Rewatch Pandora Hearts Rewatch - Episode 13
Keeper of the Secret
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Questions of the Day:
1) Who or what is Jack Vessalius?
2) Thoughts about Vincent's actions this ep?
3
u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba 9d ago
First Timer
I wonder what happened with Oz's cat from the start
Well, at least we have CAT now. Unfortunately for Gil, I suppose haha. I actually totally forgot Gil's fear of cats, so how much this affects this confrontation was kind of hilarious and a really fun callback. I will say that, for being the Cheshire Cat, our Cheshire here does mostly look a lot more bemused rather than the expected grin, but nevertheless he's pretty cool! Speaking of cool designs, holy shit Sharon's Chain is a flaming dark unicorn Looks like the shadow teleporting is just her power, though, so I think that we've yet to see what Break's Chain does at all, though hopefully being locked in some past dream mirror will be an opportunity to see it and also just learn more about him.
Anyway, we get some pretty major reveals this episode! Apparently Alice herself was the one who scattered her memories because she wanted to forget the time she "Lost everything". It's emotional repression again! No wonder she and Oz get along so well... Seriously though, as the episode itself says, the nature of Alice's actual identity is still a big missing piece of the puzzle here, namely in where the Will of the Abyss slots in and whether or not she and our Alice are like, aspects of "Original Alice" as it were, as a result of the memory splitting.
Either way, we also get the rather important reveal that Daisuke Ono is actually Jack Bezarius, and he was obviously very important to her, also apparently being at the core of the memories she wanted to forget. He's also like, the spitting image of Oz? Or I guess it'd be the other way around lol. I mean, obviously Oz is descended from him, but they even basically have the same hairstyle, just with Jack having longer bangs because he's older, which is uncanny to a degree that definitely makes it seem like they have a specific special connection somehow, and seeing as Jack can also somehow just talk to Oz and Gil, there's absolutely some weird magic shit going on with him. That heavy resemblance between the two of them also probably explains why Alice so immediately felt a connection and trust between them at the start? Honestly, depending on how much of this stuff with Jack Alice ends up getting by the end of this little excursion, it could be a pretty interesting shakeup in her relationship with Oz.
I will say I'm not huge on how we learn about some of the stuff from 100 years ago here? I mean, I get it's necessary, but it's kind of in that awkward place where Vince, Oscar, and Suwabe's characters all already know this information, but they still need to deliver it as exposition, so it just comes off as pretty unnatural dialogue. Well, whatever, we do learn that the Tragedy was the Baskervilles straight-up sending a whole city to the Abyss, and that it was Jack who stopped them back then. They also have a gate to the Abyss of their own, and both they and Pandora want the other's gate to get to the Will. Though, as with Pandora's general goals, I'm thinking there's plenty of opportunity for some twists. I mean, for one, I'm still holding on to the idea that Oz's dad is working with the Baskervilles. Then there's Vincent, who straight up admits himself here that his allegiance isn't really with Pandora, but with what serves his seemingly rather obsessive relationship with Gil, so he's a real wild card here too. And whoever he's aligned towards, Break and Sharon are evidently not included in that! He apparently sent Echo to do... something to Sharon. Hopefully she's fine? I really don't want Echo as a villain either!
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u/lC3 7d ago
I wonder what happened with Oz's cat from the start
The white cat, Dinah? I wonder too!
Well, at least we have CAT now. Unfortunately for Gil, I suppose haha. I actually totally forgot Gil's fear of cats, so how much this affects this confrontation was kind of hilarious and a really fun callback.
And Cheshire is totally cute!
Speaking of cool designs, holy shit Sharon's Chain is a flaming dark unicorn
Best Chain design so far?
Looks like the shadow teleporting is just her power, though, so I think that we've yet to see what Break's Chain does at all, though hopefully being locked in some past dream mirror will be an opportunity to see it and also just learn more about him.
Anyway, we get some pretty major reveals this episode! Apparently Alice herself was the one who scattered her memories because she wanted to forget the time she "Lost everything". It's emotional repression again! No wonder she and Oz get along so well..
Seriously though, as the episode itself says, the nature of Alice's actual identity is still a big missing piece of the puzzle here, namely in where the Will of the Abyss slots in and whether or not she and our Alice are like, aspects of "Original Alice" as it were, as a result of the memory splitting.
Hopefully we get some answers soon!
Either way, we also get the rather important reveal that Daisuke Ono is actually Jack Bezarius, and he was obviously very important to her, also apparently being at the core of the memories she wanted to forget. He's also like, the spitting image of Oz? Or I guess it'd be the other way around lol.
but they even basically have the same hairstyle, just with Jack having longer bangs because he's older, which is uncanny to a degree that definitely makes it seem like they have a specific special connection somehow, and seeing as Jack can also somehow just talk to Oz and Gil, there's absolutely some weird magic shit going on with him
Well, whatever, we do learn that the Tragedy was the Baskervilles straight-up sending a whole city to the Abyss, and that it was Jack who stopped them back then. They also have a gate to the Abyss of their own, and both they and Pandora want the other's gate to get to the Will. Though, as with Pandora's general goals, I'm thinking there's plenty of opportunity for some twists
Definitely some room for twists in this series!
I mean, for one, I'm still holding on to the idea that Oz's dad is working with the Baskervilles.
That's a pretty popular idea, yeah
Then there's Vincent, who straight up admits himself here that his allegiance isn't really with Pandora, but with what serves his seemingly rather obsessive relationship with Gil, so he's a real wild card here too
Bro-con much?
He apparently sent Echo to do... something to Sharon. Hopefully she's fine? I really don't want Echo as a villain either!
2
u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba 7d ago
The white cat, Dinah? I wonder too!
And Cheshire is totally cute!
Best Chain design so far?
Bro-con much?
More seriously, though, assuming it's not just always been his natural state, I do actually wonder why he's so attached to Gil. Surely we have many degrees of tragic backstory we've yet to explore!
2
u/lC3 5d ago
That he is!
If Break bullies him too much, I will volunteer to adopt Cheshire! I wonder if he likes cold milk, or tuna ...
YES
Mad Hatter truly based
So it would seem
I wonder if Gil will ever learn about all Vincent did "for him"
More seriously, though, assuming it's not just always been his natural state, I do actually wonder why he's so attached to Gil. Surely we have many degrees of tragic backstory we've yet to explore!
Uh oh...
3
u/StickPrevious9581 8d ago
I forgot that Gil was scared of cats, that was a well planned and foreshadowed moment.
Looks like Sharon is about to get assassinated, with no Break and no Chain to defend her - hope she has another protector.
I agree, Oz - Break isn't worth all that effort :) Alice, on the other hand...
The whole dimension was created by Alice's memories - I wonder if that means she will free them by absorbing all the memories and destroying the dimension.
So, has Gil never brought out Raven to fight because all his power is used on sealing Alice's power? That just makes the decision even worse - sealing Alice's power actually means they have TWO combatants that can't fight.
Considering how the Cheshire Cate seems really attached to the Alice that tore apart her own memories (now the Will?), but willing to kill the Chain Alice, I wonder if the Chain Alice is actually a portion of the lost memories that somehow became their own person?
Well, dropping that many people into the Abyss is a great reason for the Dukedoms to want to wipe out the Baskervilles.
The way Vincent said that Pandora getting their hands on the fifth Abyss gate would be 'our checkmate' - our as in he misspoke and accidentally revealed his allegiance to the Baskervilles, our as in he believes or knows getting the fifth gate will be a trap for Pandora, or just badly phrased translation and by 'our checkmate' he means Pandora wins?
2
u/lC3 7d ago
I forgot that Gil was scared of cats, that was a well planned and foreshadowed moment.
Looks like Sharon is about to get assassinated, with no Break and no Chain to defend her - hope she has another protector.
Echo how could you? FUCKING VINCENT
I agree, Oz - Break isn't worth all that effort :) Alice, on the other hand...
Break is worth it to his legion of fans!
The whole dimension was created by Alice's memories - I wonder if that means she will free them by absorbing all the memories and destroying the dimension.
hopefully?
So, has Gil never brought out Raven to fight because all his power is used on sealing Alice's power? That just makes the decision even worse - sealing Alice's power actually means they have TWO combatants that can't fight.
Considering how the Cheshire Cate seems really attached to the Alice that tore apart her own memories (now the Will?), but willing to kill the Chain Alice, I wonder if the Chain Alice is actually a portion of the lost memories that somehow became their own person?
Well, dropping that many people into the Abyss is a great reason for the Dukedoms to want to wipe out the Baskervilles.
The way Vincent said that Pandora getting their hands on the fifth Abyss gate would be 'our checkmate' - our as in he misspoke and accidentally revealed his allegiance to the Baskervilles, our as in he believes or knows getting the fifth gate will be a trap for Pandora, or just badly phrased translation and by 'our checkmate' he means Pandora wins?
I think he means "Pandora wins", even though it sounds like he's more involved with the Baskervilles than anyone else knows.
3
u/TheDanubianCommunard 8d ago
First-time, subs
Everything is really converging into one single point. The events from 100 years ago. So let me reconstruct it if possible: the Baskervlles caused the Tragedy of Sabrié, but Jack Bezarius stopped them to escalate into an even bigger disaster. Since then they disappeared, Jack was lauded as a hero, and that made the Bezarius family into the light, the positive side. Which also means during this time, the Nightrays did something involvement in this to make them the dark side, the bloodstained ones. And Alice is a major player in these chain of events. She also lived during that time, deeply connected to Jack, and "exiled" into the Abyss. She must have some sort of regrets and did some unwanted things which caused her some memories to be scattered everywhere and the majority is sealed in the Cheshire Cat's place.
The Baskervilles returning from the shadows, the contract of Alice/B-Rabbit and Oz while searching for her memory fragments, and struggle for to get the Will of Abyss via the Fifth Door, seems like everythig set a big conflict.
1) Who or what is Jack Vessalius?
A man who is more than he looks at first glance.
2) Thoughts about Vincent's actions this ep?
He is really playing 4D chess.
2
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 8d ago
Which also means during this time, the Nightrays did something involvement in this to make them the dark side, the bloodstained ones
It's just the Atreides and the Harkkonens all over again (before?).
2
1
u/lC3 7d ago
Everything is really converging into one single point. The events from 100 years ago
It IS the big mystery people like Sharon and Break want to know about! And probably connected to whatever Oz's "sin" is.
the Baskervlles caused the Tragedy of Sabrié, but Jack Bezarius stopped them to escalate into an even bigger disaster. Since then they disappeared, Jack was lauded as a hero, and that made the Bezarius family into the light, the positive side.
Yeah, that's pretty much what we've been told so far.
And Alice is a major player in these chain of events. She also lived during that time, deeply connected to Jack, and "exiled" into the Abyss
She must have some sort of regrets and did some unwanted things which caused her some memories to be scattered everywhere and the majority is sealed in the Cheshire Cat's place.
Hopefully she manages to recover more memories?
The Baskervilles returning from the shadows, the contract of Alice/B-Rabbit and Oz while searching for her memory fragments, and struggle for to get the Will of Abyss via the Fifth Door, seems like everythig set a big conflict.
2
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 9d ago
Pandora First-Timer, subbed
Now that we get a better look at him, the Cheshire Cat’s design is pretty cool.
Uh, Gil, you okay? – Oh right I forgot he’s terrified of cats.
Man… I can’t unhear Usopp’s voice when Cheshire Cat talks. Especially the part where he called Oz a liar a bunch of times in a row.
Oh, I think the Jack namedrop just made my brain connect some very vague plot detail dots from when I read the manga. He’s the mysterious man that Oz keeps seeing/is in Alice’s memories, I think? – Yeah, the end of episode confirmed it.
2
u/lC3 7d ago
Well that’s not good.
Break can handle himself, he should be fine. He's a master ninja, remember?
Now that we get a better look at him, the Cheshire Cat’s design is pretty cool.
he's adorable!
I want one…is that Break’s other eye?
Uh, Gil, you okay? – Oh right I forgot he’s terrified of cats.
Gil pls
OH NOES
Oh dear…
Echo, STOP
Oh shit…!
Not Gil too!?
Man… I can’t unhear Usopp’s voice when Cheshire Cat talks. Especially the part where he called Oz a liar a bunch of times in a row.
I just hear Inuyasha.
Oh… Raim didn’t know about Oz being back, huh?
Reim is like Link, he's just the furniture no one notices
He looks… just like an older Oz.
Yes! Even has the same tuft of hair sticking out.
2
u/lC3 9d ago
I just want to apologize for not reading/replying to ep12 comments yet; I've been really sick the past two days and have barely gotten any sleep. I hope to catch up tonight or tomorrow.
13: Keeper of the Secret / Resident of the Twisted Memories
- Eques lost sight of Break's shadow?
- Go find Alice?
- What's with all the stuffed bunnies?
- Cheshire is seriously cute! And voiced by Kappei Yamaguchi / Inuyasha?
- His eyes looked like Break's?
- Break got pulled into the mirror, lost in his past?
- Cheshire calls Break "the red eyed one" but his left eye is red?
- OH RIGHT GIL IS AFRAID OF CATS!
- Sharon and Break want to know the truth behind 100 years ago?
- Why is Echo at Sharon's? Vincent sent her there to ... ?
- The memories are coming alive?
- Cheshire can smell Gil is using Raven to seal B-Rabbit?
- "It's what Alice wants" Cheshire has a big reaction to hearing that?
- Alice wanted to forget everything? She tore apart her own memories?
- Cheshire's job is to guard Alice's memories?
- The memory Alice most wanted to erase? Something to do with Mystery Man?
- ... Why is Vincent sleeping on the floor?
- Dormouse is Vincent's Chain?
- ... did Vincent forget about Reim? LOL
- Gil fell into a memory from 100 years ago?
- people of Baskerville, who the 4 Great Dukedoms eradicated?
- the Tragedy regarding the former capital of Sablier?
- DROPPED into Abyss? by Baskerville?
- the 4 gates, 4 chains held by the 4 Great Dukedoms?
- Baskerville holds a FIFTH gate? to reach the deepest level where the Will resides?
- "oh look at the time" What a convenient way to sidestep a question he doesn't want to answer?
- "I'm always thinking of Gil" What a bro-con!
- Gil regards Alice as a parasite?
- indeed, WHY is Alice the only Chain in the shape of a girl?
- The truth about 100 years ago that Break is seeking?
- The Mystery Man opens the musical pocketwatch and says Hi to Gil, greeting him by name?
- Jack Vessalius? Maybe he's Oz's ancestor?
2
u/ShadowGuyinRealLife 8d ago edited 8d ago
Rewatcher
Gil, they said multiple times it was Cheshire Cat! I just noticed his fusion arms that are a hybrid of cat and man are really uncanny. I almost understand Gil going white.
Assuming Chesire Cat isn't lying, Alice didn't want to remember. "Ah bad memory, let me get rid of it and have bliss." Not a bad idea assuming the chain is telling the truth. Only problem, she'll wake up and wonder why her head is empty. This wasn't the best plan. What she should have done was place herself in the household of some rich family in the real world right before mind wiping herself. Not dump herself in the abyss.
Dormouse looks so silly and he's kind of funny.
Pandora needing All 5 gates to get to the Will of the Abyss seems strange. Raven alone can open entrances into the Abyss. Maybe the other gates can do so conditionally too, or maybe they can't. You could in principle have Raven make an entrance and send an expedition. Perhaps they're worried about running out of ammunition while blindly searching if they don't have more resources at their disposal. The difference between landing at a random spot in the city of a girl you're trying to kidnap vs their house. But going into the Abyss with Raven alone seems to be doable and there doesn't seem to be barriers within it.
Good question Break, why is Alice in human form? Also we can see she can unleash her power in human form in Episode 2 she did epic moves swapping between human and "b rabbit" mode and Episode 3 except for the time she faked weakness she did it all in human form. Episode 12 was the first time we saw her use her powers in human form after forming a contract, which is weird since that should strengthen her. She looks and acts like a young girl most of the time. In fact given Break, a human, can use magic, if she escape from the Abyss alone without forming a contract, which is what chains do, you could be forgiven for thinking she was a human who just got stranded there while managing to piss of the Will of the Abyss.
Jack Vessalius has the same surname and hair color as Oz. So probably some ancestor. Or a brother of one if Jack died too young.
I just realize as a late comer, probably only the hosts will read this. Next time you do a rewatch u/lC3 can you get 6 real-life friends who have Reddit accounts to join you? Unlike recruiting random people on Reddit, you can ask buddies to read the threads to see if some people are late.
I miss Crunchyroll comments, you could join in late and while most people were gone, some people would talk. Well not for Pandora Hearts. They stopped hosting that around 2020 so that wouldn't be an option today anyways.
1
u/lC3 7d ago
Gil, they said multiple times it was Cheshire Cat! I just noticed his fusion arms that are a hybrid of cat and man are really uncanny. I almost understand Gil going white.
Nyan nyan? He's more humanoid than cat, I don't understand the fuss.
Alice didn't want to remember. "Ah bad memory, let me get rid of it and have bliss." Not a bad idea assuming the chain is telling the truth.
It figures, though, that she would later end up wanting to remember because she had zero memories ... maybe she could have kept SOME?
What she should have done was place herself in the household of some rich family in the real world right before mind wiping herself. Not dump herself in the abyss.
Yeah I don't know if Chains can stay in the human world for long without a Contractor. Even though Alice is special, she still needed Oz to break out of Abyss.
Pandora needing All 5 gates to get to the Will of the Abyss seems strange
It's because the Intention is in the lowest depths of Abyss, I think?
Raven alone can open entrances into the Abyss. Maybe the other gates can do so conditionally too, or maybe they can't
Yeah, but probably not to the lowest depths.
But going into the Abyss with Raven alone seems to be doable and there doesn't seem to be barriers within it.
Is Abyss bigger than expected? Is it like Abyss in Made in Abyss?
Good question Break, why is Alice in human form?
Also we can see she can unleash her power in human form in Episode 2 she did epic moves swapping between human and "b rabbit" mode and Episode 3 except for the time she faked weakness she did it all in human form. Episode 12 was the first time we saw her use her powers in human form after forming a contract, which is weird since that should strengthen her.
you could be forgiven for thinking she was a human who just got stranded there while managing to piss of the Will of the Abyss.
Jack Vessalius has the same surname and hair color as Oz. So probably some ancestor. Or a brother of one if Jack died too young.
His hair even has the same tuft as Oz's!
I just realize as a late comer, probably only the hosts will read this. Next time you do a rewatch u/lC3 can you get 6 real-life friends who have Reddit accounts to join you? Unlike recruiting random people on Reddit, you can ask buddies to read the threads to see if some people are late.
You overestimate me by thinking I have 6 IRL friends, let alone ones with Reddit accounts, or ones that are into anime. And I'm not about to let my coworkers know what my Reddit handle is.
I miss Crunchyroll comments, you could join in late and while most people were gone, some people would talk. Well not for Pandora Hearts. They stopped hosting that around 2020 so that wouldn't be an option today anyways.
2
u/ShadowGuyinRealLife 6d ago
Yeah I don't know if Chains can stay in the human world for long without a Contractor. Even though Alice is special, she still needed Oz to break out of Abyss.
Break does wonder which one was the true Alice. Her behavior suggests the human, but being in the Abyss suggests Chain.
It's because the Intention is in the lowest depths of Abyss, I think?
Based on all revealed up to this point in Episode 13, there doesn't seem to be any reason they couldn't get there using Raven alone since there seems to be few barriers within the Abyss. It could be a convenience thing. Like I mentioned maybe they don't feel like searching with no clues.
You overestimate me by thinking I have 6 IRL friends, let alone ones with Reddit accounts, or ones that are into anime. And I'm not about to let my coworkers know what my Reddit handle is.
Awww. I guess we're both lacking friends who watch anime. I'm just so sad since my best comment is about the time Gil goes back for his hat, but I was so late no one reads it. Which is a symptom of the issue of few people actually paying attention to anything but the most recent episode post. Having friends of the host could at least put a minimum to that, but I guess I can't ask for the impossible.
Fair comment on the coworker thing I woudln't either.
1
u/lC3 5d ago
Break does wonder which one was the true Alice. Her behavior suggests the human, but being in the Abyss suggests Chain.
Yeah, maybe "true" =/= "original".
Based on all revealed up to this point in Episode 13, there doesn't seem to be any reason they couldn't get there using Raven alone since there seems to be few barriers within the Abyss. It could be a convenience thing. Like I mentioned maybe they don't feel like searching with no clues.
I wonder how big the Abyss is ...
Awww. I guess we're both lacking friends who watch anime.
I'm just so sad since my best comment is about the time Gil goes back for his hat, but I was so late no one reads it. Which is a symptom of the issue of few people actually paying attention to anything but the most recent episode post.
I read anything posted in the threads I post myself; I just had like "25 new posts" in my notifications so I've been getting through them slowly.
Fair comment on the coworker thing I woudln't either.
4
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 9d ago
First Timer
Pandora Hearts ep 13
I remember when this show aired, but I didn't want to watch it. The name was too similar to Kingdom Hearts, and had an unappealing childish look. There had been Alice SOS, which was a kids show. And also, Miyuki-chan in Wonderland was just bad. So I didn't look at this show very hard.
It's really good, though.
So we have answers, and none. Jack Bezarius stole the four doors from the Baskervilles, and in revenge they cast Jack into the Abyss. There he met Alice, but she lost hime, erased her memories, and split into two.
Doesn't explain how Alice got into Abyss in the first place.
We also don't know anything about the Bezarius Chain, who could be...Oz, in the shape of Jack? Not sure how that could work.