The door Andrew walked out of at the time was the front door which faces the entrance to the tube. His next sighting is at the Pizza Hut at Piccadilly Circus. He could have left King’s Cross gone straight into the tube station gone to the Piccadilly line platform 4 stops later he’s at Piccadilly Circus. People thinking he could have only walked are missing vital information. I don’t want to speculate on how he may have died but this is something I don’t see in anyone’s theory’s. The fact that it took the police a while to figure out he’s gone to London and with the met police not seeing him on the camera till a syp officer went and assisted them meant that by the time they could have looked at tube footage it’s was already overwritten. By 2007 most of the network was covered. Does anyone know how long the time period was from when Andrew went missing to when the police figured out he’d gone to London

Andrew’s trip to London was a desperate last resort to handle a heavy, private problem, meaning he fully intended to return home that night and leave his old life intact. This problem was likely a hidden, offline crisis that an intensely rule-abiding, quiet kid felt he couldn't share with his parents or teachers. It could have been an overwhelming mental health or identity struggle where he sought the absolute anonymity of London to process his thoughts, an unspoken fear of severe academic burnout, or even a real-world coercion or blackmail situation happening entirely face-to-face at school or in his local neighborhood.

He traveled entirely alone and kept to himself, but because he had no phone or GPS, he eventually got lost as evening approached. Facing intense panic about missing his train, he broke his rule and asked a stranger for help to get back to King's Cross. He experienced the catastrophic bad luck of approaching a highly calculated predator—a well-dressed businessman who looked completely safe and respectable, easily bypassing Andrew's stranger-danger instincts by offering him a lift to the station.

Once inside the car, Andrew was physically trapped as the man drove past the station to a private residence. Much like Jeffrey Dahmer or Dennis Nilsen, this killer was a functional member of society who operated as someone's ordinary work colleague during the day. Andrew was killed inside the house, and his remains were hidden deep within the private garden, permanently erasing all evidence and explaining why no clues or remains have ever been found. Let me know what you think of this timeline.

I strongly suspect that Andrew was immediately picked up and left the the area in a car near the station. Otherwise he'd have been seen by someone or cctv. He wasn't street smart, and possibly fell for a pedophile catfisher. Maybe a couple and was lead on by a woman. I suspect though it's more likely a man on their own or perhaps two men.

I'm torn about the pizza place sighting. Maybe he went there while waiting to meet someone?

I believe he's dead and died within a day of going missing.

I can't see how it could be anyone else. How could he vanish so quickly? Personally I don't see anything more plausible then him getting in a car very shortly after getting to kings cross.

If MI5 were to investigate this case, would they be able to solve it after all these years? How did the killer avoid being caught for 19 years? How would they catch the person who is responsible for Andy’s disappearance? Euston station is the reason why the body was never recovered and never will be. The only reason why this case is not solved yet is because they are not looking in the right places. Kings X, pizza hut, covent garden and finally Camden. Euston station railways to up north in a barrel. The day he disappeared was his last day in London and ofc final day. Wasn’t fully planned. Bad luck, bad timing and a bit of pre planning by some individual. The answer will be out there very very soon. The body will never be recovered but the answer will. A barrel would probaby slow down the decomposing and preserved the body well. Probaby will be recognisable if ever found in a barrel but i doubt it (especially in that area)

Euston to Manchester via cargo train. Barrel in back of 4v4. Took A6, then side road to A623 - Winnats rd./ buxton rd./Castleton. I can assure you that couple of people knew where the remains were until 2017 when removed/replaced around 10th year anniversary (paranoia i guess).

17th Sept (last time barrel on surface until 2017) under a cliff in trees, aprox a meter deep. Between two hills one called barker bank hill.

Castleton people know.

Bonus: CeX psp rumors are bullshit and not true.

Psp, clothes and belongings were chucked in the blue barrel with the corpse.

Dual nationality middle aged individual was involved.
Motive was sexual, ended up killing by accident. Drugs were used.
He had other plans but ended up overdosing him. Uses barrels and commutes to London from Castleton for work.

Location: A Condo between Euston station and Camden Town.
(Condo was grey or yellow) (had a court in the condo. Basketball or Tennis if i remember it right)
Overdosed around 18:40-19:00pm

Credible: Pizza hut, cover garden sightings and Camden rumors (All true) he did a big circle on the map. No public transport, all by walking. All alone until Camden.

Those two men in 2021 never charged. Had nothing to do with his disappearance.

Nothing sexual has happened alive or dead.

He was intended to go back home that night.
The only reason he declined the 50p return ticket was because he was supposed to get a lift.

People do know some things but the public still have no idea after 19 years. It’s no secret for some people.

I feel like the killer has already visited this forum (other forums aswell). Maybe he/she gave us a hint? They might have made their own comments? Maybe tried to distract us whenever we got close with our theories. I know i can’t prove this as i don’t have any proofs but let’s be real, what are the chances of him or her not visiting these forums? Just out of curiosity? Whoever did this can’t be all relaxed… Must be paranoid and probably reading all of our theories and comments. It can be me, you, or somebody else. We can’t know for sure but they are definitely among us… Unless he/she is dead or in prison. I believe still out there…

I first posted on here a while ago and received a few azzhole replies for suggesting that Andrew could have had an accidental death like a drug overdose after meeting with up people who invited him to try some. As a teen in the sketchy hood of NY where I grew up, one of my homeboys had this kind of experience except he survived.

That`s just one theory, but I`m thinking that Andrew aint killed himself because logistically it just seems too much for a kid like him to plan this out and do it in London without anybody knowing about it and at least one person being able to give the police the info. The grooming theories seem way complicated.

As time gets on, I think there`s a possibility that he did go and stay with relatives and something happened. Just saying. Just a theory. Doesn`t have to be all of the relatives he was around knew what happened, coulda been one or two. To me this would explain the complete lack of real leads. There have always been cases of missing kids, teenagers etc who had accidents that were covered up by fam or who were killed by fam members.

Sure there`s stranger killers but even among friends there have been murders that were reported as missing people cases. In an older post, I pointed out a case in Australia where a woman living in apartments supposedly left and never came back but her body was found hidden in another apartment. Not being disrespectful talking about the possibility of relatives being involved, just throwing it out there.

Do you think Andrew’s case is correlated to Alex and Madeline’s cases? I remember before Andrew Disappeared, there was something I read someone said his dad and him watch Madeline McCanns news story and Andrew and his dad were in shock when it happened. And Alex because he was also incredibly gifted as Andrew.

Hello, wanted to jump off a few posts in this thread this week, which discussed CP/SA and quite advanced/well-planned grooming theories. The thread is incredibly sad and haunting, I should say, if you haven't read it already.

I was curious though about grooming gangs/perpetrators, and the suggestion that if Andrew fell victim to such a thing, that it was likely an incredibly sophisticated operation that deliberately lured him out of Doncaster and into London.

Does anyone know how these sorts of things operated in 2007? I think I've always assumed that the kinds of people who do these things operate relatively locally, and primarily with children they're familiar with or at least geographically aware of. In the same way that most crimes are perpetrated not by strangers but people already in a victim's life. But I may be very naive to this stuff.

Is there existing evidence or previous cases in which perpetrators conducted quite elaborate grooming schemes like the one suggested in the thread? And specifically in the (relatively) modern era, and which would involve luring a target to a different city?

As a bit of a follow-up, would the grooming required for such a thing (whereby the target has to make a number of radical, unprecedented changes to their behaviour in order to get them from point A to point B) be hugely substantial? As in months and months of prior interaction? Other threads have theorised that Andrew could have met someone as little as once prior to that Friday, but that seems quite mad and unlikely, surely?

Asking all of this from a position of deep ignorance about criminality and the psychologically of it all, so was curious if anyone better-versed here had any insight?

Thanks

I think Andrew definitely got kidnapped and I think it was pre planned and I think there’s video evidence of these things and I also think like other people that the arrests have some sort of link to the crime EVEN if the men are innocent.
The police obviously suspect trafficking but it’s a actual fact that the police wouldn’t of done what they did just because someone has footage of Andrew Gosden.
They get reports of this case all the time
You expect me to belive that the police ignore a sighting for 6 weeks DURING 2007 but investigated two men for about a year just because someone said they saw videos of Andrew I don’t think so.
I think there’s information out there that MULTIPLE people know and I think there’s in this subreddit down voting and destroying people’s theories in the comments and are quite personal for people who just wanna see Andrew safe I know Reddit has its stereotypes but it can’t be this bad some of the usernames in the sub Reddit is quite questionable aswell.
I think just because something ain’t confirmed it doesn’t mean we automatically have to not say the unconfirmed obvious.
Andrew was kidnapped and it was pre planned.
Andrew was lured to London to help dissapear easier nobody and I mean nobody is ever espically a smart teenager like Andrew following anyone out of central London when u just met them on the street like cmon it’s common sense his dad didn’t even know he had that t shirt and also didn’t know he have certain things in his room.
He didn’t run away
He wasn’t gay and his family weren’t super strict catholic family like everyone tries to imply they let there kids be emos for goodness sake his dad took him and his sister to rock concert that isn’t quite strict catholic to me.
I think Kevin was very very good towards Andrew and very accepting Andrew was also mature and when I say mature I believe Kevin comment that Andrew didn’t have street smarts was abit of smoke screen not purposeful ofc but I think people try run with that a lot.
Go do extensive research go scroll down to 2007 and watch all the interview and read all his blogs Andrew like older company
Andrew was not a normal teenager I saw one guy comment about him reading nietzche was strange and a bunch of people in the replies said that was normal for teenagers like what 😭 reading nietzche and collecting gemstones and completing secondary school mathematics before year 11 was what the regular teenage kid was doing?
Like please don’t underestimate the kid I understand we’re human but when we see someone in a place of lack or a casualty are Brains automatically think they can’t do harm or can’t do anything sometimesz
Andrew was capable enough to understand how to get to London was he abit naive ofc he was just like every teenager but he was firstly brave enough and had enough courage to do it but also proves that Andrew had a little rebel in him that wasn’t really seen from the family because Andrew was mature and was intelligent as we with intelligent kids in our class they aren’t usually getting in trouble a lot but ik a lot of smart kids in my school who used to do rebellious stuff just his it very very well like the fact Kevin didn’t know Andrew had that top and the pins Andrew was being groomed secretly by who idk but even the vicar said in a blog in 2008 that Andrew was a critical thinker he was a smart Intelligent boy
I don’t think he would have killed himself truthfully.
He had plans for life like his changing his hair going to Cambridge what not
He had a family that loved him that cherished him so so so much.
Not saying it’s impossible that he did that but I think it’s very unlikely Andrew wasn’t found by now it’s and I don’t think he jumped in the river Thames at night time that takes alot of balls man it’s spooky at night time not saying he ain’t capable I’m saying it’s very unlikely
And he definitely didn’t do it in day time because it wa s Friday night in 2007 everyone was gonna be out if someone jumped in the river Thames someone would definitely notice.

The only reason the perpetrator was not caught is because they planned it well London was the smoke screen and everything went his/there way from the school misdialing,the police being incompetent and the cctv
It had to be someone he trusted to take him out of central
Idk how they communicated but all ik is he was communicating with someone and Ik I can feel it.
When I see pictures of him and his swag and what we can see from his pictures he seems like a genuine cool kid from a beautiful hard working family who weren’t strict and didn’t really have to be.
I think Andrew was lured to London under the intention to trafick or doing something terrible to him.
I would also lean towards it being a group project and not a one man thing maybe a man as a perpetrator but there being multiple abusers throught different links.
There was all sorts of dirty rings in London at the time and still are.

Do you think he prearranged to meet somebody or fell victim to foul play by an opportunistic random?

Theres a new missing children poster in reading station that I seen today of Andrew (it’s big) near where all the food outlets and shops are within the station. I have actually never seen Andrew on any missing children poster, documentary or anything so it was nice to see his face out there.

I was only 7 at the time he went missing so Im not aware of what the news coverage was like then, but I’ve read that it wasn’t a an overly covered case. is this correct? a young vulnerable boy quite literally vanishing when stepping off a train just seems like something that should’ve been nationally covered. I wonder if it would’ve made a difference. I guess we’ll never know.

just remembered this, i’ve been saying this for a while now.

even though the two men linked to andrew’s case were NOT charged with human trafficking & kidnapping, I still find it crazy that the police had evidence that the older man had indecent images of kids on his devices and he wasn’t charged with that either??

also, they were investigating these two for over a year. surely that means something.

like i understand you may not be guilty for human trafficking or kidnapping but to be allowed off the hook for literal CP is indescribable.

I’m not saying they have a smoking gun but do you think it’s possible that if Andrew was killed, LE has an idea of who it is or a prime suspect but simply don’t have enough evidence to prove it? Even if he wasn’t killed, do you think they a better theory of what happened than the public/family?

​

I would like to offer my theory of what may have happened to Andrew. The theory includes possible leads of inquiry that I don't have the ability to follow, due to not being based in the UK.

This hypothesis resolves the central paradox of the Andrew Gosden disappearance: how a cautious, home-loving 14-year-old boy with zero internet footprint was lured to London while fully expecting to sleep in his own bed that same night.

​Rather than being groomed online or running away to start a new life, Andrew responded to a print classified advert in a UK gaming magazine offering a second-hand Xbox 360 bundle (for ~£160 cash plus a PSP trade-in) right on the eve of the September 2007 Halo 3 launch. Using a public payphone during his uncharacteristic walks home from school that week, Andrew arranged to meet the seller in London on Friday, September 14. To overcome Andrew's hesitation about carrying a heavy, bulky console box back on the train and getting home before his parents finished work, the perpetrator offered to drive Andrew and the console back up the A1 to Doncaster that afternoon—a ruse that explained why Andrew refused a 50p return ticket and willingly stepped into a private residence or vehicle after eating lunch on Oxford Street.

​The Reconstructed Timeline:

The Bait (Print Gaming Magazine)

Late Aug – Early Sept 2007

Microsoft launches the Xbox 360 Elite in the UK (Aug 24) and drops the price of the standard Xbox 360, while Halo 3 (releasing Sept 26) dominates the gaming press. Andrew—who plays an outdated original Xbox in his family's cellar and famously preferred an Xbox over having a mobile phone—spots a small classified/marketplace ad in a UK gaming magazine offering a cheap Xbox 360 bundle with a PSP part-exchange option.

The Two Four-Mile Walks Home (Payphone Contact)

Mon Sept 10 – Thu Sept 13

Because Andrew does not own a mobile phone and cannot call the seller from the family landline without his parents overhearing, he ditches the school bus twice that week to walk four miles home. During those untracked 90-minute windows, he uses a coin-operated BT street payphone to call the London number in the magazine and finalise Friday's swap.

Staging the Cover Story & Withdrawals

Fri Sept 14, 8:05 AM – 9:00 AM

Andrew waits in the local park until his family leaves for work and school, returns home, and changes into his normal casual clothes (Slipknot T-shirt and jeans). He puts his school uniform in the washing machine and hangs his blazer on his chair—staging his room so that when the driver drops him back in Doncaster around 4:30 PM, it will appear he attended school as normal. He takes his PSP-1000 (for the trade-in) and withdraws £200 from the ATM, leaving £100 birthday cash and his PSP charger behind because he doesn't need them.

The One-Way Ticket at Doncaster Station

Fri Sept 14, 9:35 AM

Andrew buys a single ticket to London for £31.40, turning down a return ticket for just 50p more because he already has a confirmed car lift back up the A1(M) that afternoon with his bulky Xbox 360 box. Witnesses observe him calmly playing his PSP on the train.

King's Cross Arrival & Oxford Street Pizza Hut

Fri Sept 14, 11:25 AM – 12:30 PM

To avoid mainline station CCTV, the perpetrator has instructed Andrew to meet him in the early afternoon away from King's Cross. With an hour to kill, Andrew heads to a familiar spot from family trips—the Pizza Hut at 523 Oxford Street—and eats his favourite ham and pineapple pizza alone.

The Rendezvous & Disappearance

Fri Sept 14, ~1:00 PM – 2:00 PM

Walking out of Pizza Hut with roughly £160 cash and his PSP, Andrew travels to the pre-arranged pickup point or residential flat to inspect the Xbox 360 and get his lift north. Once inside the private property or vehicle, he is assaulted and murdered. The perpetrator disposes of Andrew's remains and destroys his PSP—explaining why Sony confirmed the console never connected to the internet or logged a serial number ever again.

Cold-Case Action Plan: The Archival Audit

​Unlike 2007 CCTV (which was overwritten in weeks) or unlogged chatrooms, every print gaming magazine on UK shelves in August and September 2007 still exists in the British Library legal deposit archives and retro gaming digital preservation collections.

​An investigator or researcher testing this hypothesis today would only need to audit the back-page Marketplace / Reader Classifieds / Trade-In sections of 15 specific magazine issues (cover-dated August, September, and October 2007):

​Official Xbox 360 Magazine UK (OXM): Issues 23, 24, and 25 (Future Publishing)

​GamesMaster: Issues 188, 189, and 190 (Future Publishing)

​PSM3 (PlayStation 3 / PSP Magazine): Issues 91, 92, and 93 (Future Publishing)

​GamesTM: Issues 60, 61, and 62 (Imagine Publishing)

​Retro Gamer: Issues 40, 41, and 42 (Imagine Publishing – carried direct reader buy/sell/swap phone numbers)

​X360 (Un-official Xbox 360 Magazine): Issues 22, 23, and 24 (Imagine Publishing)

​What to Look For in Those Pages:

​Lineage or Box Ads: Any private seller, collector, or small independent "grey-market" trader listing Xbox 360 consoles/bundles or advertising "Cash/Part-Exchange for PSP & Consoles" with a London (0207 / 0208), A1 Corridor, or UK Mobile (07xxx) telephone number.

​Cross-Referencing: Running the shortlist of phone numbers printed in those back pages against 2007 telecom subscriber records, electoral rolls, and police intelligence databases (specifically cross-checking for individuals with histories of offences against adolescent boys or links between London and South Yorkshire).

​Doncaster Payphone Route: Mapping the exact pedestrian route between McAuley Catholic High School (Cantley) and Littlemoor Lane (Balby) as it existed in September 2007 to identify the BT public payphone kiosks Andrew passed during his 80-minute walk home.

Thank you for reading.

This is, of course, just a theory and I have had many over the years, but this one doesn't seem to have come up.

So, Andrew heads to London for the day, and his intention is to do exactly as his Dad predicted. He is going to rock up at one of the houses of the people he knows in London, and stay over there. Emergency over, problem solved, parents just happy to know he is safe and well.

So this goes to plan initially, he does whatever he wanted to do and turns up at this persons house, family member etc. And then the theory goes in one of two directions.

Either something happens when they enter the home of this person, or, the person isn't in and Andrew is stuck outside and a neighbour of this trusted person invites them in out of the cold, and then something happens.

So, if I was the police I would be looking at the people Andrew knew in London, whether they had any lodgers etc at the time, and also their neighbours at the time and whether those neighbours have since have been convicted of anything since then.

The likelihood is still, even now, that if Andrew was murdered, he was murdered by someone he knew, it's why the police were so focussed on the Dad. Maybe the Police were right, but just looking in the wrong place.

Hey guys, I need some help finding a post. I’m almost positive I saw a photo on here of Andrew’s blazer sitting on a chair. I didn't save it and now it's completely vanished.
I’m at the point where I'm wondering if I’m tripping, but I'm still pretty damn sure I saw it. Does anyone have a link to the thread or the image?

A few days ago I made a post about my theory that Andrew may have been groomed during his walks home from school. I’ve been thinking about it since, and I’m honestly starting to find another explanation more plausible: that Andrew may have taken his own life.

I don’t say that lightly, and I know suicide is uncomfortable to discuss in this case. I also don’t think we can ever know for certain unless new evidence emerges. But the more I look at the timeline, the more the suicide theory seems to fit some of the strange details of that day.

First, I’m increasingly doubtful about the grooming theory I posted before. Andrew reportedly walked the roughly 4-mile route home from school twice in the days before he disappeared, a journey of around 1h20–1h30. That creates a very large window in which, if he really was meeting someone or being groomed, you would expect at least some possibility of a witness eventually noticing something. And if a groomer already had contact with him, it seems strange that they would need such an elaborate arrangement for Andrew to travel alone to London rather than simply offering him a lift there.

There is also this post I came across that lays out a lot of the points I’m talking about. The “quieter phase” at home, his withdrawal from church and Scouts, spending more time alone, walking home instead of taking the bus, and then suddenly withdrawing his savings and buying a one-way ticket are not proof of depression or suicidal thoughts, but they are certainly compatible with someone struggling internally.

What really stands out to me is the sequence of events on September 14th.

Andrew left home dressed for school, then returned once he knew everyone else had left. He put his school uniform in the washing machine, left his blazer behind, changed into his favourite clothes, took his PSP and his bag, withdrew £200 and went to the station. He then insisted on a one-way ticket even though a return was only 50p more (some people understandably argue that this means nothing on its own, but taken together with everything else, I find it difficult to ignore). He took no change of clothes, no PSP charger, no passport, and apparently didn’t take the extra cash he had saved at home either.

To me, that looks less like someone planning to start a new life and more like someone planning one particular day.

And that is where London itself becomes important. Andrew loved London. His parents had actually offered him the opportunity to go there alone during the summer holidays, and he declined. Yet only weeks later, on a school day, he secretly travelled there anyway. To me, that makes the trip feel very deliberate.

I can imagine that he may have wanted to spend what he believed would be his final day in his favourite city, doing the things he enjoyed and seeing the places he loved, before eventually going somewhere to take his own life.

There was also the suicide of a teacher at his school shortly before Andrew disappeared. That, combined with the return to school after the summer holidays, makes me wonder whether something may have been triggered in a teenager who was already struggling internally.

Andrew was also very much part of the alternative/emo music world. Obviously being an emo kid does not make someone suicidal, and I don’t think that should be read that way. But the culture he identified with often dealt heavily in melancholy, alienation and darker emotional themes, so I think it’s at least worth mentioning as part of the broader context.

Anyway, I don’t think a body necessarily being found quickly rules the suicide theory out. A person entering a tidal river can be carried, become trapped underwater, and remain undiscovered for a long time. Andrew’s family even arranged a sonar search of the Thames years later, but he was not found.

The one thing I still can’t quite reconcile with this theory is his bag. It was a distinctive bag covered in music patches, and he was carrying it when he left King’s Cross. I find it hard to imagine him simply abandoning it somewhere on a busy bridge without anyone noticing.

Maybe someone stole it. Maybe that could somehow be connected to this post. Obviously, there is absolutely no way to verify that claim from the graffiti alone, so I’m not presenting it as evidence that the PSP really belonged to Andrew. But it is another strange detail that makes me wonder what ultimately happened to his belongings.

Maybe Andrew found some way to dispose of the bag beforehand, or maybe he entered the river with it. I honestly don’t know.

Btw, I’m not saying this is what happened. I’m saying that, after putting aside the assumption that Andrew must have been kidnapped or groomed, I increasingly think suicide deserves to be taken seriously as a possibility.

I’d be interested to hear how other people see this, especially the bag and what Andrew may have done between leaving King’s Cross and the end of the day.

Just wondering if anyone in here knew Andrew personally whether it be going to school neighbor etc… any stories about him you could share. What was he like when hanging out with him.

My understanding is he hid in a nearby park, once the rest of the family left he then went home to get changed etc.

Could he see his house from the park, i.e could he see his family coming and going without them seeing him?

hey everyone! i’ve been following this case for ages, and i recently watched a video to remind myself of the case as i hadn’t really heard anyone discuss this before.

one question i’d had in mind is did anyone from the summer camp that andrew went to (in 2006) disappear or not turn up to their said school on the day of Andrew’s disappearance?

and if so, have there been any reports on this?

if not, share your thoughts with me!! what do you think?

Did Andrew receive a letter by post from somebody connected to the Gifted Talented program (or somebody he thought) or some "organization" offering a unique one off educational opportunity or to meet somebody that had to be on that Friday he simply could not refuse and he kept it on the hush because he knew his parents would have many questions about it as to why it's in London and on a school day and he was offered a lift back afterwards and thought he would just this explain to his family afterwards?

Was It an "opportunity" that he felt he just could not refuse and because this letter came from somebody he thought was educational person or somebody from that gifted program or connected to it and because it was professionally written that he absolutely trusted it.. it was a well organized well thought out plan by his groomer(s)..

It would explain a way he possibly could have been groomed without it leaving any digital trace whatsoever and why he chose to take such a leap of faith that day...

I recently discovered the story of Smartschoolboy9, a pedophile who pretended to be a student, a child, dressing up as a schoolboy with a uniform. He is now a 60-year-old man who was active for many years in Doncaster, but also in London. I was wondering if maybe he could have something to do with Andrew, mostly because, besides the fact that he was actually hanging around Doncaster and was known in the area, he was also used to capturing kids, let's say, getting their attention on the web to then meet up with them. Obviously, I imagine the police have already investigated that area as well, but I'm just sharing my thought with you.