r/Assyria • u/Beneficial-Role1450 • 19d ago
Discussion Is there someone in this community who likes Saddam Hussein?
I as an Assyrian don’t like Saddam Hussein. I thought his policies against Assyrians were pure evil. I mean for fucks sake he destroyed Assyrian villages during the Anfal campaign and forced arabization policies. I also thought the war he started in Iran was fucking stupid and that he was an American puppet for that decade. But if there is anyone who likes Saddam Hussein in this community I have one simple question and that is why? are you crazy?
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u/Non-white-swiftie Assyrian 19d ago
The ones who like Saddam Hussein usually have one of two arguments, under Saddam Hussein "it was more peaceful and stable" or, under Saddam Hussein it was better for minorities like Assyrian and Christians in general compared to right now. Both statements are over-simplifications and miss the bigger picture
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 19d ago
Sure it was more peaceful but that doesn’t mean it was peaceful. The Qasim era (the guy Saddam overthrew btw) was much more better for Assyrians and other minorities and it still wasn’t even that good.
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u/Non-white-swiftie Assyrian 19d ago
You misinterpreted my comment- I was not agreeing with these statements, only sharing what I have heard. In general Saddam Hussein was a bad idea for all of Iraq even when we consider what was to follow was also a shit show
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u/mmeIsniffglue 19d ago
Don’t forget that under his rule, women could wear mini skirts ☝️
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u/randy4thquarter 17d ago
Oh wow big whoop. Christians softened up to a point where you make us look embarrassing. We are not part of a pagan church. If you see women in your family wearing a mini skirt you should reprimand them. We ought to learn things from the Muslims that they do right.
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u/im_alliterate Nineveh Plains 17d ago
What do you care what women wear? Worry about yourself
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u/randy4thquarter 17d ago
So if your mom/sister walked out with a tank top and mini skirt you would be okay with it?
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u/im_alliterate Nineveh Plains 17d ago
Yea. You weirdo. Ever seen a woman in a bikini before?
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u/randy4thquarter 17d ago
Yea I’m a weirdo… Mother Mary was wearing bikinis too btw in Jerusalem. It’s a good model to stand by. lol it actually starts to make sense y our ppl have been massacred. We have 0 backbone and identity. If you aren’t willing to protect your own women’s modesty then how can you possibly protect and govern lands. We run into different countries, change our names, assimilate into their culture and create a weird mix. Lost our land for a faith that we don’t even stand by. We have become so accustomed to western societies that the Jews propped up that we forgot how strict the moral code of our book is. Ppl think only Muslims don’t allow women to be half naked haha. You have 0 respect for women and vice versa for you.
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u/im_alliterate Nineveh Plains 17d ago
You sound like a muslim, you should convert.
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u/randy4thquarter 17d ago
I’m not a Muslim. I’m a Christian that actually follows the teachings of our book. Don’t forget where our religion originates. There will of course be similarities with Judaism and Islam. Idk if your Orthodox or Catholic but either are not pagan churches and stand by these teachings
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u/im_alliterate Nineveh Plains 17d ago
Where does scripture say how high above the knees a skirt should be? Religious fanatics are always the same. So boring.
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u/Able-Comment-1983 11d ago
So if your dad/brother walked around the neighborhood with a shirt showing their belly button and breast cleavage (a zone meant to be erogenous🕵🏻) while wearing a decent amount of v-shaped fabric to cover their penis and butt would you be okay with it?
You believed mothers and daughters are owned by boys and have no inherent bodily autonomy.
I’ve got news for you: girls can also sexually rape boys at any age beyond infancy.
https://www.rferl.org/amp/the_curious_incident_of_the_sex_slave_in_the_hair_salon/24269330.html
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u/mmeIsniffglue 17d ago
Weirdo alert 🚨
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17d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Assyria-ModTeam 17d ago
Your post/comment violated rule 3 - requiring civility (no trolling, insults, or derogatory language). This or continued violations may result in a ban. This moderation protects the sub from punishment by Reddit admins.
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u/Far-Pineapple-2409 15d ago edited 15d ago
Yeah I agree. But I think a lot of Iraqis whether they are Assyrian or not seem to think sadam wasn’t that bad because the country was stable. Unfortunately the things that he “was better at” were only things that a stable country provides. I think most people just miss the stability not him. He was a horrible man. What he did to the Kurds was disgusting. And even though he protected Christian’s he also denied our culture and forced us to take on Arab names and began a campaign of Arabization. He was the one who banned our language being taught. The only reason he liked Assyrians Yezidis Shabak etc is because he could do whatever he wanted to us without repercussions.
My dads aunty worked as a chef against her will for him, she felt like she couldn’t refuse or he would do something evil, his son then blinded her with acid and killed her husband. Just for fun.
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u/Old-Average-6118 Yazidi 19d ago edited 19d ago
Not just oversimplifications but completely untrue as well. Even ISIS wasn't as destructive towards religious minorites as Saddam was. Hundreds of Christian and Yazidi villages were destroyed by Saddam. Not even ISIS can say they eradicated a single village they killed and drove out many people but even then the villages stand today unlike with what Saddam did.
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 19d ago
Not just that but everything ISIS did is also Saddam’s fault because many ISIS commanders were former Ba’athists.
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u/randy4thquarter 17d ago
Blud wtf r u saying isis would’ve done a complete massacre of our ppl. Sadam just wanted all groups to unite under Iraq
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u/Old-Average-6118 Yazidi 17d ago
Yes ISIS would've done a complete genocide if they could but they couldn't. ISIS couldn't even come close to the amount of destruction Saddam did to Assyrians, Saddam destroyed 200 Assyrian villages, ISIS couldn't destroy 1.
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u/randy4thquarter 17d ago
So why would Sadam destroy villages of those who r loyal to his rule? Bro even Kurds try to paint this image that he was racist when that wasn’t true. Erdogan for example you can say is an actual racist since he doesn’t allow them to speak their language. Sadam didn’t care what shape or color you came in as long as you were loyal to Iraq and Baathist party. He didn’t hate Kurds because of their language or culture. It’s because they consistently incite rebellion no matter which nation they reside in. Barzanis history is prime example
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 11d ago
Saddam wanted everyone to become Arab and not be proud of their ancient ancestors from Assyria.
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u/flockaman2k 19d ago
I can’t imagine much of an argument for liking Saddam. There is something to be said about the “structure” that was held under him vs. the power vacuum that the U.S. caused by eliminating him. Many argue this is what ultimately caused to ISIS growing and having such a dominance in their time. I’m not sure who was more destructive to Assyrians, ISIS or Saddam.
But I can see how someone living in Iraq at the time might have said they preferred Saddam to what happened immediately in his absence. Lesser of 2 evils so to speak.
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 19d ago
Like I told another commenter everything ISIS did is also Saddam’s responsibility since many ISIS members were formerly Ba’athists. And the fact Iraq is worse now than before doesn’t justify Saddam’s brutality. I get Iraq is an Iranian puppet but to be honest I’d rather Iraq is a puppet state than is isolated. And by the way Saddam was an American puppet before invading Kuwait. Both Saddam and ISIS are shit.
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u/GamingMaximGG Assyrian 19d ago
He killed many of my family for being against him and sent my dad to prison. Not a cool guy 👎
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u/randy4thquarter 17d ago
Were your family members apart of a different party?
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u/GamingMaximGG Assyrian 17d ago
Kind of, they were just oppositions and against dictatorships
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u/randy4thquarter 17d ago
God rest your family but that kinda goes with my point of Sadam wasn’t a racist guy that the ppl r trying to portray him to be
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u/GamingMaximGG Assyrian 17d ago
He was an Arab nationalist, trying to Arabize everyone and into making Iraq 1 Arab nation and ignoring all the minorities. That is worse than racism, it’s racism 10x
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u/randy4thquarter 17d ago
haha bro this such BS. Fake jewish propaganda you fell for. When Sadam was sentenced to death in court him and his brother literally said long live all the ethnicities of Iraq and the ummah. We are not part of the ummah but one of the many ethnicities. I'm pretty sure his national anthem acknowledges that Iraq is the land of Assyria natively. Which traces back to Babylon (Chaldeans, Assyrians, etc.) He didn't kill people for their race. My family grew up in Baghdad and Basra and spoke our langauge to each other. He allowed Kurds to speak their language in the north while Erdogan literally puts people in jail for speaking kurdish if not worse. Like I said he killed people who opposed his government.
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u/DodgersChick69 Assyrian 19d ago
No. The ones who like Saddam Hussein were Baathists, which weren’t common within our community.
We were persecuted, oppressed, and killed under Saddam. The only reason Assyrians and other communities in Iraq bring him up today is because there was more relative stability, especially economically. Today, there is no stability and Assyrians are on the brink of extinction. We’re bleeding out at much more rapid rates from our homeland, and everyday more of our lands are being grabbed. There is also a lot of extremism being nurtured in the region—both in the KRI & the Central Government. Extremist groups did not thrive under Saddam. It’s not that Assyrians like him, it’s just in comparison, we went from bad to worse.
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 19d ago
Really? Because I’ve seen Assyrians on TikTok who like him and I’m just wondering one thing, are these people stupid or dumb?
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u/DodgersChick69 Assyrian 19d ago
There are also a lot of non-Assyrians pretending to be Assyrian online, mostly Kurdish nationalists who post pro-Kurdish nationalist content, and even post content against Assyrians or that Assyrians are pro-KRG. They also do this with Chaldean separatist accounts.
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 19d ago
Nah I am talking about the nationalist editors like for example @Assyrianlowkback1
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u/randy4thquarter 17d ago
Under Sadam there is no genocide on our ppl. Which is I respect him and his party over anyone else’s
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u/Old-Average-6118 Yazidi 17d ago
Assyrians were ethically cleansed under Saddam, Assyrians lost most of their lands and villages and thousands were killed. You're respecting a murderer of your people.
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u/Fearless_Good_5283 19d ago
Saddam fit the role of a despotic warlord clinging to the villainous aspects of Babylonian legacy. I think he is equally to blame for the War in Iraq as he made himself out to be someone who does not fit into the global community. He was much how the late Ayatollah was acting, when they say something threatening to other nations on a daily basis, and occasionally carry out an actual attack. In an era of United Nations we really cannot have people acting like that on a global stage.
This region of the world is actually ridiculous to be from. Iran is not even historically Islamic as they were Persian. However, the Shah's son lately in the news is not really that impactful, and that seems to be a lost cause to return to. Turkey is basically the result of the Byzantine Empire not being able to push back the Seljuk Turks. Some of that is from Western forces turning against the Eastern Roman Empire in the fourth crusade they attacked Constantinople instead of heading towards Jerusalem. This region is the result of people running their empire in the Middle Ages, when most people were illiterate. Looking at the map, why is there a state of Turkmenistan and also Turkey, yet nothing for the native people of the Middle East? These people came from far away in the Mongolian mountain ranges, and Eurasian steppes, invaders who were always hostile. They committed systematic genocide and purposefully targeted scholars, professors, leaders.
Saddam was kind of just another crazy warlord type leader in history. I do not feel we would ever be safe at the mercy of a benevolent or mad tempered dictator. Before him it was a British Mandate Iraq with King Feisal; I do not see why that could have worked for a while longer. Some of our Assyrian artifacts are safer in Europe's museums in the aftermath of ISIS destroying UNESCO World Heritage sites. Saddam even laughed at his own death sentence which seemed like he was out of touch with reality. Maybe there would have been another way to remove him from power in a more civilized world, like international criminal court. Though really who like that though is going to show up to an international court, imagine Putin, Netanyahu, or Kim-Jung Un today would show up to an international court session and voluntary be arrested. They are basically all guilty of war crimes, and likely so is the Bush family, and probable they will say that about Trump in the future for bombing school girls in Iran. There is nothing really great about these old warlord like politicians, and anyone who says we were better off with them such as Trump, is likely to commit similar mistakes.
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u/Training_Look_1400 Kurdish 19d ago
Sometimes to ragebait Kurds online lol
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 19d ago
Just use Agha Petros bro. Using Saddam against Kurds on social media is in my words the equivalent of using Turks against Kurds. Both Saddam and the Turks murdered us. If a Kurd was using Saddam against Assyrians I get it but no Kurd is doing that 😭
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u/Training_Look_1400 Kurdish 19d ago
Nah bro when it comes to online trolling and ragebait all logic goes out the window i know turks who’ve mentioned saddam to ragebait me even though saddam oppressed turkmens
There is no sense of thinking in ethno trolling lmao
I see overly islamist kurds use isis to upset yazidis online even though kurds literally died in the frontlines fighting them and they beheaded and tortured peshmerga’s
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 19d ago
I meant Assyrians using Turkey and Baathists. It’s the same thing because both of them killed us.
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u/Training_Look_1400 Kurdish 19d ago
Yah as i said its online trolling theres no sense in it
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 19d ago
Though I only see this on TikTok and not on YT shorts or something else. And TikTok is crazy
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u/Training_Look_1400 Kurdish 19d ago
I didnt use the app for 2 years exactly for this reason i get a headache from it honestly
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 19d ago
Correction: I saw a Hawpa fan on YT shorts hating on this Iraqi guy and the Hawpa fan previously mocked the Assyrian genocide while using the fake number “750k” when it was 250k. I honestly hate when Kurdish people mock the Sayfo.
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u/Training_Look_1400 Kurdish 19d ago
Hawpa are loser cornballs dont take anything they say to heart bro
Theres also a lot of arab trolls mocking anfal and arabization
After awhile u get used to it and it doesnt bother you
Your people and mine went through a lot worse than just hateful comments on tiktok🫠
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u/randy4thquarter 17d ago
Wdym by falsely accused? I hear a lot of them either believe in other agendas or even aide. I heard stories of ppl whose families would oppose Sadam in secret and aide causes
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u/lifetimeoflaughter Assyrian 16d ago
My parents tell me he protected Christians and had a lot of Christian staff working for him because he trusted them more than Muslims. I don’t think they like him but more so that life under him was nice and stable.
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 16d ago
Life under him wasn’t stable. Life under him was only better than after the US came. Minorities like Assyrians, Yazidis, Turkmens, Kurds, and even others will tell you the only reason they talk good about Saddam Hussein a lot or bad about America a lot is because Iraq during him is better than Iraq now. When America came the Iraqi government started being puppeted by Iran and ISIS started invading following an insurgency and the US withdrawal.
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u/randy4thquarter 18d ago
Of course I love Sadam. He was a man amongst boys and brought justice to the region. You guys claim he wanted to Arabize all of us when that is just far from the truth. As long as you are loyal to the government and serve Iraq it didn’t matter what you were.
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 17d ago
Fym he destroyed our villages and only Arabized people along with actual Arabs can join the Ba’ath party. The “Saddam respected religion” excuse doesn’t work when minorities had to Arabized themselves. Also if he truly respected religion why did he kill Shia Muslims?
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u/randy4thquarter 17d ago edited 17d ago
Tariq Aziz was one of his most trusted men and he isn’t Arab. So many of his cooks and ppl who worked in his home were Assyrian. If he destroyed any of our villages it was to target kurds. Don’t fall for Jewish propaganda. If the Jews and Iranians had to team up against you then he was doing something right. Our ppl assimilated into his country and contributed. I don’t see the point of him destroying our villages. Shias are a lot more welcoming than Sunnis
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u/Old-Average-6118 Yazidi 17d ago
It's ok to destroy Assyrian villages "to fight Kurds" how does that make any sense? Over 200 Assyrian villages were destroyed and Assyrians lost a lot of land because of the Baath party and Saddam.
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u/randy4thquarter 16d ago
I mean I don’t know the full context of what you were talking about. My main point is if Sadam did things it was to people who opposed him. Not out of sheer racism. Like even as a Yazidi I have heard Sadam say good things about your people. In the national anthem literally says “Babylon is inherent to us… the land of Assyria” if he truly wanted to Arabize all of us then y would he his own anthem affirm that Assyrians are indigenous to the land?
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u/Old-Average-6118 Yazidi 16d ago
The excuse was "modernization" they removed Assyrians and Yazidis from their villages and forced them to live in cities and stole the land. The Iraqi government said it was primitive to live in villages but only villages of minorities were destroyed and the villages were given to Arab nomads. My mother's village was destroyed and replaced by Arabs who lived there until the Peshmerga came and kicked them out.
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 17d ago
By the way Iran also attacked the Kurds during their rebellions so why hate Iran with your logic? If anything Assyrians should love Iran or at least the Pahlavists because early Shah (Reza Shah) helped us fight Simko Shikak.
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u/randy4thquarter 17d ago
Yea I agree long live the shah and god bless Sadam. Our ppl are dwindling over time. We lost our land because we chose to keep our faith in Christ over any land. It is what it is. Look at the Kurds these guys constantly incite rebellions in 4 nations, had one of the greatest Muslim generals and still have no country. The Arab/muslim influence in that region is too strong now. We need an Arab leader who respects our ppl like Ali Zaidi who invites us to go back yet our ppl won’t such life is much easier and comfortable in USA etc. (to be fair I don’t blame them). War can break out at any point and as Christian’s we wouldn’t be safe in a Muslim nation. We will see what Zaidi can accomplish but the Shias love and respect us. They hold our flag and respect it
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 17d ago
Al Zaidi is tricking us hate to break it to you. They want the Assyrians to come back so Iraq gets their money and then the people end up falling off or dying.
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u/randy4thquarter 17d ago
Zaidi is a business man first so he understands what type of impact our people can have economically. I don’t understand what he gets out of tricking us for a small time economic gain? He is already making economic deals with Germany. They are much more useful than us who own gas stations and grocery stores. I think he is looking for people who are willing to relocate and build long standing businesses from the ground up. If a leader after him in 50+ years betrays us then that’s another thing I guess. Realistically none of us are going back anyways
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 17d ago
I changed my mind like a couple of minutes ago I support him now.
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u/randy4thquarter 17d ago
I respect someone who is willing to challenge their own beliefs and change ideologies if they see it. No shame in that. If I may ask what changed your mind on Ali Zaidi
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 17d ago
I respect how he put the corrupt politicians in jail and the fact they found like 20,000,000 Iraqi dinars in their houses. Also limiting Iranian influence
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 17d ago
And Tariq Aziz was a traitor lil bro. Also if Saddam killed your father to fight the Kurds would you still respect him? Also let’s be honest, while Iran is bad what the fuck did Israel do? If the genocide in Gaza is the worst situation and “is worse than Sayfo, Armenian genocide, Mongols, and the war in Sudan” why is Gaza’s population growing? Better question why are people fucking each other during a war? You don’t see this in Ukraine, Syria, even Iraq but in Gaza you see a population growth.
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u/randy4thquarter 17d ago
Tariq Aziz is a traitor? He helped put down rebellions in our region. Also my father wouldn’t be killed by Sadam because he affirms his power and isn’t looking to challenge/rebel that. Denying the genocide in Gaza is just insane who cares if their population grows it’s still a genocide. Craziest part is that it’s all in 4k and the whole world sees it. And do you think Arabs Tariq as the same race? No they knew he was Christian and of Assyrian/Chladean descent whatever terms ppl wanna use.
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 17d ago
Tariq Aziz worked for Saddam a guy that displaced us. Also Saddam killed many innocent people who weren’t rebelling even Assyrians killed by his regime. I know this was under Al Bakr but Saddam was vice president and carried out the Soriya massacre. Also by the logic of you hating the Jews why don’t you also hate the Emirates who support the RSF killing Sudanese civilians? Why don’t you also hate the Turks for Sayfo, Armenian genocide, Greek genocide, and even murders of our Russian brothers in faith even if they’re orthodox they’re still our brothers, why don’t you hate America for Abu Ghraib and other crimes in Iraq, war crimes in Afghanistan, the blockade of Cuba, even capturing your “precious” Saddam who I hate but you like? Why not hate on these other people who have done worse than me ur Jews wish they ever could? Also hating on Israel doesn’t mean you should hate on every Jew who’s alive. Besides as if the Palestinians didn’t do crimes when they hijacked a field as part of the black September conflict with Jordan, their massacres against Christians in Lebanon, their support for the Ayatollah regime and ties with the Muslim brotherhood, there is so much more Palestinian crimes and you don’t condemn those?
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u/randy4thquarter 17d ago
Bro you just gotta realize that most of these “massacres” are Sadam putting out a light of rebellion. Whether it be with the different political parties that consistently looked to overthrow him or the Kurds that consistently looked to flip at whole chunk of the nation into their hands. We look at it from a western mindset but you need to account the region we are from. Muhammad spread his word by the sword and Sadam spread his word by the gun. The only way to have prosperity in the Middle East is to rule it with an iron fist
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 17d ago
Also obviously I know Tariq Aziz was Chaldean/Assyrian he was born Mikhail Yuhanna but he was a traitor for turning himself Arab.
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u/randy4thquarter 17d ago
Im not a fan of hamas but I won’t deny a clear genocide on Palestinians and most of those things you mention I condemn almost all of them. Jews also killed god. Evil ppl. And I’m not sure of the things sadam did was vice president but as leader I believe that he was straight. If you true to him he is true to you. And I think that Tariq knew this. Kurds can portray to be democratic but we never know what they would do to us if they had a nation. Christian Arabs live in multiple nations. I don’t think Tariq was dumb. He probably thought Sadam was our only path to having a stable life for our people
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 17d ago
Lemme reply to these with bullet points it’s easier. • then don’t deny the genocide on Lebanese Christians either • Jesus was a Jew btw and not all Jews are bad even if most Jews are bad still not all are • the Soriya massacre wasn’t directly commanded by him but was by a Ba’ath party leader • I obviously don’t support the Kurds either or at least the Kurdish political parties. You don’t see my profile picture is Agha petros an Assyrian commander who fought the Kurds? • our villages were still destroyed and its still Saddam’s responsibility
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u/Far-Pineapple-2409 13d ago
I stand with the Kurds in my opinion, I agree with you on most things. But I actually think relations with the Kurds is improving. I think now that a lot of them know our perspective it’s getting better. I dunno I like them. I’m grateful they are near us and it’s not more Turks. Or else we’d be extinct.
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u/Beneficial-Role1450 11d ago
It’s improving but still we can’t fully trust the Kurds after helping the Ottomans in Sayfo
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u/oremfrien Assyrian 19d ago
The Assyrians that I have met who like Saddam (which do not include me as my family was evicted from Iraq as a result of the Arabization of Mosul), usually make the argument that if an Assyrian accepted Arab identity, Saddam's Iraq was open to them and they needed not face the kind of repression that Assyrians typically faced under prior Muslim rulers who imposed religious-based discrimination.