r/CANZUK • u/The_Gaming_Beaver123 • 6d ago
Opinion Opinions on a merger?
Just want to ask what people thin of a merger between these 4 countries:
I am personally pro CANZUK as one country, however it would be like 4 federal governments for each region and one national government for defense, currecy, international relations etc
the reasons are that we would get simpler travel between the countries, a stronger military, more global control so the annoying americans can't push us around as easily, more national pride due to our country for lack of a better term being way cooler, trade barriers would be gone so all 4 of us would be richer, and just generally a nicer country with similar culture and the same language too.
I am curious to hear other peoples thoughts and especially why it shouldnt happen according to people.
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u/Striking_End6580 New Zealand 6d ago
No. A confederation/something analogous to the EU at absolute best.
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u/The_Gaming_Beaver123 5d ago
can i see your reasoning tho and if its just protecting national identity then thats fine
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u/wayoverpaid 6d ago
I want freedom of movement and trade, and perhaps a common bill of rights that does not supersede any one nation's constitution.
I do not want to be literally one nation.
Because I do not want to be one singular nation, I also do not want a common currency. A common currency means giving up quite a bit of fiscal control. Greece's adventure with the Euro have cooled me on that idea. Yes it's convenient for travel, but as we go to a largely cashless and computerized society I'll settle for zero transaction and ATM fees by agreement. Let whoever has the weaker currency get more tourism.
A common defense arrangement is fine, but I'd rather have cooperation on standards and purchasing.
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u/JourneyThiefer Northern Ireland 6d ago
The same currency thing being handy isn’t even a thing anymore given people use card for 99% of transactions anyway and you can just get Revolut for example.
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u/wayoverpaid 6d ago
Not familiar with Revolut but looking at it, yeah.
My past trip to Europe it was nice to have one currency for the places where I needed cash, mostly farmer's market type things. We're mostly cashless as a society.
But yeah I don't think it's worth giving up fiscal control of your nation just so that tourists can save a trip to the bank.
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u/JourneyThiefer Northern Ireland 6d ago
I live 5 min drive from the Irish border so frequently be in the south of Ireland and half the time I forget there’s a currency difference because I just use card for everything lol
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u/itotally_CAN_even 6d ago
As one country? Naw, fuck that. Canada is sovereign and nothing will change that, especially not without the direction of people Indigenous to this land.
Also, Canada is officially bilingual — we don’t just speak English, conasse stupide.
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u/The_Gaming_Beaver123 5d ago
canada wouldn't necessarily not loose anything major, decisions for canada will stay in canada, i am just saying that things like defense and currency would be better if we were one country
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u/spagbolshevik New Zealand 6d ago
I support an EU-style confederation, personally.
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u/JourneyThiefer Northern Ireland 6d ago
How far in closeness?
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u/spagbolshevik New Zealand 6d ago
Everything the EU has but, instead of a single currency and central bank, an integrated military.
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u/JourneyThiefer Northern Ireland 6d ago
Would be very interesting for us in Northern Ireland, we’d have full EU access for exporting our goods and all also full access to CANZUK countries.
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u/Ok_Type_4301 5d ago
That's how it should be (not just for the UK) but France would veto it in less than a heart beat.
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u/Flat-Dark-Earth 6d ago
Separate countries. Maintain sovereignty and be united behind common goals.
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u/Putrid_Cod3758 6d ago
I'm an American but always loved idea of CANZUK. Anyways , in my mind I always felt that if they had one branch of government in each region/country nobody would feel left out. UK could represent the monarchy and head of state and diplomacy. Canada Parliament, New Zealand Supreme Court, and Australia Headquarters of Military. With technology and zoom and all that it would not be hard for things to be counted documented or discussions held.
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u/Ok_Type_4301 5d ago
I like your idea of Australia hosting the Military.
In the event of WWIII, we could implement an 'Asia First' policy. The rest of CANZUK would entirley focus on pursing victory in the Indo Pacific. With a bit of luck, Russia would even overextend its supply lines and exhaust itself invading the UK.
Once victory in the Indo Pacific was achieved, we would then swing our entire resources behind our kith and kin in the UK, and kick Ivan all the way back to Russia.
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u/Capt_Zapp_Brann1gan 5d ago
You can't just merge 4 countries. It would take decades of closer alignment if it was to be done peacefully.
CANZUK isn't and shouldn't be about a merger. If that comes about a century later because the partnership flourishes then so be it, but I doubt any of us would see it. The focus for CANZUK now and into the future should be free trade, closer foreign policy/defence cooperation and some form of free movement.
We can't even get that done at the moment.
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u/AggravatingPenalty26 3d ago
Not just no, but fuck no. If I don't want Canada to merge with the US, why the hell would I want a merger with some overseas country which has never done anything for me, and is half the reason the country is screwed up in the first place?
I'm all for an economic and/or defense alliance of CANZUK, if it make sense--and we're already getting the CANZ part of that deal. But, we either need to let the monarchy go, or we need to split the monarchy and demand that the King of Canada live in Canada and be concerned only with Canada.
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u/Mediocre-Acadia-4146 10h ago
I agree about not merging, but the UK, Australia and New Zealand have nothing to do with our country being screwed up. It was several decades of ignorant Canadians handing bits of our sovereignty over to the US until finally the US was ready to strike. NAFTA was not good for Canada. Ending our Avro Arrow plan and sending all our engineers to NASA was not good for Canada. Allowing foreign corporations to take over all our businesses was insane. And neglecting our military for decades because all the old people thought "We don't need a military, the US will always protect us" was nieve, foolish, and stupid with a capital R.
Vive le Canada!But yes, I fully support CANZUK as a cooperative alliance
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u/Mediocre-Acadia-4146 9h ago
I also want to react to your anti monarchy statement. I'm loyal to King and Country. I swore an oath to the late Queen, her Heirs and Successors. The monarch is the fiber of Canada. The loyalists are Canadians, and this is ultimately the reason we are not the yanks.
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u/JourneyThiefer Northern Ireland 1h ago
They’re just some rich old family, dno why you like them so much. I don’t hate them, I just think they’re irrelevant in a modern society and people that talk them up are strange.
They could say they’re all moving to Italy in the morning and the UK is turning into a republic, literally couldn’t give a shit and dno why other people do.
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u/Still-Bridges 5d ago
The worst of all possible worlds is an EU like confederation by any name - where the governments make the laws that bind their pwrliaments, democratic change is nearly impossible because the lines of accountability are reversed and confused, and the political, journalistic and bureaucratic elite have a different idea about identity than the general public. This also happens to be what most people are after for Canzuk. A sovereign merger like you suggest would be more democratic - and therefore better - than that, but the best is just working together without a name and without structure. However, if a union is to be achieved, it should preserve the laws of each country - the common parliament could create a new common currency, but until it does, the existing ones continue. The same for the army and regulations. Retain national bureaucracies (until merged by law) but perhaps abolish national parliaments and constitutions. The union between Scotland and England would be a better model than the Australian federation or the Canadian confederation - especially if state and provincial parliaments can serve the need for locality.
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u/KahnaKuhl Australia 5d ago
I’m in favour of multilateral trade and defence agreements generally; particularly between nations that genuinely practise democracy and uphold human rights.
But I’m dubious of an extra-special relationship between the CANZUK nations for two reasons:
* Global justice - CANZUK looks a lot like wealthy nations preserving their privilege and continuing to exclude ‘developing’ nations from the best education, trade deals, migration opportunities and military alliances. It smells faintly of how France continues to exploit West Africa and how the US continues to exploit Latin America and the Caribbean. I’d rather include into partnership those nations that are pursuing democracy and still wrestling with the effects of colonisation: the Pacific island nations, East Timor, Botswana, Costa Rica, etc.
* Racism - Is it an accident that the CANZUK countries are all white majority nations with a shared history of genocide and/or dispossession of their indigenous peoples? If it’s only about Westminster democracies and English-speaking populations, what about Malaysia, South Africa or India?
I would much rather see stronger ties being built by my country with others in the Asia-Pacific: not just New Zealand but also Japan, S.Korea, Taiwan, Malaysia and Pacific island nations, with provision made for regional governments in less-democratic countries (Kerala? Hong Kong?) to also move towards closer ties by making and maintaining reforms.
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u/The_Gaming_Beaver123 5d ago
the main reason i excluded india and african countries is because mostly language barriers and our cultures are a lot more similar and theirs are a lot different in terms of religion and interests, which isnt a bad thing obviously i just think it would be a barrier as they would be a lot more fond of their own national identities, and we can obviously still trade with and do deals with developing countries but i doubt in terms of culture and religion they would want to merge as a country
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u/Ok_Type_4301 3d ago
I accept the optics would not have been good for Australia - whether warranted or not.
In that same light, Australia frequently gets asked uncomfortable questions by our neighbours about CER with NZ and there is no easy answer.
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u/Matthius81 6d ago
A merger isn't on the table. Our legal systems are too divergent, our military interests too spread out, our economies too varied. That being said there's plenty of scope for cooperations and trade agreements. CANZUK would work as a trade association and intelligence sharing agreement.