Rewatch Hikaru no Go 25th Anniversary Rewatch: Episode 35 Discussion
The Thirty-Fifth Match: There is only one winner
◄ Episode 34 | Index | [Episode 36 ►]()
Series Information:
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Purchaseable:
On Apple TV or Prime Video.
Proverb of the Day:
Don't use thickness to make territory.
Tsumego of the Day:
Today's theme: [Filler Life & Death!]()
Questions of the Day:
- Do you think the Koreans are acting too arrogant, or is it just normal to be confident when your country actually is strong enough to back that confidence up?
- Do you ever go watch sports as a supporter of the away team?
Rewatchers, remember there are first-timers present!
Be careful not to spoil anything that hasn't happened yet in the show. If you wish to discuss something in the future, make sure to hide it under spoiler tags.
Spoiler tags work like this:
[Hikaru no Go]>!Sai is cute.!<
Which becomes: [Hikaru no Go]Sai is cute.
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u/wloff 22h ago
wloff's go corner #35
I wanted to talk a bit about go in Korea, apropos of today's episode... but it turns out I know very little of it! Even though I actually had a friend who studied in Korea for a couple of years and learned the game there. I need to hit him up, I think.
What I'm trying to say is, along with me getting called to do an extra workday I wasn't expecting (boo for free time, yay for money), I'm going to have to take today to catch up on the awesome manga covers!
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u/wloff 21h ago
Tsumego of the Day
Today's theme: Filler Life & Death!
Busy busy day... it'll have to be just some random filler Life & Death today.
Luckily, you can never do too much random Life & Death!
Let's at least make it all "white to play", since Hikaru has the white stones today. We are rooting for him against Su-Young, right?
Beginner 35-1. White to play and kill. The order of moves is important.
Intermediate 5-1. White to play and live. You'll need to sacrifice some stones, but make sure to do it in a way that lets the rest of your group to live.
Advanced 35-1. White to play and live.
Solutions to yesterday's problems:
Beginner 34-1
- Black 1 at B gains Black 3 points. If it was White to play, she would play there too to prevent those points.
- Black 1 at A gains only 2 points, so it's worth one point less.
Beginner 34-2
- Black 1 at A is the correct answer. Black's upper territory is now 6 points.
- Capturing a stone with B nets Black two points -- one point of territory, one point from the capture -- but White is able to push into the top and reduce it to 3 points, so all in all, Black gains one point less like this.
Intermediate 34-1
- Black can jump to 1, then make an incursion that reduces White's corner and gains four points of territory for Black.
- If White was to block with 2, she would gain at least 7 points of solid territory with this sequence.
Thus, on the whole, we can say that Black 1 is worth at least 11 points in sente. (4 points Black makes, plus 7 points he reduces from White.)
Intermediate 34-2
- The initial Black move was gote, but later on Black can play the exchange of Black 1 - White 2 in sente, so this is the situation we'll be comparing the alternative to.
- Suppose White were to play 1. She would make three points compared to Black 1, and in addition, the exchange of White a - Black b would be her sente. Because we assume sente moves will always get played by the player who has sente, we have to discount b as a Black point.
Thus, Black 1 is worth 4 points in gote: 3 points Black reduces from White, plus 1 point he creates for himself.
Advanced 34-1
- After playing the marked stone, the monkey jump of Black 1 is his sente and privilege.
- If White were to play 1 first, she would make 7 points deprived in the previous diagram, plus the exchange of White a - Black b is her sente, and Black will eventually need to connect at c. This reduces Black's territory by 6 points compared to the previous diagram.
Thus, Black 1 is worth 13 points.
Advanced 34-2
- When the position is moved one line to the left, the outcome after Black 1 is unchanged.
- However, if it were White to play here first, after exchanging the marked stones, she can later play the clamp of White 1 in sente. Black has been deprived of 10 points, while White makes 7 points.
Thus, in this case, Black 1 is worth 17 points.
Does this all seem difficult and tedious? It does to me too! But this is the kind of calculation Hikaru and Akira had to do for every single endgame position, for every single game they were simultaneously playing, in order to figure out how to get the score to hit a dead draw in each game. Mental.
If you wish to discuss today's problems, please do so under spoiler tags, to give others the chance to solve them on their own! I'll be posting the solutions to today's problems tomorrow.
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u/ClearlyQ 21h ago
Today's Go corner picture is a very soothing one. Immediately gave me calm vibes the moment I saw it. Did you take it yourself?
The manga covers are overall very beautiful —the airy watercolor style is just plain gorgeous— but it gives me a pang of regret every time I get reminded of how the characters' noses got thinner and thinner as Obata's style evolved, lol. I always feel like he perfected his style somewhere around the time he originally worked on Hikaru no Go.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 22h ago
First-Timer no Go, subbed
First it was being scared of a guy with a beard, now Hikaru’s scared of non-Japanese people?
…he’s still rude though. Also his voice really grates my ears.
I can see why you would think that from your perspective, but man your voice actor is not doing you any favors when it comes to annoying me.
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u/wloff 21h ago
I mean, I don't disagree with how grating his squeaky voice is, but give him a break, he's 12!
I had to look up his voice actor, and looks like she's mainly been voicing pokémon and other mascot characters. Yeah, that checks out.
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u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer 22h ago
first time baduker hikaru no go to the polls
if Korean where are the circles
ah yes famously good mannered Hikaru is scolding some kid for not holding up to japanese manner standards
"i dont even know about japan" yeah we know
this towns only big enough for one precocious youngster
idk I feel like Hikaru needs a kick in the ass more than Hong
my solutions for "yesterdays" tsumego
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh idr this
B34-1: B? id like to play A though for the double eyes
B34-2: B protects E1 so 2?
I34-1: [](#disbelief) 2?
I34-2: 2?
A34-1: 5?
A34-2: gonna say 5 again because ive been making these up
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u/wloff 21h ago
this towns only big enough for one precocious youngster
Are they precocious? Seems like the kind of "1v1 me" trashtalk I'd expect out of kids in a CS lobby!
gonna say 5 again because ive been making these up
Just want to say how much I appreciate you trying, even when it feels hopeless!
(But maybe don't worry too much about all this more difficult calculation stuff. If you ask me, studying this stuff in detail is for pros who get paid to do it. We amateurs can focus on the fun parts.)
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u/MaskOfIce42 https://anilist.co/user/MaskOfIce 21h ago
First Timer, Subbed
Bit of a slow episode setting up this match as well as possibly an ongoing rival? Su-Yong seems like he could end up being a recurring rival, although obviously him returning to Korea will mean we wouldn't see him as much. But still, effective at setting him up, he kinda seems like the Korean Akira the way he was described initially, except having a bit of a crisis when he hit a wall and started falling.
And with the Korean Go salon, it is interesting how the story chose to represent the Koreans. They definitely have pride which is deserved given the country's current strength and Hikaru's notable ignorance (really, he's going to become a pro and have no idea what that even means), but it is interesting seeing Hikaru get a bit flustered initially when meeting them, seems that while he's gotten more used to playing old men, he's still got plenty that can throw him off a little more.
With the match itself, honestly while I want Hikaru to win, it feels like this is setting up a mini story where we see Su-Yong break out of his rut by taking this victory. But we'll see what happens, my track record at predicting here has not been the best lol.
Question 1: I feel like the arrogance from Su-Yong is a bit justified, he is actually an Insei in Korea and it seems like currently, Korean pros/insei are at a higher level. But that doesn't mean that all of them will automatically be better, so while they can have confidence in Su-Yong and their countrymen, their own skills are less sure.
Question 2: I've done it once or twice, but I'll be honest I don't do that much cheering anyway so I just root for who I root for keeping it more silent
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u/zambonijesus 18h ago
Rewatcher, manga reader, subs
This stretch of episodes in the Go Salons was a lot quicker than I'd remembered. I personally really like the low stakes aspect while expanding on some of the characters that we get with them.
This is the kind of match that up until this point was always actually Sai playing, so it being Hikaru playing this time is a nice growth moment for Hikaru. It's also fun to see Hikaru creating a new rivalry.
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u/TradingStoicly 17h ago
First Timer Subbed
Wow Koreans as a whole are really good at Go! I wonder if they're even better now than they were 25+ years ago. I understand that feeling of when you're at the top and then start sliding down. It really has to do with your belief system. Confidence is such a finicky thing but I hope that boy can find it...after the loss to Hikaru lol
QOTD: 1. They are a bit arrogant but it's understandable. Hikaru riled them up lol 2. I've actually never done so before for a pro sporting event. It's too dangerous in my opinion. For high school events I've done so many times. It's a lot of fun especially when it's a rivalry game
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u/ClearlyQ 22h ago
partial rewatcher, manga reader, subs
Apart from being more consistent than previous recent episodes, the art style used in this episode and the one before is also very cute. The lines are less sharp and thick, and the proportions a bit more rounded and "balanced" especially in the face. The character art has kinda been in flux so far, in both quality and style, which could be down to the quick turnaround in production but also due to adapting to Obata's evolving style during the manga as well. I really like the style they're using now. I hope the anime sticks with it for a while.
That said, not a super diverse depiction of Koreans in this episode, huh? Also, I wasn't expecting Hon Su-yong to sound like this in a million years 😅 what is that voice...
Last qualm with the episode but, one of the more compelling aspects of this match in the manga for me was the fact that Hong Su-yong barely spoke Japanese. So he and Hikaru spoke through their match (and via one of the patrons plus Su-yong's uncle translating for both of them, haha). Su-yong barely needing a translator for Hikaru to get the gist of what he's saying kinda takes away the impact for me. I get that the decision to ditch this was probably for streamlining reasons but it's still a shame they couldn't get Korean voice actors and a full Korean script to get it more accurate.
In this episode we add a little casual ignorance-based racism to Hikaru's social crimes. He never was very good at school, and now his ignorance towards everything about professional Go outside the game itself has come to rightfully earn him the ire of every patron in the Go salon. I love it when an audience surrogate trait has story consequences.
Hong Suyong's backstory always made me sad. Just 12 years old and already in a pre-career slump. Hikaru was trying to pawn off his grandpa's stuff at that age. But I suppose it's better to experience these slumps early on in life rather than later. And he gets an overseas vacation out of it too. It's nice to see that his uncle (along with his parents) cares about him. Add another explicitly supportive family member to the series' list.
QotD answers:
- Hikaru went into their turf and then acted like he did. He's lucky they didn't just kick him and his friends out.
- I don't think I ever have? TBF don't think I've ever really gone to what could be described as "home" or "away" matches because the games I watched would always be held on neutral grounds i.e. private gym/arenas hosting inter-university tournaments.
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u/wloff 21h ago
Apart from being more consistent than previous recent episodes, the art style used in this episode and the one before is also very cute.
Agreed, I think the art in this episode looks particularly great!
I'd love to know what the pipeline was like, but I've been assuming they probably have one "lead artist" (or art director, or however they named the roles) basically in charge of one episode, and they haven't been particularly strict about keeping the art styles consistent between different artists. So there's a lot of variance in style between different episodes.
I'm I'm right, whoever was in charge of drawing the characters in this episode has to be my favorite!
Last qualm with the episode but, one of the more compelling aspects of this match in the manga for me was the fact that Hong Su-yong barely spoke Japanese.
Mhm, probably just one of those things that's easy to convey on page, but can feel a bit tedious on screen, or at least that's how they felt.
There's been a few of these "streamlining" decisions. I don't remember much of the manga, I've read it once or twice but it's been 20 years... but I do remember that for instance in the very beginning Hikaru actually first tried to play against his grandpa, and when Sai started blurting out "17-4" "3-16" and so on he had no idea wtf Sai was talking about and it was a hot mess.
It made the beginning a bit more believable maybe, but I can totally see why they wanted to cut it out and get to the Akira game within the first anime episode!
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u/ClearlyQ 21h ago
It made the beginning a bit more believable maybe, but I can totally see why they wanted to cut it out and get to the Akira game within the first anime episode!
Yeah, I totally get it! Just, some changes work better than others. And additionally, as a side effect of the streamlining for ep1, well you probably already know this too, the change made it so that in the anime, Hikaru found out about the Touya Go salon because his knows his grandpa goes there sometimes. In the manga he finds out through one of the older ladies in his Go class. So, in the anime... it could have been canon that Shindou-ojiisan has met Akira before Hikaru ever did, haha!
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 12h ago
Rewatcher
Hikaru no Go ep 35
- Oh I thought they already went to that that guy's friend's go salon
- korean!
- 15
- this must be a korea arc
1
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u/wloff 22h ago
Rewatcher and your host, E-F subs
Hikaru is spending his entire summer break playing go all day every day, and when he finally meets up with some friends, they just talk about go. He's obsessed.
Silly sai is cute Sai!
I'm not sure about this whole "let's go to the other side of Tokyo to find this random place this creepy-looking guy told us about" plan. If this was an RPG, it'd be a trap for sure. But go players are nice people, it seems.
So nice that Hikaru is instantly making friends at the new neighborhood.
I think we talked about it during the Internet Go arc, but it remains funny how the anime depicts foreigners as visually different. This show taught me that "big Disney eyes" means Japanese, and "constantly shut eyes" means Korean. And "normal human shaped eyes" means Caucasian, if I remember correctly!
And Hikaru just can't stop making friends!
To be fair to him, he does make a really valid point.
Hikaru vs. Su-Yong, let's go! We haven't had a proper angry rivalry match like this since, what, Kaga back in episode 4?
One of the things I often hear people say about Hikaru no Go is how apparently it completely downplays the fact that Korea and China are significantly stronger internationally and have been for a good while. I've really understood those claims. This episode for one is really open about Korea's superiority, and definitely doesn't try to hide it in any way. Even if this one guy is being super obnoxious about it. Just shut up, dude.
I think I'm going to be saying "this might be one of my favorite episodes!" a lot... because this part of the story has a lot of my favorite episodes.
But this really might be one of my favorite episodes!
It's proper shounen stuff: sudden intense rivalry, people getting emotional and hyped up, unnecessarily cool shots and angles, flashback to a painful backstory, lines that can only exist in shounen, and...
And...
And it's over?!
No way, that was not a whole episode! It was? What the heck! They're leaving us on a cliffhanger mid-game like this?
I didn't remember that!
Grrr. Grumble, grumble. Well, I guess we'll be back with more peak next episode!
QotD1: See, I can understand that arrogance (even though I don't really like it) from Korean pros or insei like Su-Yong, because they can back it up with their skills. But this fat guy is just a random amateur. He's acting all high-and-mighty because his countrymen are strong -- not he himself. "You're not at the same level," he tells our insei trio? Dude, you're not on the level of any insei anywhere in the world, so why don't you just keep your mouth shut!
(This is the sports fan in me talking.)
QotD2: If there's a proper away following, hell yeah! Away days are great! Being alone in a sea of opposition supporters can be rough, but being part of a big section of away fans is awesome.