r/movies • • Aug 17 '26

Spoilers Has any sequel successfully pulled off a hero's heel turn into villainy? Spoiler

Plenty of standalone movies have a character fall from grace, or be revealed as a villain all along, but this rarely happens with an established character in a sequel. On paper it's a solid twist because you've already grown to trust that character in previous films, but it's really hard to pull off without feeling like a betrayal of a character arc. The Mission Impossible series has one that was received very poorly, and the only reason I hear about Pacific Rim Uprising these days is people talking about how unearned the heel turn from one of the characters felt.

I struggle to think of an example where it was done successfully in a movie. There's more examples in TV I think since there's a much longer time to build a change in a character over multiple seasons, so I'm not really considering those. Since it did start with a movie series, though, and there really isn't too much of an extended character arc given in the show, the example I can think of that kind of works is Sharon Carter in Falcon and the Winter Soldier. It was still super underdeveloped and it doesn't seem like they're going to do anything with it, but I can at least track the betrayal logic since there was kind of a meta angle about how that character had been forgotten by the movies. But even that's rather clunky.

I'm also talking specifically about situations where it wasn't clearly telegraphed by the source material or the rest of the franchise. Anakin becoming Vader was already known to the audience, for instance. I'm on the fence about whether something like Dune counts, since it's in the source material and the first two films are kind of just one long movie. I'm particularly interested in situations where it clearly wasn't the plan in the first movie but was written into a sequel.

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115

u/Aureus23 Aug 17 '26

Paul from Dune. 

45

u/_The_Bearded_Wonder_ Aug 18 '26

I don't doubt the third film will stick the landing and it will be quite something to see people realize the person they have been rooting for was the villain. 

21

u/ThadVonP Aug 18 '26

So funny to me because by the end of the second film, I couldn't see why anyone would be cheering him on.

37

u/Toloc42 Aug 18 '26

Apparently Frank Herbert was so distraught at people painting first book Paul as a pure hero, that he put a scene in the second book spelling it out.

Emperor Paul, in a rare quiet moment, stands on a balcony at night and reminisces about the crusades across the galaxy, raging in his name: "Wow. I'm worse than that one ancient guy from old Earth history... what's his name again? Oh yeah, Hitler. I'm worse than Hitler."

(Very roughly paraphrased and probably inaccurate in details, it's been a while.)

18

u/SimoneNonvelodico Aug 18 '26

I mean he's very self-aware about it.

The thing with Paul is that he's clearly more of a "forced to be a villain to make things happen that need to happen" kind of character, almost completely pre-determined by external forces, and extremely outspoken about it. In fact he does almost nothing but complain about it. He's like Napoleon, if Napoleon went into it knowing full well what would happen and did it all purely for the sake of fulfilling his role in History. Waged a lot of wars, killed a lot of people, but ultimately that watershed moment of fervour spilling out of a single place finally broke a stagnant political order that needed to be swept away.

50

u/TubasAreFun Aug 18 '26

His terrible purpose. Books did it better but the 3rd movie (corresponding to the 2nd book) should help cement how villainous Paul can be

14

u/Dismal_Engineering71 Aug 18 '26

Will they bring up the hitler conversation? Probably not.

7

u/EnkiduOdinson Aug 18 '26

Been a while since I read the books. Remind me again what the Hitler conversation was?

20

u/zzay Aug 18 '26

Paul notes that Hitler's six million deaths were "pretty good for those days," pointing out that his own religious crusade has dwarfed that number by slaughtering 61 billion people

2

u/PenguinOfEternity Aug 18 '26

So tens of thousand of years in the future Hitler is still a known figure it seems?

1

u/EAE8019 Aug 19 '26

No he isn't. Paul can see the past and  future so he knows him. But the person hes talking to asks if Hitler killed those 6 million personally was a laser gun.

1

u/zzay Aug 18 '26

apparently...

weird though other villians murder way more...

10

u/Love-That-Danhausen Aug 18 '26

To really drive home the point of how bad the jihad was, Herbert has Paul compare himself to Hitler (and that Paul had killed far more people)

2

u/Dapup2465 Aug 18 '26

I just wonder how they re-route movie Chani back towards book Chani.

6

u/HellyOHaint Aug 18 '26

I thought the end of the second film did that very well.

0

u/The-Insolent-Sage Aug 18 '26

How was he villainous?

-3

u/Tuorom Aug 18 '26

Listen to the music that plays when he's walking to take the water of life lol

1

u/The-Insolent-Sage Aug 18 '26

Answer my question?

-1

u/Tuorom Aug 18 '26

What did he do to take control?

1

u/The-Insolent-Sage Aug 18 '26

Killed those who conspired to kill his father?

0

u/zzay Aug 18 '26

No not really... It's way worse

1

u/OldMan0101 Aug 18 '26

Yeah - especially after the 3rd movie - I think this will be the best answer yo OP's original question.