The masses have now forgotten about hulk

[u/thefulsometoetoise]

I've seen this all over people are replacing the hulk with iron man and it makes me so sad to see before the mcu he was easily in these conversations

[u/EmmaFrosts-Husband]

How is Iron Man culturally influential other than memes?

What has he actually changed the culture?

We're not talking about a popularity contest, the big four are characters who have made meaningful change in comics and other mediums.

Wonder Woman is the reason we have female superheroes. Back in the old days before Wonder Woman they didn't want Women in superhero comics other than as a love interest. Her character is deeply tied to feminism.

Without Wonder Woman, there would be no She Hulk, Black Widow, Supergirl, Storm, Invisible Woman, Jean Grey, Emma Frost etc.

That's half some of the most popular superheroes in Dc and Marvel.

[u/EmmaFrosts-Husband → u/[deleted]]

Okay? How is that relevant to the comic medium?

As I said the big four are influential in the comic medium. The mcu is the superhero genre in the movie medium

Sure Iron man was the first superhero movie in a cinematic universe but he wasn't the first superhero movie or even the first popular superhero movie.

Superman is the grandfather of Superheroes, he has influenced any different characters like Shazam, Homelander, Omniman, The Plutonian, Hyperion, Gladiator.

Wonder Woman is the reason we have female superheroes on a larger scale, she wasn't the first female superhero but she was the most popular and because of her success, other creators decided to make more Jean Grey, Invisible Woman, Black Canary. Her character was deeply associated with women's representation and feminism.

Spider-Man showed that not all Superheroes had to be grown up, that the average unknown could be a superheroes rather than a sidekick and the Death of Gwen Stacy is classed as the Death of the Silver Age within comics. Comics became darker because of it.

[u/themoosic → u/EmmaFrosts-Husband]

I mean the big four thing is stupid in general; you cannot limit the cultural influence of superheroes to four characters, that’s stupid. If we’re going off cultural impact of superheroes on society; Iron Man would probably beat over Wonder Woman. On Comics, Wonder Woman beats him. But it’s not like the X-Men and Back Panther didn’t have some major impacts on the American Civil Rights movement. Captain America was huge during WW2 and had a major cultural influence then. Superman kicked off the Silver Age, Batman is holding DC comics in the mainstream with his recent popular runs

Fuck the big four as AN IDEA, I spit in the faces of those who abide by it. To debate the four greatest heroes on cultural influence is beyond stupid, the answer changes greatly within the different subcultures that enjoy comics, let alone the different CULTURES that enjoy comics.

[u/EmmaFrosts-Husband → u/themoosic]

I agree with your comment, I do think that limiting the comic book Medium to a big four does undermine superheroes of all backgrounds and cultures. This is actually the smartest comment I've received in the thread.

However I do want to challenge one thing in the comment. About Iron Man being more culturally influential than Wonder Woman in society.

Iron Man hasn't changed society, he's had an influence on memes absolutely, he's had an influence on Marvel movies but not society.

Wonder Woman However has, her Character not only paved the way for other female superheroes like the Wasp, Invisible Woman, Storm, Supergirl, Black Canary and Batgirl.

But she also had an affect on people's view of women back in the 40s and challenged sexist mindsets. Her character being a key part of Feminism within the 1940s to 1970s.

[u/themoosic → u/EmmaFrosts-Husband]

I think Iron Man has had more affect on the modern Pop Culture, whereas Wonder Woman had major impact on Culture in the Silver Age. She’s really limited by a lack of any recent breakout comic runs (absolute Wonder Woman is imo almost there tho) and her two sub par movies. Limited in the way that Gal Gadot (terrible actress) got cast as her

[u/EmmaFrosts-Husband → u/themoosic]

Absolutely Iron Man has had an impact on popular culture especially memes

But Wonder Woman has had an impact on culture and history. You have to remember Wonder Woman came out within the 1940s it was a deeply sexist time period, women only got the right to vote in the 1920s in America. And they still weren't allowed the same privileges as Men in the 1940s.

Despite that Wonder Woman became a popular foundation of DC, she challenged sexist mindsets and ideals.

[u/Pitiful-Local-6664 → u/EmmaFrosts-Husband]

We aren't talking Comic Medium, we are talking "superheros"

[u/EmmaFrosts-Husband → u/Pitiful-Local-6664]

Okay? Even in Superheroes

Wonder Woman influenced Superheroes, she paved the way for Female Superheroes without her we wouldn't had gotten Storm, The Wasp, Invisible Woman, Batgirl, Supergirl, Black Canary, Zatanna, Jean Grey,

Wonder Woman came out in 1941 before all of those characters, she challenged sexist mindsets against women, she became deeply rooted with feminism of the time. She became a foundation of DC.

She's a part of the DC Trinity.

[u/7SevenGod → u/EmmaFrosts-Husband]

Except there were multiple female super heroes before wonder woman.

Black Panther is everything for black women that she is for women, he still wouldn't make a big four despite inspiring some of the most impactful changes in comics ever

And it's a stretch to say marvel wouldn't have Jean or storm without wonder woman lmao. Marvel is incredibly inclusive, all their characters ESPECIALLY mutants would've included women guaranteed, even if WW never existed