Rewatch Hikaru no Go 25th Anniversary Rewatch: Episode 34 Discussion
The Thirty-Fourth Match: Don't Win
◄ Episode 33 | Index | Episode 35 ►
Series Information:
Streams:
Purchaseable:
On Apple TV or Prime Video.
Proverb of the Day:
Proverbs do not apply to White.
Tsumego of the Day:
Today's theme: Endgame calculations!
Questions of the Day:
- What's more impressive, Akira as a 2 dan pro nailing the intentional draws at four boards, or Hikaru as an insei just barely failing at the same feat?
- Have you ever been a guest of honor at some event?
Rewatchers, remember there are first-timers present!
Be careful not to spoil anything that hasn't happened yet in the show. If you wish to discuss something in the future, make sure to hide it under spoiler tags.
Spoiler tags work like this:
[Hikaru no Go]>!Sai is cute.!<
Which becomes: [Hikaru no Go]Sai is cute.
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u/wloff 3d ago
Rewatcher and your host, E-F subs
Tiny confession time: when I did a bit of prep for the rewatch a few weeks before it started, I thought I should watch a little bit from the beginning so I'd be prepared to talk about go concepts in roughly the same order as the show and whatnot. And, well, I kiiiiinda got carried away and watched all the way until this episode.
It's not like I'll be a first-timer from now on, I of course know all the main plot developments and I still remember a lot of key scenes in vivid detail, but at least I won't have pre-rewatched anything. And considering how many times I've seen the show, I've been pretty shocked at how much I've actually forgotten since my last rewatch. For instance, I didn't remember the whole Wakajishisen / Young Lions Tournament at all, and I didn't even remember how many times Sai actually played Akira in the beginning. I thought it was just once in the first episode and then once online!
So I'm excited to see what all is "new" to me from now on!
This episode was a little bit filler-ish. It's of course fun to see how well Hikaru is now treated at the go salon and how well he gets along with the folks there. And they're actually starting to come up with training regimens for Hikaru! I bet he's made himself a whole fan club following how his pro exam.
(And, of course, he doesn't have to pay the admission fee.)
I can't believe I never really paid attention, but does this guy actually have a Hitler moustache of all things? In the year 2000? Who does that? Why?!
I'll take these guys' word for it that forcing a draw like this is "easy" for pros. It sounds pretty bonkers to me. Like, no doubt you can get close, but in the final endgame amateurs can do all kinds of random, weird mistakes that cost them a point or two here and there. How are you supposed to adjust for that without it being obvious? I dunno, maybe the pros are just magic.
But I guess the real beef of the episode is that it's an Akira episode, and we're getting a reminder that no matter how strong Hikaru is getting, Akira is still stronger... and still thinking about Hikaru. Maybe that's why it feels inherently filler-ish? We're not really that invested in Akira right now, so whatever he's doing is kinda outside the story we're actually wanting to follow.
Still, for a filler episode of sorts, it was fun enough. Especially Hikaru and the go salon dudes was fun to watch. The Akira side was... okay. It's kind of the same as with Akira and the Kaiou go club: it's important for us to remember that Akira exists, but his little adventures just aren't as exciting as Hikaru and the insei gang.
QotD1: On the surface, Hikaru nearly nailing it with so little practice seems much more impressive. But I guess the implication is that four boards wasn't even that difficult for Akira, so he could maybe have done one or two more still. But I still doubt this whole thing is nearly as normal for pros as the show makes it look!
QotD2: Only my own birthday parties and such, if those count...
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u/ClearlyQ 3d ago
But I guess the implication is that four boards wasn't even that difficult for Akira, so he could maybe have done one or two more still.
What's interesting is the anime cut out most of Akira's internal monologue, including the bit where he goes, 'will I manage against all four of them?'. This is actually a sort of training episode for Akira too, but it doesn't come across that way in the anime. I guess to make him feel even more of an intimidating rival? But to me the purpose (or one of the purposes) of these parallel scenes have always been to show that Akira isn't just sitting idly by waiting for Hikaru to catch up to him. Like Ashiwara says, he's playing like someone is coming up behind him. Hikaru is getting stronger, but his goal is also a moving target.
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u/Heda-of-Aincrad https://myanimelist.net/profile/Heda-of-Aincrad 3d ago
I can't believe I never really paid attention, but does this guy actually have a Hitler moustache of all things? In the year 2000? Who does that? Why?!
I was thinking the same thing about this guy. That is a really unfortunate design choice.
Still, for a filler episode of sorts, it was fun enough. Especially Hikaru and the go salon dudes was fun to watch. The Akira side was... okay. It's kind of the same as with Akira and the Kaiou go club: it's important for us to remember that Akira exists, but his little adventures just aren't as exciting as Hikaru and the insei gang.
I felt the same way and figured it was because I tend to get bored with the go matches, but I think your comment touched on the deeper reason - Akira's adventures not being as exciting as Hikaru's, something Akira would probably agree with. He doesn't seem happy or fulfilled lately.
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u/wloff 2d ago
He doesn't seem happy or fulfilled lately.
He seems terribly distracted by Hikaru for someone who claims not to care about him at all.
I would've liked to know how he felt about Hikaru's record in the preliminaries. Is he impressed by the fact that Hikaru passed at all, or disappointed by the way he just barely scraped through? Or a bit of both?
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u/zambonijesus 2d ago
I'm really enjoying all the Hikaru is the main character bits this rewatch that I never really thought about previously when I wasn't watching on a schedule and commenting on all the episodes. Like the degree to which Akira remains fixated on Hikaru or how Waya goes to check up on specifically Hikaru during the prelims when he's been insei with Fuku, Nase etc for longer and is portrayed as pretty friendly with them as well.
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u/Heda-of-Aincrad https://myanimelist.net/profile/Heda-of-Aincrad 2d ago
Probably a bit of both - glad this means they'll get to face each other again, but Hikaru's win/loss record would confuse Akira further, wondering if he's really as good as he thought during that first game (when it was really Sai).
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u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer 3d ago
first time baduker hikaru no go to the polls
imagine Lebron having to lose a 1v1 to a politician
Kawai just wants to play, f teaching Hikaru
maybe Toya is pretending to give purple hairs board more attention b/c thats what that guy wants
kek ah he tied them all ez clap
the polite way of telling them to fuck off
O Meiein Honinbo not even bothering to comb his hair, insane mind games already for game 2
my solutions for "yesterdays" tsumego
B33-1: E18
B33-2: O1
I33-1: L1
I33-2: M2
A33-1: A3, B3, B1
A33-2: Q5, R7, Q6
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u/MaskOfIce42 https://anilist.co/user/MaskOfIce 2d ago
First Timer, Subbed
Finally catching back up, and hey we get to see Akira again for the first time in a while! I'm not fully sure, but looking at the episodes briefly, I think the last time we saw him was episode 29, so about 5 episodes ago? And we get a wonderful parallel between him and Hikaru with both of them playing games to a draw. It's funny that while you don't know for certain Akira is doing that at first, it becomes pretty clear with the juxtaposition that that's what's happening even before we see the first draw.
Going back to Hikaru starting it, I can see why that would be good practice. It's interesting to have that sort of constant "calculating points every single move". While nowhere near as complex, it reminds me a bit of calculating victory points in something like Wingspan where especially at the end game, it's pretty easy to go "does this move give me a net positive number of points", which is pretty interesting. And Hikaru does get the hang of doing this very quickly, in one day seemingly.
Which brings me to something I remember saying earlier, that at this point in the story, I didn't think it would make sense for Hikaru to go pro yet. Well, while I stand by that then, I'm not sure I stand by it now. The parallel of both Hikaru and Akira playing 4 person games to a tie and Hikaru only being 1 point off doing it while Akira does it is a pretty clear parallel, Hikaru is only just behind Akira. It's probably not quite that close actually, but it is still pretty clearly demonstrating that Hikaru is ready to go pro. Which will lead to a very interesting conversation with his mom when that happens lol.
Question 1: Hikaru as an Insei barely not achieving the same feat. Especially since Hikaru basically started doing it that day. I find it more impressive because Hikaru's growth is astounding. This isn't even fake prodigy because Sai's playing anymore, this is just Hikaru is naturally gifted once he puts his mind to it.
Question 2: No, not that I recall. Closest I can think of is at a lunch when I was leaving my old job (good workplace environment where it was more "we're all going to lunch to say goodbye") but that's not the same by any means.
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u/wloff 3d ago
wloff's go corner #34
A while ago u/N3a2 was wondering what exactly the Nihon Ki-in is, and what does being a pro at the Ki-in actually mean for the pro. I'll do my best to tackle the topic, with the caveat that I might get some details wrong... this is all based on what general knowledge I have and have been able to look up!
The Nihon Ki-in, translating to "Japanese Go Institute", is an organization dating back to over 100 years ago. It originated in 1924 in an effort to unite the tumultuous professional go world in Japan. There's been a number of break-ups, feuds, lawsuits and competing institutes since then. Even today, there is still the separate Kansai Ki-in, which confusingly enough is a completely different thing from the Kansai Branch of the Nihon Ki-in.
Apparently, there's talks of unifying every so often, but it never seems to actually materialize because of some disagreement or another between the institutes.
In essence, the main role of the institutes is to organize professional tournaments and promote Go. The Nihon Ki-in has its own press / publishing department, and it publishes a monthly magazine "Go World".
There used to be a weekly publication as well, but it was axed due to financial problems in 2023. The Nihon Ki-in is in pretty dire straits financially, it seems.
Becoming a professional at the Nihon Ki-in, more than anything, is simply a license to compete in professional tournaments organized by the Ki-in.
The pros are, as far as I understand, not official employees or anything like that, and they don't receive any kind of a guaranteed paycheck. They are instead paid a compensation for every official game they play, and a bonus if they win, and of course even greater bonuses if they reach late stages in a tournament or win the whole thing. I've also heard it said that new pros receive some kind of a stipend to get them started, but I don't really know any details about that.
But, essentially, there's nothing forcing the pros to play if they don't want to, and there's nothing stopping them from pursuing other endeavors for extra income. In fact, unless you're one of the very elite, you need to do something beyond simply paying to support yourself.
Common side hustles for pros include private tutoring, go classes, or attending events like the one we see Akira at in today's episode. But there are other avenues as well -- our own Umezawa Yukari is affiliated with an entertainment agency, and here are other female pros as well who have done singing or other such entertainment ventures.
As for jobs like what Akira is doing in today's episode... this is partly guesswork from me, but if it's an event organized by Nihon Ki-in, I'd assume he was hired through the Ki-in as well, and paid by the Ki-in. But it could also be an arrangement where the organizers are a different entity; the Ki-in acts as an intermediary and provides the pro for the event; and the event organizers pay the pro directly. I don't really know.
But no matter who it is that pays him, I'm sure he didn't do it for free.
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u/wloff 3d ago
Tsumego of the Day
Today's theme: Endgame calculations!
I mean, it's gotta be, right? You knew it already! With an episode like this, how can we not do some endgame calculations? We all hate them, but you gotta eat your vegetables too!
- Beginner 34-1. Which is the bigger point, A or B?
Beginner 34-2. Which is the bigger point, A or B?
Intermediate 34-1. If White neglects to answer Black 1, how should Black continue and how many points can he gain?
Intermediate 34-2. How much is the hane of Black 1 worth?
Advanced 34-1. How much is the descent of Black 1 worth? Remember to calculate the result if White were to play here first!
Advanced 34-2. The position is shifted one line to the left. What has changed? How much is Black 1 worth now?
Solutions to yesterday's problems:
Beginner 33-1
- White 1 is the vital point in the 5-point nakade shape. Black dies.
- White 1 here lets Black take the vital point, giving him two eyes.
Beginner 33-2
- White 1 is the vital point. Black can't play a, so he will eventually be reduced to a 3-point nakade shape.
- White 1 here is not the vital point. Black can play 2, and White can't capture the one stone because of a snapback.
Intermediate 33-1
- White 1 is the correct move. Black can't play a because of a shortage of liberties. If Black b, White a leaves him with only one real eye.
- If White 1 here, Black 2 gets rid of the weakness and instantly makes two eyes.
Intermediate 33-2
- White 1 is a superb move. After 3, Black can't give atari to the white stones, so he dies.
- If White 1, Black 2 catches the lone white stone, so Black is absolutely alive.
Advanced 33-1
- White 1 is the vital point. Black is dead after White plays 3.
- If White plays 1, Black gets two eyes with 2 and 4.
Advanced 33-2
- White lets Black capture a stone with 2 and 4, but all the black stones are dead after White plays 7.
- If White defends the cutting point with 2, Black lives in seki with the moves to 4.
If you wish to discuss today's problems, please do so under spoiler tags, to give others the chance to solve them on their own! I'll be posting the solutions to today's problems tomorrow.
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u/No_Rex x2 3d ago
Endgame calculations. I don't think I have ever actually counted a game. 99% of the games I played are online, so the computer does it for me. And, while I have played on an actual Go board once or twice, it was not remotely close enough to need to count something.
[B 33-1]B
[B 33-2]A
Are the others even endgame calculations?
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u/zambonijesus 3d ago
Rewatcher, manga reader, subs
Time to introduce a new game gimmick, this time playing to a draw on purpose. I do enjoy how every few episodes they find a new way to have someone use go to show someone up for being an asshole. Too bad the politician is too stupid to really even understand what happened. Assholes deserve to be put in their place and not be allowed to get away with it because they have a bit of power. In fact, looking at the current state of politics in the world right now I'd say that assholes with a bit of power especially should be put in their place.
I still love Sai getting excited about Go things.
This episode does a good job of both demonstrating where Akira is at and showing Hikaru's improvement. Even the grumpy counter lady has come around to adopting Hikaru.
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u/wloff 3d ago
This episode does a good job of both demonstrating where Akira is at and showing Hikaru's improvement. Even the grumpy counter lady has come around to adopting Hikaru.
I like to think the grumpy counter lady is actually a really kind and considerate person who's just unable to speak without being way too blunt and coming off as a Grumpy McGrumpface.
I know a couple of people like that.
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u/Heda-of-Aincrad https://myanimelist.net/profile/Heda-of-Aincrad 3d ago
I think she warmed up to Hikaru when she realized he's not just an obnoxiously overconfident kid - the game is important to him, and he has the skills to back up that confidence.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 3d ago
Rewatcher
Hikaru no Go ep 32
Last day of the prelims: well, I thought we'd be watching a lot of boring go games so I let myself fall behind. I guess they are skipping some.
- oh inseis take it for free. that answers that question.
- Ah, Hikaru's mom doesn't understand him because she's never listening.
- 5 people???? This system hasn't been designed very well.
- I'm glad he didn't have to make Nase lose.
ep 33
- TBH it just sounds like 3 games to me.
- I'm a little surprised that Go salons aren't off limits to school-aged children
- Okay, LOL, Waya is trolling everybody! Good episode.
- how expensive are go salons?
- word is going to get around all the go salons about them
- fish
ep 34
- 5-0
- Can a pro afford to lose an even game on purpose, even if it's an exhibition? Do pros get paid for these little minicons?
- oh they are handicap games
Okay, when I saw the episode title, I thought this would be about a game to lose by exactly 1/2 moku as training Hikaru to learn to read territory. Close enough.
- Akira is going avoid giving that guy a win by forcing a draw while playing four boards.
- A so it's a tutoring game. He probaby is getting paid.
- head rub incoming...there it is.
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u/Heda-of-Aincrad https://myanimelist.net/profile/Heda-of-Aincrad 3d ago
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 3d ago
Some games are exciting. Some are pretty mundane.
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u/Heda-of-Aincrad https://myanimelist.net/profile/Heda-of-Aincrad 3d ago
I'm more likely to find the circumstances around the games exciting, rather than the game itself - like Sai keeping his identity hidden while playing internet go, or Hikaru making it to the pro exams.
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u/TradingStoicly 3d ago
First Timer Subbed
Woah this episode was super cool. I didn't even think intentionally drawing with one person was possible...but 4 people at the same time?! That's nuts! Is that even a thing in real life? Has that actually been done before? Lol. I loved how Akira made that boss guy look so dumb haha. Hikaru on the other hand really is a prodigy. How he was able to pick that up so quickly is insane. He's going to be a pro soon enough!
QOTD: 1. Hikaru in my opinion. He just started Go a year ago and is already doing things like that! Akira's was great too btw but Hikaru is incredible 2. I don't think so...I'd remember if I was right? Lol
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u/ClearlyQ 3d ago
partial rewatcher, manga reader, subs
Despite it all, Hikaru is my actual favorite character of the series. I say that because even though Hikaru is favorite little man, forever and ever my son, I have always been extremely fascinated by Touya Akira. Maybe this is what me and my fav have in common. Ok so to get to the heart of it then,
I honestly really, really, really love this episode. Or well, I suppose its equivalent moments in the manga. But I do totally enjoy it in animated form! I appreciate the little touches to get the flowy feeling to Touya's hair with such limited animation. It's always a joy to me whenever we get a peek into whatever it is Touya's doing, especially when it's combining go-mode Touya and off-mode Touya, because I just find that aspect (or two aspects rather) of him so compelling. Like yeah, he'll tie a four-way match and look intense while he does it, but he'll also subtly try to hide behind the organizer as he apologizes to the councilman's secretary for doing what he did, and he'll just let his friend steal his can of tea and tell him not to waste his effort on non-official matches. I love that a guy like him is Hikaru's rival. He honestly feels like a very unique type of character in the world of animanga and I'm glad the series wants us to get to know him beyond his role in the rivalry.
And I like how it's strongly implied that he could have also just thrown the game with the councilman and his lackeys had he not been keeping tabs on Hikaru and known Hikaru passed the pro exam prelims. We've known Touya to throw a game before so it wasn't out of the realm of possibility.
QotD answers:
- Touya tied his games without anybody realizing what he was up to until the end, though he was also up against what were probably on average weaker players than Hikaru was. I do feel like Hikaru still had some advantage in the fact that his opponents knew he was trying to force a tie. Plus his opponents all liked him and wanted him to do well which would subtly influence the outcomes as well. That isn't to say that what he did isn't impressive even if he slightly faltered at the end; it was a very visible level up in a way that even non-players can understand. I think it was equally impressive tbh. And shows how much closer Hikaru is to his goal now in a way that isn't just via the usual matches. It's creative! As an aside, the manga mentions that Hotta talked to a pro once who could tie five simultaneous games, or two simultaneous games if he was up against higher level insei. It's apparently harder to tie the smaller the gap in skill. There is a spoiler-filled article talking about the realism in Hikaru no Go scenarios like this one that corroborates this too.
- Does a birthday party count? lmao.
As a last aside, y'know, the more I return to Hikaru no Go, the more I feel kind of bad for Hotta-sensei that the editing department changed the title of her manga, haha. It was originally called Kokonotsu no Hoshi, named after the nine star points on the go board. But because it was renamed to Hikaru no Go, it kind of sways audience expectations into thinking the series is purely about Hikaru all the time, haha. [Very far ahead meta spoilers] I often wonder if that's why the manga felt like it was forced to end beyond its natural conclusion
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u/Heda-of-Aincrad https://myanimelist.net/profile/Heda-of-Aincrad 3d ago
Despite it all, Hikaru is my actual favorite character of the series.
He's probably my favorite too, though Sai is a close second.
Touya tied his games without anybody realizing what he was up to until the end, though he was also up against what were probably on average weaker players than Hikaru was. I do feel like Hikaru still had some advantage in the fact that his opponents knew he was trying to force a tie.
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u/wloff 2d ago
he'll just let his friend steal his can of tea
Hold up! I never realized this! The dude actually just grabs the can from Akira's hands and starts drinking! That's amazing.
For me, I think Akira has always been interesting in relation to Hikaru, and I love those moments when his eyes flash with a different intensity that's almost uncharacteristic to him, like with the whole "do you want to play now, instead of just 'someday'?" scene.
But when he's not in that intense mode obsessing over Hikaru, I find his scenes and episodes a little bit dull. He's a bit too meek and well-mannered to be that interesting.
Of course, you need these scenes to understand the contrast, and it's not like I dislike this episode or anything. But let's just say that I think there's a perfect amount of Touya Akira here. I don't mind one Akira-focused episode here and there, but I really wouldn't want much more.
[Future HikaGo]On the other hand, his sessions with Ochi are cool and interesting, but I think that's because that's when his story is again starting to intertwine with Hikaru, and it's all part of the bigger pro exam arc which I love.
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u/ClearlyQ 2d ago
Hold up! I never realized this! The dude actually just grabs the can from Akira's hands and starts drinking! That's amazing.
And to think I wasn't going to mention this at all because I thought it was too obvious to comment on, haha. I like that scene a lot as another show not tell moments of the series. Akira has one (1) friend who actually treats him like one. I'm glad the anime kept it in.
He's a bit too meek and well-mannered to be that interesting.
It's definitely a good thing it doesn't translate to the Go board! Otherwise, he wouldn't have caught Hikaru's attention and admiration. But if he wasn't that well-mannered in the first place, he wouldn't have entertained Hikaru's initial request for a game and set off this whole chain of events in motion.
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u/Heda-of-Aincrad https://myanimelist.net/profile/Heda-of-Aincrad 3d ago
First-Time Viewer no Go
Interesting dilemma for Akira, to play honestly and prove his skills or throw the game against the politician because that's what's expected of him. He ended up taking the middle ground and forcing a draw with all four, which seems to have appeased the irritable politician, but the others who aren't quite as clueless were able to recognize that this result was very much intentional and speaks to the fact that his game is on a whole different level compared to them. All's well that ends well, I guess, though Akira doesn't seem to enjoy matches like this, so the advice that his focus should be elsewhere is probably right.
It's sweet that Hikaru is still playing against the older guys at the go salon, and their idea to practice playing games to a draw in order to improve his mental calculations was a good one, which also pairs well with Akira's half of the episode.
The Hikaru segments were the ones I enjoyed most, but this episode felt a little slow for me. Good concepts but I just mentally check out when there's a lot of focus on the games.
Questions of the Day:
1) I guess Hikaru, because he practically nailed it on his first try. Akira seemed to already be experienced in this to do it so easily.
2) One of many, at awards ceremonies (academic and volunteer). But never the center of attention like Akira.
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u/wloff 2d ago
All's well that ends well, I guess, though Akira doesn't seem to enjoy matches like this, so the advice that his focus should be elsewhere is probably right.
I wonder if there's any pro who truly enjoys games and events like these. It's a day at the office, you do it for the money and don't think about it too much, I'd imagine!
I don't know about the whole spending your energy thing though. If anything, shouldn't it be a good thing if you can find a way to make even an event like this works as a sort of training regimen? Just going through the motions and playing intentionally weak moves like it's an office job would sap my energy way more.
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u/cppn02 2d ago edited 2d ago
First Timer, subbed
At this point Hikaru never paying has to be some intentional running gag. I would love if at some point Hikaru acknowledges this or maybe at some point towards the end we have him play with someone at a go salon and Hikaru offers to pay.
Even though it was telegraphed with Hikaru doing his challenge (I love how the people at the Go salon basically adopted him as one of their own) Akira pulling off the four draws and the slow reveal that this is what's happening was so freaking cool. Probably the most badass thing we've seen so far.
QotD:
What's more impressive, Akira as a 2 dan pro nailing the intentional draws at four boards, or Hikaru as an insei just barely failing at the same feat?
I have no concept of how hard it actually is for a good player to intentionally draw but from the way it was presented definitely Akira.
Have you ever been a guest of honor at some event?
Nope.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 3d ago
First-Timer no Go, subbed
Hah, that one salon liked Hikaru so much they’re letting him play for free?
Oof, Akira was told to lose on purpose just because it’s their sponsor?
Oh that’s fucked up.
Interesting. I suppose that takes a special skill to do.
Man, these guys are putting Hikaru through some wild training.
He has, yeah…
I do think that the parallel between Hikaru learning how to draw on purpose (and in multiple games at that) with Akira having to lose on purpose in four games at once really works for blending their stories together.
Ah, another character whose name I don’t know but had a “sore demo”!
Ooh, Akira actually finished his game with the one good Go player with a draw.
Oh shit, did Akira purposefully end all four games in a draw? This is even more of a parallel to Hikaru’s part of the show than I thought…
A third draw…
And there’s the fourth. Akira’s insane.