r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • 12d ago
Rewatch Pandora Hearts Rewatch - Episode 09
Malediction
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Questions of the Day:
1) Thoughts on Philippe and his dad, Oz and his dad?
2) Why does Oz's dad hate him?
3) What is the Mystery Man's deal?
3
u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba 12d ago
First Timer
I was going to say that this is a pretty funny way for Oz to frame it, but thinking to this flashback at the start, maybe it really is like that...
Missed last episode, so I'll do a bit of a double here, with last episode asking the important question of how sure we are that Break isn't the actual villain to watch out for in this show I love him. I do also love him and Sharon's commenting on Gil's heartfelt moment with Oz (The smol Oz and Alice are very appreciated too) lol. Just very strong troll energy all around! But that aside, he did still answer a few questions there. First of all, the aging thing with him and Sharon is because they're contractors, but "Legal" ones through Pandora, though that still comes with an apparently not insignificant personal cost to life. And I assume this is what the Baskerviles do too? Or at least Zwei.
I do wonder how a legal contract actually comes about and what defines it relative to an illegal one. I mean, I guess there would be more concrete terms, but how that interaction even happens and how it might affect the power of a Chain relative to an illegal contract might be interesting to see. And a legal contract still takes a toll on the body, but what happens to the Chain afterwards? Does it get to chill in the regular world? Sent back to Abyss? Presumably it wouldn't be quite the same as with the illegal ones? More importantly, Break can't say they're contractors and not have me curious about what their Chains do! Well, Sharon mentions being in Gil's shadow, and Break seems to have some weird transportation ability, so that's probably part of it, but I am interested in actually seeing them in action. One would think Emilly is somehow related to Break's Chain or is actually it, but honestly, I'd love it if Break really was just that into ventriloquism and everyone just went along with it.
The other big thing he brings up is more of an elaboration on why they'd want the Will of the Abyss, namely because they view it through the function of creating Chains, which are weapons, and getting to control that function would be a pretty big deal. If I want to look at it with the current dynamics at face value, then under Pandora, Chains could be locked away so that there aren't new illegal contractors being made (And subsequently killing a lot of people before being killed themselves) and maybe do some funky research on it, while if the Baskervilles get it, they'd use it for any number of evil purposes. But evidently, we've shown before Pandora isn't the most straightforwardly trustworthy either, nor am I sure how much I buy Break saying this is all they know about the Abyss, or really, even if it is, how correct these assertions are, especially when they don't seem to really understand the goals or movements of the Baskervilles, so it feels like there's definitely room for some twists there. Though I do think it's still going to be up to Oz to be the key to his own mysteries, as Break said.
Alice was also great last episode, whether that's in being cutely dumb or in being cutely arrogant. Oh, and I kind of love that Gil always gives his hat to Oz whenever he leaves him alone? I just love the protective intention behind it, and it even actually ends up being pretty handy when Oz meets Echo in this episode too! Anyway, the other half-ish of last episode focused yet again on Oz's strange adaptability and emotional approach, or as Break put it, his somewhat twisted nature. I think last episode mostly just carries over into this one, where we get the full context behind that time Oz was scared of finding out why his dad hates him.
Seems I was pretty right to think that event was the thing that molded his current personality. Back when we saw part of that flashback a few episodes back, I thought it was an emotional response to his feelings around dwelling on that fear that had Oz creating that trait, but it looks like it's also because of the fact that his (Very reasonable) emotions and fear of indecision drove Gil to confront his dad, which had some pretty major repercussions on him as well, on top of Oz still getting to directly see the very crushing way his dad hates him. So then if he just takes and accepts everything as is, then he can feel he doesn't hurt himself, nor does he get anyone else hurt for his feelings either. Despite the smile he puts on here, there really obviously is something very pained there for Oz when he says that, and I'd say given both the situation in this episode, as well as hearing the words his dad told him in Alice's case a few episodes back, that's still there, just very repressed and always ready to come out even more painfully.
And the emotionally unhealthy mindset Oz has stuck himself into aside, it all just really sucks to see! Even more after learning how Oz was very hard on himself in trying to live up to some imagined expectation from his dad. And for some extra emotional mileage there, Gil also actually blames himself for trying to do that at all. They also kind of had the same thing going when Oz was ready to shoot himself back in the mansion in regards to Gil's promise IIRC, and the way their dynamic plays into that is pretty interesting. Also, I'm not going to go back and relisten (And yet again, I obviously can't just check VA lol), but I'm like 85% sure Oz's dad has the same voice as the Baskerville leader guy, so I'm feeling even more sure about that theory.
I'd say having a new Chain to deal with means Oz doesn't have too much to dwell on some of this again, but I guess the nature of this Chain and Oz's desire not to rob a kid of a father he loves (Like he really wished he'd had) means we get to multitask that, especially if he actually does manage to stop Alice, which could be a pretty big development! Well, that Chain also means we get introduced to Echo, and I like her a lot! How could I not love a very taciturn and overly straightforward character like her? Very fun by itself, but I like her design too, and the handblades are very cool! So hopefully she stays around for a while.
Oh, and that new Pandora guy with the glasses that Break talks to is totally voiced by Suwabe! Is this show just going to have every VA I like?
More importantly, Echo works for Vincent Nightray, who we get a little glimpse of here, and presents some questions himself. If I'm right about Oz's dad, I wonder if Gil joined the apparently Nightrays after Oz was sent to the Abyss because he saw him there. I guess now that we obviously see that Oz's dad would've had no reason to want to keep Gil around after Oz was gone, it could also be that Gil was intentionally poached by the Nightrays as a move against Oz's family as well. Either way, with his whole "Watch and learn" thing to Echo this episode, it looks like he's not unaware of Oz's situation? So, as with Oz's family, it'd be very interesting to explore the Nightrays some more, and Gil's family situation, both now and what he'd been through in these 10 years.
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u/lC3 11d ago
I was going to say that this is a pretty funny way for Oz to frame it, but thinking to this flashback at the start, maybe it really is like that...
how sure we are that Break isn't the actual villain to watch out for in this show I love him
Break is great. If you like his character, I'll look forward to seeing your reaction to [redacted] later in the anime!
I do also love him and Sharon's commenting on Gil's heartfelt moment with Oz (The smol Oz and Alice are very appreciated too) lol.
And I assume this is what the Baskerviles do too? Or at least Zwei.
I assume so? I'm not sure.
I do wonder how a legal contract actually comes about and what defines it relative to an illegal one. I mean, I guess there would be more concrete terms, but how that interaction even happens and how it might affect the power of a Chain relative to an illegal contract might be interesting to see. And a legal contract still takes a toll on the body, but what happens to the Chain afterwards? Does it get to chill in the regular world? Sent back to Abyss? Presumably it wouldn't be quite the same as with the illegal ones?
I would like it if they deal with / answer this later!
More importantly, Break can't say they're contractors and not have me curious about what their Chains do!
but I am interested in actually seeing them in action.
me too!
One would think Emilly is somehow related to Break's Chain or is actually it, but honestly, I'd love it if Break really was just that into ventriloquism and everyone just went along with it.
If I want to look at it with the current dynamics at face value, then under Pandora, Chains could be locked away so that there aren't new illegal contractors being made (And subsequently killing a lot of people before being killed themselves) and maybe do some funky research on it, while if the Baskervilles get it, they'd use it for any number of evil purposes. But evidently, we've shown before Pandora isn't the most straightforwardly trustworthy either, nor am I sure how much I buy Break saying this is all they know about the Abyss, or really, even if it is, how correct these assertions are, especially when they don't seem to really understand the goals or movements of the Baskervilles, so it feels like there's definitely room for some twists there
Yeah, definitely some room for twists.
Oh, and I kind of love that Gil always gives his hat to Oz whenever he leaves him alone? I just love the protective intention behind it, and it even actually ends up being pretty handy when Oz meets Echo in this episode too!
Seems I was pretty right to think that event was the thing that molded his current personality. Back when we saw part of that flashback a few episodes back, I thought it was an emotional response to his feelings around dwelling on that fear that had Oz creating that trait, but it looks like it's also because of the fact that his (Very reasonable) emotions and fear of indecision drove Gil to confront his dad, which had some pretty major repercussions on him as well, on top of Oz still getting to directly see the very crushing way his dad hates him
And the emotionally unhealthy mindset Oz has stuck himself into aside, it all just really sucks to see! Even more after learning how Oz was very hard on himself in trying to live up to some imagined expectation from his dad. And for some extra emotional mileage there, Gil also actually blames himself for trying to do that at all
I hope they can heal and grow!
Also, I'm not going to go back and relisten (And yet again, I obviously can't just check VA lol), but I'm like 85% sure Oz's dad has the same voice as the Baskerville leader guy, so I'm feeling even more sure about that theory.
Well, that Chain also means we get introduced to Echo, and I like her a lot! How could I not love a very taciturn and overly straightforward character like her? Very fun by itself, but I like her design too, and the handblades are very cool! So hopefully she stays around for a while.
Oh, and that new Pandora guy with the glasses that Break talks to is totally voiced by Suwabe! Is this show just going to have every VA I like?
hopefully!
I guess now that we obviously see that Oz's dad would've had no reason to want to keep Gil around after Oz was gone
that figures
So, as with Oz's family, it'd be very interesting to explore the Nightrays some more, and Gil's family situation, both now and what he'd been through in these 10 years.
2
u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba 11d ago
3
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 11d ago
First Timer
ep 9
Malediction — I've played Dawn of War far too much.
- terrible maid setting Oz up for traumatic disappointment
That looks like English but I'm not going to read it. I assume somebody else will. It's probably Alice in Wonderland.
So we have the re-occuring phrase. "Never should have been born." Applied to both Oz and Alice. Spoken both by Duke Bezarius, and the leader of the Baskervilles.
- This show has almost as many teas and cakes as K-On. Almost.
- which is The Grim? I don't remember it.
- Unexpected Ciel.
- #facepalm
- I find it really problematic that Raven keeps B-Rabbit sealed. She can't act, when it's important for her to act. And then Gil get's himself mind-controlled.
Oz controlled B-Rabbit as Zwei controls Doldum. Or doesn't control, sometimes.
1
u/lC3 11d ago
Malediction — I've played Dawn of War far too much.
Is this a gaming reference?
terrible maid setting Oz up for traumatic disappointment
Echo?
That looks like English but I'm not going to read it. I assume somebody else will. It's probably Alice in Wonderland.
The book Oz was reading? It's an in-universe book series called Holy Knight.
So we have the re-occuring phrase. "Never should have been born." Applied to both Oz and Alice. Spoken both by Duke Bezarius, and the leader of the Baskervilles.
This show has almost as many teas and cakes as K-On. Almost.
which is The Grim? I don't remember it.
That worm Chain with a hand sticking out.
I find it really problematic that Raven keeps B-Rabbit sealed. She can't act, when it's important for her to act.
Probably so Oz's incuse doesn't advance as fast? But yeah. This might end up biting them in the ass in the future sometime.
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u/StickPrevious9581 11d ago
As soon as the kid showed Oz the photo of his dad, I knew he was going to show up, probably as a Baskerville or Illegal Contractor...
Look! Oz even admits he is bullying Gil!
Well, Oz's dad is starting to look like a contender (but not a winner, yet) for the worst father in anime award, assuming he really was the one to send him to the Abyss.
Yep, Philippes dad is a contractor - called it.
So, the Will of the Abyss is setting other chains on Alice now? At least she won't have to search hard for more chances to find her memories.
Nice of the chain to help Oz down to a level where Gil can release the seal...
I am assuming the man that stopped Echo is Vincent - I wonder if Echo is his chain, rather than a servant? She seemed to follow his order to stop before she even knew he was there.
Alice seems to be regressing to the 'Bloodthirsty B-Rabbit' that she said she wasn't a bit - thats not concerning at all. Also, she claimed Grim 'turned on her' - does that mean he was somehow working with her in the Abyss?
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u/ShadowGuyinRealLife 11d ago
Yep, Philippes dad is a contractor.
How did you know it wasn't him?
1
u/StickPrevious9581 10d ago
To be honest, I never even considered the kid - as soon as he just so happened to have a photo of his dad on him and showed it to Oz, I could tell that the dad would be relevant in some way - so when he started to get targeted by Echo I just jumped straight to 'leverage against his dad'.
1
u/lC3 11d ago
As soon as the kid showed Oz the photo of his dad, I knew he was going to show up, probably as a Baskerville or Illegal Contractor...
Look! Oz even admits he is bullying Gil!
Well, Oz's dad is starting to look like a contender (but not a winner, yet) for the worst father in anime award, assuming he really was the one to send him to the Abyss.
Yup
So, the Will of the Abyss is setting other chains on Alice now? At least she won't have to search hard for more chances to find her memories.
Seems like it, or the Chains just know what will please her.
Nice of the chain to help Oz down to a level where Gil can release the seal...
I am assuming the man that stopped Echo is Vincent - I wonder if Echo is his chain, rather than a servant? She seemed to follow his order to stop before she even knew he was there.
Alice seems to be regressing to the 'Bloodthirsty B-Rabbit' that she said she wasn't a bit - thats not concerning at all. Also, she claimed Grim 'turned on her' - does that mean he was somehow working with her in the Abyss?
I'll try and see what the official translation says about "turned on her". Do you have a timestamp? I recall one line where she said something like she didn't bother with Grim in Abyss / it wasn't worth her time ...
2
u/StickPrevious9581 10d ago
The line on the version I watched at 21:23, was translated as 'You will pay with your life for turning on me!" Which at the time I understood as 'because you have betrayed me', but on second watch might just be an awkward phrasing for 'because you have attacked me'
2
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 12d ago
Pandora First-Timer, subbed
Damn… – Also is that the voice of one of the people who attacked Oz’s coming of age ceremony or am I tripping?
This screenshot out of context makes it look like Oz is a straight-up villain.
Echo… And she works for Vincent Nightray?
Okay, Oz, 1) that makes your relationship with Gil sound even worse, and 2) where the fuck did you pull that dog collar from?
…ah fuck, Philippe’s the illegal contractor Alice sensed. He was tricked into the contract with the idea of seeing his mom again, wasn’t he?
Oh, it’s not Philippe. Then, Philippe’s dad?
Okay but what’s going to happen if you do stop her from fighting here?
3
u/ShadowGuyinRealLife 11d ago
Apparently not.
Alice either didn't appreciate Break's entrance either or she just didn't like being monitored by him, as we saw last episode.
…ah fuck, Philippe’s the illegal contractor Alice sensed.
Given Oz and Alice were seen by Echo at Raven's place and he was talking about work to them, she should have mentioned she was looking for an illegal contractor instead of "hand over Phillipe" to Oz. She didn't know Gil and Oz's old relationship. But she should know Oz works for their employers at Pandora.
Okay but what’s going to happen if you do stop her from fighting here?
Raven/Gil is a combatant. Given the target is weakened, I can imagine he can finish it off if Oz would let him. It would be a shame if they all died because they went pacifist.
2
u/lC3 11d ago
Given Oz and Alice were seen by Echo at Raven's place and he was talking about work to them, she should have mentioned she was looking for an illegal contractor instead of "hand over Phillipe" to Oz. She didn't know Gil and Oz's old relationship. But she should know Oz works for their employers at Pandora.
Yeah ... but Echo is kinda airheaded, so maybe it just didn't occur to her.
It would be a shame if they all died because they went pacifist.
2
u/ShadowGuyinRealLife 11d ago
Yeah ... but Echo is kinda airheaded
It is in character for her
1
u/lC3 11d ago
It is!
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u/ShadowGuyinRealLife 9d ago
I always have a problem with the supposedly smart character does something kind of dumb and doesn't have "I was drunk" as an excuse but I'm fine with airheads and their comedic moments.
2
u/lC3 11d ago
Smol Oz really is a cutie though.
What father couldn't love him?
Ah, Oz.
Poor Gil lol
Damn… – Also is that the voice of one of the people who attacked Oz’s coming of age ceremony or am I tripping?
I did say not to check the VAs on MAL etc., so ...
This screenshot out of context makes it look like Oz is a straight-up villain.
I'd watch a show about villain Oz?
That strange girl is looking for Philippe?
Yeah ... she's pretty strange
Apparently not.
I kinda ship Break and Reim
Okay, Oz, 1) that makes your relationship with Gil sound even worse, and 2) where the fuck did you pull that dog collar from?
Just wait until you see the Specials lol
Yup, looks like it.
Sounds like he'd be an easy target for a Chain to tempt
Go figures.
LOL airheads both
Okay but what’s going to happen if you do stop her from fighting here?
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u/lC3 12d ago
09: Malediction
- That kiddo Philippe reminds me of Jan from DGM
- Mrs. Kate filling Oz's head up with false hope?
- what studies? he's just reading Holy Knight again
- Oz was always close to a tipping point?
- Oz was afraid of finding out why his dad hates him?
- Gil went to ask himself? Uh oh
- "should never have been born" WELP he said it
- "Filthy little thing" HOW CRUEL
- "just have to accept everything as it is"
- "could this be destiny?"
- ... she doesn't remember Oz? weird
- obstruction of justice? dispose of him?
- "Grim" got away?
- "I'm Gilbert Nightray's owner"
- Echo seems ditzy
- Vincent sent her?
- ... is Philippe an Illegal Contractor? did make a contract to change the past?
- Echo not A-ko?
- Philippe is a hostage?
- Oh it's the dad?
- HAHA they had to run because Oz isn't there?
- Blond? is that Vincent? He's kinda hot
- The Mystery Man is talking to Oz again? Oz can "take the reins"?
- cliffhanger? Rude
1
u/IndependentMacaroon 10d ago
First musical pocketwatch
Just catching up to this now. A bit too much mystery-box and straightforward trope stuff particularly in the beginning, and the visual production particularly in the battles can't quite keep up, but the style is fundamentally just as good as on Case Study of Vanitas, trying to undo and fight tragic fates and portents as a theme I always appreciate with Oz's unsettlingly non-unsettled attitude toward it particularly interesting, and the cast in general I like too.
Echo here seems like the prototype for Jeanne in Case Study of Vanitas, and Philippe's dad looks kind of like Shou Tucker as well as being in a similar situation and I doubt his final date will be much better. Otherwise here, besides the cheaply executed Alice-Grim fight, anything that explores Oz and his background more I like a lot.
1 - Philippe's dad I would guess is intended as a dark mirror of Oz's, instead of coldly disavowing his son going much too far for his sake, and maybe also his own - see again also Shou Tucker.
2 - Prophecy business, either he hates what his son is said to become or he specifically needs to be distant and dismissive somehow to push Oz towards his fate. Maybe something similar went on with Alice (unsuccessful attempt?)
3 - Oz's dad and greater mastermind
4
u/ShadowGuyinRealLife 11d ago
Rewatcher
Oz don't tease the hired help so much.
Echo, even if you didn't know who Oz was, you could have said you were hunting a criminal not "hand over that kid or I slice you." Or if you recognize he was from Pandora but don't know he is specifically (given that he was in a building only used by the organization as a residence), say you were hunting an illegal contractor.
We're on a coupon collecting quest for Alice's memories! There is always a chain near each one. Sadly, some chains are probably out there on their own.
Is that chain stupid? I thought the Will of the Abyss wanted Alice back with her. So he should be trying to capture her.
Break called Sharon "Ojou-sama" once and several members of Pandora call her "Sharon-sama." Can she actually give orders to Break and Oz? Not that this is really needed but I didn't notice this the first time.
Phillip's dad probably made a deal to get power to do something for him. You know like the dad who works overtime and doesn't come home. Except in this case even if the fate of illegal contractors wasn't to get dragged into the Abyss, this would be like criminal work so it's not the brightest idea.
Oz's dad might hate him for the "rich guy can't find a suitable heir and he thinks his son is a failure" kind of thing. With a backstory like this, that guess is right 7/8 of the time. regardless of the reason, it seems Oz wasn't disturbed by it too much and went back to normal the next day, but Gil says he's close to a breaking point and we see a string.