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As a Cali resident, I don't mind lane splitting as long as they aren't doing it outside of slow traffic and at a reasonable speed. I have many moments where I have no idea there is a motorcycle near me until they fly past on the lane divider
That's interesting. I was taught that solid lines cannot be crossed. They are to be seen as curbs. A white one means you can be on either side and a yellow one should only ever be on your left (you should always be to the right of solid yellow).
What state do you live in? In my state it's illegal to cross a single solid line unless there's an obstruction or hazard. It's pretty clear cut really.
That's one thing that sucks about how some laws are written. Because if it's discouraged, that should be interpreted as not legal under most circumstances. That's exactly how an officer is trained to interpret it. Basically if you don't have a good reason to safely cross a solid white line, you're opening yourself up to getting a ticket.
That's why "Unsafe Lane Change" doesn't rely on what the line allows. It's not an automatic violation, but it gives the officer a bigger opening for it.
*I* am not the one making the claim they were charged for the white line, you are. Therefore it is not up to me to prove your claim is silly, it is up to you to prove that your claim is valid.
That is how logic and debate work. After all, I am claiming against, and as the old saying does "you can not prove a negative".
And you can not prove they were charged with a white line violation.
Once again, I can see that logic is a difficult concept for you.
I also can not prove they were not charged with homicide, driving with dirty underwear, and having a detestable hair style. However, I am not making any of those claims, so it is not up to me to validate anything.
You are the one making the claim, therefore it is up to you to validate it. And your failure to do so in any way is something I am finding hilarious.
"My claim is completely correct because proof is impossible. Your claim is completely incorrect because proof is impossible. I see no issue with this."
Props to you for trying to explain the errors in this but I really feel like it's a futile effort.
It is, and it is something I sadly see all the time.
As somebody that made a career around computers, logic is something that is very critical. And it always makes me shake my head when people can not grasp the absolute basics of logic.
And all the damned time I keep seeing people demanding somebody prove something is not true. That is simply not how it works.
Of course, who says I am actually responding *to them*?
Quite often, who I am actually responding to is the others involved, so they can grasp the logic involved.
And yes, I have long ago given up on even attempting logic on the "trust me, bro" types. Whenever I see them pop up with such stupid arguments it takes me back to a very old Monty Python sketch.
According to standard traffic guidelines, (like the MUTCD) lane filtering in areas with solid white lines is discouraged, but not prohibited. It’s double yellow that lane filtering becomes prohibited.
In Wisconsin Lane Splitting is illegal so the guidelines just assist with determining additional tickets.
Now in this case the motorist most likely would’ve gotten a fine for lane splitting anyway since that’s the crime. The road markings wouldn’t mean anything since he still would get fined if it had passing lane markings.
That said, depending on the cop, he could’ve given an additional fine for changing lanes on the solid white, if he was feeling generously strict that day. But he probably would’ve had more success with just the lane splitting one sticking. But it also depends, since he was technically in the middle going between the lanes and not exactly changing lanes in and out. I could see that part of a ticket being dropped if fought.
When I first moved to LA from Indiana, I forgot about lane splitting; it scared the shit out of me the first time one flew by me in between another car on the 210.
I love lane splitting. Its so much safer and easier. Prevents being rear ended by idiots. This guy was doing it properly too, not too fast, patient, careful. Full gear. The only logical argument against it is you're a salty emotional cager thats mad bike man gets to go ahead of you. Ill never understand why its illegal. It should be strictly regulated so people dont go excessively fast doing it or have it legal to be dicks, but having it illegal is dumb and unsafe for riders.
I’m in Texas, am aware of what lane splitting is, ride myself, and know that it is not lawful here. I don’t do it personally because drivers don’t anticipate it. If im driving and see a biker doing it, I will give them as much space as possible to pass me safely. I don’t understand the mentality of “they’re gonna beat me to their destination, therefore they must DIE!!!” They’re not impeding you, the rest of traffic is. So many more important things to focus on than getting mad someone else might save five minutes getting home.
You make a great point about traffic and it’s hilarious because I’ve come across so many angry drivers that hate motorcyclists doing this because it “causes traffic” but they fail to realize it lessens the traffic.
As a non bike riding, California driver, I agree with you. Dude in the video was doing what I would expect a biker to do. Last thing I want is a bike sandwiched between my rear bumper and some dumbass behind me.
That being said, follow your local laws, and do your best to stay safe.
Plus the rider probably didn't want to get himself killed to try and escape a simple traffic ticket on top of his plates getting captured. Many bikers got themselves killed trying to flee what may have even been just a warning and no ticket.
Yesterday when I was on I-35 (busy damn interstate) I had a motorcycle scare the shit out of me by lane splitting between me and a big semi at about 50mph. Guy just cruised between us, on this section of highway that's both under construction and not perfectly straight. Semi would have crushed him. It's one thing to split when traffic is stopped or barely moving, and to do so at a low speed. But to do so on the highway, at near-highway speeds, while traffic is moving and congested, on the worst interstate in the area...death wish.
And he kept on doing it for as long as I could see. Scary.
In a situation like this, I see nothing wrong with lane splitting. Why add another vehicle to an already congested road? This only improves flow of traffic, doesn't it?
A 400+ page report from the 80's... let's just get straight to the logical conclusion that the risk is increased due to car drivers feeling way too safe in their own steel bubble and assuming the same for all others around them, resulting in decreased situational awareness and just zoning out in slow moving traffic. A lot of daily bikers willingly trade safety for mobility, but a minority of idiotic attention seekers keep giving them a bad rep. Eventually devolving public opinion to "I'm stuck in traffic so you should be too".
That 20% increase is comprised entirely of the incidence of motorcycles rear ending other vehicles. It's not a car's fault when they get rear ended. It's not about they should be stuck in traffic too, it's about a 20% higher incidence of motorcycles rear-ending other vehicles when lane splitting. Nothing is safe about that, and last I checked an accident slows traffic for everyone way more than a handful of cyclists getting to speed through - 1 in 5 of which will statistically rear end another car. What a small minded and selfish argument.
And yet my homecountry has almost 1/3 as many deadly motorcycle accidents per 100 million traveled miles compared to the US. Even with legal filtering, so it seems you guys have bigger issues (like relying on science from the 80's)
There may not be one, but I can tell you that the study you liked has no relevance anymore. There are 3 million more registered riders today, the average rider age went from 27 to 50, not to mention more safety courses for new riders, and the amount of drivers has increased by 100 million since then as well. Berkeley had some research recently stating the biggest contributing factor to accidents is difference in speed between bikes and cars. However, like many others have said, lane splitting reduces rider fatality from rear end collisions. Even if it doesn't reduce accidents overall, it still reduces fatal accidents and serious injuries, which is all that really matters.
How can it be safer to behave unpredictably in bumper-to-bumper traffic around vehicles that could squish you like a bug without their drivers even noticing you’re there?
The myth is that not-splitting is safer. On one side or another, drivers still don't notice you're there.
Now, the vast majority of videos you see of people splitting are the "memorable" ones. It's quite possible to be very, very unsafe while splitting. But it's also quite possible to be safe, especially where it's expected. Those make boring videos.
It's only unpredictable because we have normalized forcing bikes to sit in traffic instead of letting them filter through like the vast majority of the world. There was an interesting study that's been redone a few times that shows that letting bikes filter through reduces traffic, emissions, and motorcycle accidents involving another vehicle. I think it started at Berkeley but I might be mistaken. This has been the driving force behind more states slowly legalizing filtering.
Now. The riders who lane split in an unsafe and illegal way open themselves and others to a lot of additional risks, but that's usually due to their speed while filtering, not the act of filtering itself.
That doesn't mean to do it where it is explicitly told that no vehicle is allowed to move around; such as a solid white. Two wheels doesn't get allowed to break the law.
I agree with lane splitting other than specifics such as this though
Once again, that is an issue for state and local laws.
In California for example, that is legal even with a solid line because the state specifically removed any references to more than one vehicle occupying a lane at the same time.
Some states do have lane splitting illegal, but have legalized lane filtering (which is commonly done in a solid white line area before a stop light).
Explain please since you are so concentrating on the solid white line, why many states allow lane filtering?
Are they really good reasons though? The laws are probably based on outdated studies and, in certain conditions, splitting lanes can be safer for riders. Even California only allows it in stopped or slowed traffic, which is the only time you would need to do it anyway.
Many states allow lane filtering because they have a head on their shoulders. Solid white lines denote when a vehicle shouldn't be crossing over in general. It is not a stance that I am saying that should always be a law regarding motorcyclists, but if people are going to lane filter when its already not allowed somewhere, the smartest thing to do is not do it while also doing more things that will piss off the same people against it.
Some areas are better to lane filter in as well but that's once again up to people to change. Plus some common sense and watching out for idiots goes a long way in ensuring that happens. The more people make motorbikes look bad though, the harder it will be. Even in the simplest way down to the legality that is on a piece of paper that otherwise wouldn't matter.
Again though, I want to make it clear I am not against lane splitting here because of the spot, but again because of how others see it on paper.
Not true. You're 2% less likely to be rear-ended but 22% more likely to rear end someone else - meaning that as a lane splitting motorcyclist you're 22% more likely to be the cause of an accident and only 2% less likely to be the victim of one. That doesn't sound safe at all.
Running into a car on a bike is significantly better than being run into by a car. So while the likelihood of an accident might increase, the severity of those accidents drops.
Right and reducing the overall likelihood of being in an accident by 20% does that by the greatest measure. Can't get hurt if you're not in an accident.
Accident doesn't equal serious injury. Running into a car on a motorcycle at low to moderate speeds typically results in minor injuries and damage to vehicles.
Running into a motorcycle in a car at those same speeds has a high chance of crushing the rider under the vehicle or between it and another vehicle. Those are significantly different situations.
You're confusing safe and safer. Accident likelihood is only a small piece because not every accident is the same. Bumping into another car in a parking lot is significantly less dangerous than losing control at 70mph and hitting a parked semi. Both are 2 vehicle accidents with very different outcomes.
Look past the statistics and think about the real world for a second. Are you really trying to argue that increasing potentially fatal accidents is good because it reduces the overall rate of accidents?
I'm not even exaggerating because I would actually love to be proven wrong here but literally every single biker I see on the road that is going in the same direction of traffic as I am... every single one of them... either speeds by going 10 to 15mph or more over the speed limit or land splits like this.
They all whine about "share the road" yet don't mind being all over it and riding incredibly recklessly.
I have not seen a single biker NOT drive like that in well over a decade and I see bikers almost every day.
Edit: down voted as usual. Must be nice to all of you redditors that DON'T have to deal with the kind of bikers that I do. Idk why that warrants me getting down voted though but whatever 🤷
Where I live, they only ride in huge gangs, basically taking over the road. Whenever you see a Harley here, you know like 10 to 15 others are right behind.
You most likely have confirmation bias, only noticing when a bad biker is on the road. I see tons of bikers doing nothing wrong.
Also most of what you said can be said about almost every driver of a car..... Almost nobody follows all the laws and routinely speed or not make complete stops at signs both of which are incredibly dangerous... But you probably don't care about those because you are also a car driver
So just because YOU see tons of bikers in your area obeying the law, it must mean that where I live, it must be the same?
Also regular cars can't lane split so your argument means absolutely nothing.
Reddit is fucking wild with its logic.
I literally drive for a living so I'm on the road all day. Come to the island of Kaua'i and tell me I'm wrong.
Also, yeah everyone on the road here is a fucking moron. People here drive the wrong way on a one way, stop at intersections that are only a 2-way stop and not a 4-way stop, and think it's a sin to use your break pedal and will cut you off in traffic to avoid using it. I do hate car drivers too.
The difference is that I have never seen a biker in my area NOT drive all over the road like a reckless moron but I have seen regular car drivers be normal.
Didn't think I'd need to explain something so simple like that...
You said that I have confirmation bias simply because you see bikers who follow the law.
My comment was that using that logic means that just because you see them obeying the law means it must be that way everywhere and there can't possibly be anywhere in the world where most bikers do NOT obey the law.
How the actual fuck is your most recent comment, the one I'm responding to, your response to that?...
Also I literally said how regular car drivers in my area are also shit and never once said, nor implied they are safe.
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