Michael Jackson was performing in Seoul in 1996 when a fan climbed up a crane to reach him. MJ held onto the fan securely to prevent him from falling, all while continuing his performance

[u/Separate_Finance_183]

[u/1ncest_is_wincest → u/[deleted]]

It's not the truth. Michael Jackson was constantly smeared because of his wealth and flamboyant personality. Most of the allegations were financially motivated to extract settlement money.

[u/Vindelator → u/1ncest_is_wincest]

Do you have proof?

[u/Equivalent_Task_8825 → u/1ncest_is_wincest]

Jeeze - it is almost like he crossed boundaries sleeping with small children from vulnerable families who were at risk of being severely harmed by his actions even if he did not rape them.

I want to know how him constantly befriending these types of families makes him come off better in other people's eyes. He was a full grown adult who claimed to care deeply about children so why did he behave opposite their own interests at every point?

Also I think he just raped them. We are assuming a lot to avoid the obvious.

[u/aniamixon → u/Equivalent_Task_8825]

That does not explain why both Cory Feldman and Makulay Culkin have maintained that Jackson was not a creep. Feldman in particular since he has talked about being abused as a child.

[u/Equivalent_Task_8825 → u/aniamixon]

The British Monarchy attested to Jimmy Savile's character.

[u/aniamixon → u/Equivalent_Task_8825]

Like I said why would Feldman lie for Jackson when he has gone as far as to file a police report with the names of hollywood producers.

[u/posts_while_naked → u/Equivalent_Task_8825]

He did cross boundaries, yes. Likely due to his age regression from his traumatic child star upbringing that everybody knows about.

But the more you learn about the allegations against him, the flimsier they become.

And he didn't go out of his way to befriend people - people came to him. Families were clamoring to spend time at Neverland, their kids asked all the time to hang out. That's what all kinds of people who were close to him said.

[u/Equivalent_Task_8825 → u/posts_while_naked]

I don't know about his "age regression" and frankly think it is akin to a child abuser saying their victim is an "old soul".

Michael Jackson was a grown man and in his interviews he showed repeatedly that is capable of normal reasoning for his age on multiple other subject matters.

When it came to appropriate ways to interact with young children he was at beast willfully ignorant of the harm he was causing.

I do not find the allegations flimsy. I find them credible. Years ago you would have been using some of these accusers as support for your argument as they previously defended Michael. It should also be beyond obvious that just because he abused one child doesn't mean he abused another child - especially one who is comparatively more protected due to their fame.

I am also skeptical of how good a judge of character they are if they have seen the same interviews we have seen. Placing their experiences within that context does not require us to make assumptions - we can determine with given facts they are not credible judges of actions.

He was warned repeatedly that it wasn't appropriate to have children around him even if they begged - sometimes even on national television - and he still did it.

Most of what you are saying is just re-formulated rape culture apologetics to suit this particular celebrity.

I believe the multiple victims.

[u/posts_while_naked → u/Equivalent_Task_8825]

OK, so I'm just going to answer point by point on this.

Michael Jackson was a grown man and in his interviews he showed repeatedly that is capable of normal reasoning for his age on multiple other subject matters.

Correct. But crucially, unlike molesters who put on an act to entice and groom children, many people attest to MJ being basically immature and stunted, meaning it was far from some behavior he only showed with certain people.

When it came to appropriate ways to interact with young children he was at beast willfully ignorant of the harm he was causing.

He was ignorant of that, and I myself wouldn't have trusted a person doing what he did, if I didn't already know it was Jackson.

Years ago you would have been using some of these accusers as support for your argument as they previously defended Michael.

Aside from the holes in their stories which have been laid out for years, I find it extremely suspicious that Safechuck and Robson just so happened to remember that they were molested once their careers and personal/family economies took a sharp downturn. Robson in particular got his original suit thrown out of court in 2012, and then a few years later came Leaving Neverland, a "documentary" with no corroborating witnesses and/or evidence at all besides their narrative.

He was warned repeatedly that it wasn't appropriate to have children around him even if they begged - sometimes even on national television - and he still did it.

You could interpret this either way. Either he was flagrant about it, or simply didn't do anything so had nothing to hide.

Most of what you are saying is just re-formulated rape culture apologetics to suit this particular celebrity.

I believe the multiple victims.

What we are saying is based on police reports, evidence, investigations, testimonies, and debunking common misunderstandings about the case.

The thing is, rape and abuse are serious charges. We know from cases like R Kelly, Harvey Weinstein, Orange Man, etc. that courts can judge these offenders just fine, without resorting to mob justice based on vibes.

The people I mentioned were convicted, MJ was not. He was in fact never even taken into custody, despite claims of there being evidence against him.

And when very prominent entertainment figures turn out to have been abusers, what's likely to happen is many victims will come out and tell their stories.

Isn't it odd that the biggest superstar ever, who had so many people around him only had a handful of people ever saying he molested anyone? And isn't it odd that those same people never went to the police first to put a criminal behind bars, but instead just beelined for a civil settlement and a huge cash payout? Would you if your kid had been abused?

[u/drdaisukeserizawa → u/posts_while_naked]

Uh dude, 11 is not a handful of people

[u/joewindlebrox → u/[deleted]]

He openly admitted to sleeping in the same bed as kids unrelated to him. He had millions for defense lawyers who clearly did their job. Sorry, but he did things with children whether you want to believe it or not. At the VERY least he was wildly inappropriate with them.

[u/FambilyMalues → u/joewindlebrox]

Michael quite literally shared beds with people his entire childhood - one because his family was poor and two because he spent it on the road and he used to have to share with his own family as well as other artists, bandmates , etc. at Motown. He spent his entire life sharing beds, rooms and hotels etc because he was always on the road and did not know it was weird. It’s just a quirk of his upbringing, but doesn’t mean he touches kids.

[u/joewindlebrox → u/FambilyMalues]

Why should his "quirk" involve unrelated CHILDREN as a GROWN MAN

[u/deadlywaffle139 → u/joewindlebrox]

What people didn’t realize or hard to accept was that he was practically a child inside. He behaved very immaturely when not on stage. All his life he knew nothing outside of performing due to his father and early fame. He felt more comfortable interacting with kids than adults. Now days he would get therapy etc. But back then he was nothing but a money tree to the adults around them.

[u/FambilyMalues → u/joewindlebrox]

It wasn’t just kids, though, that’s the thing. The media hyper focused on the kids, but it was basically everybody he considered friends or family.

[u/Nervous_Doughnut_256 → u/FambilyMalues]

Except his ex wives ig

[u/Lmfaooliliana_ → u/FambilyMalues]

Girl stop putting this man on a pedestal. You’re weird for that.

[u/FambilyMalues → u/Lmfaooliliana_]

I’m not putting him on a pedestal, I’m being accurate about what was actually occurred.

[u/SampleOfFruits → u/FambilyMalues]

“He doesn’t sleep with children, he only sleeps with children” - you.

[u/wholovesoreos → u/SampleOfFruits]

MJ had motion detectors and monitoring systems outside his bedroom! What is this dude on 😭

[u/Nervous_Doughnut_256 → u/FambilyMalues]

Dude. Listen to yourself

[u/mapledsyrups → u/[deleted]]

no, lol. the first person to make claims against MJ was an estranged father who drugged his son with "truth serum" to try to get him to say he was molested. this was only after MJ wouldn't finance his movie, btw. prior to that he was chill with his son spending time with him. MJ's accusers were NOT upstanding people, and theres more proof of that than of anything else. i'm not even a fan, i used to believe the allegations myself. then i looked into it and was shocked at how obvious the extortion was.

[u/Mountain_Link_588 → u/mapledsyrups]

So even though MJ publicly said he shared his bed with children you still think he didn't?

[u/Lmfaooliliana_ → u/Mountain_Link_588]

The Michael Jackson stans are the fucking worst. “He was a child on the inside” um no he wasn’t though. He was a grown man and if you study his behavior, a grown man with a huge god complex and narcissistic tendencies.

[u/mapledsyrups → u/Mountain_Link_588]

I will give this to MJ detractors, he sucked at advocating for himself and uh, yeah, this looks bad lol. but looking bad isn't the same as molesting someone. vibes =/= facts. it's comforting to believe that you can sus out predators based on feelings, isn't it? :p instead of the truth, which is that child molesters appear very fucking normal the vast majority of the time.

You're probably not still reading, but for any curious bystanders: MJ did let kids stay in his "room", which was the size of an apartment. when he talks about "sharing" his bed, he means in the sense that he would give up his bed for them and sleep somewhere else, usually on the floor. sometimes kids would fall asleep in his bed while he was there, at which point he would go sleep elsewhere. all of this is corroborated by others who had similar relationships with him. anyone who wasn't out to get money from him vehemently defended him. next "gotcha"?

[u/Nervous_Doughnut_256 → u/mapledsyrups]

He said on tv that he shared his bed with children ffs

[u/UsedWorker3295 → u/[deleted]]

It's not clear. You have fallen for misinformation and are ignorant about the facts.

[u/joewindlebrox → u/UsedWorker3295]

Its not clear? He gave an interview where he talked about sleeping with children, what could be clearer than him saying it himself?

[u/UsedWorker3295 → u/joewindlebrox]

I'm responding to someone saying "it's clear he didn't molest".

[u/bichwank69 → u/[deleted]]

What was the verdict of his 2005 trial again?

[u/L3ACH13 → u/bichwank69]

$$$

[u/LieFearless1968 → u/L3ACH13]

Yup, think it was $4 million the DA spent on investigations yet came out with nothing (despite the bias of the police and judge both on his side)

[u/Korsof → u/bichwank69]

It's useless to argue with these idiots, leave it be