Europe, but worldwide and with whoever comes out on top being whoever can still produce food in substantive quantities, which will likely be the US, South America, and Africa.

But insofar as going primitive? Not gonna happen without a nuclear war or mass death beyond what humanity could even recover from.

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '22 edited Feb 18 '26

[deleted]

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u/gthaatar Jan 26 '22

Climate modelling puts the U.S firmly into complete agricultural failure.

Do you have an actual source for this because the examples you listed don't count.

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '22 edited Feb 18 '26

[deleted]

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u/gthaatar Jan 26 '22

"Reality" isnt a citation. Source your shit.

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u/paper_shoes Jan 26 '22

Lol idk why you're getting downvoted for asking for sources. <sigh>

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u/gthaatar Jan 26 '22

A lot of people on the sub aren't all that intelligent. An unfortunate circumstance when doomerism without sources is just allowed.

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u/[deleted] Jan 27 '22

[deleted]

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u/gthaatar Jan 27 '22

Pro-tip: I wasnt asking for sourced because Im denying collapse. I asked for sources because posting idiotic doomer shit undermines the entire point of being aware.

Don't assume shit just because you're being asked for sources.

I'm not going to source every god damned thing I've ever read or I'd spend hours finding every single article, adding in links, formatting, etc.

Ie, you're lazy.

The reason you've been downvoted so heavily isn't because "doomerism".

You're right; it's because I'm not circlejerking

It's simply because what I said is largely self evident.

It isnt, actually, or collapse awareness wouldn't be a thing.

It stinks of intellectual dishonesty and someone who isn't willing to have an open or honest discussion.

The irony.

Why do you think the U.S is going to be in a good position agriculturally?

The US isn't going to experience collapse homogenously, and to suggest so illustrates you aren't actually synthesizing your sources, which all read like they came off a google search given, again, your unwillingness to synthesize.

And more than that, the issues that the US is going to face agriculturally have more to do with our unsustainable farming methods that are not going to be possible to continue, not with a flat out inability to grow anything.

You literally linked an article talking about a new Dust Bowl; do you actually know what caused the dust bowl? It wasnt just heat; we fucked the soil and destroyed the grasses that kept it healthy. The former isn't necessarily anything anyone can do something about, but the latter absolutely is, and it will be done one way or another.

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u/[deleted] Jan 27 '22

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u/whiskeyromeo Jan 26 '22

Its entirely possible that no one will be able to provide food in substantive quantities. Chaotic climate may preclude it, and lack of fossil fuels and their infrastructure may preclude it

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u/gthaatar Jan 26 '22

Chaotic climate may preclude it

Meaningless nonsense is meaningless.

and lack of fossil fuels and their infrastructure may preclude it

In a transitory period, sure, but not in the long term.

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u/whiskeyromeo Jan 26 '22

Ok, we'll just tell the wheat that 6 months of blistering heat and no water, followed by immediate torrential rain and flooding is just meaningless nonsense, and not to worry about it

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u/gthaatar Jan 26 '22

Okay but what about the massive lightning storms followed by super volcanoes????

See, its easy to just make shit up when you aren't citing anything and just insisting X thing will happen.

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u/whiskeyromeo Jan 26 '22

I didn't insist anything. I said it's entirely possible. And I didn't cite anything because the the impacts of climate change on agriculture are regularly talked about here. I'm not sure if you're a climate change denier, or if you're one of those "longer growing season" people. But i really dont care to convince you that climate change is real and is likely to fuck the worlds agriculture. So, dont worry friend, everything will be fine, and humans will colonize Mars soon

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u/gthaatar Jan 26 '22

I said it's entirely possible.

Which is a cop out. Source your shut.

And I didn't cite anything because the the impacts of climate change on agriculture are regularly talked about here.

Doesn't matter. Cite it.

I'm not sure if you're a climate change denier, or if you're one of those "longer growing season" people

Neither. Source your shit.

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u/whiskeyromeo Jan 26 '22

Nah. I was just trying to have a friendly conversation, which is why i brought up a possibility. But you're kind of an asshole, so I dont exactly feel motivated to put together a masters thesis for you. Have a nice day

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u/gthaatar Jan 26 '22

which is why i brought up a possibility.

Again, cop out. Misinformation doesn't get a free pass, so cite your shit.

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u/whiskeyromeo Jan 26 '22

Here is a starter. The World's Food Supply is Made Insecure by Climate Change. Maybe I'll come back after work with some specifics on why I think the agriculture situation might be more dire than that UN article states

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u/Fins_FinsT Recognized Contributor Jan 28 '22

But insofar as going primitive? Not gonna happen without a nuclear war or mass death beyond what humanity could even recover from.

History tells exactly the opposite. There were many great civilizations of the past, which collapsed, and what remained after them - is barbarians. Named so for their barbaric - indeed quite very primitive - ways.