r/anime • u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD • 21d ago
Rewatch Monogatari Series Rewatch, Week 6 - Tsukihi Phoenix, Neko Kuro Discussion - Next: Tsubasa Tiger (Neko: Shiro)
Hope you all enjoyed this week! We will take it a bit slower in the coming weeks as a small break time ;). (Sorry for the late post, Im on holiday and a bit confused by the timezones)
Ah man. I went over my previous arc rating and saw that I placed Tsubasa Family at almost the bottom of my list. What was I thinking? My opinions on this arc completely flipped. I absolutely loved it, and the ED is fantastic too!
This week we will watch 1 arc
- Tsubasa Tiger
Tsubasa Tiger is in many people's top 3 arcs. I personally rate it there as well. Hope you will enjoy it! Its the arc I was looking most forward too in rewatching.
Rewatch Schedule
| Start Watching Date (discussion 7 days later) | Series | Arc name | Episodes |
|---|---|---|---|
| September 28 | Second Season | Tsubasa Tiger | 5 |
| October 5 | Second Season | Mayoi Jiangshi | 4 |
| October 12 | Hanamonogatari | Suruga Devil | 5 |
| October 19 | Second Season | Nadeko Medusa, Shinobu Time | 8 |
| October 26 | Second Season | Hitagi End | 5 |
| November 2 | Tsukimonogatari, Koyomimonogatari | Yotsugi Doll, Koyomi … | 4+12*0.5 |
| November 9 | Owarimonogatari | Ougi Formula, Sodachi Riddle, Sodachi Lost | 7 |
| November 16 | Owarimonogatari | Shinobu Mail | 6 |
| November 23 | Owarimonogatari Second Season | >redacted<, Hitagi Rendezvous, Ougi Dark | 7 |
| November 30 | Zoku Owarimonogatari, Off&Monster Season | Koyomi Reverse, Tsukihi Undo | 7 |
| December 7 | Off&Monster Season | Nadeko Draw | 5 |
| December 14 | Off&Monster Season | Acerola Bon Appétit, Shinobu Mastered | 6.5 |
Last week's preliminary questions
- What is each Fire Sister arc trying to say in the bigger picture?
- Is the family arc what you originally expected? How does it change your picture of Hanekawa?
Discussion questions
- What do you think about the toothbrush scene?
- We have been introduced to two new characters, including another main heroine, Yotsugi Ononoki. What is your opinion of them?
- The conversation between Koyomi and Tsukihi is one chapter the LN, which takes up a third of the book. Did this conversation make you platinum mad, platinum happy or platinum bored?
- Why did Hanekawa draw in the oddity after fulfilling her wish?
- Why did the oddity slayer have an adverse effect?
- Why did Shinobu help here, but goes back to being silent in Bake?
- What has been your favorite OP so far?
Theme questions
- What does Nisemonogatari want to convey about love?
- What do you think Tsubasa Family is trying to say about Family?
- What do you think Tsubasa Family is trying to say about love?
- The three specialists we have met are all 3 with different mindsets. One specialist is missing, but what view on oddities is missing?
Preliminary discussion question for this week's arcs
- What does the tiger represent?
- We have a perspective change! How does this influence how you see each character?
Small Challenge throughout the rewatch
Add Karen Bee to the rating!
I'd like you all to try to create a ranking of your top 5 arcs of the series while watching. For rewatchers, don't let a previous watching experience influence your opinion, form this ranking throughout the rewatch! I will ask for an update a few times throughout this rewatch and I am interested to see your ranking.
Have fun!
7
u/ErikTwice 21d ago edited 21d ago
FIRST TIME WATCHER
Tsuhiki Phoenix - Nisemonogatari
My girlfriend and I finished the previous arc late at night, but she stayed when I told her the next episode had the series's most infamous scene. We watched it, she asked me if that was it and then went to sleep.
To be honest, it's a great scene. It's funny, erotic and galvanized with a dose of fear. The animation is great, the editing is on point and the juxtaposition of all the elements makes it even better. It's downright absurd, with Karen deciding to become a heroine, cartoon poses and an extreme reaction to a toothbrush of all things. Tsuhiki's cartoon self flying up as she takes impulse as if she were out of a Woody Woodpecker short killed me.
Does it have anything to do with the plot? No. Is it canon in any real sense? Not really. It didn't happen anymore than Araragi had BL-like sex with Kanbaru. But I'm fond of all these silly scenes, Shinobu asking for donuts is every bit as gratuitous but the adorably overdramatic way she asks for them just sells me on it.
On the other hand, Tsuhiki's mystery is dull, her fanservice is dull, forced and boring and the dialogue with her just drags on with no end in sight. I don't care about fakes, really, it's not that deep. I truly find Shinobu eating donuts more compelling and artistic than much of the yapping.
Ultimately, I rather liked Niseomonogatari. Ultimately, it has the two things I like about the series which are hyper-stylized scenes and fun characters, and the things I dislike about it, the slow yapping and middling mysteries, were already present in previous arcs.
The conclusion is weak but I otherwise liked it quite a bit.
Tsubasa Tiger - Nekomonogatari Kuro
This is a short, but compelling and very well-animated arc. The character acting is great, editing is on point and the story is interesting. At four episodes, it isn't drawn out beyond a few fanservicy bits with Tsuhiki that add nothing.
Hanekawa is one of the most compelling heroines and she takes center stage. We get a psychosexual analysis, since it's a huge part of her character. She suffers from a maladaptative sexuality as a response to her bad situation and, like previous times, it's very psychologically accurate.
Oshino takes a more ambivalent role here. He victims blames Hanekawa to provoke Araragi but I don't quite get what he is going for. I find the metaphorical implications Hanekawa is sleeping with Oshino interesting, particularly since Oshino is kind of an older, more mature Araragi. I particularly liked his bluntness in taking his "helps" to the logical extreme: If you want to get personally involved so much to save her, why don't you marry her?
I still think Araragi not doing it with Hanekawa is a cop out. It makes sense from a writing standpoint because it would be messy and have wide ramifications on the characters and plot but...it's still a cop out, c'mon.
The scene with Shinobu is great. Again, small moments show a lot of personality, like her accepting to spin three times but refusing to bark like a dog. I do think the human influencing the monsters is kind of bullshit and not supported by previous arcs.
As opposed to the previous arc, this does have a good ending.
3
u/IndependentMacaroon 20d ago
I truly find Shinobu eating donuts more compelling and artistic than much of the yapping
Truth
I find the metaphorical implications Hanekawa is sleeping with Oshino interesting
What now
3
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 20d ago
Hanekawa and Oshino
Im also not fully understanding this. What is it based on?
Shinobu eating donuts
There is a reason so many figures exist of Shinobu eating donuts!
2
u/ErikTwice 19d ago
Im also not fully understanding this. What is it based on?
I wrote a full reply to the poster above, let me know your thoughts!
2
u/ErikTwice 19d ago
What now
It's metaphorical rather than textual, but it's repeatedly implied as part of Hanekawa's character study.
Think about it. Araragi meets with Oshino and finds him lying down. He has "fought" over 20 times with Hanekawa and comes back covered in playful "marks". The worst mark of all is a broken cupid arrow on his back. He couldn't keep up, he's old and she's a highschooler in lingerie. Normally those are weak for a "professional" like him, but she's a carnivorous animal. There's no question, they have to "kill" her and he has to "apologize" to her parents.
In other words, Oshino, who is Araragi's adult self, had sex with Hanekawa but he came out covered in hickeys, with a broken heart and worried about the consequences. It's not their fault, they were just a "bad match".
DEATH = SEX
The key here is that death represents sex. Follow that thread and everything falls into place. For example, to kill is to penetrate, a vampire is a symbol of repression, sexual abuse and desperate need. Hanekawa isn't a traditional vampire (violent rapist) but she is a modern one who drains energy rather than blood. Araragi's immortality is his virginity and, when he loses it, he dies and grows old.
In practice, Hanekawa's arc is based around her maladaptative sexuality. Her family situation has left her traumatized and with a weak sense of self (no room of her own). She represses herself and lashes out in unhealthy ways: She becomes hypersexual, harming those around her and putting herself at risk.
So, from that perspective....
"WHAT REALLY HAPPENS"
Araragi has a crush on Hanekawa. He loves her in an innocent, childish way and struggles with his growing sexual interest on her, which is lustful and adult. This culimates when, as a way to cope with her family problems, Hanekawa takes Araragi's virginity, losing hers in the process.
This is represented on screen as the "fight" with the cat.
Araragi drops his bycicle (symbol of childhood) and tries to have a honest, adult conversation with Hanekawa. She retreats using her sexuality as a cover, claiming that Araragi was there when Hanekawa "buried" her (repressed her sexuality) and that "friends help each other". She is bitter, society expects "nothing and everything" from her. That is, they treat her as either a purely sexualy being or a pure innocent student rather than her real self, which includes both.
Hanekawa decides to end the conversation by jumping straight into sex. She bites his "arm" and makes it splurt blood upwards like an exagerated ejaculation, which falls on her body like a sin. Araragi complains it hurts, but Hanekawa claims she Araragi is also "tainted", he can no longer stand on his bike and he has to face adult realities, like having to clean his bedsheets because they got soaked with blood and fluids.
However, Hanekawa and Araragi do not date. Hanekawa is using sex as a tool to cope with her problems. She does it as a way to rebel, to stress her freedom and deal with her repressed needs. She sleeps around and refuses to open herself to Araragi, preventing the real connection necessary for a relationship to work. This doesn't work, even if she "kills" 500 people, her problems remain. Araragi tries to play the sexy, mature adult (Oshino) but it doesn't work, his love is too innocent and childish. They are incompatible and it doesn't work out.
This is on a metaphorical level, of course, not the whole text. But that's more or less it.
--
I've been thinking about writing anime reviews and analysis lately and I wonder if this kind of stuff is interesting to others. It's fun, at least, and I'm burn out on games anyways so it's tempting. What do you think?
2
u/IndependentMacaroon 19d ago
I can see it, you definitely have some analysis/interpretation talent
2
u/ErikTwice 19d ago
Ha, thank you! I applied to games for a long time, but I'm still dipping my feet into doing it for anime and manga.
2
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 18d ago
Hmm I can see where you are coming from, but I think a few of the metaphores I think might be grasping at straws.
A few things you mention though, im surprised I didnt manage to spot them. That's some greay analysis and spotted subtext
1
u/ErikTwice 18d ago
Thank you! Some details are fuzzier than others and I don't think it's meant to be "figured out" as much as give you a broad image, but I think I'm mostly right on the intention.
5
u/fansi2022 https://anilist.co/user/fansi2022 21d ago edited 21d ago
Rewatcher
Episode 8
This episode's commentary track is hosted by the Fire Sisters: Karen and Tsukihi. Tsukihi keeps complaining the whole time that, even though the title is literally "Tsukihi Phoenix," this episode has basically nothing to do with her — it's all Karen's screen time. Lol.
At 06:03, in the scene where Karen asks Araraki, in a half-threatening tone, whether she's cute, Tsukihi remarks: hardly anyone can stand up to Karen when she comes at you like that — except me. But the moment Karen turns around and asks Tsukihi the same question in the exact same tone, Tsukihi instantly answers in a tone that's less "caving in" and more "wholeheartedly submitting." (This gives us a glimpse of how the Fire Sisters normally get along — my guess is that Karen usually holds the dominant position, but every so often when Tsukihi loses her temper, Karen will back down and let her have her way.)
Tsukihi then wonders why Karen is always wearing a tracksuit. An embarrassed Karen forces Tsukihi to say a couple of nice things about how much she loves tracksuits, just to change the subject.
At 07:50, in the scene where Tsukihi kneels and bows to Araraki, Tsukihi calmly reveals: as his little sister, kneeling and bowing to him is basically an everyday occurrence. 🤨
Note: In episode 4 of Nekomonogatari (Kuro), Araragi also uses the same posture to ask Shinobu for help.
Once Part B starts, any time the topic turns to studying, Karen makes it clear just how much she hates it — like her head is packed with muscle instead of brains. She flat-out admits she gave up on basic arithmetic starting from addition and subtraction (second grade of elementary school), and that she even gets her (fists-first) brother to help her with homework.
Tsukihi sighs: you really are just living moment to moment on pure gut instinct, aren't you.
At the end, the Fire Sisters discuss how their brother's personality became a lot smoother after spring break, even though he used to bully them all the time before. Karen finally concludes that it's because he met Tsubasa-neesan, who had a good influence on him, and that's why he mellowed out.
During the next-episode preview, Tsukihi asks what the mesh screen in front of the microphone is for. Karen — clueless about schoolwork but surprisingly knowledgeable here — answers: it's a pop filter (pop guard), used to keep the mic from picking up plosive sounds.
Episode 9
This episode's commentary track is once again hosted by the Fire Sisters.
After the OP finishes, Karen shows up wearing cycling gear (a sports jersey made for biking); on the commentary track she calls this her "formal wear."
In the scene where Araraki runs into Mayoi, Tsukihi talks about once having the illusion, in the bathroom, of seeing onii-chan bathing together with a little girl. She then hints that she herself was still bathing together with her brother at age 5. As for the Fire Sisters, even now the two of them still often bathe together.
When Araraki started middle school (six years ago), he officially became independent and stopped sharing the triple-bunk bed in the same room with Tsukihi and Karen. It's right around this point that Araraki started "bullying" his sisters. (My take: back then he probably treated his sisters the same rough way he later treats Mayoi.) At the same time, they say they're really looking forward to a future chance to show the viewers the double bed in their room.
Episode 10
This episode's commentary track is hosted by Karen and Kanbaru. The funny thing is, now that Karen is finally together with her idol, she's completely on edge — coming across like a painfully deferential junior. Kanbaru's usual eccentric side ends up getting suppressed by Karen instead, and by the end, it's Kanbaru who looks like the more level-headed one. Lol.
At 07:50, in the scene where Araraki checks Tsukihi's wound, Karen explains that as a kid, Tsukihi once jumped off a roof onto the covered bed of a truck and ended up getting impaled by one of the frame bars on it.
In the scene of Araraki and Shinobu at Mister Donut, after Karen keeps deferentially rattling off details about every single donut, Kanbaru can't help but murmur: you really do know your donuts. Karen proudly replies that she loves all sweets, donuts included.
The topic shifts from sweets to ants, which also love sweets, and Karen reveals: biologically speaking, ants are actually a type of bee/wasp — both build nests, act collectively, have a queen (queen bee corresponding to queen ant), and both love sugar and other sweets. Kanbaru recalls that Hanekawa and Hitagi also talked about ants back on the episode 2 commentary track of Bake.
Karen claims Araraki once came up with a famous line: "It's not that my hand is touching your chest — it's your chest touching the palm of my hand."
Finally, Kanbaru sharply notices that Yozuru never touches the ground. Karen also states that she'd actually already suspected Tsukihi-chan was some kind of supernatural being for a while now — her hair grows too fast, and her wounds heal too quickly, there's no way she's an ordinary person. This thread gets picked back up later in Tsukimonogatari.
Episode 11
This episode's commentary track is once again hosted by Kanbaru and Karen.
Kanbaru reveals that back in elementary school, she used to read manga starting from the newest volume and work her way backward. (I'm guessing this is a habit of the voice actress herself rather than something about the character.)
Karen reveals that as a kid she often used to play around with beehives. (I'd rather believe this one is actually part of the character's setting.)
Karen explains how the Fire Sisters got to know Hanekawa: since Hanekawa was Araraki's tutor, she often came to their house and took him along to study at the library. She also helped out with resolving the Kaiki incident, and that's what suddenly brought them all close together.
After Karen mentions she's interested in otome games, Kanbaru reveals that in the previous episode, the two of them were actually just hanging out outside the house — and Kanbaru suggests that next time, they should do it in her room instead, where she can introduce Karen to some "interesting" books.
Finally, the question that's been nagging at people for two episodes now — why the last two episodes are hosted by Kanbaru and Karen — is answered by Kanbaru herself: it's mainly for the sake of balance and fairness. Since the Fire Sisters hosted the first two episodes of "Tsukihi Phoenix," and the "secret" track for the first two episodes of "Karen Bee" was recorded by Tsukihi together with her friend Nadeko, they decided the last two episodes should instead be recorded by Karen together with Kanbaru, who has a connection to her.
4
u/fansi2022 https://anilist.co/user/fansi2022 21d ago
First timer Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
Episode 1
This episode's commentary track is by Kanbaru and Mayoi.
In the opening scene of Tsukihi waking Araraki up, Kanbaru deduces from Tsukihi's hairstyle that this takes place sometime around April to May — meaning it's before Araraki forms any connection with Hitagi, Kanbaru, or Mayoi.
After the OP finishes, Kanbaru associates the title Nekomonogatari ("Cat Story") with Doraemon (lit. "Robot Cat"), and goes off on a tangent gushing about risqué scenes in Doraemon. (I suspect Kanbaru, just like Nadeko, is a huge fan of the Doraemon manga.)
Watching the scene of Araraki discussing things with Tsukihi, Kanbaru remarks on how good his relationship with his sister actually is — and yet he still insists he doesn't get along with his sisters. Without quite meaning to, Mayoi ends up stating the theme of this Nekomonogatari (Black) arc: family is something that's genuinely hard to understand.
Just like Oshino, Kanbaru isn't good with phones — she only ever signed up for a phone plan so she could talk to Araraki.
Near the end, Mayoi hints that Tsukihi seems to be steering the conversation in a strange direction. (My read is that Tsukihi doesn't want her brother getting a girlfriend, so she's trying to make Araraki mistakenly believe that what he feels for Hanekawa is lust rather than actual romantic love.)
After Karen appears, Mayoi recalls: back in episode 3 of Bake, Araraki ran out of the house specifically because he'd gotten into a fight with Karen.
Interestingly, in Part B, Kanbaru points out that the opening of episode 11 (from BD/DVD Volume 5 of Bake — Araraki's flashback) is portrayed a bit differently from how things stand right now.
In Part C, Kanbaru recalls that around this time during Golden Week, she herself was off at a training camp with her teammates, everyone completely naked.
Episode 2
This episode's commentary track is once again by Kanbaru and Mayoi.
After the OP, in the scene of Araraki feeding Shinobu, Kanbaru wonders what floor they're on; Mayoi says she's heard Oshino lives on the fourth floor.
(In the scene where Shinobu tastes a delicious donut, Araraki assumes he's just imagining the sound of her delight. Personally, I think this is actually Shinobu's thoughts being transmitted directly into Araraki's mind, rather than him hallucinating it.)
Episode 3
This episode's commentary track is, quite unusually, hosted by Kagenui Yozuru and Ononoki Yotsugi.
As for why the two of them are hosting: this episode's content is simply too heavy, so they brought in characters unrelated to it to record the commentary instead.
After Oshino shows up looking utterly battered, Yozuru reveals that Oshino is inseparably tied to how Yotsugi came into being in the first place. Yozuru then explains: it's because Oshino was too naive, insisting on resolving things peacefully instead of resorting to violence, that he ended up in this state.
Near the end of Part A, Yotsugi reveals that her part-time hourly wage for recording this commentary track is 1,250 yen.
In the scene where Araraki talks with the cat-possessed Hanekawa, Yotsugi says she thinks the theme of Nekomonogatari (Black) is the friendship and love between the supernatural and humans.
Yotsugi wonders what would happen if the two of them had actually been in town at this point in the story. Yozuru answers directly: as long as Yotsugi hadn't drawn any attention, the two situations wouldn't overlap at all — she's strictly a specialist in dealing with undead-type supernatural beings, and Black Hanekawa simply isn't in her area of expertise.
Episode 4
As Yotsugi complains that she really wants to go home, Yozuru points out that this episode is a whopping 31 minutes long! (I honestly hadn't even noticed this episode ran 31 minutes.)
From there, the topic of remaining runtime leads them to talk about the TCR (time code reader) shown on-screen while recording the commentary track — a display that shows the time remaining.
During the standoff between Araraki and Black Hanekawa, Yotsugi highlights Araraki's famous line — "Even when something unpleasant happens, as long as you're happy, that's fine" — as the takeaway conclusion of Nekomonogatari (Black).
Yotsugi argues that Yozuru's whole approach to work basically boils down to: punch -> kick -> happy ending.
In the scene where Oshino shows up to rescue Araraki, Yozuru specifically points out that what Araraki hears from Shinobu here is just his own hallucination. Lol.
There are still a lot of unresolved mysteries — like the empty cat's grave that Oshino checked earlier, which turns out to be completely normal when Araraki goes to check it again. Yotsugi wonders whether these questions will get cleared up eventually in Nekomonogatari (White). Yozuru says that by that point, it'll already be after summer vacation ends — after the two of them have come to this town.
Yotsugi is puzzled as to why Oshino is staying in this town, and based on what she remembers, she reveals an important detail about him: he's like rootless grass — he never settles down in one place. (It seems Oshino and Yotsugi actually share quite a deep connection.)
Yozuru responds: Oshino is the type who arrives somewhere, stays for a while collecting local supernatural lore, and moves on. She herself, on the other hand, is the one who's truly living a rootless, wandering existence. As for Kaiki — he's also the type who never settles anywhere permanently, and yet somehow he always manages to build himself a home base.
3
u/fansi2022 https://anilist.co/user/fansi2022 21d ago edited 21d ago
What is each Fire Sister arc trying to say in the bigger picture?
I don't have insight as deep as Malipit's, so I'll just share a few of my first impressions here.
Karen Bee, in short, is about Karen wanting to follow through on her own convictions, but getting hurt in the process — which isn't what Araraki wants to see. So the conflict between the two of them comes down to whether or not to keep playing this game of justice. The episode ends with Karen recognizing her own hypocrisy, and with Araraki, despite disapproving, still feeling proud of what his sister did.
Tsukihi Phoenix, meanwhile, is about the sisters he lives his daily life with getting hurt — while the person responsible for it has a perfectly "legitimate" reason: for example, that his actual sister has no blood relation to him at all, and that his family are really just unrelated people who took him in... Araraki's answer to that is: even if it's technically false on paper, the time we've spent together and the memories we've made are real, so I'm going to protect them.
Is the family arc what you originally expected? How does it change your picture of Hanekawa?
Without any of the commentary, this would honestly be a chilling horror story — a girl who's deliberately ignored and subjected to cold, silent abuse at home turns into a vengeful spirit and attacks her parents and innocent bystanders. It did change how I see Hanekawa — I no longer think of her as some flawless saint; she feels like a real, flesh-and-blood human being to me now.
What do you think about the toothbrush scene?
From what I heard on the commentary track, it sounds like they made that scene specifically to push the limits of what's visually and ethically acceptable in anime — absolutely wild.
We have been introduced to two new characters, including another main heroine, Yotsugi Ononoki. What is your opinion of them?
A weirdo cut from the same cloth as Oshino.
The conversation between Koyomi and Tsukihi is one chapter the LN, which takes up a third of the book. Did this conversation make you platinum mad, platinum happy or platinum bored?
Wait, you mean their conversation takes up a third of the Nekomonogatari (Black) light novel? Give me more of that, man — Tsukihi is way too cute! Platinum happy.
Why did Hanekawa draw in the oddity after fulfilling her wish?
Poor Hanekawa — her mind has been warped.
Why did the oddity slayer have an adverse effect?
My theory is that when the Oddity Slayer tried to kill Black Hanekawa, Hanekawa's own mind actively chose to cling to Black Hanekawa as an excuse to escape reality — and that's what caused the adverse reaction.
Why did Shinobu help here, but goes back to being silent in Bake?
On the commentary track they treat it as just Araraki's hallucination, but I think it's actually Shinobu's intense inner thoughts being transmitted to Araraki. In Bake, Oshino basically has the whole situation under control, so there's no real opening for her to step in — but I think the moment Araraki is actually in danger, she'd definitely step up and help.
What has been your favorite OP so far?
Renai Circulation and Platinum Disco!
2
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 18d ago
Shinobu's intense inner thoughts
Ooh! I like that interpretation more than the commentary track's!
A third of the book
Yes! I started reading the book recently (unfinished at home because of holiday) but if I remember correctly, the first chapter takes almost 90 pages! A third of the book! At one point while reading I was pretty perplexed
Litmus test of whats acceptable
If thats the case, i appreciate the scene a bit more
2
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 18d ago
I love reading these commentary tracks you post. I need to fully watch them some day too! I can totally imagine the banter between them in my head
4
u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta 18d ago
Rewatcher
More great episodes again this week!
The OST continues to knock it out of the park. Nise brings so many amazing new tracks to the table. The music in that toothbrushing scene is legendary, for example. We also had a bunch of highlights from the Bake OST return, particularly in Neko Kuro later on.
Karen's outfit for the toothbrush scene is so good. Her normal yellow-and-black jumpsuit look is pretty good, but the pink top with the skirt is unforgettable.
One aspect of Monogatari that I don't see mentioned as often as I might expect is just how hilarious it can be, and Nise is a prime example. I know people like to rag on the fanservice sometimes, but that really plays into the humor too. The toothbrush scene basically has me laughing from start to finish with all the great facial expressions (like Araragi's sadistic grin) and dialogue (like Araragi talking about Hanekawa, or everyone's reactions when Tsukihi witnesses the whole thing).
Some other humor highlights: Araragi playing rock-paper-scissors with Karen (and saying that he'll just break his promise if he loses), Araragi planning his method of approaching Hachikuji and Shinobu foiling it, the Yotsugi-Shinobu trash talk, "I wanted to try being a yandere," and the bit where Hanekawa says "I'll do anything" to keep Araragi from spilling the beans about her father hitting her.
Nice intros to Yotsugi and Kagenui this week! Yotsugi's "posed look" line is classic. (Unfortunately, they didn't use it in the English LN translations! Both this and "platinum mad," for that matter, were changed; see this for more.)
Speaking of classic catchphrases, it's funny how Kagenui calls attention to all the little things that Oshino and Kaiki do frequently. It's the sort of thing you might not even notice until you see her mimicking it. Stuff like Oshino's "I've been waiting for you," Oshino's lack of proper goodbyes, Oshino's "did something good happen to you?", and Kaiki's bit about "the lesson to be learned here."
The OPs/EDs of Monogatari are always quite good, and this is no exception. "Platinum Disco" is one of my favorites, both musically and visually. "Perfect Slumbers" is closer to the lower end of my ranking in terms of music, but visually, I really like it. "Kieru Daydream" is a good ED, too, and it marks our introduction to Marina Kawano in this series. We'll be seeing her again!
Just a couple miscellaneous notes on Black Hanekawa: her character design and voice acting is so good. Her design might be my favorite in Monogatari, it's definitely high up there. Meanwhile, Yui Horie's performance is just spectacular. It's amazing how well she distinguishes the normal Hanekawa voice from the Black Hanekawa voice, letting them bleed together just the right amount at the right moments.
Now, questions of the week:
- One could say the Karen arc is about whether you should try to do the right thing, even when you might not be strong enough to succeed. The Tsukihi arc, meanwhile, is more about the nature of family, with how Araragi comes to accept Tsukihi as his sister despite her actually being a phoenix oddity.
- The broad strokes of the Golden Week story are pretty clear from what we see in Bake, so no huge surprises there. I also remembered quite a bit of detail from the last time I watched/read, so there's that.
More questions:
- I said more above, but I basically love everything about it. The music, the art, the sheer hilarity of it. I'd change nothing about it.
- I'm not really the biggest fan of Kagenui, but Ononoki's personality makes her very fun. We get a good taste of it here, and I'm eager to see more of her in the future.
- If I recall correctly, I preferred the Neko Kuro arc in LN form. I think there might have been some cut content that I enjoyed. I'm platinum mad they didn't adapt it all!
- I think the best explanation is that Hanekawa wanted to take advantage of the opportunity to just let loose when she could absolve herself of blame by pinning it on the oddity.
- I'm forgetting why Kokorowatari didn't quite work as expected... I forget if they address that later, or in the book, or if I just missed it here.
- Perhaps Shinobu helped here because Araragi hadn't yet started "replacing" her with a harem. If you're Shinobu and you think you have a special bond with Araragi, it wouldn't make you feel like helping him if you see him show up at the cram school with other girls to help solve their problems.
- Such a tough question! I would say it's between "Ambivalent World", "Sugar Sweet Nightmare", "Marshmallow Justice", and "Platinum Disco", but that hardly narrows it down!
Even more questions:
- What does Nise say about love? Nise tells us that love is available at the convenience store for 300 yen!
- Neko Kuro seems to say that sometimes, people really are just "family" in name only. Hanekawa's so-called family doesn't even give her a room of the house to her own, and according to her, would hardly even recognize her face after more than 10 years of living together.
- Neko Kuro suggests that love is really hard to define. Like Tsukihi asserts and Koyomi later affirms, it just sort of happens spontaneously. No one event triggers it, no one feeling defines it, it just happens.
- Well, we see that Kagenui thinks the real is worth more than a fake, Oshino thinks they're equal, and Kaiki thinks a fake is worth more. I suppose one opinion could be that it doesn't matter which is worth more.
Looking forward to second season! Some of my favorite arcs should be coming up soon!
2
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 15d ago
Like Neko Kuro in LN format more
I started reading it just before my holiday, what did you like about it more than in the anime? (Tbh, I think the first chapter is already amazing!)
2
u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta 15d ago
Good question. It's been 2.5 years, so I couldn't remember the details clearly and had to go back to check some of my notes.
I think part of what I liked more in the LN here was the humor. Unfortunately, a lot of it was left unadapted (either truncated significantly or cut outright) in the anime. This was also where the LN made lots of meta-references to the anime (because the Bake anime had started by the time Neko Kuro was written), so it makes sense that those jokes, while great, would be very hard to include.
Lots of outside references, too. I counted at least three DBZ references in Neko Kuro alone that I had made note of.
The more we watch, the more inspiration I feel to go back and reread the LNs once we're done. They're so good!
4
u/Malipit 21d ago edited 21d ago
Bakemonogatarewatcher, French subs
Second time cringing over the infamous toohbrush scene
Soooo... Fun fact : Nekomonogatari Kuro was the first entry of the Bakemonogatari series I've ever watched. Not the first season, not the Kizumonogatari trilogy. But that four-episodes arc.
You see, the university where I did my studies had an independant cinema run by students of the cinematrography department. Some of them may be anime enthusiasts because when Nekomonagatari Kuro first released, they scheduled a screening of the four episodes regrouped in a film format. And I attended that screening, not knowing a thing about a series and gueninely thinking it was a standalone movie.
Not gonna lie, it was an experience. Obviously I understood little of the plot and characters with the lack of context from the other seasons. But getting caught of guard by the striking visuals and narration that was like a theater play made it a memorable moment. Memorable enough to motivate me some years later to go and watch the whole series.
This experience is probably why Tsubasa is my favorite character of the entire show. I discovered out of the blue that girl who was abused by her adoptive parents, a bandage on her cheek, and donning her school uniform on a sunday because she have no other clothes. And I took pity on her as she desperatly searched for an escape solution. Just like Koyomi did and the spirit cat too.
Why yes, the twist in this arc is that the spirit cat isn't the ''aberration'' tricking human people. Tsubasa is.
I'm not saying she's a villain of some sort haunting her adoptive parents who would be the real victims here. What they put the poor girl through because they were creeped out by her seemingly perfection is far from being an excuse.
But that perfection is what prevents her to truly find her place among humans. This is visible during Koyomi visits Tsubasa's house. All the rooms he sees have dull and somber tone to makes Tsubasa's uniform and futon stands out with vivid colors. To clearly states that's she's too much here, too bright for her parents liking.
Since her childhood, Tsubasa was raised with the idea she was an anomaly within human society. That would explain why she was so adamant to meet a vampire in Kizumonogatari. Because she may felt she would fit better within monsters.
But that actually happened, and despite gaining an ally with Koyomi, nothing changed in her family situation. Hence why she took that matter into her own hands by impersonating that spirit cat. And make her despicable enough so Koyomi would off her, thus granting the escape she sought after.
Also thats why the reason Meme Oshino was powerless against Black Hanekawa. He's specialized in dealing with spirits while keeping a balance between humans and aberrations. But he faced an human who was already at peace with her aberattion side, until Koyomi cut that bond in half.
Besides, Meme covered in ''wounds'' that consists of pencil drawings and a plugged arrow foreshadowed the fact Tsubasa was actually in control and didn't want to really harm people she knew.
To conclude on that arc, it basically explained why Koyomi didn't fell in love with Tsubasa while they shared a visible chemistry in Kizumonogatari. Just like Karen told with her own words, a real romantic relationship implies you expect to spend your life with your partner and project your life accordingly. While Tsubasa only see Koyomi as a mean to escape her horrible daily life, or at least allievate her stress. And Koyomi only saw in Tsubasa a mean to satisfy her lust.
If anything, those two forming a couple would only result in a toxic codependency relationship.
As for Tsukihi Phenix, Platinum Disco is easily in the top 3 opening songs of the series.
The cold open of the last episode explaining how the Phenix became Tsukihi Araragi was beautiful.
The true nature of Tsukihi checks out with that season narrative theme of characters being impostors. With Koyomi loving his sisters despite their flaws.
The introduction of Yozuru and Yotsugi also checks out with the conflict between Koyomi's idealism against professional adults cyniscism when it comes to how to deal with aberattions. That may be the arc where Koyomi truly becomes Meme successor as he try to maintain a balanced relationship between humans and aberrations.
Still through Yozuru and Yotsugi, we have Kaiki's shadow looming over Koyomi. As the man was literaly the reason those two came to smash poor Tsukihi upper body. While bargaining with Koyomi over a donut like nothing happened. Kaiki here may be a dark reflection of Koyomi and Meme as he tend to maintain a balance, but only for his profits.
Finally, Tsukihi first appearing in the arc by breaking into Koyomi and Karen space may be a reflection of her Phenix nature breaking into the Araragi family.
We got several nice elements here to make a good arc, right ?
I don't have the words. I know the Bakemonogatari series are infamous for the fan-service. But they crossed the line here.
This is way too suggestive, way too long, way too cringe for me to consider it as disguised porn. To the point I ashamed one of my favorite comment face originate from here.
And following it was the whole sequence with Koyomi mounting his sister with the unecessary remarks with his... you know what I mean...
AND OF COURSE WHY DON'T WE HAVE KOYOMI KISSING TSUKIHI WHILE WE'RE AT IT. WE ALREADY THIS DEEP IN THE INCEST
I won't talk about it further. Tsukihi story as a reborn aberattion was a neat idea. But it got tarnished by those scenes.
3
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 18d ago
Thats a great way to be introduced to the series, ngl. Even though it is not the perfect way to follow it. Everybody has their own way of getting into it after all. At least look at it like this, it's still probably in the top 3 starting points you could think of
Incest scenes
Do you think there is no message at all to be seen in these scenes?
2
u/Malipit 21d ago
Last week's preliminary questions
What is each Fire Sister arc trying to say in the bigger picture?
No matter the hidden facets of your relatives, they are still family I guess ?
Discussion questions
We have been introduced to two new characters, including another main heroine, Yotsugi Ononoki. What is your opinion of them?
I like them
The conversation between Koyomi and Tsukihi is one chapter the LN, which takes up a third of the book. Did this conversation make you platinum mad, platinum happy or platinum bored?
Platinum why the heck do we go for incest
Why did Shinobu help here, but goes back to being silent in Bake?
Because she wouldn't be killed by a mere cat and had to step in since it was an emergency ?
What has been your favorite OP so far?
Renai circulation
Theme questions
The three specialists we have met are all 3 with different mindsets. One specialist is missing, but what view on oddities is missing?
Oddities are good ?
5
u/WednesdaysFoole 21d ago edited 21d ago
I'm still behind and vastly overestimated my time and energy for rewatches, and for some reason I thought it was just Tsukihi Phoenix, but I'm rewatching anyway so just popping in to share my appreciation for the end of Nisemonogatari. I didn't care for Nisemonogatari and was mostly bored my first watch until the final episode and then it all clicked into place, and now it's as much a favorite as episode 12 of Bake. Over the years I've thought about that closing scene with Kagenui a lot, and its response to the question of goodness and authenticity. And how it's presented just perfects a flawed overarching story arc. Plus, I'm a huge sucker for rather sudden and odd ways for conflicts, often involving physical fights at some point, to resolve.
[HxH manga] Also it's funny how perfectly the final episode describes my feelings of the Succession Contest. Somehow more and more so each batch too?!
[Question] Is the family arc what you originally expected? How does it change your picture of Hanekawa?
[Answer] I can't remember this arc that clearly (and I'm still not caught up) but it was Nekomonogatari Shiro that Hanekawa came to be so beloved the first time around. I didn't care for her too much before, but since then she became a favorite and every part of her on rewatches break my heart.
toothbrush
I don't feel strongly about it either way, but I don't love it.
two new characters
"I love them." - I said with a posed look.
What has been your favorite OP so far?
Hanekawa's OPs make me sad, so maybe hers?
Small Challenge throughout the rewatch
Top 2 so far: Hitagi Crab & Tsukihi Phoenix
4
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 20d ago
Luckily we take it a bit slower upcoming weeks! Enough time to catch up.
What particularly did you like about e11 of Nise that its on par with bake e12?
1
u/WednesdaysFoole 15d ago
Hmm, with Nise, expanding on what I've stated above - I tend to really like moments when everything clicks for me, and since I didn't like this part until it clicked and brought everything (the fakes) together (and retroactively had me like Nisemonogatari as a whole), the episode stands out. I liked the atmosphere in which this episode started, beginning with the story of the phoenix. The soundtrack too? The music used in the intro, the one after the OP when he's talking with Karen, later with the confrontation and at the resolution - all of it just worked. Araragi getting mad finding out Kaiki sent them there is hilarious, and I'm often moved by themes of family or love and care where someone may not be who you thought/blood relative, but that (blood/false "identity") isn't what matters the most. And yeah, anticlimactic resolutions, if done well (as in works for me), I tend to favor sometimes even more than grand resolutions.
Yes it'll be a good week to catch up!
3
u/Nuuma-Vega 21d ago
Rewatcher
Tsukihi Pheonix / Nise part 2
Well off to a strong start with the toothbrush scene, I mean... at some point I feel like it wraps around from sexual to weird to maybe funny. Well, less the act actually being shown but more so from the absurdity of the situation viewed from the side and how the characters react to it, like Tsukihi grabbing the awl, or Araragi's and Karen's reaction to her, also the little callback later. Though it's not as bad as I remember, I feel like the random shots of Karen's feet and view up her skirt flashbanged me way more, as I had erased those from my memory since they really don't serve any purpose at all. And then do I think the toothbrush scene does have purpose? Eh feels like Nisioisin might've indulged himself a little too much in whatever crack he was smoking that day. Well, I can maybe see how this part might allude to some themes of Karen's femininity and how Araragi comes to see her not only as his kid sister, but as a woman, but... the themes/meanings are only as good as their execution and you can try and convey whatever deep idea you want, If the presentation is an episode of a brother mouthfucking his sister with a toothbrush, I’m probably not gonna be taking it too seriously.
Next up Tsukihi herself. Out of the two sister I prefer her over Karen. Her character has an interesting duality of someone who acts very much herself, wears her emotions on her sleeve and lets them run loose to the point of hysteria, yet is a fake. How she’s an impostor who mimics her surroundings, this could probably be tied back to things like her hair, how she constantly changes it, how this might be influenced by fashion and other external stimuli she comes across, yet the act is still very her, she decided to change it, what she wanted and so she did. Tsukihi’s also way more aware on the justice part, she realizes the fake nature of it all, how she believes in Karen’s view of justice so she decides to follow it, which also might be in part with her nature to mimic, as she does say that she fights for justice because of the influence of others. Then there’s the whole dilemma of whether an indistinguishable fake is of lesser/equal/greater value than the genuine article, and how based off Kaiki, if you deliberately reach the state perfectly mimicking what’s real by your own merits, you would be superior. And in general, there are all sorts of different families, you could even liken Tsukihi’s oddity to adoption, so to say that she should be removed, due to no being a real child is a bit short sighted as it should be up to the family. Though I do have to wonder, since the phoenix mimicking a human goes so far as to not recognize herself as an oddity, how deliberate is the attempt to be real? If it starts its deception from the state of the fetus, then does it really need to do anything else? If it imitates the biology, then wouldn’t Tsukihi literally grow up as the family’s daughter with no additional deception/effort. If she started from the very same starting point as a human, then that would almost make her one, well apart from the immortality, as from what I understand the oddity as a phoenix itself seems to only manifest after the natural life span of the human so it can reincarnate itself, so she isn’t really aware what happens to her after death, like you know, every other person. The only real issue I could see with her existence, is that meeting and oddity makes you more susceptible to them, but even then, I think that happens if you’re aware of them? I’m not sure if there is some passive draw that Tsukihi would emit towards other oddities even if no one realized she was one.
One thing that wasn't mentioned is Senjougahara’s rebirth, how over the month after the Bee incident, spurred by her confrontation with Kaiki. It worked like a detox for her, as she expunged all the poison that had built up inside her. Araragi says how she became sweet and affectionate, the dere in tsundere and started treating him better, became an ordinary girl.
Then the Kaiki/Araragi conversation was also shorter, which I feel is a shame as its pretty funny, though for more memorable events, is that Araragi was keeping a photo of Senjougahara in his wallet and so he asked Kaiki to return it, and in turn Kaiki said how disappointed he felt, as she now looked just like a regular person, that a cheerful Hitagi Senjougahra is worthless: “To be cursed not to know your own worth, or to be cursed not to know your own worthlessness. Which to choose, if we must, is a question we bear all-life long – but children ought to grow and mature”. He also says how coincidences are a product of someone's malice, hinting at the meeting with Kagenui and in general I feel like this can be applied to later events in the series.
We're also introduced to Kagenui and Ononoki. The two in my opinion could be foils to the fire sisters, to show what theoretically they could look like following their path, a brash defender of justice who prefers to punch first ask questions later, unwavering in her view, like Karen and then an oddity counterpart, who more comes along due to the beliefs they hold for their partner, like what Tsukihi does. I like Kagenui, out of the specialist we’ve seen someone who goes in brute force is pretty metal, like how she says the reason she picked immortal oddities to specialize in is that you can never go too far with them. She also embodies the point that Araragi and Karen were discussing before, how if you want to be right you have to be strong, and it does tie into Araragi mentioning how the biggest opponent to your justice is another’s justice, how battles are fought due to different clashing views on it, and so Kagenui can force her ideals by virtue of strength alone, make her form of justice prevail. But I think this does make her hypocritical in the confrontation, she literally has an oddity with false age that she considers her own sister and partner while stating that Tsukihi needs to be exterminated for being fake, not to mention she tells Araragi to not force his ideals on other, while literally doing the same (well to give the benefit of the doubt, I could also see how she would do this out of concern as oddities are something you shouldn’t meddle with, but it should really be a case by case basis and not so clear cut as she thinks). So just because she doesn’t agree with Tsukihi’s existence she would force the Araragi family to see it as a problem, while completely oblivious to their situation and feelings, also to not forget about the conversation with Hachikuji that revealing oddities to your family would drag them into danger, so even if lies aren’t exactly something a follower of justice would preach, it’s something necessary and there are some things better left in the unknown, not to mention if it’s really worth keeping to your sense of what’s right, but breaking a family in the end, as Kagenui seems to proclaim how devastated the parents would be if they knew Tsukihi was a fake, but wouldn’t they be just as heartbroken, if you know, she got killed? As for the fight, this one was really horrible for Araragi, in the novel he is described to resemble a strawberry McShake after getting pounded into the ground. Though they did tone down Ononoki getting her ass beat by Shinobu, as it’s stated that her clothes and hair, every bit of her was bloody and beaten. Kagenui also glazes Oshino a bit, saying how he was the cleverest, but the least serious, how in college he was always messing around with different girls, but she does say he was the biggest genius the occult club had seen, and that even Kaiki would stay away from him. It’s also interesting in how Araragi is fully committed to being the bad guy to save his sister, which bears similarity to how another certain specialist goes on about his work, even if Araragi would like to discredit any connection they might have. And this makes Kagenui think over the lesson from Kaiki and the theory of fundamental evil, how Araragi in not taking the path of moral high-ground in her view of justice, in the end manages to deliberately do good, how in the first place, justice was a man-made construct, meant to guide/deceive humans into following the right path, and so realizing that labeling Tsukihi as a fake is hypocritical, as human justice is something people strive towards and is not innate, she makes an exception to this case.
3
u/Nuuma-Vega 21d ago
Nekomonogatari – Kuro / Tsubasa family
So it begins while Araragi is contemplating his feelings for Hanekawa and after his talk with Tsukihi deduces it’s actually lust. This was cut but he was actually broke, so he borrowed money from Tsukihi to buy his dirty mags, not before she offered some of her BL as an alternative.
Another thing that confused me on a first watch was why would Araragi flip Hanekawa’s skirt, and she would thank him for it. So, in the novel, his thought process is stated as him feeling bad for not being able to reply to Hanekawa normally after seeing her face, and reminding her of the current situation, then how she was trying to get out of this predicament and trying to come up with ways to not worry Araragi, so not wanting to be in this painful situation he out of personal desire decided to do something to just get out of this awkward state.
We also get two instances of the healing blood in this arc, well I guess now it’s stated that any vampiric fluid has healing properties. Guess I had forgotten when I was writing in the Kizu discussion how this never comes up, guess I was just more so venting that it felt more like an ass pull there, as here it’s presented as a nice gesture from Araragi and then him getting saved by Shinobu, well It was obvious she wouldn’t let him die and she didn’t even necessarily need the blood’s healing properties, she could’ve instead just sucked his blood so I guess the instances here felt like they fit.
Regarding her family situation, I don’t think this was mentioned, but she says she could probably figure out who her father by blood is with her smarts, but says how there’s no point in looking into it. Then she also revealed that her mother actually hung herself over her crib… well whether she could understand it then or not, would still probably leave some impact, not to mention she knows this fact in the first place, I wouldn’t doubt if her current parents told her about it, just how they told her about not being related, at a very young age no less. There’s also interesting nods towards her current family that are more explicit in the novel, on how in some instances they are framed a bit like victims. The first instance is when Araragi looks at their drained bodies, he doesn’t feel like gloating or like they deserved it, he just felt sorry for them. Then again after rushing from seeing the state of Hanekawa’s household and calming down, Araragi thinks how there’s no reason for him to sympathize, yet he has a feeling that living 15 years in that household wasn’t a happy time for the parents either. Not that I’m defending the parents as it’s really fucked up for a child during puberty to not even have a space they can retreat into, somewhere they could calm down, get their thought in order and feel safe, as such a place is usually home, so even if I think Hanekawa’s is one of the worst cases of relying on oddities, I can understand it at least. Not to mention they didn’t like the flak they would get from putting her for adoption, but wouldn’t these living conditions come to bite them in the ass if they came to light? Like isn’t this something the child protective services would take issue if they knew, if the parents were so concerned with their image, then maybe even if they’re not interacting at least make it seem normal?
As for Hanekawa herself, we see that her wanting to be “normal” and its image is very distorted, she based it entirely on being “ethical/right”. This in a way comes back from the whole thing of her needing to realize her own strengths, like Oshino says here that those with power should be aware of how it affects their surroundings. As I can understand how a person like her point out every little thing would be grating, even though it’s stated that she doesn’t pity others, she sees them as equals and is not putting them down by sticking to her ethics, but simply pointing them out, but since she hides behind her “white” façade, from the side it might be hard to understand this and she might come off as stuck up. There is an interesting bit cut where on Hanekawas house hangs her nameplate which she made when she was a kid, but it was never updated as she grew, it’s said how at some point there probably was some attempt to maybe form a connection, but I think here is where her strengths come into the picture and might be a reason for further alienation. She is exceptional in her knowledge and smarts, and she bases her entire persona on what is right, so how could the parents ever hope to interact with her if she picks up every wrong thing they do, leading to perhaps inferiority and anger, how could they try to teach or mentor her, if she already knows most things, which in turn might lead them to not bother with her at all. Though the parents don’t seem that great so perhaps they didn’t try so hard, not to mention this would’ve started when she was even younger, so you can’t really expect a child to understand what she’s doing wrong, or that there’s more to life than just being right, which lead to her never correcting this behavior. So instead, now she goes on with her life lying to herself and others, putting on this persona and when she can’t take it, instead of confronting herself, she pushes it onto oddities.
As for the oddity I think the afflicting cat was like a catalyst for Hanekawa, how she was herself all the time, or more so that she was hiding behind the cat to relieve her stress, to unshackle herself from the “perfect and normal” façade she was putting up. We know that her consciousness returned after her parents were dealt with to some extent, so I imagine she was lucid and knew what the cat was doing but looking the other way, well it might also be that at that point she had already taken the wheel, instead of simply pushing her will onto the cat, but whatever the case, the cat ended up being a convenient excuse. And while Araragi might want to call it a split personality, to me it feels more like how a person wears a mask with others, and this is simply herself, it’s just that its very different from what she usually presents to others, so its more a side she represses or doesn't want to acknowledge.
We also get Oshino with some harsher words thrown at Hanekawa, and since his stance is that of a balancer, he tries to look for the middle ground, even going to interview her parents and all. Though he is a softy inside so I can imagine he might be doing this to rile up Araragi and trying to put the issues Hanekawa needs to deal with in the forefront, since he knows how exceptional she is, and is looking out for her future, knowing how she can cause trouble, he even calls her the living embodiment of the butterfly effect. I’d also wouldn’t be inclined to believe that if he went all out he would’ve lost, like it’s said in the 2nd warning he omits to Araragi, that just beating the Cat wouldn’t solve her problem, so perhaps in roundabout ways he was trying to set traps for her to capture her, or realized she was in control and tried to get through to her, but she was too smart, and she probably was someone you couldn’t beat unless you were going all out.
And lastly for Araragi’s feeling towards Hanekawa, I personally don’t buy that it can so easily be attributed to just lust, well you could say it’s not regular love in how he says that his feelings for Hanekawa transcended that, so it might be some form of extreme admiration, like he sees her as his savior, a larger-than-life figure he owes his life to and a very dear friend. But on the other hand, in the end he says to Oshino, how he didn’t love her, yet also adds - how it’s better to leave it at that, I feel like you could also interpret it as him realizing he did love her, but seeing in how she is lying to herself, not accepting who she is, equally as suicidal as him and that if they got together it wouldn’t end well for them, though he probably would think less of how she would be bad for him, but that with the way she currently is he would drag her down, how she doesn’t ask for his help, and even if she did, she would have to face her problems on her own first, just like this time, where he couldn’t really save her, he just pushed the problem away for now. Or he could also be feeling that he isn’t enough for her, that he fell in love with her perfect image and got disillusioned for a bit, how he didn’t try to get to know her, so now he doesn’t deserve to love her.
2
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 20d ago
Im not sure if I agree with most of your interpretation of Araragi loving Hanekawa. I do agree with the last part however, that he fell in love with a perfect version in his head instead of who she really is.
I think this also ties in maybe a bit with Hanekawa sticking around with the cat, putting up a fake mask of who she truly is. Her wearing only underwear is of course what araragi likes, and the "cat" doing it, well thats again a convenient excuse.
3
u/Nuuma-Vega 20d ago
Well yeah him only being able to view her as perfect is the main thing, but I feel like he has a lot of complex emotions towards her mixing inside him at this point, form gratitude, extreme admiration, the lust he feels, sadness/being conflicted with her family situation, I think there's probably some hint of romantic love too, but in the end he sorts them out and puts off love, feeling like he isn't worthy of her, like when speaking to Oshino, we see he doesn't think she could love him back, saying how she has her own feelings and later in the series ends up admiring her as a friend.
2
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 20d ago
You mention that the Phoenix not being aware it is fake, makes the intent to be real less valuable.
Dont you think that the state of forgetting that you are indeed a fake, is the ultimate last step in being the realest fake possible?
3
u/Nuuma-Vega 20d ago
I didn't mean that it not being aware would make it less valuable, just more so that at that point it starts to function exactly like the real thing. Like if it starts from the same point and arrives where the real thing is unknowingly, then I'm not sure it's really a fake. I'm talking about the sister part of Tsukihi here, as I think Kagenui saying she isn't Araragi's real sister would be wrong, since she literally grew up as part of the family, from the time of a baby with no awareness that she is somehow different, so with no deliberate attempt to deceive and just being herself, I think the only thing fake about her is the human part with her regeneration and all. So all I'm getting at is that I think Tsukihi is a real sister, but a fake human.
4
u/IndependentMacaroon 20d ago
Rewatcher
These two arc were the most tedious weekly viewing so far in this rewatch for me and unsurprisingly I don't feel like writing too much about them either.
Phoenix is once again at best half about its titular character, and she gets a perfectly decent and even sort of touching story and resolution, but besides the introduction of Kagenui and Ononoki with their respective combinations of silliness and ruthless power the rest is the worst material in the series so far (and probably in the series overall), just a bunch of overlong and not even particularly clever perv/fetish pandering - I'll give the toothbrush thing points for absurdity at least but the episode is way too long for just that payoff. Oh and, turning characters into walking goon fuel or plain gross perverts like half the time (hello Koyomi) and still trying to have viewers take them seriously and be invested in them the rest of the time is not the smartest writing move; genuinely with Nisioisin's volume of writing he must just no-filter jot down whatever crap is on his mind sometimes, which of course still takes talent of sorts to do coherently . 4/10 on this one.
With Family, besides the introductory perv garbage episode which feels particularly tasteless given the genuine issue at play with one of its objects, it's not terrible, but it just feels superfluous; not adding much to what we'd heard of already, repeating plot and thematic elements from Vamp/Kizu, and also too long particularly in the bonus-length final episode, man does a lot of the dialogue drag. Strangely, the production is noticeably weaker again too, direction/backgrounds more aimless or plain and static, and Hanekawa looks like a Madoka Magica character (also by Shaft) - but in any case more of her is always appreciated and Donuts Shinobu is cute. Torn between 5-6/10
Why did Hanekawa draw in the oddity after fulfilling her wish?
Wanting to act out to a degree just like some of what she does in Vamp/Kizu
Why did Shinobu help here, but goes back to being silent in Bake?
The novel was written later. But really idk and can't be bothered to think about it
What does Nisemonogatari want to convey about love?
Sisters are the best target
The three specialists we have met are all 3 with different mindsets. One specialist is missing, but what view on oddities is missing?
Kagenui - exterminate, Oshino - balance, Kaiki - ignore (?), I don't remember the fourth's deal and the possibilities are too broad to set up a question like that.
1
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 18d ago
repeating plot points
Do you think this is because you already know the mystery of what happened during golden week? The mystery is now gone on rewatch, making it less enticing.
1
u/IndependentMacaroon 18d ago
No, I mean thematic repetition from Kizumonogatari like Koyomi throwing everything away for Kiss-Shot => doing the same for Hanekawa, it's not more interesting the second time. Already knowing how things ultimately play out makes the bad pacing stand out even more, but that's a different problem
3
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 21d ago edited 21d ago
This stretch of episodes contains the infamous toothbrush episode, the single worst episode of the franchise. If there's any moment in this franchise to go "Nope, I'm out" it's this one. As bad as it was when I initially watched it, I felt it was even worse when I rewatched it as it was more than just one terrible scene it was essentially an entire episode of inuendo.
This is also the point where the original author is really going crazy with the haircuts; it's not enough for just Hanekawa, but Senjyogahara as well. And Karen too. And Tsukihi's hair situation is always very strange, going really short at times but also having years' worth of growth with no explanation as well. Although I will admit the [Minor spoilers]Striped Hanekawa look that we get later is a really cool look. But it still works with long hair.
On the positive side though, always happy with any Tsukihi focus, and I get quite a laugh out of Ononoki saying "with a posed look" whenever she talks [minor spoilers]especially because in a later episode she says to Araragi something to the effect of "Don't bring that up! I was so cringe back then!"
I've missed this the last few posts, but now's a good opportunity to cover more of Monogatari's amazing vocal cast!
Karen Araragi is played by Eri Kitamura. Beyond this role I know her best for playing Sayaki Miki in Madoka Magica and Yase in Kyousougiga. She's also Mitty in Made in Abyss, Salia in Cross Ange, Yoshi Kurahashi in Shiki, Mairu Orihara in Durarara!, various Honoka characters in Knights of Sidonia, and the Typhoon Devil in Chainsaw Man.
Speaking of Durarara! in what is likely an intentional reference you've got a Hiroshi Kamiya voiced character, Izaya Orihara who has two younger sisters, one of whom is voiced by Kitamura. Alas, they failed to cast the below actress to play the other sister!
Tsukihi Araragi is played by Yuka Iguchi. Other major roles I've heard her in includes Miyake Hinata in A Place Further Than the Universe, Miku Kohinata in the Symphogear franchise and Crusch Karstein in Re: Zero. Other roles of hers include Mine Kuramae in Fruits Basket, Nanami Tsubomi in Kakegurui, Shizune Seo in Kara no Kyokai, Mero Furuya in Sankarea, Mako Nakarai in Bokurano, Makoto Gappa in Train to the End of the World and several of the cat characters in March Comes in Like a Lion.
Yotsugi Ononoki is played by my personal favorite voice actress, Saori Hayami. Other major roles of hers include Yor Forger in Spy X Family, Shoko Nishimiya in A Silent Voice, Yukino Yukinoshita in Oregairu, Yuzuki Shiraishi in A Place Further than the Universe, Saki Morimi in Eden of the East, Wako Agemaki in Star Driver, Anju Emma in Eighty Six, Yumeko Jabami in Kakegurui, Kokoro in Darling in the Franxx, Aila Jyrklanem in Gundam Build Fighters, Haruka Ogasawara in Sound! Euphonium, Chiriko Tsurumi in Anohana, Ruby Rose in RWBY Ice Queendom, Ushiwakamaru in Fate Grand Order and Yun-Hua Lu in Astra Lost in Space. List goes on and on for her...
Lastly, Yozuru Kagenui is played by Ryoko Shiraishi. Other roles of her include Devola & Popola in the Nier franchise (both video game and anime adaption), Anew Returner in Mobile Suit Gundam 00, Quin in Death Parade, (young) Gugu in To Your Eternity, Yuriko Akatsuki in Towa no Quon, Satoko Tsujinaka in The Summer Hikaru Died and Mary Godwin in Xenosaga. Similar to Iguchi, she plays cat characters in March Comes in Like a Lion. She also plays four different roles in Kyousougiga, Un, (young) Kurama, Ko and the host of the live action episode.
3
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 20d ago
Hmm, on rewatch I thought the toothbrush scene was better than on my initial viewing. Idk, there is not much substance there but at least I thought there was more this time.
Hanekawa's look is the best in the series. I didnt really notice that hair plays this much of a theme, but youre right, its quite obvious really.
Quite wild that Inori Minase is the only Sorayori main character that doesnt also play a role in Monogatari. That anime was stacked for voice actor talent. Well, the anime was a masterpiece anyways (its my fav..)
3
u/sfisher923 https://myanimelist.net/profile/sfisher923 20d ago
Partial Rewatcher in Unknown Regions
- All I have to say is I'm glad Nisemonogatari is over and out of the way since there has been some fairly awkward planning
- As for Kuronogatari (A little nickname I came up for Nekomonogatari:Kuro for this post) it almost felt like a nice victory lap after getting past the most infamous scene I can name
- I guess for Second Season onwards (Well I suppose Kuronogatari onwards) I'm just winging it because we're just past even the latest thing I knew of (The Toothbrush scene)
2
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 20d ago
Youre in for a good time! The first season is arguably the "worst" season of the 3. And that's saying something.
6
u/SpiritualPossible 21d ago
Rewatcher
The Toothbrush Episode
My note for this episode back then was:
I am taking back all the positive things I said about the previous arc
And here it is. Arguably the most (in)famous moment in the entire series. The one that filters many viewers. The episode that even people who aren’t fans of the show know about.
Yeah, not a fan of it.
And my problem isn't even with the toothbrush scene - as cringy as it may be, it can be seen as an absurd scene designed to shock, in which an innocent situation turns into an extremely awkward sexual scene (even if it feels like an ultimate result of all previous outrageous fanservice). No, my problem is that this episode genuinely waste your time.
Seriously, as far as I can remember, this is practically the only episode in the entire series that you can skip ENTIRELY. It doesn't advance the plot, there aren't any really witty dialogues - practically the only thing it has going for it is fan service centered on incest bait, as every interaction with Karen ends up revolting around it. If you start watching this arc from episode 2, you won't miss ANYTHING - except for extremely awkward feeling.
And I’ve read some of the explanations fans have written about this episode. For example, that it’s about “Karen’s attempts to mend her relationship with Araragi after their fight” or that in it “Araragi finally realizes that his sister is no longer a little girl, but a woman,” but all these arguments are not only completely unfounded, but they also lose all meaning once you realize that KAREN. SIMPLY. DOESN’T. MATTER.
She is, perhaps, the most underutilized character in the entire franchise. After Nisemonogatari, she contributes practically nothing to the story. So even if we assume they were trying to do something like that in this episode, that development in their relationship still leads nowhere. This means that not only was the time spent on this episode wasted, but the character of Karen herself was a wasted as well, since her most important moment in the entire series ultimately boils down to jokes about incest.
Continue in the reply
4
u/SpiritualPossible 21d ago
Tsukihi Phoenix
And as much as I’d like to say that after that episode, the rest of the arc was good… well, unfortunately, I don’t think that’s entirely true, and I actually find it rather weak. That’s because, in my opinion, the issues I had with the first episode ultimately affected most of the other episodes to one degree or another.
Again, I don’t think most of these episodes featured such smart dialogue - at least not compared to what came before. So in these episodes, just like in the snail arc, everyone just kind of mills around for like three episodes, and then it's time to conclusion.. And when it comes to fan service, I’m faced with a strange paradox: even though there are probably far fewer fan service scenes here than in the previous arc, Araragi’s behavior in these episodes is actually much more annoying.
Like, sorry, but I just don't find it funny when he starts going like this:
UOHHHHHHH, IT'S TIME TO CALL HANEKAVA! A CHANCE TO TALK TO HANEKAVA!!!
NO-O-O, DAMN IT, SHINOBU, WHY DID YOU STOP ME FROM MOLESTING MAYOI?!?! YOU RUINED EVERYTHING!!!
And so on. I don’t find this funny; it’s just frustrating. Usually, this show has SOMETHING ELSE that makes even jokes like this work (a good example is the scene from the next arc where Araragi starts rambling about how Hanekawa promised to do anything for him), but here, it really does boil down to just that.
But, despite that, i still can't really call it a BAD arc, and it's mostly because we do have a rather strong final episode.
The dilemma surrounding Tsuchihi’s true nature is REALLY interesting and ties in very well with the overarching theme of fakes and imposters, which runs like a common thread throughout the entire season. What’s even more interesting is that both Araragi and Kagenui are right in their own ways. Of course, Araragi's reasoning is that, no matter what, Tsuhihi is still a member of his family, and that's understandable (though kissing his sister isn't exactly necessary to prove it...). But at the same time, when Kagenui said that Araragi is acting rather selfishly and isn’t considering the feelings of the other members of his family… well, isn’t there some truth to that?
This, in essence, is the case with Araragi in all the story arcs we’ve seen. No matter how much we can to describe him as “kind” or “caring,” a certain selfishness runs through his actions, causing him to sometimes ignore others’ perspectives. The most striking example is, of course, the finale of the “Kizumonogatari” arc, where it was precisely because of his selfishness that everything ended, as he himself described it: “with not a single person left happy.” Or take the “Suruga Monkey” arc: he was the one who initially opposed the idea of cutting off Surugi’s hand because HE himself couldn’t come to terms with it, but then proceeded to carry out a plan that no longer took into account the feelings of OTHERS on the matter (first and foremost, Hitagi’s). He acts out of good intentions, and in most cases it has actually worked out, but this selfishness which borders on self-destruction - is a rather serious flaw in Araragi, one that, as Kagenui points out, could lead to disastrous consequences.
But, of course, the truly interesting idea here comes from none other than Kaiki - my guy keeps winning without even appearing on screen. His reflections on what’s more valuable - the original or an indistinguishable fake - are very compelling, and his own perspective is quite intriguing. In a sense, this characterizes Kaiki himself: although we don’t really know when he’s lying and when he’s telling the truth, the fact remains that Kaiki calls himself a fake ghost buster, a con artist, and an impostor. But despite this, he turns out to be just as knowledgeable and capable when it comes to paranormal phenomena as his peers. This raises the question: if he’s just as good as they are, can he still be considered an impostor at all? What exactly makes an “original” authentic, and does it even matter if a “fake” is just as good - or perhaps even better - than the original? Everyone will have their own answer to this question, but as far as Tsuhiki's situation goes, there’s really nothing that would actually make her NOT Araragi’s sister.
So yeah, i do think that the final episode is actually something that saves the whole arc for me.
Tsubasa Family
I’ll keep this brief, since the events in this story mostly repeat what we already know from previous arcs. This once again raises the question of the best order to watch the series, as some believe that this arc and the next one work best when watched in chronological order. But that doesn’t change the fact that, in my opinion, this is really good arc.
It does a great job of exploring Hanekawa’s family issues, which even leads to a recontextualization of her character and some of her previous interactions, allows us to delve deeper into Araragi’s feelings toward her, and successfully ties everything back to the first episode. Furthermore, it’s one of the best story arcs so far in terms of overall atmosphere.
But we'll most likely talk about this in more detail next week, since the next arc is a continuation of this one.
3
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 21d ago
Interesting take on the first 3 episodes of Phoenix and I think I partly agree. I dont think these episodes in a vacuum are bad, as they are obviously setting up something. Except, as you rightly mention, they dont do anything really in the story with it. I agree that she is underutilized for sure. We will see Karen Ogre animated soon, looking forward to it but its another short arc..
Something Monogatari seems to do so well is conclusions of arcs. I looked it up a while ago, and excluding one arc the last episode of an arc is always the highest rated episode in its batch. Can you guess which one?
The conversations are not truly wasted I feel. The philloshical questions this arc puts forward on the value of something being fake still make me think. Thats probably what makes Kaiki such an awesome character, maybe even the best girl in the series!
3
u/IndependentMacaroon 20d ago
excluding one arc the last episode of an arc is always the highest rated episode in its batch. Can you guess which one?
Well the only fitting one in my view so far is Bee
2
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 18d ago
Tsubasa cat 2 is the answer, which seemed quite obvious to me
2
u/SpiritualPossible 21d ago edited 21d ago
The conversations are not truly wasted I feel. The philloshical questions this arc puts forward on the value of something being fake still make me think.
Oh yeah, I agree with that. As I mentioned above, I like the final episode precisely because the themes and philosophical questions touched upon in this arc are REALLY interesting and were brought to the forefront at the end. It’s just that the three previous episodes… kinda lacking by the standards of Monogatari. It’s not that there wasn’t anything interesting at all (I, for example, like Tsuhiki’s dialogue about her understanding of justice), but most of Araragi’s banters with other characters just weren’t very satisfying.
That’s probably why I prefer “Karen Bee” - even though it’s technically a separate arc, it feels like it better sets the stage for and reflects the themes raised in the final episode of “Tsuhiki Phoenix.”
3
u/lowleveldata 21d ago
I think those fan service scenes are by design fillers to make the series less serious / heavy for the average audience. And Karen is too OP to be utilized (in the same way as kagenui).
2
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 21d ago
It's the worst episode of the entire franchise and you make a good point that I haven't thought of, that even with the "defense" that fans like to bring up for the toothbrush debacle, there is no actual long term impact on the story. As far as I'm concerned the entire episode could have been tossed out.
1
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 21d ago
1
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 21d ago
1
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 21d ago
1
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 21d ago
1
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 21d ago
1
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 21d ago
1
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 21d ago
1
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 21d ago
1
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 21d ago
1
u/Baaasbas https://myanimelist.net/profile/BasvanD 21d ago
→ More replies (0)
4
u/Solid-Comment1803 21d ago
**Rewatcher - MBTT Subs - Hyper-Fixator - 5th Time in 18 Months**
Two arcs I have a lot to say about this week, though we'll see if I can verbalise it; and two of my three favourites in first season, alongside Tsubasa Cat, but they're all very different and it only makes sense to me to tackle both Tsukihi Phoenix and Tsubasa Family as individual posts, and then potentially try to tie it together at the end, so without further ado:
Tsukihi Phoenix:
Platinum Disco I'll get to now, I love how anachronistic Tsukihi is, and Platinum Disco captures it beautifully, but I lack the vocabulary to describe music, so I'll touch on loving the multiple hairstyles though I'm always partial to the bobcut.
The Toothbrush scene exists, it's absurd, loops back to being absurd, and continues Nise's love-affair with how it chooses to depict sexualisation, where Nise's handled it seriously in the case of Senjougahara, been able to make Nadeko seem deeply distrubed, and elsewise used it for comedy, all in an 8 episode span, and I'll say 8 episode because it feels more like a Karen Bee holdover than about what Tsukihi Phoenix is at times.
We learn a fair bit about Karen this arc, debatably more than her own arc; what Koyomi did that motivated her justice/made her want to die, insecurities with her femininity/wearing skirts, that she's something of a Kanbaru fangirl, all while the toothbrush scene is building up.. She's a character I do think is underutilised/struggles to carve out a personal niche for herself within the cast; she's such a normal person by most metrics; neither being the premier tomboy on account of Kanbaru, nor the premier sister with Tsukihi having more going for her, between what's revealed in this arc and being the one Nadeko's childhood friends with. So I find she generally serves as an everyday foil, the very average, if trying hard to be a 'good' person in the storm of insanity that doesn't have a clue what sort of vortex she's actually living in, oblivious even to absurdity in her own home. Hell she gets to contrast the theme of cutting your hair depict growth by flouting any meaning towards hers at all, it was just momentarily in the way. The premier Karen moment comes at the end of the arc with her seeing Koyomi off and saying of course she'd die for Tsukihi.
Yotsugi's such an expressive stoic is what I'll say about her, most of that expression is in snark but I'd be remiss to ignore that how she is with Shinobu makes me laugh a good deal, but she's not too prominent in this arc, getting off-screened in the end, and her greatest contribution is Hachikuji getting to re-riff on Karen's comments on Kagenui. But Kagenui herself, the dialect puts some people off, but I think my issue with her is she's not the big presence Oshino or Kaiki is, she's a far more fierce fighter but as a person her intensity doesn't quite match, since she has Ononoki with her, going further the two most interesting things she does in this arc for me, are parrot something Kaiki once told her, and leaving a way Oshino would never, which while I do like both of those scenes means that I have a much less clear grasp of Kagenui early on.
This takes us to the finale: Monogatari as a series is one where I think endings are paramount, we get them often, they tie together seemingly disparate themes and ideas from earlier scenes and end strong. To that end Nise ends with what is the second strongest episode as of its watch in Tsukihi Phoenix 4.
We start incredibly strong with the discussion of the dying bird, and Tsukihi as an imposter, essentially harmless but nonetheless an immortal, inhuman existence. And start off with Koyomi continuing right where we left off lying to a well-meaning Karen, and I like her here as I went over, and getting to see Koyomi and Karen so firmly on the same page.
He sure does kiss Tsukihi, and her reaction does send me, he felt nothing kissing her so it doesn't count, while technically being further than he went with Karen how the scene goes does feel much more familial than with Karen's case. I really like him saying there may have been a time where he wasn't a brother, but there's never been a moment where she wasn't his. and Karen's sister, it's one of his finer moments of first season.
We continue on with Koyomi on speaking terms with Shinobu again, and it's the sorta scene that reminds me we've definitely moved forward with Nise, it meanders, but meaningful developments have happened, even if not particularly with the characters the arcs are named after.
Kagenui is brutal, and does present valid points on what Tsukihi's nature could mean, for how others in the family would feel about her, and how she'd act, even if Koyomi's got no issue with it, so we get to see Koyomi, as Senjougahara said in Karen Bee 'a man of justice' say he's fine being the worst type of person, I love how the shot of his eye looking up meshes with the one of the one at the start of the episode with the Dying Bird opening monologue. But what I really love about the Kagenui scenes is the discussion of fundamental good and evil. That good acts are a lie/fake altruism, but in being fake also deliberate, I think that thought experiment carries beautifully into Neko Black and discussions of who Hanekawa is, and also are worthwhile reflecting on in with Araragi.
The thought experiment over which is worth more, the fake or the real is one I've always found interesting and is my overall takeaway from Nise; because I love Kaiki's angle with it. I will say that if you think of the imposter as an object, it's easier to angle that either Kagenui's is right, like with a painting, or that Oshino's right if it fulfils the same purpose, but if you look at the imposter instead as a human; as a fake genius who through effort is indistinguishable, whether it's a musician, or a self-trained medic who gets the same results, then it becomes impossible for me not to have special appreciation towards the one putting effort in to bridge the gap in ability, as opposed to one with natural talent. There are angles where I can be swept up into saying I absolutely believe the imposter can be worth more than the real thing.
And we end the end really strongly harkening back to the start of the episode; where Araragi recounts with Tsukihi as if it was nothing; we get the nice mirror of 'I'd marry you both' with 'I hate you both' and one last hypocrisy of refusing to meet their boyfriends but saying he'll introduce them to a Senjougahara who's freshly cut her hair.
Tsukihi Phoenix's final episode absolutely carries this arc, but I love how it brings Nise together as a whole.