r/imaginarymaps • u/macroprism • Jan 06 '25
[OC] Alternate History THE PROMISED LAND : A timeline where Israel formed in East Prussia
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u/Lukasz_Joniak Jan 06 '25
Should have made the cities names in Yiddish with Konigsburg becoming מלכיםבארג (Mlkhimbarg)
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u/idan_zamir Jan 06 '25
There was a large Jewish community there that just called it "קעניגסבערג" (kenigsberg)
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u/Lukasz_Joniak Jan 06 '25
Barg is the Yiddish name for mount and Mlkhim means King, so King's Mount (Konigsberg) is Mlkhimbarg
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u/hmiemad Jan 06 '25
Is the city named King's Mount in English ? Why would you transliterate it in Yiddish?
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u/Lukasz_Joniak Jan 06 '25
Because Yiddish isn't just made of German Jews but Slavic Jews as well and in a lot of Slavic languages it is transliterated as Królewiec in Polish, Královec in Czech, etc, which literally is King+place ending, after trying to form a new identity seperate from a 'German Jew' identity they would stop just saying Konigsburg but make it sound more Jewish and actually make a new word for it
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u/jerseyman80 Jan 07 '25
This would be great for in-universe jokes about tourists mixing up Mlkhimberg and Mecklenburg when they're booking plane or train tickets. This has happened to German speakers before, someone from Saxony asked for a ticket to Bourdeaux and ended up in Porto, Portugal instead.
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u/TheVanKaiser Jan 06 '25
it will then be מלכימברג
the letter ם is מ but only at the if it is the last letter in a word it will be written as ם (both in Hebrew and Yiddish )
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Jan 06 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Tankertrot Jan 06 '25
Not really a settler colony considering that concept didn't form until far after the eastern crusades
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u/DrJuanZoidberg Jan 06 '25
What else would you call it considering German Catholics were explicitly sent there to displace the native pagan Baltic tribes? Sounds like settler colonialism to me
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u/KikoMui74 Jan 08 '25
The Vandals, a German tribe used to love around that area. So groups moving around back and fourth, calling that migration is more accurate.
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u/DrJuanZoidberg Jan 08 '25
Nah bro. The Teutons’ mission was explicitly to expand German territory, genocide the pagan Balts if they didn’t convert and settled their lands. This isn’t like the Vandals who migrated because of socioeconomic reasons (ie Huns raping and pillaging them), but an explicit attempt at expanding, settling and colonizing for the HRE.
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u/KikoMui74 Jan 08 '25
Most migrations at the time involved wars
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u/DrJuanZoidberg Jan 08 '25
The difference being that like the many Greek/Punic/Roman colonies of Antiquity, colonies exist alongside the original homeland just as in the case of Teutonic Knights from the HRE who colonized the Baltics. The Vandals migrated because they were forced out of their original homeland by the Huns
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u/KikoMui74 Jan 08 '25
The Vandals originally lived in the area, before the Huns pushed them into Rome
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u/Tankertrot Jan 06 '25
It predates the concept of colonialism? If you consider that colonialism that would make the arab conquests colonization, thus making israel a decolonial project & incomparable to the fictional jewish state in prussia
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u/DrJuanZoidberg Jan 06 '25
Looks like something we’ll have agree to disagree on considering people subscribe to either of our views.
My Greek ancestors in Antiquity referred to the places they settled around Mediterranean outside their homeland as “colonies” WAY before the institution of colonialism from the Age of Discovery. How else would you describe settling Greeks in far flung places like Gaul, North Africa and Bactria if not colonies?
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u/Archaemenes Jan 06 '25 edited Jan 31 '25
fanatical coordinated bear squeeze cable scary plant live telephone fine
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Tankertrot Jan 06 '25
Separating the act of colonialism from the concept basically negates it as an institution and would make any discussion of it pointless.
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Jan 07 '25
I mean if you want to get into it, all of Germany east of the Elbe is a settler colony by that standard
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u/Darwidx Jan 06 '25
I must say, this would be a cool solution after ww2.
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u/Premium_Gamer2299 Jan 06 '25
"let's give the jews land most recently owned by the people that blame the jews for the loss of all their land"
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u/eswagson Jan 06 '25
Would the revival of Hebrew ever have happened if the Jewish state wasn’t formed in historic Israel?
Would Yiddish come to dominate instead, especially if the Jewish state formed in somewhere like East Prussia?
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u/tupe12 Jan 06 '25
The Hebrew revival movement was already making a lot of progress well before the 40’s
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u/eswagson Jan 06 '25
Do you think it’s likely in a hypothetical state like this that Hebrew would be chosen over Yiddish as a national language? Would Yiddish have more influence in a state like this compared to real-life Israel?
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u/tupe12 Jan 06 '25
It really depends on if this country gets made pre or post holocaust, but since the general sentiment among people here is post, I’ll go with that.
Since the holocaust had absolutely decimated the number of Yiddish speakers, the big pushers for Hebrew would still have the opportunity to cement their language in the state. Im guessing at best, Yiddish would still be prevalent enough to be taught as a secondary language in most schools.
But I’m making this all under the assumption that the Zionist movement just accepts this as their new home and give up on Jerusalem (because otherwise there’s a big mess that would need more then just this map to be shown), which by this point, is tough to call realistic
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u/o34x Jan 07 '25
If Israel were in East Prussia, Ba’athism, Arab socialism, and Arab unity movements might not exist in the same way, as the Arab-Israeli conflict was a major catalyst for their rise. Saddam Hussein would likely still hate communism and might align with the USA and the West, but his policies and actions would differ significantly without Israel as a regional factor. Leaders like Nasser and Assad might still rise to power, but their ideologies and priorities would likely shift without the Middle Eastern Israel.
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u/pzivan Jan 07 '25
This would have been the best outcome, the Germans should have pay for the stuff they did. no Palestinians suffering, and the Jews got their country.
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u/Deep_Head4645 Jan 10 '25
One problem. Jews didn’t form israel because we were genocided. Movements for the reformation of israel were already a thing, and they existed because jews saw israel as our land. Our homeland, the one that were exiled from, and the only one where creation of a nation-state would be justifiable.
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u/pzivan Jan 10 '25 edited Jan 11 '25
But someone just got released from a concentration camp probably aren’t that picky. And would also like the idea of taking land from the Germans
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Jan 10 '25
Idk who said this but there is a quote by somebody about the suggestion of Israel in East Prussia and it went something like: "to put the jews in East Prussia you'd need to use the same methods that were used to put them in concentration camps" as in the jews not wanting this option under any circumstance.
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u/Augustus420 Jan 07 '25
I suddenly have an idea for a Crusader Kings game
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u/macroprism Jan 07 '25
I got the idea from Bene Israel being formed in Kerala, India and I was like “hm where ELSE could the Jews have gone?”
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u/Lukasz_Joniak Jan 08 '25
Jewish Prussia has been an idea I have had for a CK3 game with the king of Poland hiring an experienced Jewish Warrior to fight the Baltic Prussians and stop their raids leading to a Knaanic Empire
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u/eswagson Jan 06 '25
Would the revival of Hebrew ever have happened if the Jewish state wasn’t formed in historic Israel?
Would Yiddish come to dominate instead, especially if the Jewish state formed in somewhere like East Prussia?
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u/yire1shalom Jan 07 '25
Absolutely Not gonna happen!
Revival of Hebrew is closely related to the fact that two or more diaspora groups of jews (depends on on how you count them) started living together and intermarry.
So naturally, the language common to all of them, the Lingua Franca of Hebrew, started to gain dominance, and backed by the Ideology of Zionism – all other jewish languages (Yiddish, Ladino, Judeo-Arabic, etc..) had to take a the backseat and remain in the minority.
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u/Kleber_comunista Jan 10 '25
doesn't modern hebrew use a bunch of arabic mixed with jewish languages and whatever could be found of ancient hebrew?
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u/yire1shalom Jan 10 '25
Could you please rephase that question?
I have no idea what were you trying to ask.
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u/Kleber_comunista Jan 10 '25
wasn't hebrew revived mixing jewish languages, arabic and ancient hebrew? like using words, pronunciations and grammar from these languages to revive hebrew
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u/yire1shalom Jan 10 '25
If you're referring to aspects of: Vocabulary, Grammar, Syntax, etc.. than Modern Hebrew is 95% close to ancient hebrew, with the remaining 5% are new verbs, and nouns that were invented out of the blue in order to bridge the gap of 1800 years of the langauge being unused.
This, stands in contrast to other revived ancient languages like Modern Greek which only share something 60% of its core with Classical Greek.
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u/Da_Meowster Jan 10 '25
Basically they wanted to start using Hebrew in day to day talk and not only prayers or Torah studying. So when they built it, they noticed they don't have words for modern things you didn't have in biblical times, so for those words they borrowed words from Arabic, English, Spanish, German, etc.... Also, some new Hebrew words are ancient Hebrew words with a changed meaning. Like the word for shoe, na'al, used to refer to sandals, but now it's a shoe, and in modern Hebrew you actually say sandal like in English to refer to one.
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u/yire1shalom Jan 11 '25
Yes there was some Hebraization of foreign words, but those still stand within the 5% margin of the new verbs and nouns that was added to Modern Hebrew as it was revived.
Basically, if you want to compare Modern Hebrew to Modern Greek; get an averaga native modern greek speaker, and ask him if he can read and understand without translation a chapter from Homer or Aristotle in the original Classical Greek without translation; And than, go get an average modern hebrew speaker and ask him if he can read understand a chapter from any book in the Hebrew Bible – and you will see that Israelis have a better grasp at biblical hebrew without the use of any aid.
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u/yire1shalom Jan 11 '25
FYI: the word Sandal started to first apear in Hebrew wwaayyyy back in the Talmud (Berakhot 60, p. 1) in the 11th centry C.E. by Rabbi Shlomo Yitzhaki (a.k.a. Rashi)
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u/dissolvedterritory Jan 06 '25
can't complain about east prussia being an enclave if there's no prussians to complain. also 15 million feels kinda high given the area, but i imagine this is a case of its immediate neighbours very politely (read: not politely at all) telling their jewish populations to emigrate
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u/port-man-of-war Jan 06 '25
I'm not sure population would reach 15 million, it's double the size of Jewish community of Isreal, and as your chart shows, it's mostly Ashkenazi. There's just not enough Ashkenazis after WW2, and I doubt that birth rate would be very high.
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u/yire1shalom Jan 07 '25
The plural of Ashkenazi is Ashkenazim – there's no 's' for plurality in Hebrew – just FYI
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u/WhimsyDiamsy Jan 06 '25
Going to be pretty hard to Denazify Germany if the Soviets took German territory and replaced the Germans with Jews. It's practically asking for Nazism to stay entrenched in German society. I doubt West Germany would accept the Oder-Neisse line in this timeline.
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u/Blarg_III Jan 06 '25
Going to be pretty hard to Denazify Germany if the Soviets took German territory and replaced the Germans with Jews.
I mean, they did that with Poles, another group the Nazis wanted to exterminate, on a much larger area with more people.
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u/ClovisRatt Jan 07 '25
With a parallel to today's expansionism, Lithuania better guard Memel/Klaipeda well
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u/Deep_Head4645 Jan 10 '25
The promised land, is not a 70 year old concept, its location doesn’t move whenever a jewish state is reborn. It stays in israel. The name Zion doesn’t change location too. Zion is used as a synonym for Jerusalem.
Stop calling every jewish state in here a promised land just because it sounds cool
There’s also the need for clarification that jews wouldn’t choose prussia or europe. Or any place other then the promised land that is in israel, but its alternative history so
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u/FriendlyAccountant70 Jan 06 '25
this is based bc now palestine doesnt have to suffer in this timeline
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u/Reasonable_Fold6492 Jan 06 '25
Palestine most likely won't exist in this timeline. If you see the first arab war with israel the Arab armies were all moving separately trying to take as much Palestinians territory they could. In this time line either 1. Bathism succeeded and a united Arab republic exist (rip Kurdish minorities) or 2. Palestinian territories are devided among Arab nation that are still trying and fighting for control. We'll I guess lebanon might be still peaceful in this timeline at least.
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u/Cometmoon448 Jan 06 '25
"Syria" didn't exist until the 1930s. "Lebanon" didn't exist until the 1940s. "Jordan" didn't exist until the 1940s.
Countries are fluid, man-made and constantly changing.
And yet, for mysterious reasons, people are always so quick to single out Palestine specifically, with their semantics.
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u/RadjaDwm Jan 06 '25
Unless the US, the West, and Saudi Arabia, decided to support the creation of an Islamist Palestinian state against the secular and Soviet-backed Arab states.
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u/Apathetic-Onion Jan 06 '25
The West and the USSR always have ideas for making the world a fucked up place.
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u/Dirzagh_Ruzbiran Jan 07 '25
Before Isn'treal popped up, Palestine is a Mandate, which means it's independence is a guarantee.
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u/Agitated-Quit-6148 Jan 07 '25
That's not what that means lol. There has never and will never been/be a palestinian state
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u/Christian_Corocora Jan 06 '25
The population of modern-day Palestine wouldn't be under Apartheid, and the Palestinian diaspora wouldn't exist, at least.
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u/ltlyellowcloud Jan 06 '25
Poles and Lithauanuans do though. We had enough of German occupation, please leave us alone 😭
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u/greendayfan1954 Jan 06 '25
A worthy trade off
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u/ltlyellowcloud Jan 06 '25
Germans for another flavour of Germans? We had like three or four by this point. Neither was particularly liked.
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u/xToasted1 Jan 06 '25
yea but yall have a homeland to leave to, whereas the Palestinians dont, so in terms of suffering i think the Palestinians have it much worse
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u/ltlyellowcloud Jan 06 '25 edited Jan 06 '25
.... That's the point? I don't have any other homeland to go back to. I'm just as from there as Palestinians are from Palestine. So yeah, kinda like Palestinians really.
It's not a game of who has it worse. Especially when we're talking about a made up map in an alternate reality. For all you know they could have done the same thing with North-Eastern Poland/Lithuania Minor/Sudovia/Dżukia as they did with Palestine.
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u/Lukasz_Joniak Jan 06 '25
Isn't Jordan and Palestine like literally the same Semitic Arabic group, isn't that why the British made Transjordan apart of the Mandate for Palestine?
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u/The-Dmguy Jan 06 '25
Huh ? So you’re saying that all Palestinians should leave to Jordan because they’re all “ayrabs” ?
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u/Lukasz_Joniak Jan 06 '25
when did I say that?
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u/The-Dmguy Jan 06 '25
That’s… what you said ? “Isn’t Jordan and Palestine like literally the same Semitic Arabic” hence they can go there. It’s also the same argument used by zionists.
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u/Lukasz_Joniak Jan 06 '25
when in that sentence did I say "the Palestinians should all be deported to Jordan because they are same people"? 2 nations of the same people can border each other, look at Germany and Austria.
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u/tom171771 Jan 06 '25
I agreed too. With this, the Palestinians won’t have to suffer.
This actually makes more sense because it actually forced the Germans to pay directly for the Holocaust instead of the Palestinians, who suffer for that with all the expulsion, ethnic cleansing, segregation, and so on to this day.
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u/Itay1708 Jan 08 '25
It's so telling that people think that Israel was created because of Holocaust guilt meanwhile the British literally banned Jews from fleeing to Palestine during the war. You can easily tell people that have no clue about the conflict this way.
The Israeli provisional government had already existed since 1920 in Israel because everyone knew the holocaust was coming a long time before it happened and the British are one reason that so many Jews died, banning any Jews from fleeing to Palestine and turning back ships full of refugeees back to Nazi Europe (Struma Disaster)
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u/Lukasz_Joniak Jan 06 '25
This literally causes Neo Nazi's to say they Hitler predicted this and the Jews are stealing German Lands like Hitler said, this is the worst timeline
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u/RadjaDwm Jan 06 '25
Ironically, I think this new Israel could be buddies with the Arab and Muslim countries.
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u/BeeYehWoo Jan 06 '25
I dont know the willingness of jews to live in former german territory given the revanchism of germany & experiences in death camps. Or to live in communism will be surrounded by warsaw pact and ussr.
It may be jewish in name only or a limited settlement of jews while the rest of them go and try to create israel which may not be successful given there is a jewish state created.
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u/PlanetaryIceTea Jan 12 '25
The Russian-Polish-German resistance group that forms is going to be an utter ideological mess.
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u/Ascendant_Mind_01 Jan 06 '25
Based and free Palestine pilled
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u/Reasonable_Fold6492 Jan 06 '25
Palestinie won't exist. Egypt, Syria, Jordan all wanted Palestinian territory not create independent nation. It makes sense why arab nation armies all moved so randomly during the first war since they were trying to take much territory before the other Arab nation. It might lead to united Arab republic forming though. Rip to kurds than.
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u/Cometmoon448 Jan 06 '25
"Syria" didn't exist until the 1930s. "Lebanon" didn't exist until the 1940s. "Jordan" didn't exist until the 1940s.
Countries are fluid, man-made and constantly changing.
And yet, for mysterious reasons, people are always so quick to single out Palestine specifically, with their semantics.
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u/The-Dmguy Jan 06 '25
You’re just totally wrong on every level. If the Zionists didn’t colonize it, a Palestinian state would have existed just like a Syrian, Iraqi, Lebanese and Jordanian country exists today. They were all the result of the partition of the Ottoman empire by the British and the French.
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u/Reasonable_Fold6492 Jan 06 '25
Iraq invaded Kuwait as they thought it was a fake state created by UK. Syria for many years declared Lebanon should be absorbed into Syria. The arab leader wouldn't care about legitimatcey
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u/Deep_Head4645 Jan 10 '25
The Palestinian identity and national consciousness would not be a thing. It was a reaction to zionism
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u/CodenameHorizon Jan 06 '25
No thank you. I think we will stick to our native homeland.
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u/Deep_Head4645 Jan 10 '25
I agree with this
Funny how all the racists here say “Asia or europe”
Only in reddit, would it be okay to deny someone’s ethnicity, deny someone’s nation, and pull out racial theories to back it up.
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u/CodenameHorizon Jan 10 '25
Its ok to do it to me because I'm a Jew obviously. The only group whos not allowed to exist
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u/DistributionVirtual2 Jan 06 '25
So Poland or Ukraine?
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u/CodenameHorizon Jan 06 '25
My family lived in Persia for a thousand years, but that whole time, we knew we were native to Eretz Israel. The same stands for Jews who lived in exile in Europe.
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u/Cometmoon448 Jan 06 '25
So you're Iranian! That's badass. One of the most ancient and culturally-influential countries on the planet.
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u/Stepanek740 Jan 06 '25
"lived in persia for a thousand years"
"native to israel"
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u/Appropriate-Bite1257 Jan 06 '25
Jews were adamant about the prophecy of return to Zion, Israel was in their prayers for millennia, when they marry they mention not forgetting Jerusalem and in every Passover in the diaspora they swore to return to their homeland.
They also had good conviction in this belief as the prophecy of return to Zion was first revealed by Jeremiah and was implemented by King Cyrus (from Persia) in the first downfall of Israel. So they had faith.
For us in the west who don’t have deep roots as the Jewish people it seems absurd feeling a connection to a homeland like they do. So it looks weird when they say”my family was in diaspora for a thousand years, but my homeland is Israel”, for them it’s embedded in their culture for millennia, you can’t talk them out of it.
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u/Cometmoon448 Jan 06 '25 edited Jan 06 '25
Jewish people in West Asia and North Africa had centuries to move to live in Jerusalem. For centuries, these places were all under the same banner, whether it be the Ummayad Caliphate, or the Abbasid Caliphate, or the Ayyubid Dynasty, etc.
But they didn't. They stayed living in places like Alexandria, or Baghdad, or Shiraz. Why? Because these places were their homes. Because they were stable.
For example, Moses Ben Maimon, a famous Jewish philosopher, spent his life travelling all over West Asia and North Africa. He lived in Spain, Morocco and Egypt.
He never even visited Jerusalem.
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u/Appropriate-Bite1257 Jan 06 '25
Jerusalem was always under imperialist control from the days of Rome, there was limitation on migration, the moment the ban on purchasing land by Jews was removed by the Ottoman empire they migrated in high numbers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine7
u/macroprism Jan 06 '25
“I call dibs on this land and it’s no-one elses except MINE” - Israelis, probably
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u/BeeHexxer Jan 06 '25
As we all know, the only possible way for Jews to live in a city or region is if it’s under the control of a genocidal Jewish ethnostate. That’s why cities such as New York, Buenos Aires, etc. have virtually no Jewish population and there weren’t any Jews in Palestine before 1948.
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u/Lukasz_Joniak Jan 06 '25
No Jews in Palestine before 1948, lets say you are only talking about 1947 because if you seriously believe Jews never inhabited Canaan you need help, in 1947 many Jews lived on the shore of the British Mandate of Palestine, in Ottoman times it was even more because extremist Arab nationalists had not attacked Jewish villages, including Gaza, which had a Jewish minority population for a long time before conflict caused a line to be drawn where Jews can live and where Arabs can live with Arabs in Israel and Jews in Palestine being seen as traitors and enemy spies.
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u/BeeHexxer Jan 06 '25 edited Jan 06 '25
I was being sarcastic. That was extremely obvious. Hello? 😭 Literally right before I said New York and Buenos Aires had virtually no Jewish population. Wow. Edit: not to mention you’re literally disproving my own point… if Jews lived in Palestine before the establishment of Israel, then Israel doesn’t need to exist for us to live in/near Jerusalem or in Palestine.
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u/Gibzit Jan 06 '25
"By the rivers of Babylon, where we sat down, and there we wept, when we remembered Zion... They carried us away in captivity requiring of us a song ... Now how shall we sing the LORD's song in a strange land?" (Psalm 137)
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u/Stepanek740 Jan 06 '25
"remembered zion"
bitch most of these so called "exiles" never saw palestine in their lives, nor did their ancestors, not to mention the fact that most had the option to, europeans wanted them gone while islam on the other hand was relatively more open to non-muslims and was perfectly fine with pilgrims coming to their land
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u/Gibzit Jan 06 '25
The Babylonian exiles in particular had a strong connection to the land of Israel. They were led by an Exilarch directly descended from the line of King David. Their ancestors lived in the land of Israel, which they were native to and expelled from by the Babylonians, leading to a 2500 year exile only ended by the the founding of the state of Israel.
When the Jews tried returning to their land in the 19th century, the Ottoman Caliphs opposed it completely and banned their enterance multiple times. So they were not perfectly fine with Jews living in Israel as you falsely state.
If you don't believe Jews come from and are native to the land of Israel, you must provide an alternative, more plausible historical explanation for their existance. (There are none)
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u/macroprism Jan 07 '25
Yes, you are right - after 1000 years of living somewhere else they can just come to Israel and make it their land? Netanyahu’s dad changed his last name from Mileikowsky to Netanyahu.
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u/Gibzit Jan 07 '25
Israel was always their land, they did not make it so. No amount of conquest and colonisation by Muslim Arabs can make it otherwise.
If the British expelled the Irish from Ireland, how much time do the Irish have to retake it before they lose that right? It's completely irrelevant.
Jews did not have family names until they were forced to take them by the European governments they were ruled by. Infact, most Middle Eastern Jews did not even have family names until they came to Israel. This has no relevance to anything.
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u/Deep_Head4645 Jan 10 '25
Your ethnicity doesn’t change no matter for how long you were exiled.
Its decolonisation until it comes to the middle east apparently.
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u/Stepanek740 Jan 11 '25
so why did zionism only pop up as an overtly self described colonial movement in like the very late 19th century and not like... literally any of the other centuries durning which peaceful migration to the land of palestine was perfectly viable
oh right because its not even an ethnic claim, converts to judaism and a jewish diaspora did infact exist pre roman ethnic cleansing oh yeaaaaaa, this is further proven that most modern day israelis dont even really share much dna with the natives of the region while palestinians tend to infact share dna with the ancient inhabitants of the region
also before you pull it out of your ass, using the name palestine to refer to the land is not ethnic cleansing, its a greek name for the region used first in like the 5th century bc which was made as a merger of the names "israel" and "phillistia", the romans named the province by it's region as was the usual and well, it was part of the greater syria region and the region itself was called palestine so they named it syria-palestine, much like cisalpine gaul which was named after gaul but on the itallian side of the alps
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u/Deep_Head4645 Jan 11 '25
- we did return when we could. Lots of times , and every time we were exiled again., + discrimination + didnt let us reform israel.
So much for that
And then you resort to racial theories about us jews “oh well your all converts blah blah blah!”
And the name palestine is not a merger, it was imposed by hadrian to remove Jewish identity from the land, and its called palestine after our biggest enemies, the philistines, which are hebrew for invaders. Its all written history
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u/DistributionVirtual2 Jan 06 '25
Cool, then you're Persian
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u/CatNoBanana123 Jan 06 '25
No, he's Jewish.
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u/Cometmoon448 Jan 06 '25
Playing into the disgusting lie that Jewish people are forever outsiders? That's cool.
Imagine trying that in 20th century Europe.
"I swear, I'm German!"
"No, you're Jewish."
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u/CatNoBanana123 Jan 06 '25 edited Jan 06 '25
Because they are my guy. Even the Jews who tried to assimilate after emancipation in Germany called themselves "Germans of the Mosaic Faith" and not "Germans"
edit: yeah nvm I've looked at your comment history and you straight up support Hamas and you try to brush off what they did. Not going to spend time arguing with you
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u/Deep_Head4645 Jan 10 '25
Trying to call someone racist to because somehow them mentioning someone’s ethnicity automatically means they “dont belong here”
the funniest thing ive seen today
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u/Maturzz Jan 06 '25
probably the only place where the formation of israel wouldn't displace the native population
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u/Itay1708 Jan 08 '25
How is the population higher than OTL Israel despite having no mizrahi jews (which are 50% of Israel's jewish population)
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u/SUUUUUUUUUPAAAAAAA Jan 09 '25
Would they in this universe commit horrendous crimes against the Prussians then?
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u/Eld_Jinn Jun 23 '25
Just like the horrendous crimes the Teutons committed against the Old Pruthenians?
Most of the Prussians were already displaced by the end of WWII and a lot of them fled westwards. The map also shows a tiny German minority.
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u/JUMBO_ROSEN Jan 06 '25
But this is NOT the land "promised" by G-D, according to Exodus 23:31-33 🌹
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u/OFMJ28 Jan 06 '25
Exodus? The Bible isn't a history book.
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u/Deep_Head4645 Jan 10 '25
The promised land is a religious thing from the bible and you’re mad because somebody pointed an inaccuracy here and cited the bible?
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u/JUMBO_ROSEN Jan 07 '25
Of course, the Bible is a history book. Maybe not your history but it is a history book!
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u/OFMJ28 Jan 08 '25
A pseudohistory book. It is in no way, shape or form a history book. It is a book of faith and shouldn't be treated as fact inside of a historical context.
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u/sansboi11 Jan 06 '25
hitler proven right in this timeline 😵
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u/Illustrious-Pop-7982 Jan 06 '25
Don't know why your being down voted. I hate these kinds of maps because it doesn't understand what made denazification possible.
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u/sansboi11 Jan 06 '25
imagine a dictator telling you for years that jews want to control your homeland and that USA and the USSR are run by jews then after your country gets beaten in a war, the USA and USSR turn your entire province into a place for jews exclusively and try to drive you out of your homeland for them to live there instead
denazification would be absolutely impossible in this timeline, there isnt even a justification for east prussia becoming jewish, most jews in prewar germany lived mostly along the rhine or just westward in germany, not to mention the fact that east prussia is literally where the duchy of prussia, the guys who unified germany originated from, this is worse than jews controlling palestine, this would be like the jews controlling mecca or medina
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u/Blarg_III Jan 06 '25
Imagine a dictator telling you for years that Poles are an inferior people in league with your nation's enemies who should be killed and replaced by Germans then after your country gets beaten in a war, the USA and USSR turn your entire province into a place for Poles exclusively and try to drive you out of your homeland for them to live there instead.
denazification would be absolutely impossible in this timeline, there isn't even a justification for east prussia becoming Polish.
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u/Illustrious-Pop-7982 Jan 06 '25
Poles were never the primary enemy of Nazism. There's a difference from your land being given to other Europeans (Poles) and it being given to Jews. And East Prussia was never given to Poland anyways so what even is your argument
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u/tom171771 Jan 06 '25
While I’m not sure the entirety of East Prussia will be given instead of something around the size of Kaliningrad, this is a good one.
Also, there’s no need to worry about the Germans in post-war East Prussia, now Zion or whatever because they already left, either fled during the Soviet advances or expelled during and after the war. That’s why I disagree with a few comments here who said there will be German insurgencies at some point.
The Germans were battered and exhausted by April 1945. Just as they ain’t gonna launch an Iraq-style Werewolf insurgency against the Allied armies in OTL, they ain’t gonna do one here.
Terrorist attacks by German neo-Nazi or any others? I can see that, especially when many Europeans back then were quite antisemitic to say the least. But a protracted insurgency akin to the Iraqi insurgency? No way.