r/anime • u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ • 20d ago
Rewatch AREA 88 TV (2004) Rewatch Episode 12 FINAL
AREA 88 TV Episode 12
"This is Zero-Zero Section, Kazama Shin."
Lock On / Kaze no Tsubasa (Wings of the Wind)
TV Episode 11 | Index Thread | OVA and TV Discussion
This is a TV Only thread!
Tomorrow's Discussion, Today!
Tomorow's discussion covers both the TV and comparisons with the OVA.
- What do you think their goal was in creating the TV version? Do you think they succeeded?
- Could this have worked as a full length series? Should they have made a faithful adaptation of the full manga?
- What do you think of rewriting to give Rocky a real character arc?
- Should Japanese fighter jet anime stick to Ikenai Borderline, Highway to the Danger Zone, or Anthem for their BGM?
- Best and worst plane representation in TV and OVA?
- Did any OVA arc or aspect benefit from the extra time?
- Taking off the nostalgia glasses for two weeks ago, do you think parts of the OVA come off rushed or half baked after watching a second version?
Imagine adapting something multiple times and they are all anime-only plots oh wait there's Appleseed- How did playing the same story out twice, back-to-back, work for you? Would you do that same for, like, GitS? Spice & Wolf? FMA?
The Cyber Trance CD can be found on youtube here.
Trivia: Believe it or not, this is yet another entry in our long series of Ryosuke Takahashi affiliated mecha rewatches.
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u/BosuW 20d ago
First Timer
Not a very loud helicopter when Makoto is leaving. They're practically murmuring yet can hear each other just fine lol
Well that bastard Kanzaki really almost got Shin kill as his petty taunting caused him to desert and nearly get shot down. In a way though Makoto paid him back for saving him earlier with his message that he was gonna tell Ryoko that he was still alive and loyal. So Shin can stomach getting those scores back or completing his service with this reassurance.
Was satisfying enough. I don't think I can talk about this episode's significance narratively without involving the whole anime and even the OVA, so I'll leave that for tomorrow.
Let's do one last plane trivia instead! Already briefly talked about the F-5 Freedom Fighter and F-5 Tiger II in the OVA but I figure I can expand a bit.
At the time it was conceptualized in the late 50s, it was noted that fighter jets had been getting bigger, more complicated, and more expensive to buy and maintain. They also featured increasingly complex and advanced electronics that could not be exported to countries without absolute proven loyalty to the US and NATO. This had the effect of creating, even within NATO itself, gaps in the line of Air Forces against the Soviet threat, that the Soviets themselves were able to better fit for their comrades with their cheaper fighters like the Mig-21.
The F-5's concept was a break from the trend of bigger more complex Western fighters. It would be light, cheap, very easy to maintain, tough, and lacking any electronic system that was deemed unnecessary. Initial versions didn't have an air search radar, internal navigation and the like. It wasn't meant to dominate an air war with long range missiles, but close in using it's small size and speed and cause casualties in a knife fight.
The prototypes were noted to perform excellently in every required aspect except payload and range, which are eternal weak spots for any light fighter even today. Thanks to its accessibility and government sponsorship, it quickly became an export success, and the US and South Vietnamese Air Forces would give it it's baptism of fire in the Vietnam War, where it performed admirably. One of its main advantages in a high intensity conflict was discovered to be it's high turnover rate. It could be repaired and re-equiped faster than any other fighter jet, and perform more sorties.
Here's combat footage of the F-5C Freedom Fighter in Vietnam The US called these "Skoshi Tigers" or Small Tigers. I'm 99% sure the first word came from the Japanese for small, "sukoshi". Why the surprise Japanese? Dunno lol
As the F-5 found success in Vietnam, a much upgraded version, generally more powerful, with some electronics, the F-5 E/F Tiger II was developed, entering service in 1974 and immediately performing as an "Aggressor" aircraft since 1975 and I believe until today, or at least until recently. Aggressor aircraft are what the US call aircraft you dogfight against during training. The F-5 was found ideal in this role due to its similar performance to light Soviet fighters.
During the Ogaden War of 77 between Ethiopia and Somalia, the F-5 enjoyed a very one sided conflict in its favor against Somalian migs. During the Iran-Iraq War, while still useful and scoring many victories (among them even a Mig-25 Foxbat), it's deficiencies due to lack of electronics became evident. Nonetheless, it is rumored an Iranian F-5 performed a successful strike against a US base in the recent conflict.
Some countries still operate the F-5 in its base form or in modified more advanced versions, even though its time has clearly passed. Regardless, it proved that the concept of a light fighter was viable and necessary, and that was it's main legacy, which lived on mainly as the F-16.
I'm gonna try and export my Mexican Air Force F-5E/F Tiger II footage from last year's FAMEX today, so hopefully I can show some of that tomorrow!
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u/Heda-of-Aincrad https://myanimelist.net/profile/Heda-of-Aincrad 20d ago
First-Time Viewer in Area 88
Two more major plot points from the OVA were reimagined here, Shin's attempted desertion and [OVA] all of the pilots from Area 88 flying alongside him - except this time, the tone was very different as they were ready to shoot him down, rather than seeing him off in a heartwarming show of camaraderie. I'm not sure how to feel about that because while I do like this scene too, and it was suitably tense leading up to the conclusion, the OVA version was perhaps my favorite scene of the entire story, so I did miss that feel-good moment and Saki in particular suffered from this change [OVA] instead of being the guy who defended Shin during his first attempt to desert, and later letting him out of his contract early. Ideally, a combination of both storylines with this scene first and then mirrored later in the one from the OVA would have been fantastic.
Makoto's storyline had a nice ending with at least a few people, Shin included, recognizing the change in him and Kitri managing to salvage his camera from the fire. Letting Ryuko know that Shin is still alive was the best thing he could have done for him too. A few episodes ago, I said a picture of Shin alive would be a great way for Makoto to tell Kanzaki that he quits, but the one of Ryuko running away in her wedding dress is even better!
In comparison to the OVA, this ending captures some of the same ideas [OVA] like Shin returning to battle, though out of necessity rather than choice due to a change in mindset this time, and Ryuko waiting for him but with a slightly more uplifting tone overall. Shin is still determined to make it back to Japan someday, and Ryuko has declared her wish to marry him when that day comes, so even though a reunion between these star-crossed lovers didn't happen (yet?), there's hope that they might be together again someday, which made me happy to see.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 20d ago
Nice catch on those thematic and character reversals!
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u/BosuW 20d ago
The downgrade for Saki is very disappointing considering in the OVA he ended up one of the most interesting characters. And here he even had a family member with him so I was expecting the to squeeze even more juice out of that conflict.
Alas, it didn't matter at all.
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u/Heda-of-Aincrad https://myanimelist.net/profile/Heda-of-Aincrad 20d ago
Did this version even mention [OVA] Saki and Kitri being members of the ruling family this whole rebellion was centered around? In a previous thread, I remembered to spoiler tag it at the last minute because it hadn't come up yet, and then... it just didn't? I was hoping we'd get even more details on their situation with his cousin there now.
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u/BosuW 20d ago
Yep, it is never mentioned. It is at most suggested in the episode where Kitri arrives at the base and Saki starts talking about special accomodations before she immediately interrupts him. You could deduce a bit from that, but certainly not how truly substantial their lore is and it's significance to the setting.
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u/Heda-of-Aincrad https://myanimelist.net/profile/Heda-of-Aincrad 20d ago
Yeah, if I'd heard that line without seeing the OVA first, I would have just assumed they meant special accommodations for women.
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee 20d ago
First-Timer
I'm a little disappointed that we didn't go full soap opera and have Makoto interrupt the wedding while it was in progress. I guess that trope might be too American to show up here.
It's kinda funny that everyone was real upset about Makoto being on base to take a photo of Shin's corpse, but they also were drooling at the 200k bounty for killing Shin. It's not surprising that they're all hypocrites, but it is amusing. I kinda expected better from Mickey.
This sort of non-ending is about what I expected from the era, but it was still kinda annoying. Would a sappy reunion have been better? We would've at least probably gotten a cool final action scene of Shin escaping..
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u/Heda-of-Aincrad https://myanimelist.net/profile/Heda-of-Aincrad 20d ago
I'm a little disappointed that we didn't go full soap opera and have Makoto interrupt the wedding while it was in progress. I guess that trope might be too American to show up here.
I was hoping to see it truly go full soap opera with Shin (the supposedly dead former lover) interrupting the wedding.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 20d ago
It's really unfortunate Shin wrecked his F-5, instead of showing up alive at the wedding after Kanzaki had produced a death certificate.
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u/Heda-of-Aincrad https://myanimelist.net/profile/Heda-of-Aincrad 20d ago
The look on everyone's faces would have been priceless.
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u/BosuW 20d ago
He should've down a low fly-by of the Church tower with afterburners on đ¤đ¤
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 20d ago
That would be a great ending. But as we are rewriting the ending, he needs to land a harrier on the church lawn.
And stuff ryoko in the cockpit with him.
watch at least 3 episodes of Vandread
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u/TehAxelius https://anilist.co/user/TehAxelius 20d ago
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u/Heda-of-Aincrad https://myanimelist.net/profile/Heda-of-Aincrad 20d ago
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee 20d ago
You're right, that would've been even better!
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 20d ago
When you're going to go full anime-only, why not go FULL ANIME-ONLY.
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u/chilidirigible 20d ago
I'm a little disappointed that we didn't go full soap opera and have Makoto interrupt the wedding while it was in progress. I guess that trope might be too American to show up here.
This is how you do a full soap opera wedding interruption in America in 1985. (Of course, almost everyone got much better in three months' time.)
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u/BosuW 20d ago
I'm a little disappointed that we didn't go full soap opera and have Makoto interrupt the wedding while it was in progress. I guess that trope might be too American to show up here.
I thought Shin might slam the Church doors open and shout "I object!" Lol
It's kinda funny that everyone was real upset about Makoto being on base to take a photo of Shin's corpse, but they also were drooling at the 200k bounty for killing Shin. It's not surprising that they're all hypocrites, but it is amusing. I kinda expected better from Mickey.
Some of the OVAs commentary on war remains here in that little detail. You don't wanna think you've been twisting into considering everything through the lens of scores and penalties, but in the end, Saki knows that money talks.
Except for Kitri, but if you saw the OVA, you know her priorities are likely other.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 19d ago
I guess that trope might be too American to show up here.
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u/uhhhhhhhokay_ https://myanimelist.net/profile/uhhhhhhhokay 20d ago
First-timer, subbed
Kaze no Tsubasa? Will Lucia Maverick be making a cameo? (No one here is going to get this reference...)
Allâs well that ends well, I suppose. Shin tries to desert, then changes his mind after everyone talks him down (and after a conveniently timed enemy attack). On the other side of things, Ryoko ditches that Kanzaki loser and goes full runaway bride. And the world keeps turning!
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 20d ago
I do like that he only dropped his tanks after learning that Makoto was going to stop the wedding. Otherwise he would have kept going. They'd have to kill him to stop him.
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u/zsmg https://anilist.co/user/zsmg 20d ago
Area 88 TV rewatcher
The sound of his chutter has changed, so has he.Â
Sometimes I wonder if Shin is still stuck in his chuuni phase.
Shin is finally going to desert.
Mickey is reading a play girl magazine, not only is he gay, he's openly gay in a middle eastern military setting... That's very progressive.
A part of me wished Shin got shot down because that way we would have gotten a confirmed final fate for him.
I'm not going to question how Ryoko knows that's Shin.
And just like in the OVA we barely dodged a NTR scenario.Â
I thought this version of Shin trying to desert was way better than in the OVA, as in the OVA he was saved by getting beaten up by the three African pilots and in this one there were some genuine tense and great moments. As an ending for a story, it's just unsatisfying and the OVA is way better in that department.
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u/BosuW 20d ago
Sometimes I wonder if Shin is still stuck in his chuuni phase.
He's the only pilot on the base that randomly glances at the sky as if he can see a shade of blue no one else can whenever a light breeze goes by. Definitely chuuni.
Mickey is reading a play girl magazine, not only is he gay, he's openly gay in a middle eastern military setting... That's very progressive.
He was a naval aviator in the USN, of course he's gay!
I'm not going to question how Ryoko knows that's Shin.
Makoto's photographs are just that good
(In all seriousness I mean considering her context why else would she imagine a random photographer is suddenly showing her a picture of a random fighter jet in flight?)
As an ending for a story, it's just unsatisfying and the OVA is way better in that department.
The OVA is the kind of unsatisfying where that is the point
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 20d ago
First-Timer
On todayâs episode of Area 88: You canât tell me that a giant aerial battle is about to take place and then not show it to me. Thatâs just not fair! Itâs like the episode blue balled me!
Looks like Shinâs going to be back in debt if he needs to buy a new plane and pay for the removal of the crashed plane. Thatâs just how money is. Itâs easy come, easy go.
Ah, the sound of Makotoâs shutter comes back as a plot point. That was when Shin could tell that Makoto was no longer taking pictures with an intent to kill.
Shin probably figured Makoto out pretty quickly.
Robert Capa was a real war photographer. Probably his most famous photo is The Falling Soldier taken during the Spanish Civil War. He also took photos of the Omaha Beach landings during D-Day.
It is a nice development for Makoto to go from wanting to photograph Shin dead to wanting to photograph Shin surviving.
The only thing that made Shin react during the whole conversation was the news that Kanzaki wants to marry Ryoko. Never play poker against Shin. The man is unreadable.
Shinâs planning to leave, but letâs see how well that works out for him.
Unsurprisingly, all the Area 88 pilots scramble to chase after Shin when he tries to desert. I figured it would go badly.
Wow, not only Kitri but everyone else caught up to Shin pretty quickly.
How fortunate for Shin that an enemy attack means everyone has more important things to focus on than shooting him down and he gets a chance to live.
âDonât be stupid and throw your life awayâ is pretty sound advice in this situation because I doubt Shin could escape all the Area 88 pilots combined.
Looks like Shinâs decided heâs going to keep fighting after all.
Wait, we didnât get the giant air battle that the episode was building up to!?! What kind of nonsense is this!?!
Iâm honestly surprised that Ryoko even agreed to marry Kanzaki in the first place.
Ryoko must have superpowered eyes if she can tell that blurry and far away person in the photograph is Shin.
Ryoko didnât quite leave Kanzaki at the altar like I thought she might, but I guess this is close enough. Get fucked, Kanzaki!
That wasnât really an ending to the series, at least if we assume that Shin is the protagonist of the TV series. I would personally argue, though, that Shin wasnât really the protagonist of the TV series. At the very least, Iâd argue Shin wasnât the POV character. Makoto is the POV character and so the TV series starts and ends from Makotoâs point of view. The first episode of the TV series is when Makoto first arrives at Area 88 and the last episode is when Makoto returns to Japan after leaving Area 88. Where the TV series begins and ends makes a lot more sense when I think of Makoto as the main character being followed. Thatâs why we donât start with Shinâs arrival or get to see Shin go back home. Makotoâs journey and his character development is the main focus of the series. Makoto also serves as an audience self-insert, learning about Area 88 at the same time the audience does. His journey is meant to mirror the audienceâs. Makoto learns about Shin and Shinâs determination to survive at the same time as the audience does. Makotoâs desire to see Shin overcome the odds, survive the war, and make it back home is meant to be the same way the audience is supposed to feel. And so we end the final episode with the hope that maybe one day Shin will get to make it home to Ryoko, even if we canât be there to see it for ourselves.
Overall, though, Iâd have the say I preferred the OVA finale. I think the OVA finale wrapped up the story in a more conclusive and emotionally affecting way than the TV series.
QOTD
N/A
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 20d ago
Iâm honestly surprised that Ryoko even agreed to marry Kanzaki in the first place.
I didng understand the "misunderstanding" Ryoko was talking about. It sounds like Kanzaki is telling Ryoko that unless they marry, he won't have the clout to negotiate on YAL's (and her depose father's) behalf. Which is a totally Kanzaki thing to pull. Ryoko insists that Maxwell is misunderstanding the situation, which sounds like she was already engaged to him. And that's before she got the death certificate! Very weird.
I'd also almost written that Makoto was the protag. He's the only person in the show with a character arc. That makes him the protag in my book.
Ryoko must have superpowered eyes if she can tell that blurry and far away person in the photograph is Shin.
It must be his samurai spirit.
he needs to buy a new plane and pay for the removal of the crashed plane.
There's some sort of scam going on here! You have to buy your plane for $500K+, but you can't sell it back until your contract is up! Then you get the plane as your profit for 3 years servitude.
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u/BosuW 20d ago
You canât tell me that a giant aerial battle is about to take place and then not show it to me. Thatâs just not fair! Itâs like the episode blue balled me!
Y'know what that's a good point. They should've shown it in the credits!
âDonât be stupid and throw your life awayâ is pretty sound advice in this situation because I doubt Shin could escape all the Area 88 pilots combined.
Once they caught up to him it was Joever. His ass was not successfully defending from those missiles at that range with the fuel tanks on
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u/TehAxelius https://anilist.co/user/TehAxelius 20d ago
First Time Running Away From Your Wedding
For all my lamentation about the lack of overarching plot this season, I thought this was quite a nice end to the season. A lot of plots and some character development all being tied together in an open, but satisfying ending. While I prefer Shin in the OVA, it is nice to finally see him being rattled through his actions and how it all falls out.
While I do think a good ending can net a show a number of bonus points in my book, I just don't think it will be enough for it to fully save my score of the show.
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u/chilidirigible 20d ago
Episode 12:
That would be easier if they hadn't set everything on fire a few minutes ago.
Not a complete happy ending, but less of a downer than the end of the OVA. And hey, Ryoko makes a fairly definitive choice.
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u/mr_beanoz https://myanimelist.net/profile/splitshocker 20d ago edited 20d ago
I'm surprised that an anime that features a character named Ryosuke Takahashi isn't worked on by the guy. Well, at least his voice actor is in it.
Also, how did Ryoko know that it was Shin who was on the plane from that photo? Did she know his silhouette or something?
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u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker 20d ago
That's certainly... One way to end the show. 7/10 at best?
Huh. No questions today? Either way, just 7 hours to go until Ace Combat 8, in fact it should be releasing right as the final discussion thread goes up, I wonder if this rewatch was planned that way.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 20d ago edited 20d ago
First Timer (subbed and fanedit)
This is how The Count of Monte Cristo should have ended. Sucked to be Dantes.
By itself, the episode doesn't work. But, surprisingly, it ties in with a lot of previous material! They planned this ending from the beginning.
TV Shin only deserts when he learns about the wedding. [edit: and he only returns when he learns that it will soon be off.] This fits with his character. Whether it was a good idea to make him this way is debatable.
Makoto pulls through with an honest heel-face turn. And he genuinely earned it.
I suppose I save more general comments for tomorrow.