Feel the burn

[u/upsidedownertron]

Omg. So, I’ve just listened to the tangent on Liberalism for the millionth time and I just clocked the joke.

I assumed the Hot Ones gimmick was just a bit of a Mary Poppins’esque spoon full of sugar to help the medicine go down.

But today it hit me. At 49:36 she says “I’m feeling the burn” - the campaign slogan of Bernie Sanders.

Hahahahahaha amazing.

She then goes on to say that spiciness can be nice sometimes but isn’t always the right choice for chicken nuggets.

Truly a metaphor we could all reflect on.

Hats off to you, Natalie.

[u/Breakfastcrisis]

I have actually watched this tangent so many times. With all the tankies constantly paragliding into every comment section with batshit attacks against nearly any normal person, it feels good to hear Natalie talk about it.

[u/upsidedownertron → u/Breakfastcrisis]

While I agree with Natalie’s observations as to why US leftists are so bad at building the coalition necessary to govern, I’m increasingly convinced those groups are also riddled with bots stoking reactivity and antisocial, polarised rage.

Or maybe I need to rewatch Conspiracy? 🫠🫠🫠

[u/Breakfastcrisis → u/upsidedownertron]

I think there’s probably a lot of upvoting and other bot behavior but I think the bot stuff is overstated.

[u/Acrobatic_Border_192 → u/Breakfastcrisis]

Until you've been accused of being bot, you really don't understand just how right this comment is. Regardless of where you are online, provided that you're critiquing liberals from the left, the probability of being accused of being a bot approaches one in a strange variation on Godwin's Law.

As time passes, I have started to feel that if liberals want that sort of echo chamber that they imply they want, let them have and don't engage. They may win the odd election here and there when the Republicans fuck up too bad to stir up the idiots who support them, but I am quite convinced that the most they'll achieve is to modestly slow down the race to the bottom with no serious attempt forthcoming to undo Trumpian policies. Liberals are sort of tragic figures in that they've sealed the country's fate and their own via having no ideas but to be the Republicans at 80 cents on the dollar. The Republicans are such a force of sheer malevolence that it's almost pointless to think that they could do differently, but liberals, who at least have some decent instincts, are bound from supporting real solutions in practice because it would impede the interests of capital.

[u/Breakfastcrisis → u/Acrobatic_Border_192]

I mean, I’m a third way sort of person so I’ll always have light disagreements with liberals and leftists. I’d certainly say for America there is way too much corporate money in elections.

That being said, to me it seems the furthest thing you can be from Trump is a liberal. Respecting institutions, believing in checks and balances and introducing credible incremental change that lasts, rather than focusing on rapid changes that can and will either fail or be reversed.

I don’t think liberals are looking for an echo chamber, anymore than any other political group. Where I think the objection comes from is in a deficit of decency. On the left, you’re dealing not with policy or particulars. You’re talking to a group who have an attachment to their ideology which is much closer to a religion than a workable political agenda. Because of that, they tend to be arbitrarily aggressive. You can’t be expected to welcome the abuse they give everywhere.

[u/Acrobatic_Border_192 → u/Breakfastcrisis]

I'm basically a Christian Anarchist but in practice I'll support social democrats or Democratic Socialists, though they're few and far between in US politics. For my part, I don't care for the self-justifying myths American politics tells about institutions and the like. This is not a democracy; not even in theory. The electoral college and 2 senators per state wreck any pretense of democracy and that's not even going into SCOTUS having a de facto veto. The idea that the US is somehow more democratic than say UK/the Commonwealth, or most European governments is just a patriotic shibboleth. When the sustenance of capitalism is a bottom line for both parties, the devil's in details, but the big picture is grim enough to start with. Prior to the rise of neoliberalism, the Democrats were devoted to making sure that just enough wealth was spread around to just enough people to keep society functioning in a half-ass fair way economically speaking, but them days is over. Even "social spending", such as it still exists, is essentially a form of indirect business subsidy with today's Dems, not a mercy to poor and working people or even a feeble but honest attempt at a just society.

[u/Breakfastcrisis → u/Acrobatic_Border_192]

I’d certainly agree that the US is not more democratic than the majority of democracies. Democracy has been well and truly tested through Trump and it has not shown to be as robust as it should be. But even before Trump, the expansion of executive orders to try to get policy through was always going to backfire. But I do think it’s extreme to say the US is not a democracy. Democracy is never perfect. But the fact remains that you get what you vote for largely.

I’m not too familiar with Christian Anarchic thinking, but it’s cool that you embrace it. Always interesting hearing new perspectives. I understand the frustration. I’m very much to the left of the Democrats. My instinct is that total systemic collapse is neither realistic nor necessary to achieve the sort of positive change we both want. That we can push better policy through, but it will take time. Trump has set the country back, and the Overton window is very much further to the right than it was. I don’t think anything can shift that. I think our options are incremental or further right.

[u/Glittering-Walk2206]

I have only seen the section she posted on Instagram and the part that she let hutch react to and I’m still obsessed

In fact have watched the section that she posted on insta like 10 times because that’s how great it is 

[u/Worldly_Horse_2310]

Its possible this was her intention, its also possible you might need to watch Conspiracy next lol

[u/upsidedownertron → u/Worldly_Horse_2310]

Hahaha good point! Don’t want to make assumptions.