r/germany • u/CalicoDesertOasis • 3d ago

WHAT is going on with the milk here?

I just moved to Germany (Köln) this week from London. I bought a bottle of milk and it is the most delicious milk I've ever had in my life.

Usually I only put milk in tea and use it for nothing else, but I keep going back to the fridge for another sip of delicious German milk.

I'm surprised it's so different to milk in the UK! Does anyone know why?

1.5k Upvotes

93% Upvoted

934 comments sorted by

View all comments

4

u/Kate_Birdie 3d ago

I appreciate this post. My brother and I are Americans who live in Germany. Both of our husbands are German and think we're weird for how much we love German milk. We say it tastes good because they're happy cows. I would assume the quality has to do with Germans really not accepting less from their food. I know Germany has strict rules and regulations about what you can and cannot put in food and beverages. I would think thats the reason why. The milk in America is tastless until the end with a sour after taste. The cheese is plastic, I am sure.

35

u/No_Pay2356 3d ago

I can assure that the cows for milk that is in grocery stores are not happy

6

u/Deep_Dance8745 3d ago

Used to work on a dairy farm in Belgium, cows were very happy. Easy to tell when they are and are not.

Not sure how you can make those statements, except for parroting some ngo flyers.

1

u/Name-ne 2d ago

And how do YOU arrive at your claim? Were the cows allowed a choice?

1

u/Deep_Dance8745 1d ago

1st hand experience, not flyers and pamflets.

0

u/ynotbln 3d ago

You know why cows give milk? How could they be happy?

1

u/DetectiveOverall2460 3d ago

Biology and managed evolution.

-1

u/Substantial-Air843 3d ago

Managed evolution like impregnating them everytime by hand and removing their child from them as soon as its born, nice sounds like nature to me

1

u/DetectiveOverall2460 3d ago

Yeah, as long as the happy cow produces more calbs than the unhappy cow cows naturaly develop to be happy with it. Evolution is really nice that way, it just also works the other way around see ducks or dolphins.

2

u/Name-ne 2d ago

That sure is in the top ten of idiotic statements I've read in the last months.

You enjoy raping, do you?

1

u/joyful_Swabian_267 1d ago

Do you have an ounce of biological knowledge? Domestiated animals have different requirements to be happy than wild ones. That is what domestication means, it is special kind of evolutionary adaptation to living with humans.

If you would rise a wild form of cattle and try to handle it or milk it, it would attack you or at least be very shy and aggressive despite being handraised. Domesticated animals were selected for being less aggressive and more trusting, they also have less need to move around. Whereas wild animals cover many kilometres daily, domesticated animals are far more sedentary and "lazy/chill".

Doesn't justify factory farming, but equating farming per se as slavery is rather dumb. Farming was for most of its history a symbiosis, were every species included profited. Even ants do farm aphids, so we humans are not even the only ones.

-1

u/Curt_Dukis 3d ago

this..is not how any of this works

0

u/Substantial-Air843 2d ago

So as long as we keep breeding slaves, those humans will accept it and be happy because of evolution?

0

u/yazanov47 2d ago

Ragebait or simply low iq? 😂

0

u/CaptServo 3d ago

Oh the Belgian cows only smoked a half a pack of cigarettes a day?

0

u/No_Pay2356 2d ago

Was it cheap dairy for supermarkets or some more expensive organic milk? Rozghly 99% of farm animals are factory farmed.

1

u/Deep_Dance8745 2d ago

In the USA maybe, majority of cows in Belgium and Holland are on pastures not in factories.

2

u/Fellkartoffel 3d ago

This. Organic milk is from only moderatly suffering cows, normal milk is definitely from terribly unhappy cows. Our regulations regarding food quality is very high, though.

0

u/hardtdan 3d ago

Compared to what? From an american cows perspective, the grass may...exist on the other side.

6

u/Irish618 3d ago

Cattle are way more likely to be grass fed in the US than in Europe. The US still has the open land to do it large scale.

Not saying there arent grass fed cattle in Germany, theres certainly some. Just that a higher portion are in the US.

1

u/joyful_Swabian_267 1d ago

Depends on wether they are beef or dairy cattle. Beef cattle are more rsised in the open in the US, but with dairy cattle I'm not sure.

0

u/Name-ne 2d ago

Question is, are the grass lands good for cows producing milk.

3

u/Australisa19 3d ago

If you appreciate milk I recommend eggs from a small flock in the garden. Also local honey from your neighborhood. Not much more expensive but better taste. I sell our own eggs and honey and get that as a feedback from our local customers.

3

u/VirtuousRen 3d ago

Fellow American here, I too love German milk. It’s so much tastier than what we have in the states!!

5

u/Academic-Balance6999 3d ago

I lived in Switzerland and we often shopped in Germany. I found Swiss and German milk tasted identical to the milk I buy in California. It may be that all three places have a lot of pasture-raised dairy cows— in some other parts of the US dairy cows are kept indoors.

1

u/Rynchinoi 3d ago edited 1d ago

In Germany most of the cows are indoors. They see the light 2 times in life, first when they are born, and second on the way to the butcher

1

u/Name-ne 2d ago

That's not for many years though, but several cow lifetimes, certainly. Very deplorable. Farmers prefer to grow corn and feed their cows silage..

1

u/Rynchinoi 1d ago

Profit maximisation

7

u/scrandlle 3d ago

..... happy cows?

Do you envisions farmers with a bucket here milking cows? They are dairy cows slammed into pens with suction machines put on their nipples. They forcefully impregnated with the babies taken away as soon as possible, over and over, to keep them in a state of constant milk production.

3

u/Opening-Nature1148 2d ago

The secound farm is, true even tho as soon AS possible by german Farmer law is more appropriate, The mothers usually have a grace period.

germany is Quite small, there are some a little more premium milks that usually vome from The Region and you can go visit. 

The cows usually have a great life, not insane amout of space but they look like happy cows to me. In austria The milk is even better but goddamn The cows life there is just better by magnitutes hard to imagine. (Mountain Heidi cows)

2

u/Name-ne 2d ago

Erm...

2

u/Unlikely_Local3693 17h ago

Bs

1

u/Opening-Nature1148 16h ago

No, really cows in nature also bread every year like pigs, rabbits etc.

1

u/JudgeTheLaw 1d ago

You'd be happy as well, being forcibly impregnated by a machine, giving birth to a calf that then gets snatched away from you and all you get to do is get pumped out of the milk you produce for your baby. 

So happy!

2

u/Opening-Nature1148 1d ago

Its a small price to pay for safety from predators and food. 

Life quality is okay, The same things you said could be said about The capitalistic machine and most people are fine with it.

2

u/Furcatus1337 1d ago

Cows are mammals as you and me, with all the same feelings. They are able to be happy, compassionate, sad and cry like other mammals. Do you think getting ra*ped every year, forcibly getting pregnant, losing your child right after birth, never seeing it again and being abused for milk production until the udder is so heavy, you need to be held up by chains so your legs can barely handle the weight, all while kept inside a small box where you are not able to turn around sounds like a small price to you?

The whole milk industry is fu*cked as hell dude, even here in Germany!

1

u/joyful_Swabian_267 1d ago

Bats, whales, moles or naked mole rats are also mammals but I wouldn't dare to compare their needs with human ones they are just too different. Being a mammal doesn't tell you anything besides basic anatomy and reproductive features. Yeah they have feelings. Did you ever consider they feel different about things than you do? If you are interested in cow psychology there is a ton of literature there, but spare me this crap. Why do humans always think they are measure of all things. Compared to a life in the wild, which can be very stressful and painful, living on a good humane farm is paradise for a cow. No wolves, bears or lions hunting them, biting them into their flanks, snouts, throats etc. No worry about food shortage in the winter or starvation. Again I am describing a reasonable farm, not a factory farm. Being hold up by chains is something that doesn't happen there. You are just describing the worst stuff, but you are claiming this is the norm, which it is not.

2

u/Furcatus1337 21h ago edited 21h ago

Where do you live if you consider factory farming not the norm? The vast majority of animals bred for meat, like chicken, turkey, pigs and cows live a life away from sunlight, in dark, dirty and small spaces where they are barely able to move and suffer from the second they were born until their death, some more, some less. Of course there are farms out there where animals live a good life, but they still are killed eventually and that meat is not affordable for everyone. So it's basically a well-fed life in suffering and slavery, compared to a more tedious life in freedom with sunlight and fresh grass and almost no serious natural threats, at least for grown-up cows. I know what I'd choose. The fact that you try to justify eating meat by either lying to yourself about the way most farms work and/or closing your eyes from reality to silence your mental dissonance is normal for almost everybody, but not what's actually right in a moral way.

Only poultry, cows, pigs and fish combined, humanity kills about 4 times more individuals every year than there are stars in the Milky Way. This is sick asf!

2

u/Unlikely_Local3693 17h ago

Complete and utter bs. Whatever you need to do to ease your conscience

1

u/Opening-Nature1148 20h ago

Eine mastkuh bekommt pro 21 kg einen Quadratmeter platz, in Haltungsform 5 von der wir hier reden. Ja es gibt schlimmere aber das ist was ich und jeder andere untere glücklichen Kühe. Verstehe. Pro 600 kg Kuh gibt es Kind 30 Quadratmeter Platz. 30 Kühe auf 1000 Quadratmetern, das ist genug Platz für alles was eine Kuh braucht. 

Mythos Kuh Vergewaltiger,  eine Kuh wiegt 600 kg wenn etwas passiert was sie nicht mag kann es für 80 kg Bauern ganz schnell das Ende bedeuten. Kühe werden ganz natürlich brünstig und wollen sich fortpflanzen, eine Kuh die das nicht will wird das klar kommunizieren.

Auch in der Natur werden Kühe jedes Jahr schwanger, es ist nicht wie bei Menschen wo das to mutch wäre für die Frau. Schweine werden auch jedes Jahr trächtig, die wollen das bzw sind dafür gemacht.

1

u/joyful_Swabian_267 1d ago edited 1d ago

Can you please stop anthropomorphisizing? Cows have other needs than humans, lol. I mean obviously they digest grass, we don't. Cows don't care about romantic love either. They mate with every bull you bring them together, mating for them is just following the animalistic urges for reproduction. Raping would imply that the cow would get traumatized by artificial insemination, which they don't. You notice when a cow was traumatized by something, the reactions are clear. Surely factory farming is awful, the cows need to have opportunity to go outside, graze, establish and maintain a healthy social structure in the herd etc. That is actually far more important for a cows wellbeing than the things you are worried about.

2

u/JudgeTheLaw 19h ago

Yeah, it is known that animals, especially mammals, don't care when their offspring gets taken away. there certainly are no videos out there of cows screaming for their calves. 

How would you estimate the amounts of factory-farmed vs free ranging cows, measured either in tons of beef or amount of animals? 

2

u/doggos4house2020 3d ago

Not all dairy farms are like this. Upstate NY farms are a great example of cows being treated wonderfully. Buying dairy from a local farm/creamery is still an option depending on where in the country you live.

1

u/Sea-Feedback-2424 2d ago

Not everyone likes Stewart's. Milk though it is better the Crowley.

I suspect it's feed different between the corporate farmers and the local farmers. Gotta make that extra cent per gallon using a 75% corn feed instead of 25%.

0

u/MF-Geuze 2d ago

This is pure fantasy. 

2

u/ProfitCold4972 2d ago

It's fantasy to claim to know that it's impossible to treat cows kindly.

2

u/MF-Geuze 2d ago

What do you think happens when male calves are born on dairy farms? If too many calves are born that year, and there is no market for even for their carcasses, farmers leave them in the field where they hopefully  d1e in their own scour (💩). Otherwise a vet might come and give them a lethal injection, but this is more expensive than leaving them to d1e of exposure.

What do you think happens when a cow is past her maximum milk producing age? 💀💀

1

u/Name-ne 2d ago

They'll hardly leave carcasses lying open in the field.

2

u/MF-Geuze 1d ago

I have no idea what they do with the bodies. All I know is that a vet isn't called for unwanted male calves when they are sick as it's worth more than the calf, they are just left to die from exposure 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/20/it-would-be-kinder-to-shoot-them-irelands-calves-set-for-live-export

2

u/Name-ne 2d ago

Do you think it makes them happy to be constantly pregnant? Would you like that?

2

u/Adventurous-East-586 1d ago

It is fantasy to think treating animals kindly is a viable description for harvesting milk that is intended to feed the cows offspring. In addition, the business model is not viable for more than a few farms and customers

1

u/doggos4house2020 2d ago

They don’t know dick about shit.

The farmers I grew up with treated their animals better than family. I get it, everyone wants to take a stand about something, but these people are ridiculous.

And just in case this is some r/americabad nonsense, how about the British government culling a bunch of innocent cattle because their bovine TB testing procedures are horribly inadequate? Sounds pretty inhumane to me.

2

u/angel-dust420 1d ago

it's true 0.1% of times

1

u/MF-Geuze 1d ago

Username is 💯

2

u/SadMangonel 3d ago

But thats what the cows want. /s

1

u/lickshotz69 2d ago

Happier than us cows :-) !

But the cows wouldn’t even exist if the demand wouldn’t be that high. So fuck it. They should enjoy the ride

2

u/Name-ne 2d ago

I REALLY HATE that 'argument'! Be careful not to meet me in the dark 💀

1

u/Emergency_Zebra_1698 10h ago

It's not an argument, it's a logical fallacy.

1

u/Name-ne 2d ago

Do you honestly think they'd be happier with the farmer's hands on their tits?!

1

u/EasternLow4706 2d ago

oh noo!

its crazy that they still manage to be happy so they can make that delicious milk.

0

u/Ok-Letterhead781 2d ago

Yes and in the end of life they become delicious meat! Perfection.

2

u/seelefanth 2d ago

i can guarantee you that the cows are not happy lmao

3

u/Bella-Fiore 3d ago

I feel most Germans would prefer cheaper food and not as good quality. Maybe the quality is generally higher than in the USA, but I find especially the veggies here so tasteless compared to Italy for example😀

1

u/MietschVulka 3d ago

I mean what can do. Most veggies are imported. Means freezing and stuff on the way.

Go to the wochenmarkt or plant the veggies yourself and they taste good.

Tomatoes for example. 12% are german. Rest is imported.

Italy however uses most of their own food. A lot of it locally. And yeah food is better and fresher when not shipped around the whole world.

1

u/Name-ne 2d ago

Depending on what you wish to eat. If you stick with local veggies, it would have to be much more cabbage...

1

u/No_Leek6590 10h ago

I mean, in US I had some of the best and some of the worst food in my life. It convinced me regulation is a must. Now if you are used to bad american food and go for average german, I can see why you would be happy. But living in germany I am convinced germans simply hate good taste. Must taste cheap or no go.

2

u/ConversationVisible9 3d ago

German cows are NOT happy cows

2

u/Financial-Report8439 3d ago edited 2d ago

American cheese isn't plastic, its cheese, other milk products, water (sometimes) and emulsifiers. Just read the fucking ingredients before making such claims.

If you don't believe me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aGNAxN5Z-o

7

u/Sahnex3 1d ago edited 1d ago

"just read the fucking ingredients before making such claims"

Did you truely believe that the guy you replied to thinks that american cheese is ACTUAL plastic?

And then you even linked a youtube video to prove its not plastic xDDDD

American education system sending its strongest warrior.

1

u/Acrobatic-Permit4263 3d ago

nile is so good and this video in specific. good recommentdation

1

u/SryItwasntme 2d ago

We do. It is called "Schmelzkäse", and it has been around Germany for like forever. It's just not as dominating as in the US.

1

u/Name-ne 2d ago

Not cheese, milk.

1

u/Grouchy_Title3912 1d ago

That escalated quickly. Relax!

1

u/dimix16x 1d ago

bro thats not cheese in the video. thats chemical meshup with cheese flavour. real cheese is made out of milk, bacterial cultures, and salt not that weird yellow soup

1

u/RevolutionaryCads 1d ago

Good god you're thick.

1

u/Feloney50 15h ago

There's no way that anything in a Krafts single is food.

America does have real cheese though and it tastes pretty good.

1

u/CustomerDirect6173 6h ago

Fun fact the american cheese that everyone thinks about when hearing "american cheese" is illegal to be called cheese in germany. You have to call it cheese product or something similar to it.

1

u/Valley_Forge213 1d ago

Why so angry and rude man? Did these opinions do anything to you or just having a bad day?

0

u/Kate_Birdie 2d ago

It was a joke. I've tasted it. It may not be plastic in chemical makeup, but it tastes like plastic.

0

u/SweetNerevarine 2d ago

Yummy. I always have a jar full of granny approved emulsifier in my kitchen cupboard... You know. Just in case I'm in the mood of turning minimally processed foodstuff into ultra-processed animal feed.

1

u/Financial-Report8439 2d ago edited 2d ago

The most common emulsifier is sodium citrat. Wich you get as a by-product when you mix backing soda and lemon juice. So indeed granny approved, if your granny does a lot of backing. You won't have a jar of it at home, but the stuff is absolutely harmless.

The problem with american cheese is that it tastes worse than normal cheese, not that it's unhealthy.

1

u/Name-ne 2d ago

And what do they do to it to make it taste worse, ie. like plastic? Ans especialky, WHY?!

0

u/SweetNerevarine 2d ago

Either way, it doesn't have a good reason to exist.

1

u/Rasp10 3d ago

Yeah, somehow the Germans and their penchant for purity laws kinda weirds me out actually

1

u/Sea-Feedback-2424 2d ago

Milk in the US is statutorily 3.0% milkfat. Milk in Germany is 3.5% to 3.8% (tho some raw milk us up to 4.2% seasonally).

Also, in America, dairy cows receive almost 70% of their food from corn (idk about the other 30%). That is the level we give beef cows here for fattening. Normally it's only 50% with local grain pellets making up the rest. With Landmilch the corn is (o ften) much less, though that's not guaranteed teed, and   w ith biomilch or heumilch it's far less, bot h are legally protected terms. Grass-fed cows in the US is nkt a legally protected term.

Indont think that pasteurization has anything to do with it, the processes are largely the same only difference is invalid microbe count. (Though shelf stable milk does taste different). However organic milk does get ultra pasteurized In the US.

1

u/Name-ne 2d ago

I thought the amount of corn fed to German cows was higher, looking at the amount of corn that's grown for silage here...

1

u/RainbowSiberianBear 2d ago

I would assume the quality has to do with Germans really not accepting less from their food

In fact they absolutely do - for such a rich country in Europe, they really drop the ball on food quality and variety (most Germans appreciate lower prices vs better selection) which is easy to see when you compare supermarkets here with France, Switzerland, Spain, Italy or even Czechia.

1

u/Name-ne 2d ago

French cheese stores! French cookies!! 😵‍💫🫠

1

u/Valley_Forge213 1d ago

I live in Germany and I have lived many years in the UK. I appreciate this post too but I must say; whilst the British surely (justified or not) share a reputation for lousy food, your breakfast and ESPECIALLY your Milk, is not part of that reputation for sure!

British milk is excellent!

When I first moved to Britain, the milkman gave us one month free, one milk bottle on the doorstep every morning as a welcoming gift! Wow.

The British milk still has the "Fat" of the Milk in the top layer. No other country still has that? Is that still a thing in Britain?

So I agree German milk is good, but it pales in comparison to british milk i must say..

1

u/Mental_Visual_25 14h ago

I drink almost 2 gallons of American milk a week and have been for years and I have never gotten a sour aftertaste unless it was spoiled. You sure you were buying proper milk?

1

u/winstonchurchill89 9h ago

In den USA ist nicht nur die Milch geschmacklos…

1

u/Ecoservice 3d ago

Interesting, I visited the States in spring and had the feeling that the milk tasted flat compared to what I am used to in Germany. Didn’t think much of it but it seems to be real. Maybe the pasteurizing process is different? Could also be the food? I usually buy organic milk in Germany.

2

u/Irish618 3d ago

You probably bought skim milk or 1% on accident. Full fat milk is called "whole milk" in the US.

1

u/Interesting_Move3117 3d ago

The fat content is much lower. No fat, no taste.

2

u/Academic-Balance6999 3d ago

The fat content is identical if you look at the food regulations (US/EU). Same standards.

0

u/Benjilator 3d ago

Fat still has a relatively bad image due to the propaganda done by the sugar industry like 50 years ago.

0

u/Purled_Attitude 3d ago

Dairy cows are just as mistreated and abused as cattle is everywhere. I guess our milk isn't watered down, doesn't have "vital" vitamins and other additions put into it, and you might have bought full fat instead of skimmed.

0

u/redditseddit4u 3d ago

The biggest reason for the taste difference is how it’s pasteurized. USA and UK primarily use similar pasteurization processes while Germany and much of the EU use a different process.

In Germany, milk is pasteurized at ultra high temperatures which gives it a caramelized/sweeter and “cooked” taste. This is what allows it to be shelf stable at room temperature. The US and UK “flash” pasteurize milk for just a few seconds which gives it a rawer taste and why it still requires refrigeration to prevent spoilage.

2

u/0rchidometer 2d ago

You described the difference between UHT Milk (in Germany called H-Milch) and the pasteurised milk from the fridge (yet there was a broad change "recently" where the milk is preserved differently and called ESL [Extended Shelf Life] milk).

You can get all three of that over here.

1

u/redditseddit4u 2d ago

You can get the different types of milk in the US too but the majority is the flash pasteurized milk that needs to be refrigerated. Similarly as you mention for Germany where you can get different types but the vast majority “H-Milch”.

Thus why most people associate the respective countries with either one type of the milk or the other. It’s also the reason why people usually ask this question on Reddit.

2

u/Affectionate-Day-743 2d ago

Are you german? There is way more “fresh” refrigerated milk in any supermarket than there is UHT milk.

2

u/Eastern_Voice_4738 2d ago

Most brands of „fresh“ milk isn’t fresh, but some middle ground between real milk and h Milch

1

u/Name-ne 2d ago

That's ESL, and I'd second that definition 😁

1

u/Eastern_Voice_4738 2d ago

Even the regular milk in the fridge is long last uht light.

In Scandinavia the milk is „low pasteurised“ or something such - keeping the proper fresh taste without the excessive creaminess and caramel something taste of uht.

The biomilch here tastes almost right.

1

u/Name-ne 2d ago

That is BS, sorry.

1

u/Eastern_Voice_4738 1d ago

Nope. Lågpastöriserad is the Swedish standard. And apparently German milk is called esl and according to Wikipedia, esl lays between high pasteurised and uht - basically boiled milk to death so that it lasts for a month in the fridge.

In Sweden, it will smell after less than a week. Thats the good stuff.

1

u/Misfiring 2d ago

We have both types in my country, and my experience is that UHT milk doesn't taste as rich as pasteurised milk that expires after 3 weeks.

2

u/Least_Simple_1220 2d ago

3 weeks? More like 3 days if it's the good stuff

1

u/Misfiring 2d ago

3 weeks if refrigerated, 3 days without.

1

u/Dull_Brain2688 2d ago

Fresh milk does not last 3 weeks refrigerated.

1

u/Name-ne 2d ago

Occasionally, ESL milk does. But don't depend on it.

1

u/Dull_Brain2688 2d ago

That isn’t classed as fresh milk though, is it? ESL isn’t really available here in Ireland. I don’t think people would accept it being sold as fresh milk.

1

u/PatagonMan 2d ago

This is after opening?

1

u/Misfiring 2d ago

Of course not. After opening you must consume within 3 days.

1

u/Name-ne 2d ago

I wouldn't leave milk outside a fridge, ever

1

u/Name-ne 2d ago

UHT milk only, obviously.