Canada adding new express entry points for immigrants in ‘high-wage’ jobs

[u/feb914]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/article/canada-adding-new-express-entry-points-for-immigrants-in-high-wage-jobs/

[u/AutoModerator]

This is a reminder to read the rules before posting in this subreddit.

1. Headline titles should be changed only when the original headline is unclear
2. Be respectful.
3. Keep submissions and comments substantive.
4. Avoid direct advocacy.
5. Link submissions must be about Canadian politics and recent.
6. Post only one news article per story. (with one exception)
7. Replies to removed comments or removal notices will be removed without notice, at the discretion of the moderators.
8. Downvoting posts or comments, along with urging others to downvote, is not allowed in this subreddit. Bans will be given on the first offence.
9. Do not copy & paste the entire content of articles in comments. If you want to read the contents of a paywalled article, please consider supporting the media outlet.

Please message the moderators if you wish to discuss a removal. Do not reply to the removal notice in-thread, you will not receive a response and your comment will be removed. Thanks.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Last-Wolverine7265]

PM Carney has a plan....we should trust his cabinet members making these decisions. As an economic genuis he can see what we don't see...

[u/qwertyquizzer → u/Last-Wolverine7265]

Generally speaking I like Carney and his performance so far. But this how the last Liberal government leader got turfed. Paying too much attention to what business wants and not enough to the workers of the nation. I didn't think we had sufficient high paying jobs for those who live and are educated here.

[u/Hopegodfcn]

I get the frustration, but I think a lot of people are missing the bigger picture. Right now, bringing in skilled people who already work here is one of the few growth levers Canada has left. Look at the alternatives:

1. Resources. We have oil, timber, natural gas, you name it. But we don't have the capacity to produce, process and export much more of it quickly. Pipelines, ports and plants take years to build.

2. Borrowing. Canada is not the US. The US can borrow its way out of trouble because the whole world runs on the dollar. Almost nobody else gets that deal. Debt-fuelled growth only goes so far, and we already carry a lot of debt. Look at France and Greece to see how much damage debt can do to a country.

3. Foreign investment. Investors come when they expect growth. Our biggest advantage was being right next to the single most valuable market in the world, and the trade turbulence with the US has put that in doubt. Even if things improve, most people don't expect the relationship to go back to what it was. The hurt is done, so investment alone won't carry us.

4. That leaves immigration. The new rules target people already working here or holding a job offer. People applying for these higher-paying jobs are usually well educated and bring real savings (assuming no fraud). They spend, they invest, and that creates more jobs. Yes, there are side effects, but they're far more manageable than the consequences of the options above. The key is pace: it has to be carefully managed so we don't push up inflation or overload housing and public services again.

Where I do agree with the backlash: we should have already cut back on temporary workers filling basic and entry-level jobs. Those jobs are the first step for young people and for residents without specialized skills (nothing wrong with that). Flooding that segment destroys their safety net.

[u/hooka_hooka → u/Hopegodfcn]

That isn’t how this will be used

[u/Apolloshot]

Let me get this straight. “High wage” jobs are ones that pay 1.3x the national medium — which is roughly 60k.

So if you’re willing to pay a foreign worker just 60k a year, you can skip the LIMA process entirely and just hire a foreign worker directly into your firm?

Whelp, say goodbye to literally any job in this country that pays more than 60k!

[u/clow222 → u/Apolloshot]

This is exactly how I understand it... No Canadian company or government, will pay 100k salaries, when they can outsource that job to an Indian who will be happy to take 60k

[u/random_question4123 → u/clow222]

And also bring in their families and have lots of children. This is the goal.

[u/MyDearDapple → u/random_question4123]

…and vote Conservative.

[u/Fabiii1309 → u/Apolloshot]

No, as I understand it's even worse. It's not actually the company that is paying the money. They just need to hire someone in an occupation that has a median wage higher than 60k * 1.3. Let me explain:

Company X wants to higher a software engineer. Software engineers median wage is about 60k*1.5. However, the company DOES NOT need to pay said amount. They can pay that person minimum wage - well maybe minimum wage gets flagged - but they could pay something < 60k*1.5. There is nothing legally stopping them.

This problem is created because high-wage is based on occupation and not actual salary paid. It's really disheartening.

[u/winterscherries → u/Apolloshot]

No.

First, EE is not a work permit, it's to rank applicants for PR. Second, EE is also a pool, you don't get a free pass by being in a high earning classification either. Third, EE being tilted towards high earning doesn't increase the pool size, it advantages some in the pool in high earning classification over others in the pool in lower earning classification. And lastly, anyone who is foreign will have a hard time getting points in Canadian education, work, etc. whereas their competition likely do, so they don't have an easy path to PR.

[u/northdancer]

Remember what PSPP said. They are not that stupid. They know what they are doing, and they are doing it with intention.

[u/Separate_Football914]

“The government also plans to remove the requirement for an employer to prove they can’t find a qualified Canadian for those jobs.”

So…… how is it a good thing for Canadian? Suddenly, for these high-wage jobs, you will have to compete worldwide for post next door. And calling engineering as an example of these high wage job is… funny. Sure, senior position are high wage, but the lower position are pretty much a remake of the hunger game.

[u/JeNiqueTaMere → u/Separate_Football914]

It's a good thing for employers.

Remember we have a banker in charge

[u/RhubarbUpper → u/Separate_Football914]

They're doing the same thing in the trades, there's effectively no more grand fathering (no apprenticeship, waive the union entrance fee with significant experience). Guys that are trade vets are being told to go through the apprenticeship program no exceptions. Not a lot of young guys want to work twice as hard as the guy next to them getting quite literally twice their pay.

[u/Neat-Air-8305 → u/Separate_Football914]

This will be carney downfall if it is widespread

[u/Jaded_Celery_451 → u/Neat-Air-8305]

If this is a prelude to the complete abolition of the TFW program then it might not be.

[u/Vvvvroskiiii → u/Jaded_Celery_451]

How so?

[u/Jaded_Celery_451 → u/Vvvvroskiiii]

The original argument for the TFW program was to have the ability to hire highly skilled professionals for important but temporary work. Say, a nuclear power plant construction specialist. They don't necessarily want to live here permanently, but and we may not have sufficient domestic talent, and we want to have the ability to let them live and work here to get that work done. These are people with high demand for their skills and they have negotiating power, so they wouldn't be especially prone to exploitation by employers.

Then it was used for seasonal agricultural work, which immediately weakened that premise. Then somehow Tim Hortons was qualifying for the program with made it an absurd farce - little more than a way for large companies to bypass the local labour market.

I have argued for a while now that the TFW program should be scrapped, and if the original purpose is still required then put in another program to fulfill that need.

That doesn't really appear to be happening here based on the rules that we're seeing so none of this is really relevant and I apologize for making you read all this.

[u/JeNiqueTaMere → u/Jaded_Celery_451]

"We eliminated the temporary foreign worker program by turning it into a permanent foreign worker program"

[u/ThePhatEskimo → u/Separate_Football914]

They also said high wage earners are making 60k. There's no way shape or form that 60k is high wage. You'd struggle to live in Toronto making 60k

[u/deeplearner- → u/Separate_Football914]

I think the goal might be to get big companies to nearshore jobs in Canada given American policy changes with OPT, H1B etc. I actually know a person who didn’t make it in the H1B lottery for a FAANG company and got transferred to Vancouver and liked it enough to want to stay permanently.

[u/ILikeWhyteGirlz → u/Separate_Football914]

Probably because the government knows they are putting fake ads up to pretend they were finding Canadians anyway, so why waste time looking at the fraud when you can just remove it entirely?

[u/LaserRunRaccoon → u/Separate_Football914]

It's good for GDP. Great, even. If you have wealth and believe in attracting capital investments to Canada, this is a logical choice.

The Conservative and especially Liberal's path to being elected is low income, high wealth Canadians, too. It's not surprising where the biases lie for centre-right and right wing parties.

[u/FleurDeThree → u/LaserRunRaccoon]

What are the NDP saying? Last I checked Avi Lewis’ only stance was about converting TFWs to PRs. It wasn’t to lower immigration targets or to defend labour from wage suppressing tactics like this.

[u/CanadaPolitics-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Removed for rule 3: please keep submissions and comments substantive.

This is a reminder to read the rules before posting or commenting again in CanadaPolitics.

[u/YouProfessional3196 → u/LaserRunRaccoon]

How are you shoehorning the Conservatives into this? Ridiculous.

[u/LaserRunRaccoon → u/YouProfessional3196]

Conservatives are just as guilty of this. They've just got a problem with being more outspoken about how little they respect the imported labour.

[u/YouProfessional3196 → u/LaserRunRaccoon]

The Conservatives explicitly want to cap immigration at 250k a year they are definitely not about wage supression like the Liberals are.

[u/kamurochoprince → u/YouProfessional3196]

NOW they do. They were clamouring for more immigration when Trudeau was in power.

Just face it, both our major parties have been at odds with public opinion on this one. Now that the election is over, pivoting your stance to be anti immigration makes little difference in a majority government.

[u/LaserRunRaccoon → u/YouProfessional3196]

That is fully compatible with a policy like this.

[u/CanadaPolitics-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Removed for rule 2: please be respectful.

This is a reminder to read the rules before posting or commenting again in CanadaPolitics.

[u/Separate_Football914 → u/LaserRunRaccoon]

GDP is a flawed measure. We had years of GDP growth under Trudeau, yet the GDP per capita lagged behind.

[u/GirlCoveredInBlood → u/Separate_Football914]

Even GDP per capita is often flawed, or at least used in incorrect ways.

I've seen a graphic going around comparing GDP per capita between US states and Canadian provinces and using it to say how much better life in the US is. Just an absurd misunderstanding of what that stat means because no quality of life in West Virginia is not better than Québec or Nova Scotia and no Nunavut isn't the best quality of life in Canada.

[u/LaserRunRaccoon → u/Separate_Football914]

That's like saying points is a flawed measure, we should measure points per game instead.

Turns out, both aren't the best stat for actually measuring the most effective hockey player.

[u/Separate_Football914 → u/LaserRunRaccoon]

If you grow the population, GDP will naturally rise. It doesn’t means that you are creating wealth.

[u/LaserRunRaccoon → u/Separate_Football914]

Raising the GDP per capita doesn't mean you're creating wealth either. You could theoretically achieve that by deporting poor people, for example.

[u/Separate_Football914 → u/LaserRunRaccoon]

Sure, and as you said the mechanics behind the change matter. That being said: under Trudeau the GDP grew by expanding our population. In that context: the GDP numbers were by no means synonimus of wealth creation, quite the contrary,

[u/EarthSignificant4354 → u/Separate_Football914]

🎯And it does not take into account soft quality of life factors like rapid access to urgent care and quality low cost housing and high paying jobs, and reasonable traffic in the cities.

[u/ThePurpleWarrior99 → u/LaserRunRaccoon]

Well, if you don't like it, hurry up and get your Team Orange on the case. Last I heard they were the most rampant in favour of immigration. The NDP has such an easy layup if they just went nationalist...but oh no...can't piss off the university profs.

[u/pomod → u/LaserRunRaccoon]

Its good for gdp. But also for innovation. They bring diverse and creative perspectives to any project they’re employed on. Companies with diverse workforces tend to be more successful. The knee jerk gutting of foreign student visas for example has had immediate and detrimental effects on academia, both monetarily but also in the scope and quality of academic work that gets produced. Also immigration expands the consumer base, they expand tax base, they start businesses and contribute to their communities in countless of ways.

Canadians are being red-pilled with this hysteria around immigration; most of it is just racism as far as im concerned. Its sad to see.

[u/Diesel_Bash → u/pomod]

The issue with this theory and Canada is our immigration has moved away from being diverse.

[u/AllosaurusJr → u/Diesel_Bash]

I don't think everyone's perspective is defined solely or primarily by their place of origin.

[u/Separate_Football914 → u/AllosaurusJr]

It isn’t solely, but there is heavy trends that are built from a country’s culture.

[u/AllosaurusJr → u/Separate_Football914]

I don't disagree that diversity is a benefit or with the idea that a background can inform someone's perspective. I disagree with the idea that a background is enough to decide whether a person's perspective is valuable.

[u/Diesel_Bash → u/AllosaurusJr]

Then immigration wouldn't have the benefit of bringing a diverse perspective.

[u/AllosaurusJr → u/Diesel_Bash]

To be clear, I too would like immigration to bring in a diverse mix of people because I see diversity as a desirable and productive good. But I don’t think that devalues the perspectives of individuals who share a common background nor do I think it means they don’t have something meaningful to contribute.

I don’t really see how your comment follows in response to pomod’s comment. They mentioned the detrimental effects we see now with readjustment pains, diverse or not.

I’d also hasten to suggest that the diversity you and I are speaking about is not the same diversity that report is discussing. While it does discuss the benefits of a heterogenous workplace the substance and productive benefit it details is in overcoming bias in internal processes and structures. That goes for everyone, as individuals.

tl;dr: Should immigration produce diverse outcomes? Undoubtedly. Should someone with something to contribute be denied a chance at it because of their background? Absolutely not.

[u/Diesel_Bash → u/AllosaurusJr]

I don’t really see how your comment follows in response to pomod’s comment. They mentioned the detrimental effects we see now with readjustment pains, diverse or not.

I was directly addressing pomod's initial point about the benefits of lots of immigration without commenting on the deteimental effects of less immigration.

[u/AllosaurusJr → u/Diesel_Bash]

I see. I apologize, I didn’t read it that way. Hope you have a good rest of your day.

[u/random_question4123 → u/Separate_Football914]

So…… how is it a good thing for Canadian?

Easy, it's not. They can't make it any more obvious that their ultimate priority is increasing the population of young working people in the country to support their aging population.

The supposed plan is that new immigration will support the main sectors - banking, telecoms, etc, which should further spur growth, which should then lead to more jobs for Canadians. At least, that's what the hope is. in other words, everything will sort itself out.

[u/enki-42 → u/random_question4123]

It's trickle down economics with a new international flavour! Let the corporations pay barely substinence wages and surely they'll make enough money that they'll want to give some back.

[u/EarthSignificant4354 → u/Separate_Football914]

Do you trust that our leaders are excellent at running predictive simulations to see what outcome is most efficient and prosperous for the people of Canada, before they make decisions?

Me either😂

[u/Separate_Football914 → u/EarthSignificant4354]

They tends to run after policies that will look good on the short term: GDP growth, inflation….

Long term issue is far from being their cup of tea (reason why we do not have an HSR for instance)

[u/EarthSignificant4354 → u/Separate_Football914]

Long term work is harder work and doesn't get flash poll numbers at politically opportune times.

I have found a kinship with my Quebecois brothers that I hadn't know for the first 50 years of my life, through all of this.🤝

[u/TokenBearer]

The large companies that Canada wants to attract with a “competitive” labour market is only demonstrating that offshoring might be more feasible than previously thought. If these people can deliver good results at Canadian prices, then they can probably be made to deliver similar results for $9/hour in India.

This is one of the unspoken reasons large companies are doing mass layoffs while simultaneously expanding their overseas investments. Companies that were investing in Canada before Trudeau are now looking for even cheaper opportunities.

[u/TokenBearer → u/TokenBearer]

Also, some tech companies are considering leaving Canada entirely because of Bill C-22.

[u/enki-42 → u/TokenBearer]

It's why competing on "we have the lowest taxes and salaries for companies coming here" is a fool's game. If all you have to compete on is that, it's a race to the bottom and there will always be another country willing to charge even less and suppress wages even more.

[u/the_normal_person]

What an absolute slap in the face. Those ‘high wage jobs’ (ie, like 60k) is exactly the kind of job new Canadians grads would be looking for.

And now there’s new foreign worker slots for this - without having to try to hire a Canadian first?

And of course dropped on a Friday, as per with this sort of news.

If im a business wanting to hire a bunch of junior computer engineers, why would I advertise any positions over 60k? If I get no Canadians, no problem! Import any foreigner you want with no LMIA!

Awful

[u/clow222 → u/the_normal_person]

Ya fuck the liberals on this. Anyone who votes them, after seeing the disastrous immigration policy, is complicit in enabling this bullshit

[u/CanadaPolitics-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Removed for rule 3: please keep submissions and comments substantive.

This is a reminder to read the rules before posting or commenting again in CanadaPolitics.

[u/Shodspartan100]

This is easily the worst thing this government has done, what the fuck? I’m a HUGE Carney supporter… but this is baffling.

[u/Shodspartan100 → u/[deleted]]

What’s your source for that? It says in the article that this is going into effect on November 3.

[u/Avelion2 → u/Shodspartan100]

i was wrong and you're right it goes into effect on Nov 3 I misread the article sorry for the hopium.. I think im just not gonna vote anymore or ever again.

[u/Vvvvroskiiii → u/Avelion2]

At this point I'm just gonna vote NDP for the foreseeable future. Id much rather spoil my vote rather than vote for whatever this bullshit is

[u/clow222 → u/Shodspartan100]

Liberal party is going to burn this country to the ground. More people need to be outraged by this.

[u/Gryzelda_Gesualdo → u/Shodspartan100]

I’m a HUGE Carney supporter…

There's your problem bud. Carney works for Capital, not Canada.

[u/Vvvvroskiiii]

So this is just an H-1B but way more unregulated

God fucking dammit these people have lost my vote. I hope the NDP can rise again for 2029 because this is genuine bullshit 

[u/Empty_Cut2401]

This is devastating for anyone with a post-secondary degree or working in the trades and will be rife with corruption. Your ability to earn a wage is now in competition with the entire worlds labour market.

[u/yourfriendlysocdem1]

Wow, making it easier for employers to not give Canadians high paying jobs and letting it be shipped overseas. Incredible work LPC, way to go harming our productivity, wage stagnation, especially ending the need for an LMIA.

Way to go Carney! We are building Canada Strong by making it easier for employers to ship our jobs semi overseas while the Canadians remain unemployed.

[u/einstien_ncp]

This seems to be for people who are already in canada or thier employer wants to bring them to canada at that salary, now in the current way where these people don't get enough points due to age or thier education being evaluated as a lower canadian equivalence, these folks are gonna be relocated to a different country by thier companies.

For argument sale let's assume this 60000 earing person is gone from Canada, the job may not be going to another canadian, instead the job will be done by the same person in a different country.

This makes sure that the person stays in canada and continues paying thier 11000 odd tax in canada and also spending in canada

[u/rad2284 → u/einstien_ncp]

That person paying 11k in odd taxes also consumes social services themselves. And with cost of living in Canada, they would barely have enough disposable income to spend in the broader economy.

I get what you're saying, but $60k is waaaaay too low of a threshold for a program like this. Someone earning $60k is not really worth the hassle and potential exploitable loopholes of introducing a program like this.

[u/einstien_ncp → u/rad2284]

Agree I would've wanted this number to be around 100 outside larger metro areas and 200 in metro areas

[u/rad2284 → u/einstien_ncp]

The least they could have done was come up with a national estimate for the average income threshold at which you become an overall net contributor to the tax base, and used that as a rough starting point.

At 1.3x it feels like they just scrambled to come up with some random number with which they could use to push higher immigration levels under the guise of adding "high income" immigrants.

[u/Good-Medicine1066]

This is pretty nuts.

>The government also plans to remove the requirement for an employer to prove they can’t find a qualified Canadian for those jobs.

Drill into the IRCC details and there is a huuuuuuge list of occupations that employers don't need to even try hiring Canadian.

Incredible stuff.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/check-score/high-wage.html

[u/ILikeWhyteGirlz → u/Good-Medicine1066]

Probably because the government knows they are putting fake ads up to pretend they were finding Canadians anyway, so why waste time looking at the fraud when you can just remove it entirely?

[u/Flomo420 → u/Good-Medicine1066]

basically everything.

oh my

[u/the-mongoose-]

I genuinely don’t understand why the Liberals want to remove the requirement to find a qualified Canadian first.

These policies are hostile towards Canadian workers and seem to be exclusively for the benefit of corporations.

Can a Liberal supporter please explain how this is a good thing?

[u/enki-42 → u/[deleted]]

I've worked in companies where there's been abuse of this system to hire a preferred candidate who was immigrating. Stuff like extremely specific tailoring of the job description to an immigrant you want to hire - matching their experience precisely in requirements in ways that you know no applicants will fit.

But like you said, I think reform rather than remove is the better approach here, or tie it to unemployment numbers by sector like we do for temporary workers. You can't find a software engineer? Well 15% of them are looking for work in that field, so try harder.

[u/enki-42 → u/the-mongoose-]

Liberals have never cared about Canadian workers, Carney doubly so. I'm sure his focus is entirely on "number go up", and you can get lots of private investment in a country if you can pay their workers peanuts and pay almost no taxes.

[u/Traditional_Dish_147 → u/the-mongoose-]

This isn’t the first time they’ve tried to test the waters on putting downward pressure on Canadian wages. I remember back in 2022 when they removed the 6% unemployment rate cap on TFWs which they then added back in 2 years later after the immigration file blew up in their faces. If the goal was to help with labour shortages, why remove that cap?

Same thing here. If the goal is to fill labour shortages in high skilled positions, surely requiring an LMIA isn’t a big deal right? Since those shortages would genuinely pass the threshold for an LMIA. Just another way to lower wages

[u/CanadaPolitics-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Removed for rule 3: please keep submissions and comments substantive.

This is a reminder to read the rules before posting or commenting again in CanadaPolitics.

[u/bro_please → u/the-mongoose-]

Because rigid HR policies are BS. The CV can seem good but carry red flags I want to avoid. For high agency individuals, I need trust, and trustworthiness is not something I read on a CV.

[u/LumpenBourgeoise → u/bro_please]

Trust is something you get by holding their visa over their head if they don't perform?

[u/bro_please → u/LumpenBourgeoise]

Trust is something you earn by hearing them talk about the stuff they should know about. Credentials are OK. I need more. When you hire someone, ask questions only a professional could answer with the nuance and annoyance of a professional. Not everyone can do it. Maybe you can't, maybe you can. Maybe you don't understand what I mean, and that is OK too.

[u/CptCoatrack]

A south asian grocery chain in the GTA is offering jobs at the exact lowest wage needed to qualify for this "high wage earners" stream because they apparently can't find any Canadians.. or even people with PR... allegedly..

https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianVisaReform/comments/1wvchlt/the_grocery_store_chain_iqbal_foods_has_filed/#lightbox

Before anyone thinks that this is going to be like educated tech workers or anything..

[u/givalina]

This will take all the problems caused by Harper's reforms and amplify them. We need to divorce candidate-based pathways from job offer pathways.

[u/Redemption_In_Void]

Job offer points in EE: not wise. I doubt IRCC is capable of addressing job offer fraud. It could go back to the classic cash-for-job-offer scheme. This makes everything dependent on the judgment of IRCC visa officers. And I do NOT trust them to make good judgment.

Even if we only consider the rarest case where there is no job offer fraud involved, another flaw is that it doesn't check whether the salary on that job offer is reasonable. Imagine a software engineer job offer paying $40k annually. If IRCC determines it to be genuine, it would grant the same EE points as, say, a software engineer job offer paying $300k annually, as long as the software engineer NOC is on the list. So it could encourage companies to bring down the average wages of these jobs.

What happens when the applicants get PR visa? (That is assuming that the company is willing to keep the $40k vacancy unfilled for the entire duration of PR visa application which is like 6 months) They would work for a few months then quit the job to find another job that pays the normal wage. And the company sends out another $40k job offer to someone abroad. And so it continues...

[u/winterscherries → u/Redemption_In_Void]

Job offer points in EE: not wise. I doubt IRCC is capable of addressing job offer fraud. It could go back to the classic cash-for-job-offer scheme. This makes everything dependent on the judgment of IRCC visa officers. And I do NOT trust them to make good judgment.

I don't like job offer points either fundamentally because I don't think it is a good selection criteria for immigration admission, but job-for-offer is harder to falsify with those classifications. You can't just claim to be a lawyer with no law degree, or a banking manager straight out of school.

Even if we only consider the rarest case where there is no job offer fraud involved, another flaw is that it doesn't check whether the salary on that job offer is reasonable. Imagine a software engineer job offer paying $40k annually. If IRCC determines it to be genuine, it would grant the same EE points as, say, a software engineer job offer paying $300k annually, as long as the software engineer NOC is on the list. So it could encourage companies to bring down the average wages of these jobs.

There's not that much incentive or change from the statu quo though. If you come from a reputable school, then why would you go for a 40k job if there's way better offers on the table? In addition, under the existing system, if you're already on a open work permit, aren't you already trying to maximize your points to get admissible Canadian work experience?

I think the change has a lot more to do with closing some loopholes in the immigration system. Before, skilled work was treated the same, which encourages you to do a degree in Canada (points), then go do any job that is considered remotely "skilled", even if it's a min wage job. Now those candidates will have a harder time competing against uni grads who come out of programs with more rigorous admission criteria.

[u/Redemption_In_Void → u/winterscherries]

job-for-offer is harder to falsify with those classifications. You can't just claim to be a lawyer with no law degree, or a banking manager straight out of school.

Definitely, IRCC will look at credentials of applicants. What I worry is that immigration consultants will be taking advantage of this bonus by matching their clients who are willing to pay cash to get PR, with Canadian companies which are willing to make a fortune out of selling a job that requires credentials which the said clients happen to have.

why would you go for a 40k job if there's way better offers on the table?

I was not talking about work permit holders graduating from reputable Canadian schools, but about overseas PR applicants without Canadian work permit, who thus cannot be hired unless there are Canadian companies that go through the LMIA process to hire them. And once these applicants get PR by virtue of the newly introduced job offer EE bonus, they'd realize they have been lowballed.

Companies would stop hiring locals (who would ask for a higher wage) and turn towards overseas applicants who want PR and can accept being lowballed for a while (sure, as PR they could quit and look for another job, but labour market being so cruel and them being new immigrants, it's easier said than done). And in this way companies can suppress wages.

[u/Redemption_In_Void → u/Redemption_In_Void]

The Liberals could have introduced only EE bonus points for PR applicants with Canadian experience in these high-paying NOC jobs, as long as their wage is reasonable, not much lower than the corresponding NOC median (which is a critical condition that prevents wage suppression but is unfortunately missing from the new EE criteria). This is how high-paying NOC work permit holders already working in Canada can transition to PR.

EE bonus points should not be given to job offer holders, whether they are in Canada or abroad, due to high fraud potential alone. If these job offer holders from abroad want to immigrate as PR, they should first apply for a work permit (guardrailed by LMIA), and then apply for PR using the Canadian experience EE bonus after having worked in Canada for some time, if their CRS points are high enough.

I believe Carney is so business-friendly that he does not care about wage suppression at all. But if you already work in those NOCs or are a struggling job-seeker, you should be angry about this.

[u/One_Draw8876]

i wouldnt be surprised if i see "Canco" (owned by an indian) start hiring engineers, accountants and other professionals from india. Good luck

[u/johncomsci]

How is 1.3 times the median wage high? And I am sure that there are many Canadians who would be dying for those so called “high wage” jobs. This just seems like another way for companies to bring in cheaper foreign talent.

[u/rad2284 → u/johncomsci]

Exactly what I was thinking. In Ontario, that income wouldn't even put you past the threshold where you are a net neutral to the tax system (i.e you pay the same amount of taxes as the costs of the social services you consume).

https://fao-on.org/en/communication/mr-net-contribution-2022/

This is just more window dressing to shoehorn higher immigration levels by a government that has repeatedly shown that they cannot be trusted on immigration.

[u/UnionGuyCanada → u/johncomsci]

That puts it just over $60,000, a year, hardly high wage. We graduate thousands and thousands of engineers yearly. How is this anything but a payoff to employers screwing over Canadians?

[u/YouProfessional3196 → u/johncomsci]

It's trying to destroy the engineering job market and drive more people out of the country. Prepare for more brain drain out of the country of our top talent all so businesses can underpay foreigners.

[u/bro_please → u/YouProfessional3196]

Yes that's the plan. Destroy engineering. And then make sure all kids are trans. All boys become girls. All girls become boys. And no one can tell. And call that socialism?

Be serious. Of course that's not the plan. People who can make 10s of millions move out of the country. We have to replace them. The same way the US steals knowledge workers from Canada and the world, we need to steal it from the world.

[u/Beneficial_Side2458 → u/bro_please]

You really think paying an Indian 60k to vibeslop code is “stealing from the world”?

[u/bro_please → u/Beneficial_Side2458]

I think some of the best people I have hired were Indians.

[u/CanadaPolitics-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Removed for rule 2: please be respectful.

This is a reminder to read the rules before posting or commenting again in CanadaPolitics.

[u/GirlCoveredInBlood → u/YouProfessional3196]

I wouldn't say destroying our engineering pipeline is so much the goal as a side effect that they're okay with as long as it means businesses can pay less.

[u/Crake_13 → u/YouProfessional3196]

Yep, I work in banking in Toronto. $105k base, 20-30% bonus. This seems like a lot to a lot of people and is decently above the median wage, but it's far far below what my colleagues just south of the border earn for the exact same job. Garbage policy like this will just push the wages down even further.

I can't get out of Canada fast enough. Yes, the U.S. is wildly fucked up, but I'm in the top 10% of earners in this country, am decently frugal, have around $100k in savings, and can't come close to owning a house to start a family. America is fucked, but Canada has no hope

[u/YouProfessional3196 → u/Crake_13]

So you are actively admitting the country is messed up yet have a Liberal flair and are looking to move to the US... Is this a satirical flair or...?

[u/Crake_13 → u/YouProfessional3196]

Do you think someone is not allowed to critique the party that they vote for?

Before going into banking, I had the opportunity to actually work for the CPC, and it was a complete mess, and in my opinion, largely morally bankrupt. I have a lot of issues with Justin Trudeau and wouldn't vote for him again, and I certainly have critiques for Mark Carney and some of his policy, but I think he's by far the most qualified person to be PM right now.

Would I move to the U.S. in a second to work in banking there? Absolutely, I would. Do I think Pierre Poilievre and Avi Lewis are a joke? You bet I do.

[u/YouProfessional3196 → u/Crake_13]

But do the qualifications matter if he is clearly not working in Canadians best interests?

[u/Crake_13 → u/YouProfessional3196]

There's a lot that he's done that is easily the best economic policy Canada has seen in a very long time. The fact we're not currently in a horrible recession despite the current trade war with Trump is nothing short of very impressive.

There's a good reason CPC MPs are dropping like flies. Poilievre is a complete joke and if he were PM today, we would be far worse off. Maybe if the CPC gets a new leader, I'll consider them again. Mark Mulroney actually seems very interesting, and I hope he decides to challenge Poilievre.

[u/Livid_Technical_Pand]

Ah yes, let's just reduce the wages of the few jobs that actually allow people to build a life and a future. Surely that will solve our economic woes when nobody has disposable income any more!

[u/Special-Reaction2029 → u/Livid_Technical_Pand]

Ditto with the AI data center push. I was skeptical about Carney to begin with, but he is just another side of the same coin. 

[u/joshlemer → u/Special-Reaction2029]

Not the same thing. Whether or not Vancouver or Manitoba allow data centers will have 0 effect on whether or not AI takes peoples jobs. If the data centers aren't here, they're just going to be built somewhere else and the jobs will still be lost or not.