r/anime • u/Raiking02 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang • 9d ago
Rewatch Dragon Ball 40th Anniversary Rewatch - Week 32: Z Episodes 30-35 Discussion
Episode 30: A Hot, Unbounded Battle! Gokú vs Vegeta
Episode 31: Now, Gokú! A Final Technique with Everything on the Line
Episode 32: Battle Power Times 10!! Vegeta’s Great Metamorphosis
Episode 33: Don’t Die, Father!! This is Gohan’s Hidden Strength
Episode 34: Shoot, Kuririn! The Genki Dama Packed with Hope
Episode 35: Bring Forth a Miracle! Super Saiyan Son Gohan
<- Previous Week | Index | Next Week ->
MAL | Anilist | Kitsu | AniDB | ANN
Remember this well, you trash… There aren't going to be any more miracles… Next time we meet you're all dead! Be sure to enjoy yourselves to the fullest until then…
Hello everybody! Time for the Comment of the Week, courtesy of /u/spiritualpossible because... well...
Earth S.W.A.T.
1) Did you ever imagine Yajirobe would have this big a role after the Piccolo Arc?
2) Did you expect that Gokú wouldn't be the one to defeat Vegeta?
3) What is your final verdict on the arc?
Next Week: Episodes 36-44
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u/tripleaamin https://myanimelist.net/profile/tripleaamin 9d ago
First-Timer
We got the big fight between Goku & Vegeta. It's interesting to me how each value their strengths. For Goku he takes pride in being strong and desires to be strong. I guess for Goku it is more in a pure sense. He loves the thrill of fighting and challenge. Of course as we see with both this fight and the Piccolo fight his logic doesn't make the most sense just to ensure he has someone to continue to fight.
Vegeta is the complete opposite. He is completely ego-driven. If someone is too weak or worthless he just gets rid of it. He basically screams Edgelord. While Goku looks at the thrill of fighting someone stronger. It's like Vegeta is insulted you think you could even think of beating him. At the start he doesn't go full out against Goku because it is part of his ego.
I really like the theme of the fighting. As Goku uses Kaio-ken alongside the team up of Gohan, Kuririn and Yajirobe. The whole point of pure talent doesn't mean everything. Goku uses Kaio-ken more and more at the risk of his own body. This is a trade-off I like because it provides a risk.
Also to see that Goku doesn't truly beat Vegeta by himself is even better. For the first time in this series a fight will have to be won by someone or various characters other than Goku. Granted he does coach everyone who is nice to see. Goku is smarter than you expect in terms of fights, but his common sense has a lot to be desired. (Though I do have to say how Goku talks to Gohan doesn't feel different than how he talks to Kuririn, which is weird.)
It is interesting that in his Ape form, Vegeta can retain his self unlike Goku. It's actually terrifying regarding the Sayians this monstrous form can be trained. Though I love the team-up and the fact that the coward Yajirobe was able to cut Vegeta's tail was so well done.
I do admit Gohan getting his tail back has too good of a timing. Still it's nice that unlike his father he could retain some form of self. It could be cool if this is one area that Gohan could work on as seen with Vegeta. I think what makes this fight satisfying in particular is that Gohan is the one who brings Vegeta down. Gohan who is going through his first real fight because unlike Goku and the others he didn't get the chance of a tournament to get real action.
But man it is frustrating when Goku asks Kuririn to spare Vegeta. I had an issue with sparring with Piccolo, but there is the argument that Piccolo did not commit the crimes of Piccolo Daimao. Considering this is still Kid Goku (just with a bigger design) battle junkie and all I can live with it.
Vegeta was responsible (even though not directly) for killing Yamucha, Tenshihan & Chaozu. Goku had intense anger towards Piccolo Daimao for killing Kuririn. While here him just being fine to let Vegeta go feels the equivalent of letting Piccolo Daimao for me. Also it really feels also that Goku is the same Goku. Which wouldn't be a problem, but Goku is a husband and father. He should ensure that Vegeta won't be able to put the family he has now at risk again. Tbh Goku feels closer to Gohan's uncle than father. We are having Piccolo feel more like a father to Gohan than Goku. It feels to me Gohan was created to showcase what a human-Saiyan hybrid can be. The other stuff that came with that comes later.
With that being said I am curious how things go from here. The word that the true evil is still out obviously means there is more to go. Though with Piccolo dead what will the series do without the Dragon Balls.
Also is next week 9 or 11 episodes? Since number is different from index.
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u/Raiking02 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang 9d ago
Also is next week 9 or 11 episodes
Whoops, my bad there. It's 36-44.
Tbh Goku feels closer to Gohan's uncle than father. We are having Piccolo feel more like a father to Gohan than Goku
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: Gokú and Gohan's relationship is surprisingly underwritten given how big a deal the MC having a kid was.
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u/Raiking02 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang 9d ago edited 8d ago
Hello everybody, and welcome to the Dragon Ball Z Rewatch!
Adapted Chapters: 227 (Pages 13-End)-241 (Pages 1-12)/519
Damn, by this show's standards 14 Chapters in 6 Episodes is basically the equivalent of a marathon
- Noob Vs Elite
Ah, Gokú and Vegeta. I fucking hate this pairing. Not because of this series, but because [Spolers]it's basically taken over the whole franchise since the end of the original series and I'm utterly sick of them. Still, this is long before that and therefore I can actually enjoy their dynamic. Gokú exists to break Vegeta's ego. Vegeta was born great, yet here's this scrub making him so much as bleed.
[Spoilers]Plus you know it's the first time we've done this plotline and we haven't gotten to the point where they reuse the exact same plot point multiple times within the same arc
DB's fights are at their best when the heroes are blatantly in a disadvantage IMO and this is a great example. Yes, Gokú does overpower Vegeta, but it leaves his body a wreck and shows how wide the gap between the two is. Yet through the Kaio-ken, Gokú is able to show that raw power isn't everything. It's why it's one of my favorite techniques in the series, it's one of the few that isn't just a slightly different beam.
The whole deal with the moon is one of those things that show that maybe Toriyama wasn't as bad at planning as people say. The way both Gokú and Vegeta are so confused about what's going on here is great, but the big thing of course is Gokú learning that he was the one to kill his own grandfather. It's brief and alas the series never really lets him dwell on it, but him saying that he'll make sure to apologize when he dies again is such a bittersweet moment.
Still, it nevertheless falls into the usual "Gokú has to save the day so no one else can do anything" which I've already complained about a million time-HEY WAIT A SECOND!?
- Revenge of the Supporting Cast
And this my friends is why I can't complain about Gokú kill stealing Nappa: Gohan and Kuririn get payback! Yup, for the first time ever Gokú is genuinely down for the count and the other two plus freaking Yajirobe have to be the ones to finish things. Gokú still has a role, sure, but it's very much not his fight anymore.
I love this so much, and part of it is because it even fits into the fight thematically. Gokú himself said it, even a Low-Level scrub can surpass an elite if he tries hard enough, and here's two people canonically weaker than Gokú being the ones to ultimately settle things after he roughed up the prince a bit. That scene with Gohan desperately buying time while Kuririn preps the Genki Dama is genuinely intense, and seeing it finally connect is so rewarding.
And the best part is that even after that it just keeps going. Normally I don't like fights that drag this much, but here it works because you can tell it's just as exhausting for the characters as it is the audience. The fight ends with Vegeta being literally squashed like a bug with a naked Gohan on top of him, good lord. Heck, if anything that's the best argument to make for Gohan's increased role in the Anime; he was the one to ultimately beat the big bad. So yeah, good job Toei.
Semi infamous flub on Nozawa's end here, by the way. That's supposed to be the Masenko but I guess either no one caught it or they were like "Eh who cares" (Reminder, a lot of Animes back then didn't bother with retakes since those are considered overtime). I think they fixed it in Kai but I can't be bothered to check. Honestly I get why she made the mistake though if only because the Masenko is basically just Gohan's version of the Kamehameha.
[Spoilers]You know, until Toriyama decided to give him the actual thing
- Choices, Choices
Like Piccolo before him, Gokú ultimately lets Vegeta go. Unlike Piccolo… yeah there really is no excuse for this. Even Gokú admits he's being really selfish. Now, before I say anything else, let me make it clear that I actually like this bit in isolation. You really feel Kuririn's rage here (Easily Tanaka's best outing in the role) and to Gokú's credit he doesn't try to justify himself, he just asks for one single favor.
My issue is that this basically becomes Gokú's character from now on. Him just being a battle maniac is slowly but surely gonna become his only personality trait, and this is the start of it being shown as very much a problem and not just some weird quirk. It doesn't help that while here Gokú admits that what he's asking is wrong, he'll never say such things again. From now on, Gokú just being like this is taken for granted.
I think the bit that bugs me is the part of him saying that it may be his Saiyan blood asking for battle… and the reason it bugs me is because it's a good idea, it's just the series takes the wrong lesson from it. If it was something Gokú has to wrestle against, something he knows is wrong but can't help himself, I'd be okay with it. But that's not what we get. Instead it's just treated as Gokú being Gokú, yet the more the show goes on, the more I start to question how much Son Gokú is just the prototypical Saiyan.
I have to wonder how much of this was Toriyama improvising. Vegeta proved insanely popular so I wouldn't be shocked if his editor asked him to keep him around for at least another arc. Credit where it's due, I think the next arc is Vegeta's best showing as a character so I don't object to keeping him around, I just wish Toriyama did more with Gokú's side of this, because as is it just feels like an excuse to keep Vegeta around more than anything else.
[Spoilers]I mean he's completely right which makes Toriyama's attempts to "Redeem" Vegeta all the more groan-worthy God I'm gonna fucking hate the Cell Arc
- Speaking of Vegeta…
Okay so like… am I the only one bugged by him having a proper ki technique? Like the way I read the Saiyans surprise at how much the Battle Powers kept going up and down was because they're so used at perpetually being at full blast, whereas the Earthlings can control their Ki with far more finesse. As such using techniques like the Kamehameha or Makankosappo, which basically puts them at their absolute maximum, is a shock to the Saiyans since normally they're much weaker.
But here's Vegeta who has a technique in the form of that Galic whatever you call it, so… why were they so surprised earlier? It'd be one thing if this was just Vegeta shooting a really strong generic blast, but this is treated as a proper technique in universe so… what? I dunno, it's probably just something Toriyama didn't think about, but it kinda bugs me.
Filler Corner
- The Peanut Gallery's Commentating
Not much to say, the stuff at Kame House serves as occasional comic relief as usual. I will say though, after hearing Chi-Chi whine so much about how her Gohan-chan is an innocent little boy, her going full psycho and screaming at him to kill Vegeta is as hilarious as it is weirdly triumphant in a weird way.
Also Lunch's final scene is her being drunk at a bar after Tenshinhan's death. That's… honestly just depressing, what the hell Toei? Did you really need to have her drop out like this?
Animation Studio Spotlight:
Episode 30 is Aoshima's final episode on the show. It's also one of their most iconic though, so I don't think anyone's really complaining. Honestly no one drew Vegeta's hair as well as they did, with everyone else it's way too stiff by comparison.
Really wish Episode 33 could've gone to Shindo Pro instead. It's not Studio Live's worst but it's easily the low point in an otherwise really good looking fight. 34 especially is absolutely gorgeous; by far Studio Junio's best work on this show and easily one of the best looking episodes in all of Dragon Ball.
… Hey so like, why did Last House get most of the episodes featuring monkees anyway
Final Animator Tally for the Arc
Last House: 11
Aoshima Katsumi: 5
Seigasha: 5
Studio Live: 5
Studio Junio: 5
Shindo Pro: 4
Good lord is there a lot of Last House in this arc; over 30% is them. Their work is still fine although they're gonna start falling soon enough but still, over twice the episodes of any other studios and they still have 61 episodes left in them. Shocked at how little Shindo there is though.
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u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 9d ago
Okay so like… am I the only one bugged by him having a proper ki technique?
I have never really thought about it this way but you make a very good point. I did always relate it more to the fact earthlings can "power up" but even that interpretation doesn't make any sense with the happenings in this batch... or this arc when both Nappa and Vegeta are shown to raise their battle prowess.
Toriyama forgot, probably.
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u/Raiking02 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang 8d ago
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u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 8d ago
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u/SpiritualPossible 9d ago edited 9d ago
Rewatcher
And here it is. The final battle of this arc. The iconic fight that also marked the beginning of the famous rivalry between these two characters, which continues to this day.
Let's talk about Lunch instead.
As mentioned in previous comments, starting with the “Z”, Lunch practically disappears from the story for good, which is quite a sudden development. The anime gave her a little extra screen time, which is certainly nice, but today’s scene at the bar is, in essence, also her final appearance in the anime as well. So, what happened?
Well, according to Toriyama himself, he… simply forgot about her. Given his writing style, that’s actually very easy to believe. However, Mami Koyama offered HER OWN explanation, which, in fact, differs from that - she was planning to go abroad for a year and therefore PERSONALLY asked Toriyama to reduce the number of appearances of Lunch. Thus, we have TWO different explanations from the parties involved. And given Toriyama's tragic death, we'll probably never know for sure what really happened. But, if I may speculate, I'd assume that they're both telling the truth.
Here what i think happened: Mami Koyama did indeed ask Toriyama to stop including Lunch in the story, which is precisely why he came up with this sudden explanation - that Lunch had left Roshi’s house to pursue Tenshinhan - so she was no longer part of the main cast, BUT he could still bring her back into the story at virtually any time once Koyama returned. But time passed, and Toriyama continued writing without even thinking about Lunch, even after Koyama’s return. And when he FINALLY did remember her, he realized that the “opening” he’d left for her had become useless, since the story had developed in such a way that there simply wasn’t any room left for Lunch.
Or, to put it simply: Toriyama didn't intend to remove Lunch from the story entirely; he just wanted to put her on hold until her voice actress returned, but then he forgot to bring her back. What a tragic turn of event.
...Oh yeah, and the fight between Goku and Vegeta is cool. i guess. I've said before that I find it hard to discuss episodes when they're all about a single fight. What can I say: this is probably one of the best fights so far. I love how the moon and the Saru form were handled, and how Goku finally learned the truth about his grandfather, and I ABSOLUTELY LOVE that Yajirobe saved the day in the end (powerscalers are in shambles). The plot even added a tragic twist to this fight by revealing at the end that Goku suffered brain damage during the battle - since that’s the only reasonable explanation for why he let Vegeta live.
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u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 9d ago
The whole Mami Koyama stuff is really interesting, I've heard about that a few weeks ago too and yeah, your speculation makes a lot of sense, all things considered. I get that the story moved on but maybe try and give her a nice ending instead of whatever the hell the anime did here. (Or give Koyama another cool role in the show)
The plot even added a tragic twist to this fight by revealing at the end that Goku suffered brain damage during the battle - since that’s the only reasonable explanation for why he let Vegeta live.
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u/Raiking02 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang 8d ago edited 8d ago
Or give Koyama another cool role in the show
Although TBH I can't really think of who he could've played. [Spoilers]No.18 maybe? I mean she'd probably be a bit too old sounding for the role by the time she debuted given she's meant to have a very teenage/very young adult vibe going for her, but still.
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u/Raiking02 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang 9d ago
Lunch Stuff
As a bonus, there's a (Very Spoiler Filled so First Timers do not open) article on Kanzenshuu that's basically the people there debunking the myth of Toriyama forgetting Lunch in general. It seems the answer was that he forgot that he didn't forget Lunch, especially given how some of her filler scenes in this show were his idea.
The quote of him forgetting Lunch comes from 2003 too, waaaaaay after the Manga ended. I don't doubt he'd forgotten Lunch by then, but it seems during the original serialization she never really left his mind.
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u/SpiritualPossible 9d ago
Oh yeah, I wanted to mention that article too, but then… I forgot about it (pun not intended). I think the fact that Toriyama continued to draw Lunch everywhere outside of the manga itself may serve as proof that he originally removed her from the plot for Koyama’s sake and hoped she would return later in the story. I’m willing to bet that if he did forget about Lunch, it happened during [spoilers for future arcs]the Android arc. Given all the time-travel shenanigans and the various groups of characters, as well as how long Lunch had already been absent by that point, it would have been easy for him to forget to bring her back into the story and later simply not find a place for her.
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u/Raiking02 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang 9d ago
Oh yeah, I wanted to mention that article too, but then… I forgot about it
Clearly writing your comment turned you into Toriyama.
[spoilers for future arcs]
[Spoilers]That seems likely. By then she would've been out of the story for about two years, so more than enough time for him to realize "Oh God I completely forgot to bring Lunch back... eh, whatever I guess."
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u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 9d ago edited 9d ago
Rewatcher
fahsionably late cause he fell asleep yesterday
Two things that don't really have much to do with this week's batch but I thought I'd put them here anyway because they were pretty cool/funny:
Addendum 1: I learned a few days ago that Toriyama might or might not have referenced Superman with that Goku holding Nappa in the air pose from last week? Specifically Superman #8 from 1987.
It was recently referenced on a variant cover of Absolute Batman and this tweet chain kinda sent me down a rabbit hole of references. I dunno how much is actually true but I think it's pretty cool either way.
Addendum 2: Recently (I think two weeks ago), I was joking about the whole moon situation in DB sounding like a plot from Haruhi Suzumiya and yesterday I found this fanart on Bluesky! Technically a spoiler for DB Super but it's basically just a character that gets introduced around the middle of it. If you know, you know
With that out of the way... uh
This week on DRAGON BALL Z:
The shocking conclusion of the Saiyan Arc!
This batch featured a lot of now (in)famous DBZ combat tropes:
- Let's fight somewhere empty!
- A lot of screaming to power up, causing various disruptions in the atmorsphere!
- Trading blows so fast you cannot really see anything!
- The Genki Dama coming out as Goku's secret last resort against an overwhelming villain. (and it subsequently failing to finish them off)
And in the end Goku actually lets the bad guy go because he's just so excited to be fighting a strong enemy
There's definitely something (negative) to be said about so called "brick wall" bosses in this show (and the wider genre) but at least with Vegeta it was kind of deserved, he had a reputation to lose after all.
Vegeta actually living up to the hype is cool and he's always just a bit better than Goku, making the fight interesting enough. Especially once Vegeta is pushed enough to transform into a giant ape(Oozaru), he doesn't even need a moon for it, because he uses the moon projector in his capsule can just create a glowing ball that emits light of the same frequency as moonlight, apparently. Toriyama just can't leave anything alone, no, we need a pseudo-scientific explanation, that doesn't hold up once you think more than a second about it, for this thing too! Whether it's training or something unique to Vegeta that makes him able to control this giant ape form, however, Toriyama does not bother to explain ([GT]Actually, I don't think he's able to control himself later on and neither is Goku. Admittedly, my GT knowledge is more than a bit spotty though.).
The struggle against Oozaru!Vegeta is really gruesome, especially once he gets ahold of Goku. You can even hear Goku's ribs cracking . Admittedly it's pretty in-character for what we've seen from Vegeta to take delight in slowly crushing Goku's body, but still I think I could've gone with a bit less detail.
And when all hope is lost, the day is saved by YAJIROBE, who cuts Vegeta's tail. I think this would've been a good enough finale for this arc but apparently we need to have Vegeta still go on, despite being pummelled by Goku, expending a good part of his Ki for the glowing makeshift moon, transforming into an Oozaru and then being forced back into humanoid form by the cutting of his tail. Feels a bit much to me but oh well. I do enjoy seeing the cruel and mostly collected villain completely lose his shit in the face of a sheer unwillingless of our heroes to die, even after a super cool all-out attack.
Not even the Genkidama, the glowing ball of defeating evil, which is thankfully transferable to other people, is enough to finish off Vegeta. This is kinda funny to me: It's the first new move from Goku since learning the Kamehameha and it's neither enough to win the fight nor is it even fired off by Goku. At least it was a nice lightshow (a bit too much flickering for my taste though...)
So now saving all of humanity falls onto Gohan, who sprouts the magic tail of plot relevance to transform into an Oozaru. Unfortunately, this is still Gohan, so even as a multiple stories tall ape, he's almost useless .
Unfortunately for humanity, Vegeta is able to hold his own against the monster (despite being half blind and thoroughly Genkidama fried) and get rid of Gohan's tail again. Fortunately for humanity, Vegeta didn't think things through completely and gets burried under the body of the kid, which is at least enough to almost KO the evil Saiyan. So, in a way Gohan did save the day and almost avenged his teacher.
Unfortunately (again) for humanity, Goku begs Kuririn to have mercy with the guy that is partly responsible for the death of most his friendgroup and definitely wanted to kill all of them. I get that you don't want to paint your heroes as cold-blooded murderers and I do like that it's treated in-universe as a dumb decision but still... Goku just going " DON'T KILL HIM! I JUST LOVE FIGHTING STRONG PEOPLE!" is a new low for him so far.
Apart from all the battling, there was also a lot of "peanut gallery" shots, which I largely did not care for. It was nice seeing Baba interact with the rest of the cast and them using her crystal ball as tv. I think this is Lunch's last appearance in the show in any bigger capacity? It's really a shame how the character's last scene is just ending up drunk in a bar crying over some guy's death.
All in all, this was a decent ending for DBZ's first big arc though, I'll say. Despite my gripes with the final scenes and Goku's plea for mercy. Fight was worth the hype.
for all of "characterisation marches on", it's funny how "I can't possibly be weaker than this Kakarotto guy" is such an early part of Vegeta's character.
Gohan be like:
- "Gohan, the earth is in danger!" - I sleep!
- "Gohan, do it for Piccolo" - REAL SHIT!
Scouters exploding when they get too much Ki reading? Must be Star Trek technology :D
QOTD:
1) Did you ever imagine Yajirobe would have this big a role after the Piccolo Arc?
I don't think I saw it coming as a kid. But he's always been my Glob Shitto, so it was pretty cool.
2) Did you expect that Gokú wouldn't be the one to defeat Vegeta?
Goku not getting the final hit in? PREPOSTEROUS!
3) What is your final verdict on the arc?
My gripes with the ending aside, I think this is a decent first arc for the "new" show. It hasn't aged as badly as I thought it would have before rewatching. Even if you can already see stuff that will become very annoying down the line, it mostly succeeds in setting the stage and tone for the future of DBZ (and the franchise).
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u/Raiking02 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang 9d ago
I learned a few days ago that Toriyama might or might not have referenced Superman with that Goku holding Nappa in the air pose from last week? Specifically Superman #8 from 1987.
That's interesting, although that does lead me to wonder how widespread distribution of American comics in Japan even was back in the 1980'.
Recently (I think two weeks ago), I was joking about the whole moon situation in DB sounding like a plot from Haruhi Suzumiya and yesterday I found this fanart on Bluesky
[GT]
[GT]It's weird. Vegeta loses control of himself for two or three minutes but then gets it back. Maybe he was out of practice?
Goku just going " DON'T KILL HIM! I JUST LOVE FIGHTING STRONG PEOPLE!" is a new low for him so far
The unfortunate problem of just needing an excuse to have the heroes spare the guy instead of just... I dunno, injuring Kuririn and Yajirobe a bit more so they couldn't get to him in time, I guess.
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u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 9d ago
That's interesting, although that does lead me to wonder how widespread distribution of American comics in Japan even was back in the 1980'.
That's what makes me question the whole thing too (and why I wrote might or might not have). The Batman cover seems like a DBZ reference though, at least. Either way, it's neat!
I dunno, injuring Kuririn and Yajirobe a bit more so they couldn't get to him in time, I guess.
Yep. This could have been solved better without making your protagonist look like an irresponsible tool.
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u/Raiking02 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang 9d ago
The Batman cover seems like a DBZ reference though, at least
That one seems more likely, yeah. Helps that there's over three decades between Gokú vs Nappa and that cover, so more than enough time for the reference to become more widespread.
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u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv 9d ago
Rewatcher, Sub
A day late I know, I was studying and working which didn't allow me to write my thoughts.
Episodes 30-35
Anyway these episodes slowly completely break down Vegeta's entire worldview. He starts off with as much pride as anyone can have looking down at Goku. Then he soon realizes that Goku has more power even than him. He goes from Pride to Wrath and desperation as he realized he is in fact not at the top of the food chain.
Goku also gets to try out the Kaio Ken which works well but soon Vegeta is able to hold out, these include literally making an artificial moon which shows you what powers we are now dealing with.
In the end it's Kuririn and Gohan who finish the job which I'm glad about. It shows Gohan continue to grow and shows Kuririn's willingness to stand his ground. His reaction when Goku chooses to spare him makes complete sense but he in the end allows this one favor lets hope it doesn't come back to bite him.
Anyway Vegeta is still around and it's obvious he's not done yet so we'll see what he does next.
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u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta 9d ago
Semi-Rewatcher
A great batch of episodes this week! The best we've gotten since switching from DB to DBZ, for sure.
These episodes (particularly 30) have so many incredibly iconic shots and poses, like that initial standoff between Goku and Vegeta. It's crazy how memorable it all is.
We get a couple interesting moments this week where the English dub differs quite drastically from the original Japanese meaning:
- In English, just before the fight starts, Vegeta offers Goku a chance to join him as an underling and replace Nappa. In Japanese, he takes that time to insult Goku and call him a low-class piece of trash, cast out from Saiyan society.
- In English, Goku asks Krillin to spare Vegeta to "show him another way" and says "if we kill him, we'll be no better than he is," and so on. In Japanese, Goku explains that he simply thinks killing Vegeta would be a waste since he's such a powerful opponent that can inspire him to reach new heights.
I definitely prefer the Japanese here, especially in the latter example. I've always hated the "we'll be no better than he is" trope, and switching from something unique/interesting to that is a major stain on the English version here.
As a side note, the Ocean dub gets really funny with the Vegeta monologue leading up to the power ball, with the lines about "radical weaponry" and Goku's father being a "brilliant scientist." (I recommend looking it up online if you aren't familiar with it.) Brian Drummond's voice as Vegeta is so cool! Not quite cool enough for me to want to watch the Ocean dub, but cool nonetheless.
During the fight, we got lots of pretty pointless cutaways to the gang back at Kame House. Chi-Chi is so annoying here! She just faints, wakes up, yells Gohan's name, and faints again. Such a terrible character. I could do without seeing those cutaways at all, for that matter.
In fact, if I recall correctly, I'm pretty sure Kai cuts way back on all that unnecessary stuff, plus it fixes the dialogue issues. I'd definitely rewatch Kai instead of Z in the future (for the first half, at least) if I had to pick one.
Anyway, there was lots of good music, as always. Kikuchi's OST really can carry a scene.
I thought the art was quite consistently good, too. Good lighting, some moments of nice sakuga, and lots of great battle damage and wear/tear on our characters and their clothing.
The part where Goku realizes that he was the one to kill his own grandfather and destroy the tournament grounds is quite impactful. I remember that moment when I was watching Kai the first time (long before I ever watched the original DB), and even having no prior knowledge of Goku's backstory, that emotional moment landed well.
Questions of the week:
- Being a (semi-)rewatcher, yes. :-) Otherwise, no, I would not have expected it. [Later DBZ] Too bad he is never relevant again.
- Being a (semi-)rewatcher, yes. :-) Otherwise, no, I would not have expected it.
- My final opinion on the arc is firmly positive. I think the Saiyan arc (including Raditz, the Saibamen, Nappa, and Vegeta, minus all the filler in-between) is quite strong and only gets better as it goes. At least on par with the best content of the original series, maybe better. The filler drags it down a bit, but it's nothing I couldn't get through.
2
u/zsmg https://anilist.co/user/zsmg 9d ago
Rewatcher
I watched all the episodes this week.
I think that was quite possibly the best final arc villain fight as this was the first time since the first arc that Goku didn’t single handedly beat the bad guy. Usually the rest of the cast are there to make Goku look good and strong, (Drum) simply there to run commentary (Budokai arcs) or not there at all (Red Ribbon arc) But in this fight Goku couldn’t do it by himself, everyone else left alive had to contribute (including Yajirobe! ) and that’s awesome! I also like how by the end everyone is physically beaten up and exhausted, which really hammers down how everyone gave it their all in this fight.
The fight choreography was great, the pacing was mostly fine and the only complained I have is the typical obnoxious padding where we switch to Kame House to see what they’re up to taking me out of the fight although I was pleasantly surprised by to see Lunch again, I had completely forgotten about that filler.
Also Kaio Ken is such an awesome power, the colour red, the sound effect and it has a genuine downside and limitation [spoiler] which will get ignored from this point on and then the move gets replaced by Super Saiyajin. But at least the non Saiyajin character will put the move to good use… Anyway Saiyajins are beaten, there are no more Dragon Balls, so now what. Let’s find out next week (okay fine the episode 36 title already reveals what’s going to happen, but let’s pretend we don’t)
Funniest joke:
In episode 31 Yajirobe shouting he wished he ate more meat buns was funny.
In episode 34 Toei kept Vegeta's exclamation marks when he sees the Genki Dama always cracks me up.
This hasn’t aged well:
The episode 35 title calls Gohan a Super Saiyajins. [spoiler] a bit too soon for that.
This won’t age well:
In episode 35 Vegeta calls himself the mightiest warrior in the universe, sure thing buddy.
In the same episode Goku tells Kururin to let Vegeta take away and claims that this is the only thing I'll ever ask for myself. [spoiler] Kururin thinks Vegeta won't have a change of heart. To be honest he’s mostly right.
This won’t happen again:
Vegeta’s ego getting humiliated will never happen again [spoiler] and it will never stop being satisfying
In episode 34 Genki Dama fails. I'm sure it will be successful next time. In the same episode they all thought the bad guy was dead. Funny thing is the same thing happened against Piccolo. Still I’m sure this won’t happen again.
Osu, ora Goku
In episode 30 Goku gets excited fighting a super strong enemy, this is explained in the manga that this is caused by Saiyajin blood who love to fight strong opponents.
Two times Kaio ken isn't enough and is going for three times Kaio Ken.
In episode 31 Goku is forced to use Kaio Ken four times to defeat Vegeta in the beam struggle but his body isn’t taking it well. A simple slap from Yajirobe causes lots of pain for Goku.
In episode 32 Goku realises he killed his own Grandpa, a great moment but sadly not given enough time to let it sink in due to being in the middle of a fight.
Goku is pretty much physically broken at the end of the Vegeta fight.
In episode 34 Goku suddenly has psychic powers, must be a Saiyajin thing (see Vegeta in the bug planet filler)
Crybaby Gohan
Episode 31 establishes Gohan can fly.
In episode 32 Gohan wants to go back to help his dad.
In episode 34 luckily for Gohan the Genki Dama doesn’t affect people with a pure heart and he’s able to deflect it towards Vegeta.
Kururin and the other humans:
In episode 33 Kururin fails with his Kienzan (again) but Yajirobe uses his sword to cut off Vegeta's tail.
In episode 34 after missing two Kienzans Kururin also missed Vegeta with the Genki Dama.
In episode 35 Muten Roshi can sense ki, despite not being trained by Kami. Yajirobe once again shows up to save the day and cuts Vegeta in the back. Sadly it doesn’t kill him.
Vegeta [spoiler] Prince of Saiyajins
In episode 31 Vegeta is not taking it well that Goku is stronger than him, I loved the scene where he sees his own blood and gets upset about it.
In episode 33 in case you missed the hint: Vegeta calls himself Vegeta-sama, the guy definitely has an ego.
One Punch Goku
In episode 33 Vegeta takes out Kururin with a single kick.
Saiyajins, a warrior race:
In episode 30 we find out that Saiyajins rate their babies based on their BP, strong ones are elites and weak ones are sent away like Goku.
In episode 31 we find out the reason why Saiyajins transform into an Ouzaru, it involves lots of technobabble and magical particles.
Let me borrow that move of yours:
In episode 32 Goku uses Tenshihan’s Taiyo-ken, he apologizes to Tenshihan beforehand.
In episode 34 Vegeta copies Kienzan and manages to hit the target, see it's not that hard Kururin.
Positives changes from the manga:
In episode 33 there is a great sunset background art during Kururin and Gohan’s flying and when they reach Goku and Vegeta’s location it’s then daytime.
In episode 35, they extended the fight scene between Ouzaru Gohan and Vegeta.
Filler Failure
In episode 34 Gohan is shouting Kamehameha but his arm movements are Masenko, although to be honest does it really matter what the attack name is? A ki blast is a ki blast.
Unexpected Foreshadowing
In episode 33 Vegeta calls Gohan a Super Saiyajins [spoiler] a bit too soon for that but it does establishes he has no clue what a Super Saiyajin is. (and yes I’m well aware Vegeta uses the term mockingly)
In episode 34 Kaio says that defeating Vegeta doesn’t defeat the root cause of evil… which is what exactly?
OVER 9000!!
In episode 32 it is said that an Ouzaru form increases the BP of a Saiyajin 10 fold.
Hang on…
In episode 31 Vegeta mentions zeno as a form of measurement? They named a measurement after [spoiler] the god of all multiverse
In episode 32, shouldn’t Goku already know that Saiyajins turn into Ouzaru, Kaio told him about it after all back during their training.
Also why is Goku standing in plain sight while gathering his Genki Dama, instead of hiding behind a rock.
In episode 33 Goku, I don't think you have the time to info dump to Kururin what a genki dama is just give him the ki.
In episode 34 aren’t Kaio and Goku just putting more pressure on Kururin by saying he only has one chance. also considering Genki Dama doesn’t affect people with a pure heart does that mean Kururin can ride Kinto’un now?
Look at all the new fancy techniques we picked up [spoiler] and it never shows up again:
In episode 31 Vegeta’s Gallic-Ho is a move that will show up plenty of times… in video games. Not so much the anime.
Transformation:
In episode 31 Vegeta transforms into an Ouzaru and in episode 35 it’s Gohan who turns into an Ouzaru
Retcon:
In episode 32 Goku says he lost the Genki Dama but then in episode 33 he has some of the ki left.
Toei spoiling in the episode preview:
The preview for episode 31 reveals that Vegeta is going full Ouzaru.
The preview for episode 33 Vegeta loses his Ouzaru form, but doesn't reveal how, you can see the scene of Yajirobe running away but not the context.
The preview for episode 34 doesn't spoil whether or not the Genki Dama will hit?! Well done Toei you can keep your previews spoilers free!
2
u/Raiking02 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang 9d ago
Let’s find out next week (okay fine the episode 36 title already reveals what’s going to happen, but let’s pretend we don’t)
TBF even earlier in the show they somewhat foreshadowed it.
The episode 35 title calls Gohan a Super Saiyajins. [spoiler]
[Spoilers]TBF it's written differently here vs later on.
In episode 31 we find out the reason why Saiyajins transform into an Ouzaru, it involves lots of technobabble and magical particles.
You know, I wonder what sort of technobabble excuse Toriyama would make for Man Wolf around this point in his career.
In episode 34 Gohan is shouting Kamehameha but his arm movements are Masenko, although to be honest does it really matter what the attack name is? A ki blast is a ki blast.
If Toriyama can't be bothered to make ki techniques distinct, why should anyone care what they're called?
2
u/cooperjones2 https://myanimelist.net/profile/cooperjones2 4d ago
LATAM Dub rewatcher here!
Man, new anime season made me late but the remaster (remake?) of DB Super was worth it!
Ep 30 – 31
Is Vegeta really that much stronger?
Seems like not even with the Kaio-ken he’s not near his level
Damn, Launch took Ten Shinhan’s death really hard…
Oof, even the scouter broke with the Kaio-ken x3
Vegeta got blown away!!
Goku has won!
Wait, he’s still alive?
Oh shit, he was waiting for the moon, good thing Picoro blew it up
HE CAN MAKE A FAKE MOON TO TRANSFORM!?
Ep 32 - 33
Gokú finally learns the truth about the Tournament and his Grand dad
Ten Shinhan would be proud for his technique being used IMO
The Oozaru form is just way too powerful!
YAJIROBE MY BOY CAME IN CLUTCH
Damn, not even in a 2v1 they can do something against Vegeta
C’mon Gohan, buy enough time for Goku and Krillin!1
Ep 34 - 35
KRILLIN PLEASE DON’T MISS
HE DIDN’T MISS!
HE’S NOT DEAD?!
Gohan got his tail again!
NOOOO Yajirobe my boy pls don’t die!
Goku wants Gohan to transform!?
HAHA not so great when you’re getting destroyed by the Oozaru eh, Vegeta?!
Oh, but he’s berserker
Krillin about to finish him
Goku wants to let him live?!?!
Fun facts:
- The OST at the end of episode 30 is one of my favorite OSTs EVER, I still have it on my music rotation
- There’s a mod for Monster Hunter World, where Rajang (A monkey monster) gets transformed into Vegeta’s Oozaru form and another one where the OSTs is replaced to the one at the end of ep 30
1 Was waiting for his moment to shine!
2 I didn't remember it at all, I thought they ended in a draw
3 8/10 !
5
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 9d ago
First-Timer Searching for the
SilverDragon Balls Z, subbedEpisode 30
What is Chi-Chi gonna do once she gets Gohan back…
Don’t count your chickens before the eggs hatch, Vegeta.
Damn straight. Dunk on him, Goku.
Ooh…
Alright then.
Oh shit is this…?
Mm, of course Lunch didn’t take that very well.
No, he’s not actually transformed.
Wow, Yajirobe.
Uh-oh.
Oh, damn. It actually broke the damn thing?
Episode 31
He’s literally steaming, goddamn. Was this inspiration for Luffy’s Gear Second?
Goku looks kinda funny in this shot ngl.
Looks like that one hurt.
Roshi’s probably not wrong…
Are you, though?
Oh, now what…
Beam clash! Oh that was a lot of flashing light.
That’s crazy…
Goku’s going even higher?
Vegeta survived that…
He’s going to transform? But there’s no moon…
Well, it wasn’t him that did it…
Alright then…?
…he’ll still be able to transform that way?
I guess the Saiyans’ clothes are meant to size up with them, huh.
Episode 32
Briefly had the thought of “Oh shit, is Gohan going to transform from seeing that too?”, but then I realized his tail hasn’t grown back yet, so that can’t happen. Would’ve been interesting though.
Ah, Gohan is still going back, though. What’s he going to be able to do…
So I guess it’s possible for Saiyans to not go insane when they transform, huh?
Goku’s totally planning to die in order to defeat Vegeta, dang.
Not good.
Ooh, blinding him with Tenshinhan’s Taiyo-ken was a good call.
Ah shit, the Genki Dama faded away without Goku actually being able to use it?
Yikes…
He was able to take out one of Vegeta’s eyes, but…
Episode 33
That’s true, but will you actually be able to pull it off?
Yajirobe’s such a coward.
Of course Vegeta dodged.
Oh shit! Yajirobe came back?
Yeah…
This is a nice passing the torch moment. Ganbare, Gohan!
Goku’s giving the Genki Dama to Kuririn?
Kuririn better not miss…
Episode 34
Chi-Chi’s motivated cheering didn’t last long.
I believe in you, Kuririn!
Yajirobe, you’re the idiot for giving Vegeta a heads up.
What are they supposed to do now?
Oh. Hm. That?
It connected!!!
Damn, Vegeta is remarkably more intact than I thought he’d be after taking that attack.
And he’s still kicking, wtf.
Gohan’s tail is back!
So he might get to transform after all?
Episode 35
Ooh, a “sore demo” from the narrator right at the start!
Yajirobe!
No way was that actually what took Vegeta out though…
Welp, there he goes. Gohan can’t control himself in that form though…
Unless…?
Dammit.
What was that…?
Oh, a way to remotely call his travel pod.
What.
Damn, Goku.