Avid FCS fans: Enlighten me about the 24-team playoff and its effects on the regular season

[u/Kh3hhdds343]

Is that playoff format preferred in FCS? Does the regular season feel like it matters? Are you happy or displeased that the FBS is using a similar playoff model? Any other thoughts?

I'm not requesting answers from people who watch a handful of FCS games. I'm talking about fans who watch the FCS season from start to finish, like most of us do with the FBS.

[u/Rishik01]

Just worth adding their format is 10 conference champions plus 14 at larges not 1 G6 spot plus 23 at larges like the proposed format for FBS

[u/Public_Laugh6746 → u/Rishik01]

FCS regular season feels way more alive because so many teams have a shot at those at large bids. every game in october and november you see bubble teams fighting for their life. the 10 autobids keep conference races interesting even for smaller leagues

one thing i miss is the old 16 team bracket though, the bye week for top 8 seeds in the 24 team format changes the rhythm a bit. still prefer it over what FBS is doing with guaranteeing spots to certain conferences

[u/TigerWave01 → u/Public_Laugh6746]

See, I do kinda wish FBS would’ve adopted that version of the FCS playoffs. Every conference should still get auto bids (unlikely ik) with 6 at-large bids. It still allows every conference in while protecting some sense of urgency about who can sneak in the at large spot. Also, while seeds 1-4 get a bye under the 12 team model, they now play a G6 team instead. More likely than not it’ll be a tune-up for more difficult competition, but it also adds intrigue for the one day, someday, that an upset occurs. Ofc, though, that wouldn’t maximize ratings so it’s a nonstarter

[u/nightowl1135 → u/Rishik01]

Probably my biggest gripe isn’t 24… It’s 23 at larges and one G6 spot.

I’d prefer 10 conference champs and 14 at large spots. And then tell ND (and all independents) to fuck off or join a conference.

[u/Rishik01 → u/nightowl1135]

Eeexactly the 10 CCs has a far better argument for creating more meaningful games than 23 at larges

[u/sonheungwin → u/nightowl1135]

ND can just fight for an at large every year, they just can't complain if they don't make it.

[u/DickBottalico → u/nightowl1135]

guy’s team flies from Oregon to play in New Brunswick NJ and thinks even larger conferences are the answer

[u/Mean-Masterpiece-357 → u/DickBottalico]

Why would larger conferences be incentivized? Wouldn’t smaller conferences be more appealing in a world where the champ got an autobid

[u/nightowl1135 → u/DickBottalico]

Brother. Don’t know what sport you think we’re talking about but I’m gonna let you in on a little secret…. All roads lead to larger conferences. Lol.

That ship sailed years ago. Also. Nothing to do with what I said.

All conference champions get an autobid with 14 at large spots > 23 at large spots and 1 G6 spot.

[u/tdpdcpa → u/nightowl1135]

I actually don’t think all roads lead to larger conferences.

I think all roads lead to conference compositions that provide the best football game inventory for broadcasters.

Bigger isn’t always better in that sense.

[u/nightowl1135 → u/tdpdcpa]

“All roads lead to conference compositions that provide best football game inventory for broadcasters.”

Yeah, thats a longer way of saying larger conferences.

The bigger the inventory, the better …from the perspective of the person selling the inventory.

[u/tdpdcpa → u/nightowl1135]

Well, I’ll ask this:

Is the Big 10, as a media brand, stronger if you don’t have to air any Rutgers or Maryland games?

I think so; you don’t have to find 9 conference games for them to play.

That means 9 more conference games between stronger brands to sell.

Smaller is better there.

[u/titusnick270 → u/tdpdcpa]

They aren’t (big ten stronger). We added those teams for the region lol.

[u/OnwardSoldierx → u/nightowl1135]

If u have 14 at larges. Then you don't need to be in a conference lol

[u/StevvieV → u/nightowl1135]

The 10 conference champion and 14 at-large spots basically guarantee the Big Ten and SEC at least 12 teams a year but somehow that isn't enough. They would get even more if the ACC and Big 12 both don't send 3 teams a year which is probably on the high side to begin with

[u/iikillerpenguin → u/nightowl1135]

If the G6 wants to be added to conference champs they need to stop getting paid and play more p4 games. James Madison is getting paid 1.5 million to play in Maryland... Maryland...

The G6 would never agree to play P4 teams without getting paid.

[u/CTeam19 → u/iikillerpenguin]

The money is so Maryland doesn't have to do a home-n-home and travel to James Madison. Is Georgia traveling to G5 stadiums, or are they buying out that part of it when they schedule them?

[u/iikillerpenguin → u/CTeam19]

G6 complaining just doesn't make sense. Think of this as a business stand point. G6 teams invest 20-100x less in football but think they deserve an automatic piece of the pie...

If there was money to be made by going to G6 schools to play they would... just on tickets not being sold would lose them 20+ million. JMU and Boise have smaller stadiums than 50+ high schools...

Georgia makes more money filling its box seats than JMU makes for all 25,000 tickets they might sell.

[u/CTeam19 → u/iikillerpenguin]

Well they are in the FBS.

[u/iikillerpenguin → u/CTeam19]

And they can join bowl games to their heart desires with oversight from the NCAA. The CFP is not part of the NCAA.

Maybe some of these G6 teams should bully the FCS or start paying more to have a say. Even if a G6 team did win a playoff game it's unfair that they pay nothing to get possible awards.

[u/cathny → u/Rishik01]

Yeah it’s hard to compare when our new format is basically just a way to shoehorn in 4+ loss SEC and big10 teams. If we wanted to do it we should’ve atleast copied the FCS format

[u/Finn_Ajerkit → u/cathny]

Hey, the current FCS even gets 7-5 MVC teams in!

[u/CTeam19 → u/Finn_Ajerkit]

I mean the MVC also has a ridiculous win record in the non-con that would even put peak SEC to shame:

• In the 2018 playoffs they had 4 teams and only lost to a non-MVC team once(UNI lost to James Madison) and won a National Title.

• In 2016 playoffs James Madison had to play the MVC in back-to-back games in the semi-Finals and Finals.

• In 2015 playoffs out of the 5 schools, 2 were eliminated by other MVC schools and 1 won the National Title

• In 2014 playoffs, 2 MVC schools won their first round games and got beat in the second round by 2 other MVC schools and those MVC schools were in the Championship game.

And it has been awhile since I looked but I think the conference basically only loses to a small group of teams(James Madison, Eastern Washington, Montana, Montana State, etc) in the playoffs.

[u/Muffinnnnnnn → u/Rishik01]

And this is the main reason why this format is complete dogshit and ruins the sport. Not only do those conference champions get in in the FCS format, but it also "only" has 14 at larges so you still have some level of urgency in the regular season and won't see 8-4 teams in.

[u/taita25 → u/Muffinnnnnnn]

You absolutely see 8-4 teams in the fcs playoffs

[u/Muffinnnnnnn → u/taita25]

You're correct, and even the odd 7-5 team if I'm not mistaken. The difference is that a lot of FCS teams have one or more FBS losses that don't get held against them.

I'm basing this off of the fact that there haven't been 8-4 teams that would get in based on the CFP Rankings in the 12-team era, and I just went back by hand and found that there were only 2 years total since 2014 (12 seasons) where one 8-4 team gets in in a 24-team world with 10 conference champs.

[u/Dirtfan69 → u/taita25]

Well FCS just consistently started playing 12 games a year this year, most years was 11. But yes, 7-4 fcs teams from the MVFC and Big Sky routinely got in (granted one of those losses usually are buy games)

[u/tdpdcpa → u/Dirtfan69]

North Dakota made it at 7-5 last year.

[u/Dirtfan69 → u/tdpdcpa]

FCS had a weird scheduling quirk where depending on Labor Day, they’d play 11 or 12 games. Last year was an early Labor Day that allowed 12 games. Also, FCS definitely doesn’t have 68 “power” teams like FBS does, much less. So it gives more room for error for MVFC and Big Sky teams

[u/ComplexBeyond6083 → u/Rishik01]

This is the difference that makes all the difference.

[u/Euphoric_Dot3443 → u/Rishik01]

We should really split divisions again

[u/tomdawg0022 → u/Rishik01]

Just worth adding their format is 10 conference champions plus 14 at larges

11 and 13. Would be 13 and 11 but the SWAC and MEAC champs opt for the Celebration Bowl.

Champs:

• Big Sky
• CAA
• Ivy
• Missouri Valley
• Northeast
• Ohio Valley
• Patriot
• Pioneer
• SoCon
• Southland
• UAC

MVFC had 5 of the 13 at-larges, the CAA/Big Sky/Southland had 2 each

[u/Rishik01 → u/tomdawg0022]

Ah! My bad. Completely forgot the Ivys were participating last year

[u/HeyJude21 → u/Rishik01]

Not having 10 conference champs in the current proposal is criminal. Whats the point of it?

[u/Greedygiddy8 → u/Rishik01]

I’m shocked that people on this sub are mad about a 24 team playoff when they’ve been bitching for one for the past 2 years, “that March madness feel” what a joke. Should’ve stayed at 12

[u/damnyoutuesday]

The regular season definitely matters, because losses fuck your seeding. FCS having every game through the semifinals on campus makes having a top-2 seed a premium, because you get home field advantage.

And it matters for the NEC and Pioneer League because their champions get autobids. Every conference gets an autobid, which is what FBS is fucking up.

Montana State vs Montana is played last week of the year, and it never doesn't matter. I can't fathom the people suggesting FBS teams should rest their starters for rivalry week. We want to beat them no matter what happens.

Personally I want FBS to do 24 but with conference autobids for all 10 conferences, with campus games through the semis. The new FBS format is a bastardized version that sucks

[u/clepsuoduuva → u/damnyoutuesday]

This is how it should be for fbs.  We just know it won't.  Too much money going to the G6 schools.  They might keep their talent.  

[u/Kiaaawey]

I mean I don’t anymore for obvious reasons but when I did, yes, I cared a lot. Getting the first round bye was hugely important for the top 8 teams. But at the same rate a Cinderella run a la Illinois State a few years ago made it worth it to tune in top bottom for the playoffs

I’m happy with it. The fact is that there is good football outside of the top 12 teams (or even worse for the way it was - the 12 teams that get in because of the way it was set up before, acknowledging full well that we were the benefactor of it last year though I still think we should’ve been over Tulane). I genuinely think the 24th best team in the country can compete with the best team in the country if the lightning strikes at the right moment and I like that they get a chance to prove it on the field and not in a spreadsheet or based on vibes. Too many good teams haven’t been given a shot to prove it on the field in recent memory (like Notre Dame last year, or FSU in the 4 team year) in a way that always rubbed me wrong

[u/AUCE05 → u/Kiaaawey]

It is more than that. Everyone pretends the bowls matter, but they don't. The lower teams in the basketball tournament will never win the title, but it is a big deal to those programs and we all love watching those early rounds. 24 teams allows you to have a early season injury, get healed and make some noise. The people who don't like it are the ones who just love to complain.

[u/Kiaaawey → u/AUCE05]

100% agree. My dogshit college hoops team sucks and has for 99% of the time I’ve gotten into it. The one time we made March Madness idk if I’ve ever seen the school that electric. The 12-5 upset helped but we got smoked by Duke and honestly we were all just so happy to have even been there. I feel the same way about us making the CFP last year. That was infinitely cooler than some random bowl game

[u/reddit-canes → u/Kiaaawey]

This is awesome. 

[u/jamnewton22 → u/AUCE05]

I’m kinda looking forward to the new 24 team playoff but I’m also sad that means conference title games will be ending after this year. That just makes me sad. I don’t like things I enjoy not existing anymore. I understand we will all just have to get used to not having them but it still sucks. (Yes, I understand for most of college football’s history conference title games did not exist so spare me). Why even have conferences anymore? Whats the point? Besides money.

[u/Kiaaawey → u/jamnewton22]

I’m glad conference tournaments aren’t in the plans to axe for hoops at least because those to me are some of the most electrifying parts of college sports

[u/emaddy2109 → u/AUCE05]

Watching Penn State pound A&M in the first round a few years ago is one of my favorite college basketball moments.  

[u/Bwhitt1 → u/AUCE05]

Complain or just have a different opinion then you?

[u/Intelligent_Dress347 → u/AUCE05]

Lmao.

[u/Mundane_String5998 → u/Kiaaawey]

An 8-4 P4 team being left out of the 12 team playoff is not because of a spreadsheet or vibes, rather they lost 4 fuckin games. 

[u/Kiaaawey → u/Mundane_String5998]

I feel like you’re arguing a point I didn’t make though. 10-2 Notre Dame didn’t make it in last year, not 8-4 Notre Dame

[u/on_reddit8091 → u/Kiaaawey]

Then 16 would do the trick. 24 is just too big. 

[u/SucculentCrablegMeal → u/on_reddit8091]

It's also completely fine that ND didn't make it. 12 already does the trick.

[u/on_reddit8091 → u/SucculentCrablegMeal]

I think I'm OK with 12, but I think 16 feels like a good compromise. Get rid of the goofy byes that no one really seems to want.

[u/AlphaBravo95 → u/Kiaaawey]

But my thing is you mentioned 2 specific examples. Florida state who was ranked 5 in cfp and notre dame who was 13. I bet you don’t feel sorry for the 13th ranked team from 2023 because you in no way thought they could win it all at the time. Now we move back to 24 and whoever will be ranked 25 will say they didn’t get a chance to “prove it on the field”. Do we feel sorry for whoever will be ranked 24th this year for not getting to prove it? Teams get a whole season to prove it on the field. That’s the point of the season. If not then we might as well just expand the playoffs to 138 teams and have a 6 week tune up period. Notre dame could have proved it when they played the only ranked teams in their season and they didn’t prove anything and that’s why they got left out

[u/Kiaaawey → u/AlphaBravo95]

I see what you’re saying and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to disagree with me, but 24 was always my number specifically because I saw and liked the way it went in the FCS

[u/Less_Likely → u/Kiaaawey]

Illinois State was last year.

[u/Greedygiddy8 → u/Kiaaawey]

I’m shocked that people on this sub are mad about a 24 team playoff when they’ve been bitching for one for the past 2 years, “that March madness feel” what a joke. Should’ve stayed at 12

[u/wsteelerfan7 → u/Greedygiddy8]

Well, for starters, March Madness isn't 67 at-larges plus 1 mid-major conference

[u/Greedygiddy8 → u/wsteelerfan7]

It’s going to be a make a wish playoff

[u/wsteelerfan7 → u/Greedygiddy8]

Do you understand that vs last year's playoff, adding all conferences just adds 4 more? And that more people watched JMU, North Texas, and Tulane at the end of the year because they were in the playoff picture and therefore the games were more meaningful?

[u/wsteelerfan7 → u/Greedygiddy8]

I'm gonna make a wish for a better playoff

[u/YoungCri → u/Greedygiddy8]

This sub bitches about everything

[u/Intelligent_Dress347 → u/Kiaaawey]

Are you referring to the FSU team that got beat 63-3?

[u/DwayneBaconStan → u/Intelligent_Dress347]

The whole team opted out of the bowl game essentially, not a good example abd is meaningless

[u/Intelligent_Dress347 → u/DwayneBaconStan]

Wasn’t meaningless to one team apparently. 

[u/Intelligent_Dress347 → u/[deleted]]

A 63-3 results matters for somebody, I’ll tell you that much. 

Ask Norvell how he feels about it now. 

[u/Nervous_Metal_9445]

D3 fan (same format) I'm fine with the FBS as long as EVERY conference Champ gets in. What makes it good is that everyone has something they are fighting for and that you know that even if your conference sucks (can't compete with the others) you can say we made it to the playoffs.

Cinderella runs will happen and the regular season is very important especially in the Northwest Conference where your conference only gets 1 bid into the thing.

[u/ILikeTuwtles1991]

Considering that every conference champ gets an auto bid that a backroom of people can't kick out because they say so, yeah it's pretty good.

Will every FBS conference champ get an auto bid in the Dr. Pepper ESPN Invitational presented by DraftKings? Doubtful.

[u/RadagastTheWhite]

It’s fun and you get a lot of interesting matchups in the playoffs that would never happen in the regular season. Of course the regular season still matters. You want to win your conference, beat your rivals, and play well enough to earn a first round buy and second round home game.

[u/Tufoguy]

Yeah the regular season matters

• Puts major importance on your conference games because of the one AQ spot (even when you have co-champions)

• Your non-con FCS games are really important for your conference as a whole because of your own resume and your conference as a whole in determining the amount of at-large spots your conference gets.

• Beating your rivals is still a big thing. Even better when they have playoff implications or they are just flat out for the conference title.

• Every loss puts you closer to missing the playoffs. You only have 2 FCS losses until you're in the bubble in most years. There are always teams that have 3 FCS losses that miss the playoffs

• The NCAA has the perfect number. They shouldn't (and I don't expect them to) change the format.

Now, FBS won't have an AQ spot for all conferences so the comparison really can't happen. I have to see what the format is before I can truly judge it.

But the best thing about the 94 NCAA tournaments is that there's a path of entry for everyone. Some more narrow than others but they've created a path. FBS/I-A leadership has always done the opposite from the beginning. Never made sense to me but I know they are looking out for themselves instead of the sport as a whole

[u/SayNoToCargoShorts → u/Tufoguy]

until *you’re on the bubble

There *are always teams

[u/LarryGoldwater]

It has made NAU Lumberjack football potentially more interesting, one day.

[u/Jub1982]

I don’t think it watered down the regular season at all. Home playoff games are a very big deal. Having a first round bye is a very big deal. I would prefer every conference gets their champion in the playoff though. I also hope all the games except the championship and maybe semifinals are played at the lower seed.

[u/ShweatyPalmsh]

The shit version espn wants isn’t even remotely close to the FCS playoff. The FCS playoff rewards all of the conference champions which makes for exciting finishes to the season. Also the at large spots make every game matter and seeding especially matters. The current playoff as proposed honestly makes me wonder why conferences even matter If we’re just gonna have a bunch of at larges picked in secret by a bunch of people who don’t watch the games and care about money more than the actual sport itself.

[u/etsuandpurdue3]

Doesn't impact regular season at all. Still stress that if you do not win you will not make it in.

[u/AruarianGroove]

It is just sooo long. And my team hardly has a shot at it as is. The end of season rivalry game with UR kinda caps the season most of the time.

[u/jtezus]

They are impossible to compare even though the number of teams are the same. Tired of people pointing at the FCS as justification when the differences heavily outweigh the similarities.

[u/MrDuckly → u/jtezus]

Please, explain how this comparison is impossible.

[u/tdpdcpa → u/MrDuckly]

The FCS affords an automatic bid to every conference champion. From the mighty Missouri Valley, to the non-scholarship Pioneer Football League.

This means that while the best teams from great conferences fight for those last at-large spots, many final games of the regular season are effectively de facto play-in games, or “bid thief” opportunities. This gives meaning to games at all levels of FCS and across the country. The FBS won’t have this because there are only autobids for the top conferences and one G6 spot.

The fact that the higher seed hosts all the way through the semifinals, and the top 8 seeds get byes, are enormous stakes and make seeding very important. The difference between 8 and 9, 4 and 5, and 2 and 3 are enormous for byes and hosting. In FBS, only the first two rounds are at campus sites, so only 8 vs 9 really matters.

There are no conference title games (which is the same) so the regular season matters. That one loss means you need that team to lose twice to someone else if you want an autobid, which are huge stakes, especially in the lesser conferences.

Those are the key differences, to me.

[u/sonheungwin → u/tdpdcpa]

People call it bid thief, but there's something magical about a team that comes together just in time.

[u/MrDuckly → u/tdpdcpa]

Mostly being pedantic since you said it was impossible but then proceeded to lay out a very logical comparison lol.

But this is probably the most cogent take I've seen yet. I don't disagree at all, but I think we're comparing something in its infancy to something in its ideal state.

2027, maybe through 2030 even, is gonna be messy for FBS. But I figure that over time, people will learn and adjust so that we end up much closer to that ideal state we're really wanting. I would even argue that's exactly what's been happening for the entire lifetime of CFP, and this is just the next step.

[u/tdpdcpa → u/MrDuckly]

I guess my overall point is the key features in what make the FCS playoff so great are still missing from the CFP.

1. Automatic bids for all conference champions,

2. Higher seed hosts all the way through the Semifinals.

For example, last year, Kennesaw State beat Jacksonville State for the CUSA title. It meant a lot for Kennesaw State but meant very little in the national picture because it had no playoff implications. That doesn’t change in a 24-team playoff.

Same with Indiana and Ohio State in the Big 10 title game. Both teams were reasonably assured a first round bye to a neutral site bowl game. That doesn’t really change either.

Consider that against Tennessee Tech vs Tennessee-Martin in the last week of the regular season. Tennessee Tech had already earned an at-large, at least, but Tennessee-Martin could steal the automatic bid with a win, and likely bounce one of the bubble teams. People all of a sudden cared about who won the OVC-Big South.

Or last year’s regular season Brawl of the Wild, which Montana State won to earn the #1 seed and assure themselves of a home semifinal. Which came in handy when Montana came back to Bozeman and Montana State won again to punch their ticket to Nashville.

[u/MrDuckly → u/tdpdcpa]

No argument here, fully agree that conference champs should be automatic.

[u/Ok-Can-4258]

I won't partake in fighting against the 24 team format. That feels like a waste of energy. But I would like to see marquee (the ones I like) bowl games be added to the new games in the playoff format. Like at least give me a poptart bowl or dukes mayo bowl first round. I get that it would really only be moving the name over but I would still like to see it

[u/MidlandsBraves → u/Ok-Can-4258]

On campus games till the semis is the only way to go.

[u/Ok-Can-4258 → u/MidlandsBraves]

Oh absolutely on campus for sure. Just pull that giant ass toaster to wherever it is that year

[u/Vsaws → u/Ok-Can-4258]

Yea just have them present it at whatever field the qualifying team is at for the lesser bowls and the major ones like the rose and sugar bowl can keep theirs where they are for the prestige or whatever. They could make it work but I'm not holding my breath that they will.

[u/tSignet → u/Ok-Can-4258]

First round? Poptarts Bowl for the championship!

[u/Ok-Can-4258 → u/tSignet]

I'll allow it

[u/jamnewton22 → u/Ok-Can-4258]

Nooooooo. Less bowls more campus playoff games what are we doing???

[u/reno1441 → u/Ok-Can-4258]

They should rotate in historic but not major bowls game in for the 15-18 and 16-17 matchup. Want a home game, gotta earn it.

Make it the Sun Bowl and Citrus Bowl one year, Pop-Tarts and Independence the next, etc.

[u/asujch]

Your goal was to win conference and secure a bye in the first round. What would make 24 in the FBS be completely worth it is 12 conferences of 12. You get 12 conference winners and 12 at large.

BCS rank every team and take the aggregate of the conference to give byes to the top 8 conference champs.

I still think 24 is too many, 16 would be my preference, because I want to preserve conference championship weekend.

[u/clepsuoduuva]

From someone who has watched nothing of fcs.  Why don't you watch and see for yourself.  

[u/tdpdcpa]

It’s magical, and cool, and it also shortens the bubble by a spot.

But the games are also fun. The stakes are high for both teams. Add in that it tends to align to Rivalry Week and it’s college football at its finest.

[u/Windows_66]

We actually have something to play for, but that's only because of the FCS format, which FBS is not adopting.

[u/SucculentCrablegMeal]

The format in the FCS is completely different.

[u/Cerebral_1]

Still highly competitive with pressure to win out in order to make the CCG (especially for top conferences like Big Sky), with 1-2 mulligans permitted IIRC.

[u/vassago77379]

There is nothing more worthless than NCAA basketball regular season. It literally means nothing since every conference has its own tourney and that basically determines who makes the big tournament. They just did the same to college football. College football was one of the last sports where the regular season mattered and was worth watching. Baseball added so many games it is worthless until September, NBA only matters the second half of the season, college basketball doesn't matter AT ALL. And bow college football. Get 3 or 4 losses? No biggie, if you are power 4 you still make the tourney.

[u/Windows_66 → u/vassago77379]

OP had a very specific question, and that's a lot of text to not answer it.