r/massachusetts • u/HAV816 • 1d ago

Photo Question 9 cont…

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Question 9 is a veto referendum on the 2024 gun law (Chapter 135): a NO vote repeals it. But here is what does not change either way — Massachusetts still requires a license to own or carry, and safety training to get one. Repeal the law and the pre-2024 rules remain, among the strictest in the country: licenses required, safety training required, sales tracked, red-flag petitions in place.

The 2024 law adds burdens on lawful owners — serialization requirements, expanded bans, a real-time registry — without creating the training standard. Training was required before this law, and it stays required whether the law is repealed or not.
Learn the facts

506 Upvotes

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51

u/Equal_Audience_3415 1d ago

The 'Civil Rights Coalition' is a far-right organization. Their current Chair is: Toby Leary, who is also the co-owner of Cape Gun Works.

This tells me all I need to know.

12

u/Wf2968 1d ago

I’m a leftist and an LTC owner in MA. The law as it is written is about as confusing and childish as it could possibly be. It’s like you asked an alien to describe a fish. That’s how jumbled the law is. Did you know the law doesn’t define a rifle as a gun? That’s the kind of stuff I’m talking about. So yea some far right guy doesn’t like it, but if you blindly just vote the other way, you’re equally part of the problem as any right winger is.

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u/Equal_Audience_3415 1d ago

While true, that doesn't mean you should repeal the law without a replacement ready.

Figure out how it should be remedied and then correct it.

6

u/Phoenix-624 1d ago

We already had a huge amount of gun control pre 2024, this wouldnt remove all gun control from this state, it would just kick back this giant bloated disaster of a firearms bill that got through due to some BS emergency powers.

3

u/wreckedbutwhole420 1d ago

The pre2024 laws were sufficient, we don't need a replacement for HB 4885

37

u/Nipple-Less_Cage-6 1d ago

Plenty of leftist people agree with Toby.

34

u/bad_squishy_ Central Mass 1d ago

I’m pretty far left and I agree with Toby. I want universal healthcare, climate change addressed, equal rights for all, and common sense gun control, but this bill ain’t it. It’s a shit show. I think it needs to be repealed and rewritten entirely.

16

u/king_hutton 1d ago

Go far enough left and you get your guns back.

11

u/Nipple-Less_Cage-6 1d ago

Most leftist agree with you.

1

u/Impossible_Sphinx 1d ago

I'm having such a hard time deciding how to vote because the bill is so lengthy and confusing, and people on both sides are making such dire claims. Even my gun-owning liberal husband is undecided.

3

u/bad_squishy_ Central Mass 1d ago

It’s a very poorly written and not very well thought out bill. We had excellent gun control before this. It can’t hurt to make them go back to the drawing board imo.

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u/Equal_Audience_3415 1d ago

You can make them go back to the drawing board, but leave this intact before correcting it.

1

u/wreckedbutwhole420 1d ago

That is not how lawmaking works, especially in MA.

If this doesn't get voted down, they are not going to correct it.

0

u/Equal_Audience_3415 1d ago

Rewrite it, then replace it.

0

u/Nipple-Less_Cage-6 1d ago

I love how this is your solution. They won’t do it. They will keep this in place if it isn’t repealed. How do I know this? We voted for an audit we still haven’t gotten yet.

9

u/king_hutton 1d ago

Under no pretext!

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u/Nipple-Less_Cage-6 1d ago

Um what? There are several organizations that are left leaning that support a no vote on this law. Get out from under your rock?

6

u/king_hutton 1d ago

You’re completely misunderstanding what those 3 words mean in this context, but I’m sure those organizations understand.

2

u/Nipple-Less_Cage-6 1d ago

Love cryptic Reddit commentators.

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u/king_hutton 1d ago


“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary”.

It’s a very common phrase among leftists.

-12

u/GWS2004 1d ago

Plenty of "leftist" people are really far right.

6

u/HackedVirus North Shore 1d ago

Im way further left than you bud, and im voting no on 9. Get your head out of your ass.

5

u/Nipple-Less_Cage-6 1d ago

Or maybe they aren’t? Why is it always so black and white with you people?

2

u/Theor_84 Greater Boston 1d ago

What do you mean by "you people"

-3

u/Nipple-Less_Cage-6 1d ago

Hard headed liberals who thing they’re for people but are only for themselves?

0

u/Equal_Audience_3415 1d ago

Plenty is kind of strong, but that doesn't make the Civil Rights Coalition any less far-right.

0

u/Nipple-Less_Cage-6 1d ago

You’ve done nothing to prove it’s a far right organization.

1

u/Equal_Audience_3415 1d ago

Look it up.

0

u/Nipple-Less_Cage-6 1d ago

Read the replies to your comment.

1

u/Equal_Audience_3415 1d ago edited 1d ago

The American Civil Rights Coalition is Ward Connerly's conservative, anti-affirmative action organization based in Sacramento, California. It shares the same address as the American Civil Rights Institute.

I used Sourcewatch.org for this information.

Ballotpedia also volunteered this information, though it did look as if the conservative part was recently scrubbed.

Edited to add: Ward Connerly is MAGA and considers himself a "Super Patriot" just like White Nationalists.

10

u/idio242 1d ago

The name alone has me seeing a screen full of eagles soaring and flags waving - but not in a good way.

1

u/bouche_bag 1d ago

What a worthless argument for a ballot question. Label the other side as "the enemy" and you no longer need to support your position with logic.

0

u/Equal_Audience_3415 1d ago

No one said they were the enemy. Merely that they were a far-right organization.

My position is, that while I may not agree with parts of the bill, I do agree with others. I would work on a new bill and replace it, rather than just throwing it out.

1

u/bouche_bag 1d ago

Your response here isn't consistent with your prior comment. You're not being genuine. Your prior comment "That tells me all I need to know" only makes sense if you have a polarized notion of alleged "far-right organizations." Those two statements are only linked in this context if you demonize the "far-right organizations" as an enemy. 

1

u/Equal_Audience_3415 1d ago

Hardly, but nice try.

It is a free country, for now. They have a right to be a fascist organization. I have the right not to have anything to do with them. That doesn't make them an enemy. It makes them wrong.

I don't demonize anything; their actions do that on their own.

1

u/bouche_bag 1d ago

They have a right to be a fascist organization.

I have the right not to have anything to do with them.

It makes them wrong. 

Kinda sounds like you treat them like they're an enemy. Which is okay, just be honest about it. You're calling fascism, which evokes images of Hitler, Stalin, etc. I see them as enemies. Fascism is my enemy. I hope they're your enemies too. Just be honest about what you're doing. It's an association fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

It's just not convincing argument against a nuanced issue like this ballot question. Even if the organizations associated with it aren't good, it doesn't mean we can use that to dismiss every action they take. At least not convincingly.

1

u/Equal_Audience_3415 1d ago

You would be right to associate them with Hitler.

As for the question, everyone needs to do their own research. Read the law and decide for themselves how to vote.

Don't trust fascists to have your best interest at heart.

1

u/bouche_bag 1d ago

As for the question, everyone needs to do their own research. Read the law and decide for themselves how to vote. 

Awesome, I'm glad we can agree on that rather than seeing who supports it and saying, "This tells me all I need to know."

1

u/wreckedbutwhole420 1d ago

"don't trust fascists but support unconstitutional gun control so the fascists are the only ones with guns"

That's basically the vibe you're giving off

1

u/andykuan 1d ago

Well that's the sad thing about this. So many of the organized voices saying "no to 9" are either right-wing-coded or associated with groups who subscribe to all manner of other MAGA looniness. It's unhelpful.

Among your left-leaning neighbors, co-workers, friends are gun owners. The burden imposed by 135 isn't going to just hit the loud MAGA mouth-breather that you're picturing, the one who delights in violent militia fantasies. It's also hitting law-abiding liberals who just happen to own guns and hunt, or shoot clays, or plink tin cans with their kid.

1

u/Equal_Audience_3415 1d ago

How is this law preventing you from doing any of these things?

-1

u/Brave-Kitchen-5654 1d ago

How does “owner of a business” equal far right?

1

u/FreshTony 1d ago

You dont know how to read do you? You notice how those are 2 separate sentences and the commenter didnt say "this gun shop owner is the chair of a far right organization because he owns a gun shop".

-1

u/Nipple-Less_Cage-6 1d ago

Apparently if you own a business you’re a Trumper in MA

0

u/BombasticAghast 1d ago

Source that they are a far right org?

1

u/GeneralSpot7224 1d ago

Tobey Leary spoke at the Mass GOP convention on 4/25/2026. Go look up mass gop leadership and their positions. 

2

u/BombasticAghast 1d ago

As much as I disagree with his politics and the GOP as a whole, that doesn’t make the organization far right

1

u/GeneralSpot7224 1d ago

You think the Mass GOP is inviting moderates to speak at their convention? 

3

u/BombasticAghast 1d ago

I’m not trying to elect this dude. You just can’t designate a bipartisan org as far right without reasoning.

0

u/GeneralSpot7224 1d ago

Mass GOP is a bipartisan organization? 

Who in this org’s leadership spoke as the Mass Dem convention? Show me some actual bipartisanship in this organization. 

2

u/BombasticAghast 1d ago

No the civil rights coalition, you walnut. Your original claim.

0

u/GeneralSpot7224 1d ago

The “civil rights coalition” founded by the GOP guy, genius. 

Again  Who in this org’s leadership spoke as the Mass Dem convention? Show me some actual bipartisanship in this organization. 

2

u/BombasticAghast 1d ago

You gotta ask the Dems why they wouldn’t invite a guns rights activist to speak, not the other way around.

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