Question 9 cont…

[u/HAV816]

Question 9 is a veto referendum on the 2024 gun law (Chapter 135): a NO vote repeals it. But here is what does not change either way — Massachusetts still requires a license to own or carry, and safety training to get one. Repeal the law and the pre-2024 rules remain, among the strictest in the country: licenses required, safety training required, sales tracked, red-flag petitions in place.

The 2024 law adds burdens on lawful owners — serialization requirements, expanded bans, a real-time registry — without creating the training standard. Training was required before this law, and it stays required whether the law is repealed or not.
Learn the facts

[u/Kindly-Magician-78]

I’m a little more right leaning but I’m glad to hear that!

You’re 100% right in that our gun laws were already very strict and we have a low gun violence rate.

Guns are everywhere in this country and criminals don’t care about the law and will get them anyways. Pandora’s box has been opened and there’s no closing it.

Laws this strict just affect law abiding citizens who would like to protect themselves.

Also have to take into consideration NH, which has basically no state gun laws, has lower gun violence than us.

I’m not opposed to the LTC process and background checks but the laws as they stand are too strict for law abiding people trying to do everything legally

I wish guns weren’t such a politically charged issue, every law abiding American with no severe mental health issues deserves the right to defend themselves

[u/genderQueerHipster → u/Kindly-Magician-78]

You're gonna find most leftists, not liberals, are more open to having guns responsible.

Anyway I'm also voting no.

Question on NH gun violence is it low per capita compare to the rest of the states, or just low. I'd figure for NH the gun violence would be more on the hunting side then, I dunno, armed robbery.

[u/Noodletrousers → u/genderQueerHipster]

Low per capita. It’s lower than some European countries gun related homicides!

[u/PuppiesAndPixels → u/Kindly-Magician-78]

NH has about 3 times more gun violence per capita than Massachusetts. Of course in totality they have less but that's only because there's about as many people in Boston alone than there are in all of new hampshire.

It makes absolutely no sense to compare total number of gun deaths or gun violence incidents over the rates or per capita stats.

[u/DudeBad → u/PuppiesAndPixels]

That is actually not true. MA have a higher gun violence per capita rate then new Hampshire. but NH has a higher gun death per capita due to the fact that gun death rates include suicide

Not to say suicides aren't horrible and tragic but you are more likely to be attacked with a gun in Massachusetts then New Hampshire and that includes per capita

[u/L-V-4-2-6 → u/PuppiesAndPixels]

The issue is these numbers often lump in suicides by firearm with homicides by firearm and count them as the same even though they're completely different problems.

NH's gun deaths are largely from suicide, as is the case just about everywhere.

[u/Noodletrousers → u/L-V-4-2-6]

This is exactly right. Gun related Homicide rates are the lowest in the country in NH. NH along with Maine and VT, have some of if not, the least gun regulations and restrictions in the U.S. with the lowest gun crime in the country too. Correlation doesn’t equal causation, but it does show that gun ownership in and of itself doesn’t equate to gun violence.

[u/drocks27 → u/Noodletrousers]

I would argue that suicide via a gun, is still gun violence

[u/L-V-4-2-6 → u/drocks27]

Do we consider hanging, which is the means most commonly used in MA to commit suicide, rope violence?

[u/Kindly-Magician-78 → u/L-V-4-2-6]

Exactly I am talking about murders with guns

[u/katielovestrees → u/L-V-4-2-6]

To me this feels like splitting hairs. Suicide is not violence because it's not inflicted against another person? I care about people dying, period.

[u/L-V-4-2-6 → u/katielovestrees]

The details matter though. The motivations behind suicide and homicide are ultimately different and require different approaches to mitigate. To categorize them as the same thing does a disservice to both respective issues.

Edit: it should also be noted that the most common means of suicide in MA is by hanging, not using a firearm. It's difficult to regulate something you can get at any hardware store, and it's ultimately the reason why focusing on the means instead of the "why" doesn't really fix the problem.

[u/HappyRedFox → u/katielovestrees]

People who want to commit suicide have many options. They can jump from the window or roof of a tall building or can overdose on prescription drugs or can hang themselves.

[u/Whiskey_echo_617 → u/PuppiesAndPixels]

Now do homicides...and look at Springfield

[u/Beretta92A1 → u/PuppiesAndPixels]

And we have practically zero restrictions and still one of the safest states.

Mind you three times a small number is still a small number.

[u/Truthseeker308 → u/Beretta92A1]

And yet Florida follows NH’s lead, yet gets MASSIVELY different, and worse, outcomes.

NH is an exception, not the rule.

[u/Beretta92A1 → u/Truthseeker308]

Dude they grow humans different down there. Something in the swamp water.

[u/suprisinglycontent → u/PuppiesAndPixels]

They also got a shit education system. There’s also a correlation with states having low-education with easy access to guns.

[u/Commercial-Ad1518 → u/Kindly-Magician-78]

I have two issues. When I was a kid I remember a guy in Texas who was a model armed citizen until a tumor grew on his brain and he started shooting everyone in site. I honestly don't think any of us can be certain we won't go nuts for some reason. The other reason is I can honestly say I can think of almost no cases of anyone actually defending themselves with a gun, I'm sure it happens very occasionally. On the other hand, I'm sure I could very easily name 2 or three times this week multiple children were slaughtered for the crime of going to school. I guess it's just what you care about.

[u/Lost_Technician_5421 → u/Kindly-Magician-78]

Trash take.

[u/Kindly-Magician-78 → u/Lost_Technician_5421]

Great response! Glad to hear your detailed opinion

[u/Lost_Technician_5421 → u/Kindly-Magician-78]

“Criminals will find a way” why does Massachusetts have some of the lowest gun deaths in the country? We are insulated by states with strict gun laws and have the strictest gun laws, gun laws work. Even against these criminal masterminds you created to justify children being murdered by lax gun laws. A trash take.

People who own guns are far more likely to be harmed by the guns in their home (by accident or used against them by a family member) than to defend themselves against crime (such as home invasion or robbery). So using self defense to justify not maintain strict gun laws, trash take.

New Hampshire has lower gun violence due to their socioeconomic make up and population size, it’s not a great comparison, aka a trash take.

I wish guns weren’t so political too, but because I wish children weren’t being murdered daily in our country by them because people like you have a deranged idea that having a gun is some sort of god given right, while our government has decided that bodily autonomy and healthcare are NOT rights. I don’t know, or care, who or what you vote for, what I DO know is your spouting off NRA talking points defending the same guns that make sending my kids off to school an anxiety inducing moment, that murder women in domestic violence conflicts every day, that create such a surplus of guns in our country that getting one illegally is easy, and getting one legally in many states is easy too. Just so some people who shit on the constitution daily, can act like one amendment made 250 years ago shouldn’t be regulated.

Your takes are TRASH because they are NRA talking points you’ve been brain washed with your whole life. Children deserve safety, gun owners should ensure that safety by JUMPING THROUGH AS MANY HOOPS AS POSSIBLE to own a gun.

[u/Lost_Technician_5421 → u/[deleted]]

Sure, concentrated poverty (lower socioeconomic conditions) is due to many factors, depending on the area and industry in the area. BUT economic inequality and limited social supports (well funded schools, sports, and youth programs) are often followed by lower socioeconomic conditions, which limits things such as gun education, social mobility and housing stability. People who live in a lower socioeconomic area are not prone to violence in any way, but the conditions which concentrated poverty can create can be precursors to violence. So when there is concentrated poverty, violence can be an outcome. In the United States violence often includes guns and can increase gun violence.

[u/Lost_Technician_5421 → u/[deleted]]

It’s about concentrated poverty, as I stated in the explainer comment. Massachusetts as a whole has higher average income because of higher population and increased industry. NH has lower income due to less population and less industry opportunities. NH Also has less concentrated areas of poverty due to many factors, but lack of urban areas is one of them. They also did not suffer the collapse of an industry in the last 50-70 years (see coal mining, steel industry, auto industry) around the country. You’re being intentionally obtuse but that’s ok!

[u/EpiSG → u/Lost_Technician_5421]

How rude of you to assume this person is being intentionally obtuse when they are trying to engage in a good faith conversation...

[u/Lost_Technician_5421 → u/EpiSG]

Hi! I’m being intentionally rude because because are nitpicking meaningful stats that PREVENT CHILDREN FROM BEING MURDERED IN THEIR SCHOOLS. GUNS MURDER PEOPLE. IM BEING RUDE ON PURPOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[u/Kindly-Magician-78 → u/Lost_Technician_5421]

How did the guy who was a convicted felon get an AR pistol and shoot up random cars in Boston?

If you could erase every gun in the world then yes I’m sure things would be safer but as I mentioned Pandora’s box has been opened and there are literally more guns than people in america. No matter what happens there will still be hundreds of millions of guns in circulation.

And again like i said im not against background checks or LTC or anything like that but if you are a law abiding citizen you should be allowed to protect yourself

And the gun rates are per capita so NH being lower still says alot regardless of “socio economic makeup”

And gun owners “being more likely to accidentally hurt themself or hurt someone in their home” is such a small statistic. Tens of thousands die annually from car accidents. Owning a car and driving or even riding in a car is more dangerous than owning a gun if you do what the state already required you to do before the recent laws were passed - take a gun safety class, background checks, and all of that

[u/Lost_Technician_5421 → u/Kindly-Magician-78]

Yea hey, just FYI bringing up indivdual circumstances, trash take.
Driving a car isn’t a right protected by the constitution and is highly regulated so that, again is a trash take. Nice try! Enjoy your NRA takes today while children die!!

[u/Kindly-Magician-78 → u/Lost_Technician_5421]

lol owning a gun in mass was more highly regulated than driving a car pre 2024. I’m not even saying we should erase all gun laws but the laws enacted in 2024 are pointless and unnecessarily strict. Not gonna continue this argument but have a good weekend!

[u/singlemale4cats → u/Lost_Technician_5421]

If you get a driver's license in any state, you can legally drive in any other. The same should apply for carry permits. You can also buy as many cars as you want, and no one's going to tell you the car you bought has too many racing features, is too fast, has too many modifications, etc.

I'm all for making owning guns more like driving!

[u/Lost_Technician_5421 → u/singlemale4cats]

Hi! The intention of driving a car is to transport yourself to another place. The intention of a gun is to murder/hunt. There are actual limitations on your car in MA, we have inspection stickers and your car will not pass inspection with those features, because we regulate drivers licenses (including drivers education), registration, inspection, and insurance. Hope this helps to not making the comparison ever again. Intention matters! Regulation is quite strict on driving! Have a good stupid life!

[u/singlemale4cats → u/Lost_Technician_5421]

All I can say is keep doing what you're doing. The more snarky, the better. I want everyone who reads your posts to adopt the opposite position entirely because they dislike you.