"Americentricity" by Itchy Feet

[u/tinyviewcomics]

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[u/VengeanceKnight]

Also, America is a big-ass country with many different cultures and regions. You can be surprisingly well-traveled without even stepping outside of America.

[u/loyal_achades → u/VengeanceKnight]

Also massively varied geographies.

[u/PowerfulJoeF → u/VengeanceKnight]

Just came back from vacation and it took us 8 hours to drive from California to California. If you’re trying to drive across Texas then you’re about halfway there.

[u/alphaxion → u/PowerfulJoeF]

Going home for Christmas when I lived in Brighton would take 1 hr by train to London followed by another 6 hours on a coach out of London up to Leeds. And you'd still be about 3 hours away from reaching Scotland. 7 hours to go from England to England. Could have been around 5hrs if I had paid to go the whole way by train.

Why do people from North America seem to think that no-one in Europe travels longer than an hour in any direction? There are only about 15 states bigger than the UK, what really affects your perception is that the UK has the same population as California and Texas combined.

[u/fastsailor → u/PowerfulJoeF]

Really? Texas is so small you can drive from the Gulf of Mexico to Oklahoma in an afternoon. Distances in the US seem pretty short to me. If you think long driving distances are somehow good, come out here to Australia or visit Canada. Australia is about the same size as the 48 states but has less than 10% of the population, so everything is very spread out, with great distances between towns. Long driving distances is not a virtue, it ia a pain.

[u/DefNotReaves → u/fastsailor]

You’re calling Texas small by comparing the drive south to north? Not east to west? lol you know it’s longer than it is tall, right?

I can get from the coast of California to Nevada in about 5 hours… but then it’ll take me 12+ hours to get to Oregon.

Disingenuous argument lmao

[u/PowerfulJoeF → u/DefNotReaves]

Yup I can speak from experience, from LA to Vegas is 4 - 5 hours depending on your stops and took us about 12 to get to just inside of Oregon.

[u/DefNotReaves → u/PowerfulJoeF]

I made my comment out of personal experience too lol

I definitely make more stops on my way to Oregon than I do to Vegas 🤣

[u/wsteelerfan7 → u/fastsailor]

Gulf of Mexico to Oklahoma is the shortest distance across the state unless you do the northern part of the state and it's about 7 hours to get there. Even then, you aren't getting to some place worth a damn anyway. The city I threw into google maps had a population of 5,166 people. Oklahoma has 827 cities and 590 of them are under 1,000 people. 473 of them are under 500. Only 47/827 have over 10,000 people.

Heck, in Nevada, there's a famous sign that warns you that the next gas station is in 179 miles.

[u/EarthRester → u/fastsailor]

I have a theory that the way the US populations are spread out plays a large part in the "overly friendly" nature Americans have a reputation for. It's just in everyone's best interests to get along with everyone in your community because ain't nobody else around for a while. This was even more so the case when during early colonialism when people were going west into fuck knows where.

[u/boltgenerator → u/VengeanceKnight]

Driving from the bottom of my US state to the top is the same distance as going from Budapest to Berlin with the added bonus of passing through a much wider range of geographical diversity.

[u/NovelNothing5374 → u/VengeanceKnight]

Exactly. Like I live in the crossroads of America, if I got 7 hours south(a weekend trip in a car) I’m in complete different cultures like the Smokies/south. Each state imo has its own culture even though we are all American. Like my state,Indiana, is not the same as say Washington or Oregon. Completely different cultures.

[u/Lonely-Toe9877 → u/NovelNothing5374]

I've lived in several states. The difference in cultures are not that big.

[u/AdDifficult3794 → u/Lonely-Toe9877]

Just because you lived in the state doesn't mean you absorbed or understand the differences. All your saying to us that do recognize the differences and nuance is that you were completely ignorant to it.

[u/fastsailor → u/NovelNothing5374]

Maybe you should travel to Europe, South America or Asia and you might begin to understand what "completely different cultures" actually means.

[u/NovelNothing5374 → u/fastsailor]

Been to Africa/Europe/Central America. This isn’t some gotcha like you think it is 🤣

[u/Puzzleheaded_Fix594 → u/NovelNothing5374]

American culture isn't that disparate. There's regional differences, but you're not going to be completely out of your element going from the PNW to New England.

[u/NovelNothing5374 → u/Puzzleheaded_Fix594]

You’d be shocked when my in laws from the PNW feel like my middle west town is a foreign entity or when I take my rural family out to Seattle…

[u/Puzzleheaded_Fix594 → u/NovelNothing5374]

That's urban vs rural divides, not dividing things by region. A person from Minneapolis probably has quite a lot in common with someone from Seattle. You can find those same kind of differences in countries like Poland or Japan.

[u/stonednarwhal141 → u/Puzzleheaded_Fix594]

Dallas is a lot different from Portland, OR. Some stuff is urban/rural but a lot is just genuinely different states with different cultures and laws regardless of whether you’re in a city or not

[u/Puzzleheaded_Fix594 → u/stonednarwhal141]

Sure but it's kind of being exaggerated here a bit. Our main cultural divide in the United States is the South and the North.

There's small regional differences, but it's not as stark as it would be in Europe traveling from France to Spain. Where American cultural differences get more interesting are the vast amount of different subcultures we have. There's Black Americans and Hispanic Americans (and even Cubans are different than Tejanos). That's where you start seeing more cultural differences.

There's also the whole American monoculture thing. You can drive through much of the United States and it'll all feel familiar. Having been all over the country, the only state that feels drastically different from the rest of the United States is Hawaii which makes sense because it's a series of islands.

That's not to say that America isn't beautiful. It's an incredible country to drive through (specifically the South Western US and places like the UP in Michigian), but you're never going to feel that out of place as an American in other parts of America. Part of that is due, in part, to the fact that we all speak the same language. You sort of realize how similar all of America feels when traveling abroad and experiencing people with drastically different life styles to your own. Hell, ever our regional accents aren't as numerous as a place like the UK.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Fix594 → u/[deleted]]

Kentucky and Texas are pretty similar culturally. If you're talking about the fauna, well, the US is an incredible country for biodiversity. Crazy to think that we have deserts in Nevada which are the total opposite of Northern New England.

[u/apackoflemurs → u/Puzzleheaded_Fix594]

Coming from the Midwest to Pacific Northwest was a big and welcomed change.

[u/VengeanceKnight → u/[deleted]]

I am curious regarding on what you base that judgement.

[u/Charming-Clock-3651 → u/VengeanceKnight]

The fact that no matter where you go on the US, you are all part of the same country, have the same cultural heritage, speak the same language and have the same laws. That's completely different to say going from France to Spain, which is less distance than travelling the US but things are completely different. The only people who think travelling in America makes you well travelled are Americans who have not left America.

[u/Normal-Pie7610 → u/Charming-Clock-3651]

Speak the same language? Talk to somebody from the border in Texas, Cajun Louisiana, Atlanta, Delco Philly, NYC, Cleveland, Madison, WI, anywhere Montana, Seattle, and San Diego. It may all be "english" but I've asked half those places to write it out.

My mom tried to move from her birthplace in New Jersey to North Carolina just a 1 day drive away. She gave up after when she tried getting her license changed because she couldn't understand anybody in the DMV and moved back to New Jersey.

Culture heritage is also based on where somebody grew up. I grew up in New Jersey. I learned a lot about British colonization and the atrocious done to the natives. My kids grew up in Florida and they learned more about the Spanish.

The laws are also different from state to state. It's illegal to pump your own gas in Jersey. Some states allow fireworks. One of the biggest problems in the US right now is the 2 party political system and that half the states don't agree with the laws in the other half. Federal law may overrule state law but it doesn't cover everything. Hell, some states are actively fighting against federal law. It's practically a Cold Civil War.

Say the US is the same from border to border is insane. The only the the east coast and west coast have in common is beaches and the north and south don't even share time zones after a few hour drive.

If people in Texas don't like hoagie spread on a sandwich and people in Jersey can't handle hot sauce on a taco, that's a difference in culture. It's all the same ingredients just prepared differently for different foods.

[u/Charming-Clock-3651 → u/Normal-Pie7610]

Buddy, you are describing a light version of the regional dialect differences that you see within the UK, which change so much within 20km that you can pinpoint what town (not city) someone is from by how they speak... and that is just one small slice of Europe. There are 56 regionals dialects in the UK alone, Vs 30 in America. It's apples to oranges and I don't think Americans who are not well travelled can really understand the differences. European countries are as different as the US and Argentina, state to state is not a comparison...

[u/apackoflemurs → u/Charming-Clock-3651]

I like how you respond to the easy comment and ignore the hard ones

[u/Normal-Pie7610 → u/apackoflemurs]

To be fair to them. I made my comment about the different dialects, ate a slice of pizza, and got mad about it again, so came back and added more.

[u/Normal-Pie7610 → u/[deleted]]

Microwaved truck stop style. Imagine Italian style but made by meth heads and cooked under a bug zapper... and then I microwaved it.

[u/Charming-Clock-3651 → u/apackoflemurs]

What are you referring to?

[u/Normal-Pie7610 → u/Charming-Clock-3651]

Sure but I had an easier time picking up words and phrases from our interpreter in Afghanistan than I did trying to order a burger in Alabama.

[u/Ill_Morning_4282 → u/Charming-Clock-3651]

"have the same cultural heritage"

We don't, different parts of the country have different immigrant histories, my family comes from a part of the country that was made up from people that came over in the 1800's from Germany, people still spoke German til the 40s.

[u/Charming-Clock-3651 → u/[deleted]]

Those differences exist in every country you dolt. That's not unique to America....

[u/Charming-Clock-3651 → u/[deleted]]

No, you somehow missed the point entirely. Each region in every country in the world has as much difference in it's regions as US states. Devon and London in England are just as different as Texas and new York, every country has those differences within the country that you are arguing is 'different culture', we would just never argue it's different culture because we have actually seen what different cultures look like when visiting other countries, and it's on a completely different level.

Liverpool and cambridge are completely different in pretty much every way (much more so than anywhere in the US to be honest, they were literally different countries at one point), but I can understand that they are still fundamentally part of the same culture and are English. I would never be stupid enough to argue that they are somehow culturally distinct in the way France and England are..

[u/Charming-Clock-3651 → u/Ill_Morning_4282]

Right, but that's not your countries cultural heritage... I'm talking general nation wide culture not specific people. You all have the same constitution and federal laws, you have a national religion and a national language. If you want to get into that kind of heritage then it's definitely not an argument you are going to win considering the history of Europe vs the US...

[u/c_dawg694x2 → u/Charming-Clock-3651]

We do not have a national language, nor do we have a national religion.

[u/Charming-Clock-3651 → u/[deleted]]

Your second largest religion is Judaism which makes up just 2% of the population... Christianity is the clear de facto religion in the US, to the point that your presidents feel the need to state their Christian values as part of their run at office....

[u/Charming-Clock-3651 → u/c_dawg694x2]

Of course not, you just have a massive majority that speak English and practice Christianity :)

[u/apackoflemurs → u/Charming-Clock-3651]

I live in Seattle and the amount of diversity here is enough that the trains run the same message in like 4 different languages. It's extremely different here than where I grew up in iowa. Different people, different language exposures, different lifestyles, different foods, different social norms, different hobbies. States have wildly different laws and backgrounds and priorities.

Like, have you ever been to the US or are you just making assumptions?

[u/Charming-Clock-3651 → u/apackoflemurs]

I can almost guarantee I've travelled A LOT more of the US than you have Europe and tbh I've possibly travelled more of the US than you have as well... Europeans are generally more travelled and I've been to the US something like 14 or 15 times. I've actually been to Seattle multiple times, but in terms of states ive done both coasts as road trips, the first I travelled from Vancouver into the US, travelled to Washington and then all the way down to Arizona, and on the other side I did Boston to Miami. I've got family in montana who previously lived in Michigan, and I've travelled around Michigan to Ohio and west Virginia. I've also done a few work trips to Texas although mainly dallas.

[u/apackoflemurs → u/Charming-Clock-3651]

Woah you're a big boy!

[u/Charming-Clock-3651 → u/[deleted]]

But if you want to make that argument, you are comparing 300 year old America with 3000 year old UK culture, so obviously it's not even close when compared to even 1 country, let alone all of Europe.

[u/Charming-Clock-3651 → u/[deleted]]

Because you are in no way related to the European countries that you left behind. America's culture is so being crafted, but generally it's a pretty low culture nation and at odds with Europe in that regard. You don't get to claim European culture in the same way that I wouldn't claim french or danish culture as someone from the UK...

[u/poopoopooyttgv → u/Charming-Clock-3651]

National religion? lol man. That’s like saying Europe has a continental religion, you’re all some denomination of Christian right? Who cares about the details, I’m sure you all get along fine

America famously had a civil war about federal laws vs states rights. The ramifications of it are still felt today

[u/Charming-Clock-3651 → u/poopoopooyttgv]

Europe does have a general continental religion yes..that's pretty obviously Christianity, although generally Europe would actually be described as non religous...It also has a far more diverse mix of other religions that are much more prevalent than America, where Judaism is the second largest and only 2% of the population...

[u/fastsailor → u/Ill_Morning_4282]

Still American though...

[u/Kyokenshin → u/Charming-Clock-3651]

you are all part of the same country

Technically yes but that’s what this discussion is about. The distinction between countries in the EU is relatively similar to the distinction of states in the US.

have the same cultural heritage

Not really. I’m from the American SW and wouldn’t say I identify culturally with anyone outside of Southern CA/NM/NV/AZ. There are obviously national commonalities but I think people from the south, or New England, or the Midwest are strange. Odd fashion, odd idioms, odd habits. They likely think the same of me.

speak the same language

Sometimes. We don’t have a national language so it’s not true depending on where you’re at. In The modern world with media and the internet it’s becoming less pronounced but there are regions in the US that I would struggle to communicate in(granted less so than going to France and not speaking French)

have the same laws

Holy shit very much not true. I can smoke weed or get an abortion in one state where another one would incarcerate me for long periods of time for the same actions. We don’t even have the same traffic laws from state to state…

I say all of this as someone who regularly leaves the country and is well traveled. For all of the shit we get for our global ignorance, the rest of the world sees us as a monolith because their only real exposure is our media which only shows California, Texas, and New York. If it shows anywhere else in the US it’s likely just what some rich guy from California thinks that place is like.

Americans are well traveled because we have everything everyone else has, except it’s all within our national borders(except a competent government, someone send help). There’s a reason the World Cup was so eye opening for those visiting us.l, y’all don’t actually know shit about America.

[u/AdDifficult3794 → u/Kyokenshin]

These are the facts. Saying all Americans have the same heritage is crazy talk.

[u/MarkRemington → u/Charming-Clock-3651]

Don't explain regional BBQ sauce arguments to the commenter above me.

[u/GijZijtAllereedeDoet → u/MarkRemington]

Now I'm intrigued.

[u/stonednarwhal141 → u/GijZijtAllereedeDoet]

Different parts of the country have different styles of BBQ sauce. Carolina is mustard based, Texas is vinegar, etc. The most ubiquitous is probably Kansas City style which is sweeter

[u/Coruscare → u/stonednarwhal141]

Carolina style is fiercely split east vs west as well.

[u/stonednarwhal141 → u/Coruscare]

Oh I didn’t know that. What’s the difference?

[u/Coruscare → u/stonednarwhal141]

Its partially the bases and partially what sort of meat they use!

The mustard base is actually south Carolinian, north carolina uses a vinegar and pepper for east and west uses tomato and vinegar :)

I grew up with Western NC and south carolina BBQ both ^{.^}

[u/fastsailor → u/Charming-Clock-3651]

Hit the nail on the head!

[u/Yorick257 → u/[deleted]]

I've been to 10+ EU countries (from beyond the Polar circle to the very south), and even though it's technically quite a diverse range, there really isn't much of a difference either. Sure, languages are different, but I spoke English everywhere anyway. Buildings are different (stone and clay in the south, wood in the north), but that's kinda normal. I would assume it's similar in the US. And then some countries prefer wine over beer. But everyone eats potatoes. Everyone has eggs. Butter, ham, pizza, burgers, pasta - it's all the same.

The biggest difference is geographic. In the north, you have polar nights and days. And in the south, the Sun just plops in and out of existence. The climate is different. Plants are different. There are no parrots in Finland.

[u/urbantechgoods → u/VengeanceKnight]

Geographically yes, culturally, ehh. You have to travel very far to get changes in culture. And they aren’t that big because there’s not enough history to substantiate it, at least when you compare it to countries like Indonesia or India, different languages, religions, traditions, customs, history, etc

[u/Charming-Clock-3651 → u/VengeanceKnight]

The only people who think travelling in America makes you well travelled are other Americans who've never left America. It's so different from going to a different country that it's not really even comparable.

I've travelled all over America, multiple times, and the different states are basically just all varieties of the same flavour. It's not even close to the difference between even adjacent European countries. Alaska and new York still have a lot more in common than England and France.

[u/fastsailor → u/Charming-Clock-3651]

Yes, there is an underlying sameness about it. Yes, Dallas is different to New York, Boston, Seattle or San Francisco, but you see the same foods, the same media, the same sports, the same stores. The variations are pretty mild.

[u/Lonely-Toe9877 → u/VengeanceKnight]

Eh, the cultural differences between state lines in America aren't THAT big unless you are traveling coast to coast. Yes, the difference between NYC and LA or Louisiana Cajun country and the pacific northwest west may be big, but most culture stays the same between most state borders. There really is no difference between Texas and Oklahoma culture (only difference is in landscape), or between the North and South Dakota. It's not like hopping on a train in Europe where a 2-3 hour ride can make you feel like you're on another planet.

[u/AdDifficult3794 → u/[deleted]]

I was about to say this. Saying someone from north Alabama is the same as south Alabama is a good way to get your socks knocked off

[u/Lonely-Toe9877 → u/[deleted]]

No I won't. I'm from Texas. Texans aren't as tough as you think they are. I've also lived in Oklahoma. It's the same redneck cukture on both sides. And the cultural differences within Texas are not that big. They are very minor compared to the changes you see within Europe, but within the same distance/time traveled.

[u/loyal_achades → u/Lonely-Toe9877]

North Texas and non-reservation Oklahoma are pretty similar, but like North Texas vs Austin vs Rio Grande are all pretty different, and then you have the reservations in OK that are quite different as well.

[u/Lonely-Toe9877 → u/loyal_achades]

I'm from the Rio Grande (born in Harlingen) and have lived in Austin, DFW, and currently in Houston. The differences are not that big. Yes, you can note some differences, but I wouldn't really consider that being well traveled or having experiences with different cultures. The differences are very small (outside of reservation you mentioned).

[u/fastsailor → u/loyal_achades]

You are trying to dance on the head of a pin. They are all merely variations of American culture.

[u/loyal_achades → u/fastsailor]

And France and Spain are both variations of Western European Romance Culture.

The US is a country of over 300 million people with a geography larger than the EU and immigrant communities from all over the world. There’s going to be significant cultural variation because of that.

[u/Neokon → u/Lonely-Toe9877]

Just visit Florida. Where I'm from you cross the interstate and go from the Mid-West to the Deep-South

[u/Lonely-Toe9877 → u/Neokon]

The difference between mid west and deep south cultures is not as big as you think it is.

[u/AdDifficult3794 → u/Lonely-Toe9877]

Ha! Thats crazy. Thats like saying the French aren't different from the British.

[u/Lonely-Toe9877 → u/AdDifficult3794]

Lol, the difference between south and midwest culture is nothing like the difference between French and British. Have you actually traveled outside the U.S?

[u/fastsailor → u/Neokon]

Which are both American, no?

[u/Neokon → u/fastsailor]

What??? You mean a joke about cultural lines in a US state is in America??? Holy shit I wish I known that!!!

[u/Old-Tip-69 → u/Lonely-Toe9877]

Even traveling coast to coast it isnt that different. Not as different as going to a whole new country

[u/Lonely-Toe9877 → u/Old-Tip-69]

I agree. The differences are not that big. The only place I have traveled to within the U.S that seemed like I traveled to another world was Cajun country in Louisiana.

[u/fastsailor → u/VengeanceKnight]

It is all America mate, they are just regional variations. You all speak the same language, have the same stores, the same sporting leagues, salute the same flag etc etc.

[u/dk_peace → u/[deleted]]

What do you mean when you say the US has no culture? We have artists creating new and interesting music, art, literature, movies, and games. Those things permeate throughout the zeitgeist. I really don't understand what you mean by that statement. Objectively, it rings false

[u/guyute2588 → u/[deleted]]

Are you under the impression those cultures are homogenous?

This is such a profoundly ridiculous distinction to make.

[u/Penumbral_Violet → u/guyute2588]

No I’m giving those as examples of the biggest influences of the US.

[u/guyute2588 → u/Penumbral_Violet]

Why do yon think those cultures are homogenous?

[u/dk_peace → u/[deleted]]

If synthesizing old ideas from the past and from across the world into new art doesnt make culture, then no one on Earth has had a culture in centuries. Also, other countries are influenced by our language, food, architecture, and art as well. English didnt become the most spoken language on Earth because of the British. Ranch dressing is a uniquely American flavor. The first modern skyscraper was built in Chicago. Superman is a recognizable across the globe.

[u/Walkingdrops → u/[deleted]]

I agree with your first point, but god do I fucking hate it when people say that the US doesn't have any culture, because it is by definition completely false.

[u/Drakath2812 → u/Walkingdrops]

Yeah I'm not an American, and do not live there, but it is patently untrue. The states totally have a unique culture, just because America dominates global media output, everyone seems to think that American culture isn't unique, it is, you just get exposed to elements of it more often than you do, say, Belgium, as a random example.

The USA's media is just a fraction of the culture it has, and yes, some of that culture is hyper consumerism, capitalism, big trucks and guns, they're a bit stereotypical, but they are definitionally part of a broader culture. If you actually go (as I have been lucky enough to) and visit a variety of states, you quickly realise that they are pretty damn different from the rest of the world, you know - because its got its own people, history, and culture.

[u/Complete-Meet1992 → u/Drakath2812]

I think a lot of people discount American culture because it includes things that come from Britain and Germany primarily.

[u/Drakath2812 → u/Complete-Meet1992]

I do get that instinct, but like, all cultures are evolutions of pre-existing cultures and ideas. The thing that makes the USA's culture, is the mixture of what it kept from those large diasporas, and how they blended to become one thing. New York City is prime cultural melting pot, it's a city that has a unique vibe when compared to other large cities, like say, London or Paris, entirely because of the specific mix of people who moved there, and the time at which they did. And every other city in the world is also a result of that kind of evolution of ideas, but with different starting conditions. Seems unfair that just because the states did it more recently than most they get discredited completely.

[u/Penumbral_Violet → u/Drakath2812]

Idk, every foreign person I’ve ever met has told me that the US has no culture so I’ve internalized it

[u/Different-Eagle-612 → u/Penumbral_Violet]

i mean it’s like saying americans have no accent — it’s a nonsense statement. it was however definitely a popular tumblr sentiment around like… i don’t know 2016-ish?

there is a ton of culture in the us and i highly encourage you explore more

[u/Penumbral_Violet → u/Different-Eagle-612]

I’ve been all over the US

[u/Different-Eagle-612 → u/Penumbral_Violet]

then i genuinely don’t know how you came by this opinion. there are shared similarities for sure but… god i don’t know maybe you’re just sticking to the main tourist spots in a city?? i do genuinely wonder if that tumblr-esque “american has no culture” statement was subconsciously influencing you