Rewatch Hikaru no Go 25th Anniversary Rewatch: Episode 33 Discussion
The Thirty-Third Match: Team Formed!
◄ Episode 32 | Index | Episode 34 ►
Series Information:
Streams:
Purchaseable:
On Apple TV or Prime Video.
Proverb of the Day:
Learning joseki loses two stones strength.
Tsumego of the Day:
Today's theme: White to kill!
Questions of the Day:
- Is ruffling a strange kid's hair and pulling his nose okay, if he kind of has it coming?
- Ramen or sushi?
Rewatchers, remember there are first-timers present!
Be careful not to spoil anything that hasn't happened yet in the show. If you wish to discuss something in the future, make sure to hide it under spoiler tags.
Spoiler tags work like this:
[Hikaru no Go]>!Sai is cute.!<
Which becomes: [Hikaru no Go]Sai is cute.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 2d ago
First-Timer no Go, subbed
All the guys at the second salon arguing over who got to be what board was pretty funny.
They ended up going to a revolving sushi bar, so I take it Waya won the rock-paper-scissors again.
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u/Heda-of-Aincrad https://myanimelist.net/profile/Heda-of-Aincrad 2d ago
All the guys at the second salon arguing over who got to be what board was pretty funny.
It was neat how that short scene of bickering gave the feeling that these guys all have a history. They acted like people who have been playing against each other for years.
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u/wloff 2d ago
Rewatcher and your host, E-F subs
The magical trio of Hikaru, Waya and Isumi just hanging out and having fun playing go around town, this might be one of my favorite episodes!
And at the same time it's supposed to be a bit of a training arc for Hikaru, so he can hopefully get over his fear of weird adults.
Speaking of weird adults. Welcome to your friendly local go salon!
Waya with the ideas to keep things fun. I mentioned before that it looks like Hikaru is grown taller, but here he's still the shrimp in this trio. Of course, he is also the youngest.
I mean, she's technically not wrong...
And Hikaru's streak of never paying for his go salons continues!
Ooh, it's the slap bass track again! Always a sign of a good go game going on.
Somehow they win with three stones, even if Waya lost, and got some sweet Cooo-Colo as a reward. The football-themed cans are a nice touch! Since this is supposed to be June 2000, it's not a World Cup year, but... do they follow the UEFA Euros in Japan? Did Coca-Cola sponsor that competition? Or was there a football tournament in Asia that year as well?
All in all, seems like Hikaru's little training arc was a success. So much so that he becomes a regular at that go salon and makes friends with all the scary ojisans! And still never pays his admission fees.
This team match at the second go salon is somehow hilariously over-the-top dramatic.
And Isumi learns a valuable lesson about how much middle school boys are able to eat.
I was surprised how much there was in this single episode. I could've sword the trio's reign of terror at various go salons would have lasted longer than this. But I really do love this episode, it's just a good time, and it serves as a great little "fun" episode after the high-pressure preliminaries!
QotD1: I mean, really no, but in anime I'll allow it, it just means Kawai-san must be a nice and endearing guy! And Hikaru did somewhat have it coming.
QotD2: Sushi for me, but honestly, I've never yet had an amazing experience with either. Gyuudon would be my actual pick.
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u/No_Rex x2 2d ago
Somehow they win with three stones, even if Waya lost, and got some sweet Cooo-Colo as a reward. The football-themed cans are a nice touch! Since this is supposed to be June 2000, it's not a World Cup year, but... do they follow the UEFA Euros in Japan? Did Coca-Cola sponsor that competition? Or was there a football tournament in Asia that year as well?
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u/Heda-of-Aincrad https://myanimelist.net/profile/Heda-of-Aincrad 2d ago
The magical trio of Hikaru, Waya and Isumi just hanging out and having fun playing go around town, this might be one of my favorite episodes!
I enjoyed this one a lot too! But I think my favorite is still Sai's internet go mini-arc.
And Hikaru's streak of never paying for his go salons continues!
I hope he keeps this up because this gag is too good to let it go.
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u/Heda-of-Aincrad https://myanimelist.net/profile/Heda-of-Aincrad 2d ago
First-Time Viewer no Go
Waya and Isumi had a pretty good idea, bringing Hikaru to a go salon so he can practice playing against adults. And he's been missing team play since he had to quit the go club at school, so this is a real treat for him! Sai also had a good point about learning to achieve a comeback from behind victory now so it will help him in the future.
This was a good start, but I am glad they mentioned Hikaru going back on his own to play solo. Otherwise, he would run the risk of only feeling confident against adult players when he's backed up by his own (slightly older) teammates. It was a fun dynamic between them and the older guys, who at first wanted to teach the young kids a lesson but were then surprised by their skill, and in the end even started to enjoy the novelty of playing against Hikaru. The owner's a really nice guy too, and I like how he told the others no smoking when playing the kid.
The only loser here was Isumi's wallet. Poor guy, he should have picked an all-you-can-eat buffet or something.
Oh yeah, and Ogata's loss to the Honinbo was relegated to a single line of background dialogue. I can't say that I mind though because I wasn't too invested in the outcome.
Questions of the Day:
1) I would say no, but it was a different time (and culture) in the context of the show. I think this takes place during the 90s? I probably wouldn't have thought anything of it back then.
2) Raw seafood has never appealed to me, so I'm with Hikaru on this one, ramen all the way.
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u/wloff 2d ago
wloff's go corner #33
Kawai-san makes a bit of a fuss about Hikaru's move here, which the E-F fansubs fancily translates as "shinte". I'd just say "new move", or "diverting from the joseki", perhaps.
As we know, joseki are set patterns of play, usually appearing in corners. They are series of moves which in a vacuum are the best available moves for both players, and lead to an equal result. If the result is not equal, the pattern is not joseki, because the player who gets the inferior result will simply not play that way.
But there's no rule saying you must play according to joseki. When studying joseki, an easy trap to fall to is to simply memorize the moves, without understanding the meaning behind each move. If your opponent doesn't know the joseki or intentionally plays a different move, that should be a good thing, because if the joseki move is the optimal move, whatever move they played must be inferior.
But that's only true if you know how to punish the so-called inferior move. If you don't know how to answer it, it can well be you who ends up with the worse result!
In Hikaru's game against Kawai-san (which has been recognized as a 3-stone handicap game between Ishida Yoshio 9dan and an amateur player named Yoshida Shuuichi), the position arises after Hikaru approaches the corner with 1, Kawai plays the pincer at 2, and Hikaru makes a double approach at 3, a very normal continuation.
Kawai attaches with 4 and 6 and Hikaru takes the corner with 7. This is a very normal continuation after a double approach. The idea is that White can connect to one side, but Black can choose which side: if Black blocks at a, White will connect to the bottom at b; and if Black blocks at b, White can connect to the right side by extending to the point above 7.
The joseki would have White connect at 9, after which Black cuts at 10. White gets the corner and sente, but while the two white stones on the right still have a lot of aji left, they're almost dead.
With Hikaru's variation, White lives in the corner with 11 and 13, then Black moves on to attack the three stones on the right. Objectively, this is a worse outcome for White: the corner is smaller and the three stones look weak and easy to attack. But as the white player in a handicap games, Hikaru should welcome a fight and complications like this. He wants to keep the stones alive and able to fight, and count on his ability as the stronger player to out-fight his opponent!
Unfortunately, what game record we have of this game ends mid-game, but it does state that White eventually won by 13 points.
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u/wloff 2d ago
Tsumego of the Day
Today's theme: White to kill!
It's been a while, so let's get back to the good old Graded Go Problems for Beginners series for these. White to kill, because our boys are playing handicap games as white, and odds are they're going to need to kill something to catch up!
- Beginner 33-1. White to kill. If you play on the vital point, Black will die.
Beginner 33-2. White to kill. You can kill Black by forcing him to make a three-point nakade.
Intermediate 33-1. White to kill. A quiet move kills the black group.
Intermediate 33-2. White to kill. Make a shape in which Black is unable to move.
Advanced 33-1. White to kill. Create a shortage of liberties in the corner.
Advanced 33-2. White to kill. To kill Black, you have to give up a white stone.
Solutions to yesterday's problems:
Beginner 32-1
- The tsuke of Black 1 prevents White from connecting to the right.
- White can't win the capturing race, either. After 3 and 5, Black captures the white stones.
Beginner 32-2
- If you can see Black 1, the rest should follow easily.
- Trying to resist with 2 and 4 is futile. After 5, if White connects at a, Black b captures the white stones.
Intermediate 32-1
- Turning at 1 saves all the black stones. If White connects at 2, Black 3 and 5 capture all the white stones.
- Cutting at 1 is too slow. White 2 and so on captures the four black stones in a ladder, so Black never has time to atari the three white stones on the bottom.
Intermediate 32-2
Advanced 32-1
- Black wedges in with 1 and plays atari with 3. White can capture two black stones, but Black gets the whole corner.
- If Black 1 here, White 2 wins the capturing race. Black is dead.
Advanced 32-2
- Black 1 is an unexpected move which makes miai of a and b. One way or another, Black will be able to capture some white stones and save his two in the corner.
- Even if White exchanges 2 for 3, the outcome remains the same: a and b are miai to save the corner.
If you wish to discuss today's problems, please do so under spoiler tags, to give others the chance to solve them on their own! I'll be posting the solutions to today's problems tomorrow.
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u/GaimeGuy 2d ago
essentially, hikaru ceded the corner in order to blow the game wide open with a larger scale fight on the side that could carry over into the center and top. A fight he's confident he can win. He also tends to play more freely in general, even when he was a beginner and took over for sai in the go club tourney match against Akira.
He just seems to love unconventional play that leads to unorthodox, complex situations with more options
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u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer 2d ago
first time baduker hikaru no go to the polls
kyusekai?
in before Kawai retired from being a pro to be a cabbie
i mean Sai why dont you play Hikaru with a handicap
bahaha Waya didnt even win
whats hikarus plan to pay for sushi if he loses
should have taken them to all you can eat sushi
my solutions for "yesterdays" tsumego
B32-1: E2
B32-2: D2
I32-1: D1
I32-2: C2
A32-1: B3
A32-2: D5
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u/zambonijesus 2d ago
Rewatcher, manga reader, subs
Waya creating a mini-tournament to continue making sure that Hikaru never pays for his games. I love these episodes. The characters in the Go salon are a lot of fun and I enjoy Hikaru, Waya and Isumi just hanging out having fun playing go. Their dynamic together is great, like Hikaru and Waya squabbling over sushi or ramen and then Hikaru grabbing all the sushi dishes ahead of Waya. Kawai-san is yet another of my favorite characters.
I like how the whole Go Salon basically adopts Hikaru.
They've really upped their "opponents and audience members grunting in surprise about moves" game.
I do wonder if playing a bunch of handicapped games leading into the exam would have some disadvantages since there would be a risk of it altering habits since you'd adjust to playing more aggressively?
[HnG Major Spoiler]Isumi being worried about Waya raising the stakes kind of feels like foreshadowing his later arc with the pro exam.
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u/ClearlyQ 2d ago
I like how the whole Go Salon basically adopts Hikaru.
Especially after knowing how Hikaru's own parents don't really believe in him, it's nice to see him find a bunch of adults (outside of his grandfather) who do. He has his own fatherly fanbase now, lol. Reminds me of Mitani, without the gambling....
[HnG Major Spoiler] Definitely does. The series has a fair few moments of subtle foreshadowing. Like Hikaru's discomfort with adult strangers pre-pro exam, or him going off to play netgo and leaving the club early. It makes the progression of plot points feel natural and propelled by the characters.
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u/Shadowrun29 2d ago
I hope more people see this and watch Hikaru No Go. One of my favorites, and I rewatch it every so often.
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u/ClearlyQ 2d ago
partial rewatcher, manga reader, subs
"Brace yourself for the cigarette smoke" Waya says and I have to think for a moment if anyone ever smoked in the Touya Go salon. I don't think anyone other than Ogata did? Meanwhile here we're immediately treated to old men smoking. But when Hikaru starts coming there daily, the owner tells the patrons to lighten up on the cigs for his sake, which is very kind. I wonder if the Touya Go salon patrons do the same for Akira or if most of the patrons there just don't smoke at all? It's fun to think about.
I really liked this part of the series! It's both a training arc and yet also kind of a vacation (partly because it takes place during summer break). That's how you know Hikaru's a true blue Go nerd now. He's having fun spending his summer learning.
The art is a little uneven in this episode, ranging from honestly uncanny valley bad (mostly in the eyes) to stellar. But it was bound to happen considering the production method. The pastel sky background though? Flawlessly dreamy.
Isumi is so tired of these two gremlins antagonizing the adults, lmao. And also very naive for offering to treat them to dinner without an explicit price limit! He must not have any younger siblings with bottomless pits for stomachs.
QotD answers:
- Hikaru doesn't seem truly bothered by it so I'd say it's on the very border of ok. Wouldn't fly so much in real life though! Especially now.
- That's tough... I enjoy both but they're such different foods! I will say though that one of the best meals I've ever had, as in one I still keep dreaming I'll get to eat again one day, was a bowl of tonkotsu ramen from a place in Hakata. I don't think I've ever had a similar experience with sushi.
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u/Heda-of-Aincrad https://myanimelist.net/profile/Heda-of-Aincrad 2d ago
I have to think for a moment if anyone ever smoked in the Touya Go salon. I don't think anyone other than Ogata did?
Good point, Touya's place has a completely different atmosphere too - more high class, almost like a restaurant interior compared to the folding tables and chairs we see in most of the go salons.
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u/TradingStoicly 1d ago
First Timer Subbed
Super late with this entry as I forgot to do it yesterday. This was pretty much the first filler episode I can remember in this show or at least it felt like it lol. Hikaru is definitely more comfortable playing his game against a huge variety of characters so that's awesome
QOTD: 1. Definitely not okay lol 2. Sushi!
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u/cppn02 2d ago edited 2d ago
First Timer, subbed
Oh we're exploring Go salons now! And of course Hikaru isn't paying.
I really like the idea of those three kids just going out into town and challenging random player. It was ton of fun this episode and should be in the future too. With Waya framing it as Hikaru needing more experience I wonder if he'll meet his nemesis again at the pro exams.
Regarding their proposed punishment of cleaning the stones. Is that a regular go-to punishment? We've seen them do the cleaning at the go club in school but you'd think some establishment such a go salon would have a machine to clean them like a dishwasher so cleaning them by hand wouldn't be neccessary.
Btw I'll try to keep up but might not comment for 3-4 days cus I'll be visiting family.
QotD:
No!
Ramen.