The Death Spiral of CFB began 12-4-11

[u/Responsible_Animal63]

The BCS slogan was every game mattered. On December 4, 2011 that all changed. Alabama, which finished in 3rd place in the SEC and had already lost on their home field to No. 1 LSU, was placed in the BCSNC game due to “the eye test” over an Oklahoma State team that had a better overall resume.

Whether it was to usher in the four-team playoff or just generate bigger TV ratings, this completely invalidated the results of the so-called “Game of the Century”
between LSU and Alabama. Alabama’s consequence for losing on its home field was to essentially get a free pass to back in to the championship game. LSU’s “reward” for beating the Tide was a matchup with UGA in the SEC Championship Game - and then having to beat Bama again. Essentially, LSU had to go 3-0
in those games, but Bama only had to be 1-1.

Every game no longer mattered.

EDIT TO ADD:

Resume Comparison

SOS - Okie St # 6, Bama # 23

Wins vs BCS Top 25- OSU 4 (#8 Kansas, #12 Baylor, #14 Oklahoma, #24 Texas)

Bama - 2 (#6 Arkansas, #22 Penn State)

FBS Wins - OSU 11, Bama 10

Oklahoma State - Big 12 Champs

Bama - 3rd Place SEC (2nd in West Division)

—————

Bama’s argument is based on their loss being better than Oklahoma State’s loss.

Bama lost to the #1 team in the country. It was at home, with a huge home crowd, in a game where they knew the SEC West and likely a national championship berth was on the line.

OSU lost to a 6-6 team. It was on the road, on a Friday night, on a day that the university’s athletic department suffered a major tragedy.

Bama was given a do-over for a losing a game where they had everything in their favor.

[u/bohanker]

Regardless of what your team affiliation is and which team you think was more deserving of the #2 spot in the 2011 BCS rankings, I think we can all acknowledge that the Coaches' poll being part of the BCS formula invited conflicts of interest that ultimately destroyed the credibility of the BCS

[u/Snoo93079 → u/bohanker]

I think the BCS was fundementally flawed at its core concept and was doomed to fail.

As soon as you have a national championship game there's no way you end up not having actual playoffs

[u/dodrugzwitthugz → u/Snoo93079]

I keep saying that different leagues with relegation like soccer in Europe is the only reasonable way forward with so many different teams available

[u/cooterdick → u/dodrugzwitthugz]

Relegation will never happen because why would any team in a power conference agree to it? They’re the ones making the decisions, and they’re only making decisions that benefit them.

[u/HieloLuz → u/cooterdick]

They would never agree to it but it would be the way to save what matters about college football

[u/Tightywhitees]

CFB ended December 21, 1984 when BYU won the national championship. Everything since then has been attempts to prevent that scenario from ever repeating.

[u/GlassesOff → u/Tightywhitees]

Hard to explain to my friends and family if I had a time machine, this might actually be the 2nd or 3rd stop to set up a sequence of events to prevent BYU from being undefeated. I'd be like that Stephen King character in 11/22/63, trying to prevent this from happening all year

[u/Virtual_Announcer → u/GlassesOff]

Or prevent Pitt from the preseason #3 ranking. BYU beat them opening weekend to vault from unranked to #11, which set them on a path of running the table to the title.

Pitt went 3-7-1 that year. That win was meaningless in the grand scheme, but teams are never punished after the fact for ranked wins in September that turn into rotten apples in NOvember.

[u/Competitive-Zone-330 → u/GlassesOff]

You would unknowingly create multiple Group conference national champions

[u/Tightywhitees → u/GlassesOff]

If Chuck Stobart hadn‘t attended the Schembechler School’ of How to Alienate and Anger People I think Utah might’ve gotten them in 84.

[u/dunnodudes → u/GlassesOff]

Based on your flair, I don’t think you struggle to explain that to people, they just don’t believe your motive.

Keep fighting. Hope you figure out the Time Machine to pursue your noble mission.

[u/horaff → u/GlassesOff]

Reading through that book as we speak, loving it about half way through!

[u/TheOrangeFutbol → u/Tightywhitees]

College Football’s version of 2003 Matt Kenseth.

[u/The-Mayor-44 → u/TheOrangeFutbol]

Matt Kenseth had 25 top tens out of 36 races and like 1 DNF in 2003, he’s closer to Georgia Tech - Cumberlands than 1984 BYU

Edit: had to look up his stats that year

[u/AnalBaguette → u/TheOrangeFutbol]

Now I'm trying to figure out how a Chase would work for football

[u/Gamernoob29 → u/AnalBaguette]

We take the Coaches Poll top 8 after 9 games and play a round Robin season with just those 8 schools to determine a champion…

And that’s probably still a more fair way to crown a champion then the NASCAR Playoffs lmao

[u/name-__________ → u/Gamernoob29]

NASCAR doesn’t have the race off anymore, they’re doing a 16 car Chase for the Cup

[u/DodgerCoug → u/Tightywhitees]

The immortalized 84' championship forever in our hearts

[u/Typical-Function6436 → u/Tightywhitees]

Rightfully so. An undefeated mid major vs. Unranked 6-5 team before Xmas to win the natty. Whats not to hate?

[u/SPCsooprlolz → u/Tightywhitees]

Sorry not sorry

[u/Ltownbanger → u/Tightywhitees]

Preach it brother!

Watching the Orange Bowl that year with two powerhouse teams , you know whoever came out on top was the best team in the country.

[u/philmardok → u/Tightywhitees]

Indiana has entered the chat*

[u/DillyDillySzn]

The death spiral began when the University of Oklahoma sued the NCAA for TV rights in 1984

[u/cartierboy25 → u/DillyDillySzn]

When you really think about it the death spiral began on November 6, 1869 when Rutgers played Princeton

[u/P1mpathinor → u/cartierboy25]

In the beginning, College Football was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.

[u/jestr6 → u/P1mpathinor]

Always gonna upvote a Hitchhiker’s reference.

[u/AuditorOfTheNight → u/jestr6]

So long, and thanks for all the playoffs.

[u/KiowaBear → u/cartierboy25]

I was there, cartierboy25. I was there 157 years ago. I was there the day the strength of men failed

[u/Probable_Bot1236 → u/cartierboy25]

And promptly sued for the rights to broadcast the results of subsequent games via telegraph.

[u/JeepnHeel → u/cartierboy25]

Truly a low point in the 1860s

[u/MaxPower91575 → u/cartierboy25]

Those sonsabitches! I knew it was Rutgers and Princeton all along!

[u/apadin1 → u/DillyDillySzn]

Yep, everything after that was the NCAA slowly yielding ground to the TV networks and conferences until they became the ones running the sport and the NCAA became a shell

[u/Lane-Kiffin → u/DillyDillySzn]

The TV rights story is a similar story to how the NCAA botched NIL:

All they had to do was create a reasonable process to keep people happy. Instead, they did nothing, fought back if anyone dared to oppose them, and at the end of the day the courts had the final say and removed all authority.

[u/Loial731 → u/Lane-Kiffin]

This. There's an excellent podcast on the subject by the Phantom Island guys "Who killed college football"

[u/lkn240 → u/Loial731]

"Again, college football is very much alive"

[u/originalbiggusdickus → u/lkn240]

It lives in Tampa, Florida

[u/Gusanito99 → u/originalbiggusdickus]

If only 🥲

[u/Loial731 → u/lkn240]

Its just the name they discuss the reason for it during the podcast

[u/bittah_king → u/Lane-Kiffin]

Please expand on this “reasonable process” the only legal path would be through an antitrust exemption from Congress. And the there is still the obstacle of public and private universities being governed by the same rules - I.e some states have laws lows against public employees being forced into the union - this could apply to players of public universities in some states and not others. Additionally, how do you convince these kids a union that provides health care and retirement benefits is worth restricting their free agency and income potential? Easy to get adult professionals on board, not so much 18-22 year olds. Schools would have and will always fight against that control. 

[u/alphawealthy → u/Lane-Kiffin]

my disclaimer here is the NCAA is of course incompetent but it’s hilarious to see people say this like “it was so easy; all they had to do was X” as if that wouldn’t have had its own drawbacks, opposition and legal battles

[u/mynameisevan → u/Lane-Kiffin]

No such process could possibly exist. There would always be schools and conferences who think that they deserve more money and wouldn’t hesitate to blow up the system to get it.

[u/joethahobo → u/DillyDillySzn]

Never forget when they used to impose TV bans on teams.

It was nice cause we could make every home game a night game. But also with no TV you lose eyeballs and therefore you lose recruits as well

[u/admiraltarkin → u/DillyDillySzn]

No, it started in 1883 when the state of Texas decided to make a 3rd public university.

We were doing just fine with two 😡

[u/tanu24 → u/admiraltarkin]

Started in year 0 when jesus invented SEC football

[u/admiraltarkin → u/tanu24]

Don't be silly. Jesus created the SWC not the SEC

[u/BroadBrazosAvon95 → u/admiraltarkin]

You’re gotdam right brother

[u/Tsquared10 → u/tanu24]

In the beginning, The Lord created football. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

[u/Clifo → u/admiraltarkin]

huh TIL how old Prairie View A&M is

[u/admiraltarkin → u/Clifo]

My dad went there so I gotta rep em when I can

Edit: decided to change them to my secondary flair 😎

[u/sungun77 → u/DillyDillySzn]

So with OU and OSU as two of the root causes, we can just blame the state of Oklahoma

[u/JohnPaulDavyJones → u/sungun77]

Some of us in Texas have been advocating for the removal of Oklahoma from the union for quite some time. Everyone else is just now catching up.

[u/gilbygamer → u/sungun77]

Can't argue with that.

[u/Revolver_Oshawott_ → u/sungun77]

Ryan Walters strikes again!

[u/TheHorniestPartner → u/DillyDillySzn]

Wasn't there typically just a couple games on TV each Saturday afternoon back then? I don't recall any Saturday night games on TV when I was a young kid. ESPN only aired Notre Dame games........on Sunday mornings!

[u/Affectionate-Dot8124 → u/TheHorniestPartner]

This was long before my time, but I had read about it in law school and how it opened the door for conferences to negotiate tv deals on their own, and led to Notre Dame’s successful NBC deal

[u/zoom518 → u/Affectionate-Dot8124]

Yeah, the Notre Dame deal was a big shock to the system. And if I’m not mistaken, the SEC finding a loophole shortly after to have a conference championship game was also a big deal.

[u/BoukenGreen → u/zoom518]

Wasn’t a loophole. They used an already existing NCAA rule. It was just mainly used in D3 and not 1-A at that time.

[u/Affectionate-Dot8124 → u/BoukenGreen]

The rule was 12 teams right?

[u/BoukenGreen → u/Affectionate-Dot8124]

Yep. 12 teams split into 2 divisions

[u/FyreWulff → u/TheHorniestPartner]

every team was limited to 3 televised games and even after that limit was abolished they were broadcast regionally with only marquee games getting a national broadcast.

[u/Brilliant-Deer6118 → u/TheHorniestPartner]

In,the 70's just one, maybe 2 games were broadcast nationally . I remember watching replays of Notre Dame on WGN Sunday mornings. Lindsey Nelson"after an exchange of punts, we move to further action in the first quarter".

[u/Specialist-Level-540 → u/DillyDillySzn]

Oklahoma cracking open the TV money door is the real origin point, no argument there. Everything after is just dominoes falling toward whatever makes the most cash that season. The BCS picking Bama over Oklahoma State was the moment the mask fully slipped but the system was already rotten by then. LSU getting punished for winning their division and then having to beat the same team twice while Bama sat home is still the funniest worst part of it. Now we got a 12 team playoff where half the field is decided by brand name and TV execs, so the spiral just keeps spinning.

[u/CatoTheStupid → u/DillyDillySzn]

I think Larry Scott signing the unusually long Pac12 deal in 2011 was a major tick on the doomsday clock. Was kind of disappointed this thread wasn't about that haha. Wasn't sure what day it was on exactly in 2011.

[u/SpaceghostLos → u/DillyDillySzn]

Hindsight is perfect but I think this was always going to happen.

[u/Airforce32123 → u/DillyDillySzn]

No no no, the death spiral began with the invention of the forward pass in 1906

[u/TheWallsHaveNostrils → u/Airforce32123]

Huh. That's a weird looking Iowa flair.

[u/orrocos → u/Airforce32123]

Damn Billikens!

[u/Gusanito99 → u/Airforce32123]

Nah, it was in 1874 when McGill introduced Harvard to this hot new sport called rugby

[u/therealwillhepburn → u/DillyDillySzn]

Don't let Georgia out of this. It's both of them.

[u/BalloonBunny1974 → u/therealwillhepburn]

Damn straight. And not a soul in this thread would want to go back to the old days of getting 3 televised games per week.

[u/BrettHullsBurner → u/DillyDillySzn]

WashU flairs being so prevalent in this sub always catches me off guard.

[u/chastity_BLT → u/DillyDillySzn]

Preach

[u/blatantninja → u/DillyDillySzn]

The DVR did more to kill college athletics than anything else. Yes VCRs existed but the primary way of watching non-sports content was not to record and watch later. DVRs massively changed the advertising game and the value of Live sports, where people generally are going to watch it live, with commercials, went through the roof. Then the money started really flowing into college sports and the whole game began to change.

[u/20CharactersJustIsnt → u/DillyDillySzn]

Some other stupid ass school sued with them but everyone blames Oklahoma not the other school. I can’t remember which one, but they suck too.

[u/64stackdiamonds]

The death spiral of CFB began in 1906 when the forward pass was legalized

[u/CptTurnersOpticNerve → u/64stackdiamonds]

expected Iowa flair

[u/havensd1 → u/CptTurnersOpticNerve]

Those days are in the past

[u/chad_sancho → u/64stackdiamonds]

Certified ball knower

[u/hi_marx → u/64stackdiamonds]

Go on....

[u/EdFlynn2001]

Before the BCS and the Bowl Coalitions, the independents (there were over 30 of them) were the only ones who really put values in rankings and truely cared about the mythical sportswriters national title. Winning the Rose Bowl was the goal for top Big 10 teams and Pac 10 teams. The texas teams had the Cotton Bowl and the SEC had the Sugar Bowl. College football was like four different leagues with 4 Champions each year. The conferences cared more about winning the bowl game than the national title. 

[u/DoctorTheWho → u/EdFlynn2001]

It was the best of times.

[u/EdFlynn2001 → u/DoctorTheWho]

Back in the day teams were not running up the score to 70-0 to impress the pollsters and college playoff committee, they were running up the score to 70-0  because they genuinely hated the other team's coaches, players, alumni and fan base.

[u/Childhood-Paramedic → u/EdFlynn2001]

Fuck Ohio state but "why did you go for 2?" "Because we couldn't go for 3" is such a good line in the lore of our rivalry

... Anddddd now The Game will basically and probably never even matter for playoffs. Yip fucking ee

[u/KosmoKanyon → u/DoctorTheWho]

It's like Georgia competing and winning the SEC championship several times over the past 10 years and it doesn't even seem like it matters now. Where if we were doing this 10-20 years before it would have been all I cared about in college football.

[u/Skates8515 → u/KosmoKanyon]

Not too long ago, all I ever wanted was for Oregon to win one Rose Bowl in my lifetime. I was on the floor in near tears when they beat Oregon State in ‘09 to win the conference.

[u/Slow_D-oh → u/EdFlynn2001]

Absolutely not. I've seen this before and it seems like some kind of revisionist idea.

After wining the '70 National Title Nixon came to Nebraska and presented Devaney and the team with a plaque celebrating their championship. The following year, after beating Bama and winning back to back Championships the Unicam passed a declaration praising the coaches and team on their Championships and funded the construction of a new field house after Devaney requested it.

Osborne went for fucking two because he didn't want to split.

Ask any Bama fan about Bear Bryant and they'll tell you he won 6 National Championships. Same with Woody Hayes and Ohio State.

Oklahoma, Ohio State, Texas, Alabama, USC, Nebraska, Michigan, those teams didn't hang banners, have parades and engrave the year on their stadiums because they thought a National Championship wasnt a big deal.

Nebraska's goals were to beat Oklahoma, win the Big 8, win the Orange bowl, and if they were lucky enough play for, and win a National Championship. Doing the first three made for a very good year. Getting that last goal made it good enough to get a Presidential visit.

[u/Cybotnic-Rebooted → u/EdFlynn2001]

I’m a little bit a of new gen fan (only born in 01). I know that the original goal for the Big 8 was the Orange Bowl (still a bit weird that they switched that around but okay), what would you say the goal for an ACC team at the same time would’ve been?

[u/EdFlynn2001 → u/Cybotnic-Rebooted]

The ACC was an academic league pre 1991 pre FSU. They were a major basketball conference but in football there would be one ranked team per year in the 80s.

[u/billyrubin7765 → u/EdFlynn2001]

GT won a national championship in 1990. Well, they shared it with a Colorado team that had a fifth down victory Missouri that year. GT and Colorado could have played in the Orange Bowl but the bowl had already invited Notre Dame. So Tech went to the Citrus Bowl. Colorado was voted the AP title. GT was voted the UPI coaches bowl champion. Nebraska coach Tom Osborne moved GT up one spot over Colorado for the final poll and GT won by the vote by 1 point. This was the start of the push for the BCS.

[u/tr1cube → u/EdFlynn2001]

For context, ACC members before 1991 were just:

Clemson

Duke

Maryland

North Carolina

NC State

Virginia

Wake Forest

Georgia Tech (post-1979) & South Caronlia (pre-1971)

[u/HideNZeke → u/EdFlynn2001]

Yeah I think to some extent we have to remember that the postseason was always kind of bad. I don't think anyone here is going to come to the conclusion that we need to get rid of the national championship and go back to our roots. People talk about every game mattering, but historically that was fighting for Outback Bowl instead of the TaxSlayer for all the non-bloods. Getting a good seed to win the round of 9-24 is about as prestigious. With bowl games dead, the top 24 becomes an attainable bar for all programs to achieve. 9-3 vs 8-4 is still highly relevant for most programs.The worst side effect is blue bloods always having a back door, but it's still really unlikely that a non top ten team ever wins this.

[u/Wide_right_yes]

Oklahoma State did lose to Iowa State. They were both 1 loss P4 teams. And the BCS had been picking 1 loss non conference champs over 1 loss conference champs since the beginning.

[u/hotsauce126 → u/Wide_right_yes]

The rose colored glasses some people have for the BCS are insane

[u/kralben → u/hotsauce126]

I honestly believe most of them either weren't alive for it or not watching cfb. The current system absolutely has issues but it is head and shoulders better than the BCS.

[u/srs_house → u/kralben]

BCS rankings > CFP rankings

CFP format (pre 24 team expansion) > BCS 2 team format

Idk why there's this jump to criticize or celebrate the entire system instead of rightfully acknowledging that people like specific parts and not just the entire thing.

[u/kralben → u/srs_house]

No, BCS rankings sucked shit.

[u/Vitosi4ek → u/kralben]

The formula also kept changing almost every year to address the previous year's rankings not aligning with the "eye test". What's the point of introducing computers into the equation when you're just going to neuter them if you disagree with their conclusions?

Granted, I only started following the sport in literally the last year of the BCS, but from everything I've read, while it was a definite improvement over the Bowl Coalition/Alliance in that at least the national title was decided on the field, fans were clamoring for a playoff literally the entire time, and especially so after the Boise-Oklahoma Fiesta Bowl.

[u/TheOrangeFutbol → u/Vitosi4ek]

The later years of the BCS were... decent.

But the first half-decade was basically a real-time bug-fixing exercise where they watched in horror as another unforeseen element created rankings that almost defied why the thing was created in the first place… Culminating in that one time the computers bypassed the #1 team in both human polls and created a split National Championship situation anyway.

[u/Vitosi4ek → u/TheOrangeFutbol]

That's exactly my point. All computers were ever meant to be was an "objective" justification to the human biases. When computers disagreed with humans, they were progressively neutered so it wouldn't happen again. By the end, computer polls had so many arbitrary guidelines and restrictions that it defeated the whole point of having them influence the rankings.

So a third of the BCS were these defanged computers, and another third was the Coaches Poll, meaning teams literally had a say in their own rankings. Why exactly is this better than a committee, again?

[u/UCLA_FB_SUCKS → u/hotsauce126]

BCS = Bull Crap System

the playoff is infinitely better; and although i think 24 teams is way too many, this is still so much better than the BCS

[u/srs_house → u/UCLA_FB_SUCKS]

The process for the BCS was more opaque, at least. Yes, there was a human component but it was thinned out a lot more than you have with the current CFP style.

The biggest issue with the CFP rankings is that the committee can never explain their decision making process, and they move teams around in inconsistent ways week to week, so the whole process gets hit with suspicion.

The BCS rankings really aren't a major issue if you applied it to a playoff and had 4 or maybe 8 teams instead of 2. Nobody cares about Bama/OKST being 2 vs 3 if they both get a shot to prove it on the field.

[u/SquadPoopy → u/hotsauce126]

Us real ones remember when the BCS conspired to keep Kansas State out of the championship by using a series of advanced precision EMP blasts.

[u/confused-koala → u/hotsauce126]

Nebraska getting in after getting outright murdered by Colorado (not that it would have mattered against that Miami team, but still). OU getting throttled in the Big 12 ccg by a grown toddler running all over them and getting in over AP #1 USC. Leaving out 13-0 Auburn. You're 100% right, the defenders are insane lol

[u/SpaceghostLos → u/Wide_right_yes]

iirc, they did that with Oklahoma in 2003 and was rectified, I thought.

[u/cyberchaox → u/SpaceghostLos]

There were a few cases.

The first was 2001 with Nebraska, because the formula at the time was insane. This was how they calculated your BCS score at the time: Average of AP rank and Coaches poll rank + average of ranking in the 8 BCS computers, discarding the highest and lowest computer + rank in SOS * 0.04 + number of losses = subtotal (lower total=better), then any team with a win over a team with a top-15 subtotal would subtract a tenth of a point for each spot above 16th that said team was (so beat the #15 team it's -0.1, #14 team is -0.2, etc.) Colorado, who won the Big 12 including beating Nebraska for the division but had two losses to Nebraska's one, came in third by just 0.05 points, meaning that basically any alteration to a part of the formula would be enough to swing it except a single place of SOS rank.

Then came 2003. That wasn't insane at all, it just seemed insane because as much as we hate "poll inertia", our brains can't help but think "you lose, you need to drop". Going into conference championship week, the top 5 were Oklahoma at 12-0, USC at 10-1, LSU at 11-1, Michigan at 10-2, and Ohio State at 10-2, though both human polls had Ohio State down at #7 and instead had Georgia at #5 at 10-2. But the important part is that the #4 team already had two losses and Oklahoma had 0 (and all of the non-AQ teams had at least one loss and weren't really getting looked at.) The computers did narrowly have USC ahead of LSU going into this week, but the SEC Championship Game against Georgia gave enough of an SOS boost to flip these, allowing LSU to pass USC in the overall BCS standings even while they failed to do so in the human polls. So Oklahoma loses, but the computers don't see the context of "this team failed to win their conference". They just see a 12-1 team with a better SOS than the other 1-loss teams. Meanwhile, the humans only move them down to #3, because they're still not going to drop Oklahoma below a 2-loss team. The scoring system from 2001 still hasn't changed yet, so while the human polls said "USC 1, LSU 2, Oklahoma 3", the computer averages said "Oklahoma 1.17, LSU 1.83, USC 2.67". Setting the standings at USC 3.67, LSU 3.83, Oklahoma 4.17. Except like I said, OU had the best SOS. So add in that component and it's OU 4.61, LSU 4.99, USC 5.15. Then all three get a +1 for one loss, and...wouldn't you know it, the only one with a Top 10 win is Oklahoma, over #6 Texas! (They did change the quality win threshold from top 15 to top 10, but it wouldn't really matter since that would just give Oklahoma another -0.5, and also LSU a -0.5 from wins over #12 and #15, while changing nothing for USC). Final tally: Oklahoma is still the #1 team, LSU is #2, USC #3, just like the majority of the individual computers said (oh yeah, there are only seven of them now so it's just drop the lowest instead of drop the highest and lowest). Should be seen as a complete win for the "regular season matters" folks; literally proved that those regular season wins all mattered!

And then, of course, was 2011. This time, the computers weren't to blame; four out of six of them chose Oklahoma State as the #2 team and the other two choosing them as #3, but with all six having Alabama at either #2 or #3 as well, it gave the Cowboys only a narrow margin for the human polls--and by this point, rather than just going by ranking, the score was "points in the human poll/possible points in the human poll". And of course, the "disastrous" outcome of 2003's final poll led to them changing it so that each human poll had the same weight as the computers' average, although both polls individually had slightly more advantage to Bama than the computers had to Oklahoma State--even if another computer had flipped from Bama to OK State, it wouldn't have been enough.

[u/Fresh_Drama_8298]

Agreed, let’s take that championship and award it to LSU and completely forget that game ever happened.

[u/YoBeNice → u/Fresh_Drama_8298]

Finally- a fair, unbiased voice!

[u/TheDalrus → u/Fresh_Drama_8298]

I agree with everything this man said, because it’s exactly what I want to hear!

[u/tBroneShake]

How the fuck was Kansas #8 in 2011

[u/Other-Chemical-6393 → u/tBroneShake]

They weren’t. They went 2-10 that year

[u/HoneyBunchesOfGoats_ → u/Other-Chemical-6393]

It was KSU who was the top 10 team, not KU.

The night OKState hosted KState was when we had the earthquake and got the meme of Herbstreit with his eyes wide open in shock.

[u/Character-Active2208 → u/tBroneShake]

Mangino Mania

Edit: lol holy shit, Charlie Weiss, Kansas HC

I guess Mangino did make AP voters at least think about Kansas enough to rate them when they played OSU, nobody look at the rest of their season

[u/CharlesBoyle799 → u/Character-Active2208]

I don’t know if it was a typo or if OP looked at the wrong season, but Kansas State was the ranked team when we played them. Not Kansas.

[u/AccurateCoat6056 → u/tBroneShake]

They weren’t. It was Kansas State.

[u/beachsandwichen]

Auburn went undefeated in the sec and didn’t make the natty. They had Jason Campbell Cadillac Williams and Ronnie brown not to mention all the studs on their defense. USC beat Oklahoma by 60 in the natty

[u/EdFlynn2001 → u/beachsandwichen]

I remember they counted USC's win over Auburn the year prior. Utah also had a loaded team that year that beat Pitt after winning the Mountain West. .

[u/TheBrightSide_2011 → u/beachsandwichen]

SEC bias!

[u/sho0bydo0by]

Undefeated Auburn? Undefeated Utah?

[u/dukecityvigilante → u/sho0bydo0by]

Undefeated Boise twice, undefeated TCU

[u/UCLA_FB_SUCKS → u/sho0bydo0by]

12-1 USC, 12-1 stanford

[u/sho0bydo0by → u/UCLA_FB_SUCKS]

Might as well include the 1964 Razorbacks while we're at it.

[u/new_accountFC → u/sho0bydo0by]

Shhh. That’s not anti-Alabama talk. Thats not allowed here. Seriously though, OP’s dramatic take is hilarious and outright false with glaring omissions in Oklahoma State’s year

[u/pastimereading]

Yup. Then we went to a 4 team playoff and UCF went undefeated while Bama couldn't even win their division. Bama made it over the undefeated team. So we went to 12 teams. Bama enters conference championship week ranked #9 with Notre Dame #10. Bama loses by 3 touchdowns, looking terrible, stays at 9 while Notre Dame (who didn't play), inexplicably drops to #11 and misses the Playoff. We have a 24 team Playoff now because time and time again, instead of giving spots to teams that earn it on the field, we give them to undeserving Bama teams, thus making the regular season meaningless. People want to complain that the regular season has been made meaningless. It always has been, if you're the tide.

[u/KingJefferey → u/pastimereading]

Your way of turning this into specifically anti bama slander is nothing short of commendable. Kudos from 1 hater to another

[u/ultranoodles → u/KingJefferey]

Not even slander, that requires it to not be true

[u/wareagle2009-20013 → u/pastimereading]

So you are saying if we get rid of Alabama we can restore order?

[u/Adventurous-Edge1719 → u/wareagle2009-20013]

Worth a shot honestly

[u/IronRaptor252 → u/wareagle2009-20013]

I'm open to this experiment.

[u/Geaux13Saints → u/pastimereading]

So the moral of the story is Fuck Bama

[u/deathconsciousness → u/pastimereading]

I fully disagree with the committee's decision to put Bama in over undefeated FSU in 2023. Full stop.

In the 2025 season Bama and Notre Dame had wildly different resumes (ND lost close games to elite opponents but had no great wins - Alabama had great wins but inexplicable losses) that were impossible to compare normally and compounded by the age-old question of whether you should punish a team for making their conference championship.

Notre Dame was also fucked by Duke winning the ACC. The committee was moving chairs to get Miami into the mix as an ACC representative (who also jumped ND that week), not Alabama.

That said I do think Notre Dame (and BYU, for that matter) had legitimate arguments for placing last year over Bama.

[u/Repulsive-Leg-1455 → u/deathconsciousness]

Two things can very well be true at once. Notre Dame may very well have been the worse team in comparison to Miami, but that was not why the Hurricanes made the playoffs last year. The powers at be realized that the ACC would collapse if it missed out on a playoff spot.

[u/Important-Section805 → u/pastimereading]

The irony of this is the more the playoff expands, the higher likelihood and fewer hoops the committee has to jump through to put Alabama in. There's no 2017 Bama in a 2-team championship, and there's no 2025 Bama in a 4-team playoff. If you thought that was bad, wait until 8-4 Bama beats out someone for the 24th spot.

[u/leapdragon → u/Important-Section805]

EXACTLY. It's always that we need to go bigger so X doesn't get left out but now that we're at 24 a 5-7 Bama or LSU will both be in while an 11-1 Hawaii will still be left out

[u/Affectionate-Dot8124]

Never forget that 2011 Michigan State was punished by the BCS for losing by 3 in a Wisconsin rematch in the inaugural Big Ten Championship. The conference championship penalty led to 10-2 Michigan (who MSU had beat in the regular season) to make it in over 10-3 MSU. It was nonsense like this that made it not the BCS but the “BS” poll (I stole that from a friend’s dad, who always referred to it as such).

[u/esports_consultant → u/Affectionate-Dot8124]

All CCG related problems are problems that would have been solved by having 10 team conferences playing 9 game round robins. 

[u/Affectionate-Dot8124 → u/esports_consultant]

For sure, I don’t know why the NCAA was so hellbent on requiring 12 teams to play a conference championship game when only the SEC had one

[u/ConsiderationOld9897]

It ended when the 2004 SEC's undefeated champion was left out of the national championship

[u/TTBHG]

The BCS era was absolutely hated and now everyone acts like shit was so much better back then. I don’t want a 24 team playoff and I want regional conferences and rivalries that matter but the BCS was dogshit.

[u/UCLA_FB_SUCKS → u/TTBHG]

for me personally, i prefer the 24 team playoff over the BCS, and i absolutely hate the 24 team playoff

[u/Koolabaer → u/UCLA_FB_SUCKS]

BCS only worked if there was an undisputed 1 vs 2. Which rarely happened.

[u/LittleLordFuckleroy1]

Wanting to go back to BCS is absolutely stupid.

[u/GoonOfAllGoons]

There was all this talk of crazy behind the scenes things that happened with LSU before 1/9/12, but I think the one that is accurate is that the players had a hard time mentally getting over the fact that they had to play Bama again. 

Before that game this was considered unheard of to have to play someone twice in college, except for conference championships. 

[u/tu-vens-tu-vens → u/GoonOfAllGoons]

Florida beat Florida State in 1996 in a rematch for the national championship.

[u/okiewxchaser]

The death spiral either started in the '70s when a bunch of Pacific Coast schools added two Southwestern schools or 1990 when Arkansas joined the SEC

[u/Reasonable_Cod_487 → u/okiewxchaser]

I regret the USC addition in the 1920s more than the AZ schools in the 70s.

[u/AesarPhreaking]

There should be no committee. There should be no eye test. We should be stack ranking strength of record.

We should not give any consideration to what teams we think are the best. No consideration to conference “access”. No consideration to brand power.

An open source computer model that any person can independently verify the results on. We use Vegas style power ratings to evaluate the quality of any given win or loss, and we weight the record of each team using that output.

Notice I did not say we use Vegas style power ratings to determine which teams are the best and give them the access to the playoffs. We are using it to give the teams that deserve it access.

This means upsets matter, even if after the game is played Vegas would still favor the loser on a neutral field the following day. It’s not about who is the best, it’s who had the most quality season.

[u/wit_T_user_name]

Jesus Christ you guys are being dramatic today.

[u/BIG_DICK_WHITT → u/wit_T_user_name]

“Greg Sankey killed my wife and pissed on her grave.”

[u/mbdtf9 → u/BIG_DICK_WHITT]

He poisoned our water supply, burned our crops, and brought a plague unto our houses!

[u/trust_me_I_reddit → u/mbdtf9]

HE DID?!?!

[u/mbdtf9 → u/trust_me_I_reddit]

No! But are we just going to wait around until he does??

[u/Trojann2 → u/wit_T_user_name]

T…today?

[u/canned-bread-430]

I think people overly sentimentalize the BCS era. The idea that “every game mattered” was always a lie. Maybe it was true for the big name programs, but for most programs, none of their games mattered, because even with a perfect record (2004 Auburn, 2008 Utah, 2009 Boise state) they didn’t stand a chance at a championship.

[u/RyeRyeRyan93 → u/canned-bread-430]

I’m in this camp. I remember a few years ago with the 4 team playoff there was a segment on ESPN for the playoff predictor that if you were in the G5 that you were eliminated before the season even began. Plus I think they also effectively eliminated half of the P5 because they had been bottom dwellers. That left maybe 30 teams that stood a chance out of 120+ teams. How is that fair?

[u/Khorasaurus → u/canned-bread-430]

The big cultural shift happened mid-BCS when winning the Rose/Sugar/etc Bowl went from a big deal on its own to a consolation prize.

There used to be a variety of ways to define success in college football. The national title was the pinnacle, but not the sole focus.

[u/Corgi_Koala → u/canned-bread-430]

The BCS era de facto made any non-AQ conference game irrelevant.

Yeah the regular season mattered more for AQ teams when 1 loss could eliminate you but when half the teams were eliminated before game 1 it's a shit system.

Also the BCS had a ton of controversy. It has its own article on Wikipedia for crying out loud. Almost every single year there was a controversy or team getting screwed if not for the title game than for the other BCS bowls.

[u/Intimidwalls1724]

I'm down for any way we can find to blame Bama for bad things

[u/DiedofSharts]

No flair generic username with hidden account history pinning the downfall of college football on an Alabama loss from 15 years ago, on today of all days, is definitely totally normal. For sure.

[u/onthelevel54e → u/DiedofSharts]

Don't forget the outcome of that game either. Was LSU so down for the second game that they lost in New Orleans by 21?

As far as to how they got in... Don't blame Conan! /s

[u/oxfordcircumstances → u/DiedofSharts]

Russian bot accounts must be back online.

[u/FantasyFI]

The BCS slogan was every game mattered. On December 4, 2011 that all changed.

In what world are we going to put the insanely terrible BCS on a pedestal and pretend it was good. It did the literal opposite of what your very first sentence just said. There were multiple instances of teams going undefeated and not making the BCS.

Heck there are even instances of people going undefeated and not making the 4 team playoff!

The total ignorance of this first sentence lol

No one is complaining about the NFL schedule that it doesn't matter after you win 9 to 11 games. If you ask me, less games mattered back in the BCS era considering playing was pointless for undefeated teams.

I get the hate for the expanded playoff, but if what we care about is "games that matter", all that is shifting is that they matter for teams ranked #20 to #10 vs. previously they only mattered for the top #10. And it still matters for the top teams in the expanded playoff, as it affects their ranking within the playoff itself.

As an FCS fan, I've stated before...a 24 team playoff is absolutely amazing. There would be no hate if they expanded the season to retain conference championship games.

[u/GliscorsFang → u/FantasyFI]

No one is complaining about the NFL schedule that it doesn't matter after you win 9 to 11 games.

People regularly complain about teams resting their starters in the last 2 weeks of the season.

[u/FantasyFI → u/GliscorsFang]

Yes and we all switch to watching the bubble teams. Football fans don't care. "One team" fans might care.

[u/zzyul → u/GliscorsFang]

It will be a cold day in hell before Bama rests their starters against Auburn or Ohio State rests them against Michigan.

[u/RukiMotomiya → u/GliscorsFang]

Honestly, do they? I don't really know of people complaining about it, save maybe the one year the Colts rested their starters instead of going for the perfect season. Also teams really rarely rest their starters 2 weeks, usually it's 1 week.

[u/Lifted_Cube_2413]

Newsflash: college football has always been about the national championship, but when you were introduced to it, you saw that your team didn’t win and have fond memories of bowl games and beating your rivals.

The fiesta bowl was created so the WAC could have a chance at the natty, the BCS was created so the rose bowl wasn’t the national championship and then later the sun bowl. Colorado and Georgia Tech’s split title is controversial because it mattered. BYUs natty is controversial because it mattered. It’s always mattered. 

The college football playoff was created because it mattered. I’m sick of this narrative that the natty never mattered. It always had 

[u/CoincidenceTheorist2 → u/Lifted_Cube_2413]

Of course it always mattered.  But if winning the natty wasn't going to happen in a given year, winning your conference and a new years six bowl also mattered.

[u/UCLA_FB_SUCKS → u/CoincidenceTheorist2]

bro those things still matter

[u/warneagle → u/Lifted_Cube_2413]

This isn’t really true. In the pre-Bowl Alliance era the National Championship was nice but you only had control over it through winning your games. Getting to your conference’s top bowl was the end goal and it was much better because it increased the importance of the regional rivalries that college football depends on for its core appeal.

[u/carasc5]

LSU would have 100% preferred to play OKSt instead of Bama that year

[u/guttata]

sir this is a wendy's

[u/BIG_DICK_WHITT → u/guttata]

The quality of both products has gone down significantly since 2011, you may be on to something.

[u/ScallywagBeowulf]

Didn’t Oklahoma State lose to a 6-6 Iowa State team that year…?

[u/EddieDantes22]

Eight was the number. The ninth best team bitching about it would've been silly. But it should've been eight.

[u/DrSealione]

I’m still bitter about that game 15 years later

[u/Skeptical_Lemur → u/DrSealione]

That game was my high school graduation present. Worst game experience ive ever had in person. Felt like being suffocated the stadium was so tense. People in front of me were Bama fans, and every time they got a first down they'd turn around and shout Roll Tide Roll at us.

[u/thescottula]

The death spiral of college football started November 6th, 1869

[u/jeepfail → u/thescottula]

“This has made a lot of people angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.”

[u/rockonewf]

The death spiral started when the Supreme Court ruled on TV in 1984. It accelerated with SEC expansion and the inauguration of the title game in the early 90s. Accelerated again with the late 00/early 10s wave of realignment. LSU/Bama re-match is merely a footnote along the way compared to those. And yes the 24 team playoff is a disaster for the sport.

[u/Knugles]

I’ve been pissed off about this for 15 years, and I will be until the day I die.

[u/UCLA_FB_SUCKS]

this was the biggest reason for the playoff to remain, but 24 is definitely too many teams

[u/Dry_Advisor8132]

I do, however, have to acknowledge that any of the current playoff systems (even including the faulty BCS) are far superior to what had existed previously. Many years resulted in undefeated teams being spurned in favor of “marketable” darlings (usually Notre Dame) and regional media bias was ridiculous. The 1956 Heisman race highlights the limitations that existed in those days. Paul Hornung led a 2-8 Notre Dame team. 3 TDs and 13 INTs. Yet, he received the award instead of, most notably, Jim Brown and Johnny Majors.

[u/blatantninja]

Unless one team is clearly superior to the other, if you're filling that #2 BCS slot, the bid should always go to the team that hadn't played the #1 team already (and lost).

OSU got hosed.

[u/GMM85]

Where in the fuck are you getting only 9 FBS wins for Alabama?

[u/HuggyBear330]

every game does matter. that didn't change. the fans have changed. the fans have no appreciation for anything but the end result. that's not the ncaa's fault that's the medias fault. i'm a buckeye fan and that texas game hurt my soul. idc if they can lose a game or two i still can't believe we lost to those lanes especially the way we did. the sport is evolving but im not sure how the games don't matter anymore just because you can have a loss or two. i mean what happened to being a real fan?

[u/atlbluedevil → u/HuggyBear330]

Yeah but the individual games matter less in the regular season. That Michigan win over Ohio St in 24 would have ended OSU's chance at a natty before the 12 team expansion. I'm sure that game absolutely mattered to you and Michigan fans the same as ever, but it really didn't matter nearly as much to me and my friends. OSU still won the title in the end

That game is really only memorable to me because of how unimpactful a result of that magnitude ended up being

Will our OU or A&M games matter less to me? Probably not outside of the extra happiness of potentially ruining their seasons with one game. Think the rest of the regular season loses some luster though

If you think that the additional playoff games make up for that, more power to you.

I think CFB was truly special and unique where I can easly remember plenty of regular season games (both good and bad) for Texas - much harder to try and remember that level of impactful regular season games for my Falcons

Edit: Did a bad job with this, but the main thing I was trying to hit was:

I can remember plenty of great regular season games for other teams in CFB - I couldn't do that at all for the NFL. I'll still adore Texas, I really just think my investment in the rest of the sport is going to wane when the individual game results just matter less

[u/Orbital2 → u/atlbluedevil]

While I think this is true, the issue that was popping up was the subject of this original thread.

"Every game" started to only matter for certain programs and not others. Every game did not matter in 2011 for Alabama the way that it did for Oklahoma State. We had reached a point where there was a hierarchy that reinforced itself in terms of who got preferential treatment (Hint: It was always Bama or the SEC team of choice that absolutely could not be left out)

Even in the 4 team playoff sometimes Ohio State would get a second chance, sometimes we would get left out for teams that basically had the same resume.

[u/atlbluedevil → u/Orbital2]

Yeah thats fair, think I thought I was in a different thread with the comment I responded to

I do think brands (with Saban era of Alabama being the paramount brand) got a ton of breaks during the BCS era, but it didn't start in 2011. In 98, #3 Kansas St got passed up by the BCS bowls for yall and a 2 loss Florida team. Similar with Auburn missing out in 04 to USC and OU

I think 2011 was a combo of Bama having the brand value - and the biggest issue I've seen with human voters over the course of my fandom, focusing on the quality of loss/losses instead of the overall body of work.

[u/HoustonTrashcans → u/atlbluedevil]

Yeah this year's game against OU obviously sucked, but my initial thought was "now we can only afford like 2 more losses this year". Whereas during the BCS era I would think "there goes our chance at a national championship".

The regular season really was special before the playoffs (or even at 4 teams). Now CFB loses that bit of magic, so all the excitement will come in the playoffs.

[u/theduder3210 → u/HuggyBear330]

| every game does matter. that didn’t change.

I guess that you might be too young to remember, but during that point of the BCS’ 2-team title game existence, it was claimed that “Every regular season game is now a playoff game too.” So theoretically, Bama was eliminated in these “playoffs” after losing that regular season so-called Game of the Century—but then lots of lobbying by Saban and ESPN (to boost interest in having a “Rematch of the Century,” and even more so to squeeze the small TV market Oklahoma State out of the picture) quickly brought an end to every-game-is-a-playoff trope. And, yes, since then every game certainly does not matter any more; it evidently didn’t even matter back then.

[u/Tripptt69]

FSU got screwed over by the 4 team playoff a few years ago..to alabama.

[u/beornn2 → u/Tripptt69]

Respectfully, 1993 happened where FSU was voted champion over a team with the same record that literally beat them head to head the same year.

Maybe that was karma coming back around.

[u/Suspicious-Screen-43 → u/Tripptt69]

I'd argue Georgia was the bigger snub that season

[u/GreatBadGuy]

Private Equity taking over this country was the death spiral for everything.

[u/Lopsided_Class_4980]

That was also the time we see espn signing with sec. espn still try to convince people there's no bias. 

[u/jeffhartleroad]

It's turned into college basketball and it's only going to get worse. Every week used to matter in cfb. Now its wake me up when the playoffs are here.

[u/Hijakkr → u/jeffhartleroad]

If only it actually turned into college basketball's format. Giving all of the mid-majors a berth would actually make the 24-team playoff the correct move.

[u/ArterialVotives]

So, have you stopped watching?

[u/BigFoot423205]

We didn’t finish 3rd in the SEC for starters

[u/mjjenki → u/BigFoot423205]

He conveniently left out the part about OSU losing to Iowa State. Tough look