Jesus Does Not Need Your Cain

[u/OLDPARSON]

Summary: Too many professing Christians believe Christ needs a little help to finish His work. They are like the Judiazers Paul fought and like Cain who wanted God to accept His work rather than having the faith of Abel.

Act 15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:

31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.

32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.

Circumcision was the very first rite of Judaism. It was bringing you into the covenant family. No Jewish family would consider not doing this to their male child and try to raise them in the Law. Without the foundation the rest would be useless. Gentile converts to Judaism were required to be circumcised under the Law, which is probably what sparked the issue the Council addressed.

That said, it is very clear that the Gentiles were not required to keep any of the Mosaic Code to be saved/sanctified if they were not required to lay the foundation of circumcision. Though these men were Jewish they said the Holy Ghost told them what to say to the Gentile believers.

We do not have to keep feasts or Sabbaths of any kind. Baptism did not replace circumcision since circumcision was no longer required. Besides, if that were true girls were not circumcised so they would not be baptized either In essence, circumcision was a blood covenant between God and man. The shedding of hymeneal blood on the wedding night was the blood covenant between man and woman.

All those groups that try to mingle the OT and the NT or Law an Grace are practicing the very thing Paul fought against throughout his writings. Indeed, it is a grave error that Paul warned the Galatians that if they were circumcised, they would have to keep the whole Law.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

No one can keep the whole Law, not even the Jews as there is no temple to sacrifice in and has not been one since 70 AD. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin so if you want to keep the Law you are doomed because if you sin in one point of the Law you break the whole Law. Anything else you do is a waste of time and profits you nothing in the courts of Heaven.

Remember Cain? He wanted a Frank Sinatra kind of sacrifice. Cain did it his way and offered up the fruit of his labors and was rejected. A Gentile trying to keep the Law is doing the same thing. In fact, it is a slap in Christ's face making His sacrifice not quite enough to get the job done. He needs our rituals and vain keeping of the Law to complete the work He came to do.

He came to set us free from sin and to fulfill the Law allowing us to walk in freedom as sons and daughters. Yet, we enslave ourselves to rites and rituals of men who failed to grasp what the Cross meant. Faith and faith alone justifies us before God. Jesus paid it all and we received the gift for free when we turn from our Cain religions to the faith/trust in Christ.

In the beginning, God only asked for faith/trust in Him about that tree. Instead, we in Adam trusted the devil, our sight, our lust and pride thus we died and suffer from the hells of sins until the day the universal curse is lifted at the creation of the new heaven and earth after the Millennium.

Faith is what He wants still. All through the Word God spoke and those with faith trusted Him in whatever situation they were in. Those who did not trust Him did their thing and suffered.

Jesus does not need any Cain to aid Him. The work is finished. You cannot add to or take away from it by your works or rituals. All you can do is give Him your Cain and walk in freedom and wholeness. Hallelujah! Maranatha!!!

[u/Hoon0967]

We are but tools. All praise goes the Master Builder that employs us. 

[u/-ShyLuna-]

Right, Jesus was the last person who was required to be circumcised.

[u/Djh1982]

So the thing I’d like to point out is that the prophet Isaiah foretold that the Messiah would bring his own Torah(Isaiah 42:4). Then Isaiah 51:4–5 says:

“Give attention to me, my people… for a law will go out from me… My righteousness draws near, my salvation has gone out.”

So “a law will go out” and then it says “my salvation has gone out”.

Ergo: Christ’s salvation is received through obedience to His Law.

Christ’s Law says we have to show mercy to get mercy from God:

“For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
—Matthew 6:14–15

So while I can readily agree that we are not under the Law of Moses, I also wouldn’t say that our own actions aren’t playing some role in how Christ’s saving grace is applied.

You cited Galatians 5:1, which explains that no one is “justified by the Law”, but the Law Paul was referring to there was the Law of Moses—not the Law of Christ which Isaiah connects to “salvation”.

You can’t take a passage which excludes justification through the Law of Moses to support the conclusion that keeping Christ’s Law can’t result in justification.

That’s a category error.

Moreover it’s true that James says to fail in one point of the Law is to fail in all points…but his meaning there was that we all need God’s mercy and that’s why we have to give it to others when they need it:

“So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty… For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.”
—James 2:12–13

Then he says a few passages later that man is “not justified by faith alone”(James 2:24).

His meaning here is now clear:

James is saying that we need to show mercy in order for our imperfect attempts at keeping Christ’s Law to justify us.

Very simple to understand if we’re being honest.

IN SUMMARY

The Law of Moses cannot justify(Gal.5:1, Romans 3:28).

The Law of Christ CAN justify(Romans 2:13, James 2:24).

But ONLY on the condition that we show mercy to others(James 2:12-13, Matthew 6:14-15).

If we fail to do this then our imperfect works will not justify in the sight of God: He’ll simply point out all the times you failed to keep the Law and deny you the judgment of charity when evaluating your good works.

In short: Obey Christ’s law by showing charity and mercy to others and God will judge your good works as worthy of justification on that same basis and give you eternal life accordingly:

“He will render to each one ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS: to those who by PATIENCE IN WELL-DOING seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give ETERNAL LIFE.”(Romans 2:6-7)

What Paul says here is not some hypothetical: he’s telling you as a Christian what will happen if you play nicely with others and always extend them grace.

Basically help others and you help yourself.

Again, very easy to understand✌️.

P.S.:

I tagged you in [u/EkoNCynS](u/EkoNCynS) because I know you were interested in denominational differences.

I thought you’d enjoy seeing how a Protestant reads these passages(incorrectly) verses a Catholic reading of them.

[u/Kindly_Menu252 → u/Djh1982]

Romans 2:13 is talking about OT law, it's the theme of Ch2. The law of Christ gal 6:2 is about loving another, just as Christ loved us. This is the new law for every born again believer that they should walk in.

Its like joining a different country, and following the laws in that country. Are you still a citizen if you break the law? Yes of course, nothing changes the believers position in Christ once saved.

I'm not sure about this wording '...if we fail to do this then our imperfect works will not justify in the sight of God" What's being justified, the works or the person? The person is justified immediately after a confession of faith in God. The works are tested for rewards 1 cor 3.

Failing to show charity or love ...good example as you mentioned in James 2 leads to loss in reward but not in justification.

So to circle back, works after salvation, count for rewards it is not needed to secure eternal life.

I like to think of it like this using my real life family. My children do not need to obey me, to be my children. There is nothing that will ever change that relationship (sonship into God's family by faith, John 1:12) but if they want to be rewarded or have nice things or have favour then they should obey.

Hope that clarifies a bit more on the baptist interpretation

[u/Djh1982 → u/Kindly_Menu252]

We need to distinguish between what we are saved “BY” and what we are saved “THROUGH”.

We are saved BY grace, but THROUGH what?

Paul clarifies this in 2 Thessalonians 2:13, where he says:

“But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved ⭐️THROUGH⭐️ the sanctifying work of the Spirit** ⭐️**AND⭐️ through belief in the truth.”

Notice that’s two ✌️ things, not ☝️ thing:

1. Sanctification

2. Faith

So already “Faith alone” fails as the “only” thing we are being saved “through”.

When Paul says we are “saved BY grace THROUGH faith” in Ephesians 2:8-9 he was OMITTING that we are also “saved through” sanctification.

That’s because he was focusing on making sure his audience understood we are not saved “BY” our works.

However.

Romans 6:22 says:

“But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to SANCTIFICATION and its end, ETERNAL LIFE.” (Romans 6:22)

So good works “lead to sanctification” through which Paul says we are being “saved”.

Ergo: to be saved “through faith and sanctification” is the SAME EXACT THING as saying:

“Saved through faith and good works”.

The PROBLEM that we’re having…is that when Protestants hear a Catholic says:

“We are saved THROUGH good works”

What they HEAR👂is:

“We are saved BY our good works”

And that’s how the miscommunication happens.

Paul taught: saved “through” faith and good works.

But he did not teach: saved BY faith and good works.

We are saved BY grace.

Faith and “good works” are the instruments of our salvation: not the grounding.

But that still means you DO need both to secure eternal life.

So when you said:

“So to circle back, works after salvation, count for rewards it is not needed to secure eternal life.”

You’re wrong. They are needed. Absolutely.

[u/Kindly_Menu252 → u/Djh1982]

You and I have clearly talked about this at length before, I appreciate the replies.

There is another miscommunication I want to add...

What Catholics hear when baptists says faith alone: "No works count for the Christian". Works are confused for attaining salvation , baptists view works as a result of receiving salvation. If you have children, do they obey you to be your child? Or do they obey you because they are you child? Let's not forget John 1:12.

Here are my thoughts:

We are saved by grace. The mechanisms for attaining that grace differ.

The catholic response says that faith + works is how we attain it.

The baptist response is grace is received at the moment of faith (or confession).

The mechanism for receiving that grace is THROUGH faith - here we agree in part (the catholic response add works to it, we reject that) Romans 10:9-10 is that moment of faith where a person access this grace to God ergo: secured and saved. There is no mention of works to access this (this is not a private interpretation this is taught all over the NT). Also the words are "thou shalt be saved" - implies good as done from God's end. Are we going to make God a liar? Titus 1:2

We also need to wrestle Eph1:1-14 which by exegesis proves that at the moment of faith, we are predestined to be with Jesus (we are marked, sealed, sanctified or set apart). Meaning nothing changes that, it's a one way ticket. It's not "you have access to grace, but you need to live your earthly life in faith + works to get the end result."

So then how important are the works? Very important, but not for securing eternal life. Again, they are what the believer should do, live according to. Eph 2:10, these works were ordained for every born again believer before the beginning of the world.

Even James 2 provides this pattern, Abraham had the faith, declared righteous before God, then the works (sacrifice of Isaac) then was it made perfect ergo then did people know that Abraham was a man of faith/God.

Romans 6:22 - It seems there is some eisegesis. The context of Chapter 6 + 7 explains that because we are servants of Christ we should produce works or fruits of holiness, at the end of this earthly life we enter into eternal life, regardless fruitful or not. How do you become a servant of righteousness - through faith - the most likely question from our discussion is 1) that's grace received = secured to eternal life OR 2) means you have the right to do good works as long as it's mixed in with faith = end result unknown.

Matthew 7:21-22 is something to wrestle with because if the definition of faith + works = access to eternal life then Jesus rejects them - "I NEVER knew you". Are we to say something ignorant and say those people lacked faith? Isn't access to eternal life much simpler? In God's infinite wisdom, isn't the requirement for faith the only thing needed - why would God abolish the law, then establish a new law that was still dependent on mankind to get right which can never be done ergo Jesus' act of sacrifice.

Look in the end we can continue all day, but I would say rejoice because the only requirement is faith - this means every person catholic, anglican, lutheran or non-denominational, non-church person is saved, if they have placed genuine trust in Jesus and not relying on their works.

I am not judging whether Catholics are saved or not - I would never be that ignorant or arrogant (I am ex-catholic), but the requirement is faith - not denomination or particular set of theology (to some degree).

God will not judge us if we understood the scriptures 100% correctly, or joined the right denomination, God will not judge our works as currency for eternal life. God already knows who are his by faith, sealed by the Holy Spirit at the time of their trust in who Jesus is, and the finished work on the cross.

[u/Djh1982 → u/Kindly_Menu252]

You wrote a lot but in a way, said nothing.

You need to explain 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

If we are saved “through faith alone” why does it list SANCTIFICATION as an instrument of our salvation?

If “good works” LEAD to that which we are being “saved through” how can you remove “good works” from being involved with salvation instrumentally?

I’m sorry but you’ve been caught here.

[u/Kindly_Menu252 → u/Djh1982]

Last reply

Thorough study on sanctification there are two main applications, one definition.

Definition: To be set apart for something, usually holy. OT example: The Levites were sanctified - SET APART for the work of the tabernacle.

Two applications.

1. To be set apart for God by faith, through the Holy Spirit. This is explained in Eph 1:1-14, and is consistent with 2 The 2:13 (it also touches on predestination - something I covered from my previous post making it doubly consistent).
2. To live a sanctified life. E.g. holy, obedient, faithful life on earth. Col 3:1-13

There is only one moment when a person becomes sanctified(SET APART) for Christ, at time of salvation.

Now that the believer is SET APART for God, we are instructed to live in that truth. To live a sanctified life - A LIFE SET APART from non-believers. It isn't any more complicated than that.

There is no verse, with thorough bible study, read in its proper context that supports works as a contributing factor to receiving eternal life.