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These BJP supporters are completely delusional. If anything anti-government is CIA regime change, then what happened between 2011 and 2014 with the IAC and Anna Andolan? Will they term that as regime change as well?
Why did Modi say Abki Baar Trump Sarkar in 2019 in Texas?
The objective of IAC was introduction of Lokpal bill. And later the Nirbhaya protests fueled it.
2014 was the year The UPA was decimated after elections.
Regime change happened in Bangladesh and Nepal. A show of street power to overthrow the government.
you are too probably too young to remember. But during that time, this allegation was shouted by congress folks. It didn't get a lot of traction because scam allegations were coming out left and right every week.
As long as youāre clean there is no need to sell yourself out to ED. And continuous protests lead to civil unrest like European nations. India definitely needs a stronger opposition and it isnāt congress or CJP. I hope someday people like Mr.Annamalai, Sai deepak and anand ranganathan join together to form it.
IF Govt act like bangladeshi Govt, Regime change like Bangladesh is also fine. If Govt thinks they are not supposed to start dialogue with its own people and Dalli police is solution for everything, I dont see why we need such a Govt. When 3 rape happened in Delhi last month no police, HM showed any urgency to install cameras, increase the police in Delhi.. Simply nothing and as they hear about protest suddenly cameras are getting installed, Police are brought from other states. I see issues in Govt priority. Just because Ankita Bhandari is not my real sister, i will not let it slide,
I am totally against BJP buying MLA's and MP'S, but it pretty much show's how bad INC and other party's situation is, if they cannot keep their flock together.
Thatās the reason they got voted out in 2014ā¦ remember? BJP came up with the plan to wipe out corrupt leaders and then ended up in bed with all of them instead?? Now all those people we voted out are back in power as BJP leaders, some as CMs?
It is Rahul Gandhi's and the INC'S duty to highlight the hypocrisy of the BJP, if he has so many problems, he can always approach the courts (but the counterargument will be that courts are working for the BJP, what is the point in him approaching the courts), then let me tell you about the Lakhimpur Kheri incident, he fought continuously, and the accused is still struggling to get acquitted, Arvind Kejriwal was also acquitted by the same judiciary. Now you will say, how can he call out the hypocrisy of the BJP when the media is sold out, where will he be able to communicate with the masses? Have you heard of news channels like Quint, TNM, the wire and also about apps like Insta? He can always carry out his messaging there. Merely calling out other's hypocrisy will not get you votes.
Imagine blaming the opposition because the government protects corrupt politicians and let rapists walk free. Rahul Gandhi doesnāt control the ED, CBI or police. BJP does. If your party welcomes the same corrupt leaders that was voted out, gives them power, pauses investigations against them, makes them CMs and shields them from investigation, the problem isnāt Rahul Gandhiās failure. Itās your partyās hypocrisy and you Andhbakths inability to see it.
Blaming the opposition is valid because the one time you guys get a genuine issue to corner the BJP, you guys just beat around the bush, and cry about things. Let me point out to the opposition' hypocrisy- INC'S Revanth Reddy jumped from TDP, RAGA doesn't have a problem. Modi was hounded for 2002 after UPA came to power in 2004, even though he was innocent. He is still called names for that, but RAGA is right. TMC forced 12 BJP MLA'S to join their ranks after 2021, nobody spoke a word, BJP and INC cadres were thrashed in WB, today the same TMC supports INC, and RAGA doesn't seem to mind. DMK advocated for the release for Rajiv's killers, RAGA had an alliance with DMK, 40% commission for contracts by the BJP was the pitch for knocking them out from Karnataka, the same contractors now claim that Congress demands more than 40% from them. I mean when the opposition is so dumb and filled with hypocrisy, people will obviously think twice before giving an opportunity to them to be heard.
Please... don't give me AI sourced condensed 2-line nutshells of the Godhra judgements.
Read the actual judgements, follow the timeline, follow the interviews of people who made the carnage happen... Watch some documetaries made on them.
Then we can talk.
Start with Anand Patwardhan. Follow up with BBC.
Yoir arguments hence forward have been invalidated because eof the position you have regarding this. Clearly....you see the world a certain way because of my religious affiliations. I was born hindu, but since then, my education and training have taught me that 'religion is the opium of the masses'.
Nobody said Congress is innocent. But we voted for BJP because it promised to fight corruption. I voted for BJP in 2014. Now BJP welcomes the same corrupt leaders into its party. Instead of answering for that, you keep pointing fingers at Congress. If BJP is doing the same thing, what exactly makes it better? You canāt criticize Congress for corruption and then make excuses when BJP does it. Thatās not fighting corruption. Thatās just sucking up, having no ethics, no credibility, no spine .. or in other words, fatherless behavior.
Elections are never a fight to choose between Good VS Evil, itās between Big Evil VS Small Evil, BJP was the Small evil back in 2014, but they are the biggest evil now, exceeded all expectations.
yes. why is the BJP the no 1. "nationalist" taking them? can they not make non corrupt people win elections as their bank balance is more than all parties combined? cause they are as corrupt, if not more than everybody else.
And buying MPs and MLAs only work when more than 2/3rd of the MPs and MLAs defect, which stops anti defection laws from triggering. How bad is the situation if more that 2/3rd of your elected members are willing to leave.
I think we should have stronger anti defection laws and we should introduce anti coalition breaking laws too.
Let's not pretend that it's only 'buying of MLAs and MPs'.
Have we conveniently forgotten about the ED and CBI and IT raids? The scams and the threat of legal action weaponised by the BJP has been immense.
For example, Himanta Biswa Sarma in Assam has his entire career with the Congress. But he is heavily involved in the 'Louis Berger' scams, and who ever had his files, basically controls him.
In addition, he is immensely power hungry and corrupt. And the greed to become the CM was also involved in his switch to BJP.
Correlate this with the amount of property his wife and him have purchased in the last 6 years in Assam. You'll be amazed.
I never said any of the parties are clean. They are all scum in my opinion. But buying MLAs is one thing. They have the peopleās mandate with them (which was given for a particular party), and then poaching a leader before the elections is different (the mandate hasnāt been given yet). So poaching MLAs and MPs is of greater concern than poaching a leader and then fielding him as the face of your election. Because, atleast in the later, the people know from whom they are voting.
Again, read where I said all parties are scum. Did I stutter?
My point was itās still understanble to have non MPs or MLAs move from one party to another (after resigning) and then they field them in elections and win.
Itās quite another if you get 2/3rd MPs or MLAs from the opposition and then move them to your party, without them having to recontest for the seats
All parties are scum. That's eerily familiar. I remember someone called Donald Trump making that statement about 'both sides' after scuffles and so called riots between 'Neo-Nazis' and people who call themselves Antifa.
The two sides are not the same. All parties are scum isn't a statement that requires critical thinking.
So you think there is some party that has the moral high ground? Good for you, vote for them. I have been disillusioned from this view. All of them are scums in my eyes
Dude the other side was also once totally fascist. They had introduced emergency. If you think this is bad, you have no idea of what attrocities were under emergency.
One small example. If you were arrested during emergency, they can imprison you indefinitely and you donāt have the right to go to court.
So if one is fascist, so is the other. There is no morally superior side here. All all scums
You basically said what I said, as a generalized statement. And you also said that it's bad. You also said that people in India vote on party lines and not for candidates based on their performance and credibility.
Which is the point of the buying of MPs MLAs and leaders and then washing them clean becasue they joined your party of preference which has a huge funding and propaganda machine.
Again read my first point. I specifically mentioned we need two things
Stronger anti defection laws. Remove the requirement of 2/3rd leaving doesnāt trigger anti defection laws. Make it so if any one leaves , re-poll is done.
Introduce anti coalition defection laws. Make it so that if any party comes out of a coalition and forms government with the ones it was fighting against, re-polls will be required.
After the re-polls, if they still win, well thatās the will of the people and should be accepted.
Tbh i feel most of the MP/MLAs defecting towards NDA is more cause of Power hunger than ED , CBI raids.
Scindia : Projected as an upcoming young educated chief minister of MP. Only to be given the post to some 75 year old.
Shiv sena split : The Thackreays pretty much vowed to never join active politics and only to be king makers. Now suddenly they want the CM post for themselves. Others who joined them with some aspirations were totally not going to take it easily.
I see you what you mean there. But that's like 2 examples. Majority have defected because of the threats, and the promise of no action of they join BJP. It's not called the washing machine party for nothing.
oh i do agree with the washing machine thing. we cannot expect any justice from them when they are literally filling their party with goons and white washing their crimes cause they are now under BJPs influence.
But i feel a sense of remaining is power also works cause otherwise BJP would have dismantled TMC a long time ago, but only for it to break apart once they lost the elections means they were power hungry and didnt care for ED, CBI much. Same for Scindia and Shiv sena.
There's no "situation". If you were given a reward of crores without any repercussions then, rather there is a threat of ED which would go away, you would also get sold. Nothing Congress can do here.
Indian politicians have no ideology and the public doesn't punish them for that either.
So why canāt they just buy out Rahul Gandhi as well and get it over with. ED threat is a cause but not the root cause. People will defect when the future of the party isnāt certain, and growth opportunities are few. Plus being a dynastic party, where the Gandhi name matters more than actual caliber, is not helping the congress.
They might not have as much funds as BJP, but it would be foolish to think that they donāt have funds. Have we forgotten how many times Rahul has gone to US universities, Cambridge in general and asked that international governments should speak out about the dangers of democracy in India, plus his buddy buddy with Elon on Twitter? He has funds. Without funds you canāt organise all the protests and yatras they have done
I didn't say they don't have "any funds", I said they don't have "the funds" meaning they don't have enough to horse trade like BJP has done in so many states.
Oh they do have those funds too. Again, if you have funds to carry on protests and yatras like the Bharat jodo yatra. You have funds to buy MLA and MPs too. The only problem is you would have to buy 2/3rd of the MPs. Since BJP is winning so many MPs and MLAs, that is a monumental task to pull off, even if you have the funds
And I mean the congress isnāt innocent too. Didnāt the break the alliance with DMK to go with TVK (the ones they were fighting against as a coalition)? Thatās why I said we need better anti defection laws and need to introduce anti coalition breaking laws too.
Na, from what I have read in my constitution classes, Schedule 10 is pretty perfect, my only problem as a BJP supporter is that there is no need to import leaders from other parties, when you have good home-grown leaders in your own ranks. Except for Himanta and Suvendu, others are liabilities. Ajit Pawar's case is ongoing, Raghav has just shut his mouth, other leaders are just winning because of Modi's support.
When one one side is a party with 1000s of crores of funds and who is using govt machinery to threaten and coerce people, i honestly cannot blame the other party
Would that not apply for "regime change" as well? If a 95 year old American man can get thousands of your young people on the street, then what does it say about your situation?
its all quite similar to actually what happened in around 2013 , 2012 period. the parallels are quite clear. Even at that time BJP weaponized anna andolan to push "regime change" : which is just, tbh attempts to change public perception
Everyone with common sense knows buying MLAs is wrong. That doesnāt mean the same people will allow for some random protesters to overthrow a democratically elected government.
Right to protest is more democratic than buying MLAs. It's only in India that people are hopelessly not aware of how India came into being that is through protests. If democratically elected governments become authoritarian and disenfranchise its voters, the government no longer enjoys popular support. They got to go either through protests, like the British, or through elections.
What do you call toppling the elected Kamal Nath government in Madhya Pradesh in 2020 by attracting MLAs who had won their seats on an INC manifesto? A masterstroke?
The question isn't whether it was technically a regime change in the same sense as overthrowing a government by force. It's whether engineering the collapse of an elected government by inducing defections is a legitimate democratic mandate or merely a legally permissible political manoeuvre. You can't celebrate the tactic as a masterstroke and then dismiss criticism of it as false equivalence.
Treating two things as comparable when they differ in significant ways. Minor similarities are used to equate fundamentally different situations.
Example: "Jaywalking and armed robbery are both crimes, so they should be punished equally." - The severity and nature of these offenses are vastly different.
Someone in this thread referenced this reasoning concept. This is an automated reply - the bot does not evaluate whether the concept actually applies. It is here to share what the term means so everyone in the conversation has the same context.
Because however flawed, which i don't agree with, MLA switching is still electorally legal. And in many cases, they resign and face the public again. The protests demanding regime change like we saw in all the countries around us, Bangladesh, Sri lanka, Nepal, are all illegally done by force. Isn't the difference obvious to everyone here?
Which government bjp toppled by buying MPs Or MLAs??
I remember Uddhav Thakre NCP and Congress coming together to keep BJP out of poer in maharashtra
BJP and Uddhav fought as alliance right?
You do know Indian democracy isn't party based but individual candidate based? When you vote, you vote for the candidate contesting and all the winning candidates elect the Chief Minister or Prime Minister in the assembly/parliament. An elected candidate deciding to withdraw his support from the current Minister and nominate another minister isn't undemocratic in anyway. The way it has happened in recent times treads on the grey line and I don't support it. But it still isn't a valid comparison to street disruptions based regime change.
Ask them to get document verified and list again. My whole family name were removed, we found, contacted BLO, provided needed documents and it's back again
You also realize that the software is not letting the BLOs add them back despite court orders? Just look of Goa and West Bengal SIR cases. Itās by design to reduce voters in contituencies where BJP had the least votes in the previous elections. Thatās also proven. Just read up. Itās all there in public record unlike the SIR deletions.
According to the India SIR Data Center, which compiles ECI publications, around 13.31 crore entries were removed across 31 states and UTs. The reported reasons are:
These numbers show why electoral-roll revision matters, but they do NOT prove that every deletion was correct. Shifted or absent doesn't automatically mean fake, and even death or duplicate classifications must be verified.
The voter should go through process and prove things to vote again.
Look at the state-level data:
Uttar Pradesh: 2.88 crore entries removed.
Maharashtra: 2.06 crore.
Karnataka: 1.07 crore.
Telangana: 71.09 lakh.
Delhi: 47.56 lakh, with the dashboard reporting a 31.29% deletion rate.
You realize that Indian Express along with multiple other news agency have provided evidence that these facts are incorrect, that dead voters are in fact alive, and that the BJP workers are using the forms to rampantly delete voters? Like are you trying to gaslight us by saying there is nothing wrong when the two EC officers have gone on record saying the deletions are illegal?
Also Supreme Court has issued a notice to the EC. Multiple notices to which there are no answers as of now?
Are you living under a rock to quote SIR data which the EC themsleves has deemed false?
People in this sub be acting like poaching of MP and MLA was started by bjp, lol. When the opposition regularly promote the prince without any qualification, the people within the party will get frustrated and look to leave. If you can t even look after the people of your own party how are you going to look after the people of India. Instead of always blaming the bjp the opposition should introspect whats going wrong.
Broās talking as if itās not the standard operating procedure of politicians. What does he think, MLAs are innocents and are threatened to join BJP?
In Maharashtra, BJP and SS had a pre poll alliance and fought the elections as the opposition to Congress and Alliance. Post elections, SS threw a tantrums and left the alliance and joined Congress and NCP to form the government.
Is that not a violation of voter's trust?
In WB, TMC kept rigging every election. Either by booth capturing or voter intimidation or violence against opposition workers. When they couldn't do it anymore, they lost quite badly.
In Maharashtra, BJP and SS had a pre poll alliance and fought the elections as the opposition to Congress and Alliance. Post elections, SS threw a tantrums and left the alliance and joined Congress and NCP to form the government.
Is that not a violation of voter's trust?
Matter of fact still stays. The brought down a govt not by votes, but by money, ED raid threats.
In WB, TMC kept rigging every election. Either by booth capturing or voter intimidation or violence against opposition workers. When they couldn't do it anymore, they lost quite badly.
Now they broke the party after the defeat. Folks part of opposition split and made their own party to join with BJP.
LMAO. Totally ignored the fact that SS got the seats because it was in alliance with the BJP and stood against Congress. Later SS splintered and created a faction to get away from Thackerays.
Similar thing happened in WB, there was a lot of discontent among TMC about Mamata pushing Abhishek Banerjee as the next face of TMC.
BJP uses these divisions, maybe stop promoting nepo babies to be the next chief and it won't happen?
You are not really really countering me here. Yeah, it is still undemocratic to bring down a govt regardless of what their previous arrangements where. It is still undemocratic to poach and split opposition parties. Internal politics be damned.
Neither did you. You just ignored the entire event of how the MVA was formed and want to cry about SS and NCP being broken up.
It's pointless to argue with IT Cell
Look, if you just wanna be the next Arnab and repeat the same thing over and over, you're gonna get no audience. It's so sad that a newbie journalist's alt account has more followers than his main account.
It's no slip up. If you don't let us vote, we will remove you from power - change the regime. If you let us vote, we will use the votes to remove you from power - also change the regime. Everyone knows that. If you wanna become like Hasina in Bangladesh, or Kim Jong Un in Korea, or any dictator who doesn't conduct elections, you got to go my friend.
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