r/DCcomics • u/AutoModerator • Aug 30 '26
r/DCcomics Lanterns S01E03 - Outkast Discussion Thread
Sunday, 8/30: Lanterns S01E03 - Outkast
Time/Date: August 30 9:00 PM ET
Network/Channel: HBO
4
u/MillionDollarMistake Sep 04 '26
I've but been loving the show and this episode as a whole but I felt that maybe some of the racial stuff might have been a bit heavy handed, or maybe "misapplied" is a better way to put it. I don't mean in a "wow DC is woke because they included social commentary/politics in my superhero show" sort of way because that's fucking stupid, comics have always included social commentary. And talking about race in America isn't a problem either, it's especially fitting in a show about space cops and authority.
I'm really only talking about the mother's point about "of course he was afraid, he's a black man in America". It just feels clunky. I can't imagine any well adjusted person wouldn't be afraid if an alien green bubble broke into your bedroom in the middle of the night and asked "are you afraid". White, black, rich, poor, I don't see the vast majority of people being like "nah this is cool actually". I feel similarly to the parents talking about how "even in space they don't see black people", like what about the Guardians shows they have any concept of race to begin with? They barely seem like they give a shit about earth as a whole. It feels like the parents are just looking for an excuse to justify failing the arbitrary bullshit test the Guardians came up with.
I understand what the show is saying and I agree with it but I don't know, I get we're not supposed to like the parents in general but this felt like something the audience was supposed to agree with, and not the abusive parenting stuff we're supposed to feel negatively about. The Guardians being represented by an old, rich, out of touch white woman fumbling an apology to a black family she helped screw over is not the most subtle of metaphors.
Maybe it could have been done better, but then there's also that debate of "emotional truth vs logical consistency" when doing something like this. Emotionally we can agree and sympathize with the message but is it as effective if it doesn't make as much sense when viewed from a wider lens in-universe? The X-Men are another example of that. Does social commentary have to make perfect sense in the context of the world it's in? Should it? I'm not sure where I fall on that, but in this case I thought it was a bit weak. It's great if someone could connect to it though.
1
u/JoltzmannBoole Sep 05 '26
I agree with u/OK-Instruction4862, it is clunky. I understand the mom is on the defensive but it does make the show sound like it's reaching to make the point instead of it coming fully naturally. I think the conversation between the mom and the dad right after is much much more natural, they already have the shared context about their heritage and their experiences unlike with the Guardian.
Similarly the conversation in Episode 2 between John and Zoe. John makes an observation that he thinks Billy Maykin is weird but Zoe isn't, based on the observation that she seems too rational for that. I don't know how he gets that from one previous conversation which immediately lead to a one-night stand, but sure, Jan. But she immediately goes from that to "white men" get to be weird ("the privilege of being eccentric"), but she...likes him being rich and white? At best, she is profiting off what she seems to be critiquing, at worst, she is at least approving of the status quo/system if not actively benefitting from it. It also tells us barely anything about her character, which is not the best use of the short screen time she has. (I mean not that it's the absolute best assessment of story quality but both of her conversations would fail the Bechdel test lol (maybe 2/3 if you count the middle one, but it only lasted a few seconds).)
I appreciate them getting a black woman to co-write these episodes, but it's still quite heavy-handed. A much better version of this is when Kerry's talking to Hal and not negotiating with him, until he stops undermining her authority by going "over" her head to someone who is not in fact more authoritative than her, just has more seeming or actual power than her. That not only is good commentary on women in the workplace and social life but also Kerry's character, how she cares about people, or at least cares about her town and her sense of duty.
Also there's like a little almost-Wilhelm-scream sound effect when Hal gets hit with the pool cue in Episode 1 lol.
2
u/MillionDollarMistake Sep 05 '26
The way I took it either as Zoe wanting to profit off of that privilege, or at least isn't afraid of taking advantage of it for her own needs. Or there's more going on between them than we know so far, like maybe Zoe isn't human. She seemed a little coy after John said she wasn't weird, and her whole vibe during that scene felt like she wasn't simply talking about being a woman of colour. But that could also be me looking for clues where there aren't any lol
1
u/JoltzmannBoole Sep 05 '26
I agree, but it's a little harder to critique a system when you actively choose to take advantage of said system, or at least it opens up the critic to their own set of criticism. Either way there was no segue into it.
Yeah, she might not be human. Maybe she's even the mysterious benefactor using "rich white human privilege" to carry out her true goals undetected.
Hey! The mark of a good detective is looking for all the clues and entertaining all the theories, I tip my cap to ya.
3
u/Ok-Instruction4862 Sep 05 '26
I think it is a bit clunky. Though I think we are definitely not to feel strong sympathy for the parents. It doesn’t make them look like complete psychos and there is some humanizing moments, but they are constantly telling you in the interview how estranged John is from his family.
I still find two black parents abusing their son because they feel so strongly to have him break the racial glass ceiling to be a compelling character hook and they executed it pretty well. I do agree though that them applying racial commentary on the guardians to be a bit weird.
1
u/thebowlman Sep 04 '26
I thought the whole point was for GL to be able to overcome great fear, not to be fearless.
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u/HarbyFullyLoaded_12 Nightwing Sep 04 '26
Absolutely incredible episode of tv. I do wish this show had more Green Lanterning going on but it doesn’t change the fact how damn well written and acted this show is.
Even without much Hal in this one I feel like this was the strongest episode yet. Just thoroughly loving the show for what it is.
4
u/Mr_TDurden Sep 04 '26
It reminded me of Wonder Man. Just a great story being told by great actors, and when we're invested, they'll give us the fan service we deserve.
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u/Self_Owned_Tree Sep 03 '26
John surviving that massive, gashing wound after falling through the trees is pretty impressive.
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u/waffle_wolf Bowhunter Security: Always on Point! Sep 03 '26
These "Guardians" seem kinda like Manhunters. Not know the difference between raised and programmed. Shapeshifting. Very strict about orders. Maybe the shapeshifting is something every alien will be doing, but it does make me very skeptical of the "Guardians".
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Sep 02 '26
[deleted]
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u/Mr_TDurden Sep 04 '26
I love that, part of this story is that, his constructs are so we'll made with such precision and care that they endure long after the power that's fueling them.
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u/jethawkings Blue Beetle Sep 01 '26
I'm enjoying this take on John but I feel like this is another King's The Vision / Omega Men Moment where I'm just thoughtlessly loving this cool new reinvention and recontextualization of a character meanwhile every other enfranchised fan is calling for his head.
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u/MonsterOfHunts Sep 02 '26 edited Sep 02 '26
As a huge GL fan I’m enjoying the different take on the mythos currently, in a way I’m hoping this will build into something a tad more familiar. But it’s clear the people making this show love and understand the mythos because most of the changes have made logical sense to me. Some others like why are we focused on not feeling afraid specifically and not willpower? Feel more like intentional mysteries of the show (if they don’t eventually get to the point of willpower in the wider DCU it will be disappointing).
However, why is John an artist and not an architect? Or are we building to him getting a career? I don’t expect Kyle Rayner to show up but let’s not steal his one thing.All that being said, it’s just been a good show for the most part.
2
u/PrinceofRavens_1217 Sep 05 '26
I think that intentionally having John sketch a building from memory as his test was hinting at architect.
Architecture is art. They draw building designs.
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u/chronobeard Sep 02 '26 edited Sep 02 '26
Can't speak for others, but as a GL fan, and someone who is not much of a fan of Tom King's output, I am thoroughly enjoying the show.
Like, do I wish we got a superhero show with more superheroing and GL powers all over the place? Yeah, I do. Won't lie. But I get what they're going for here, and I dig the True Detective thing they're going for.
If its just going to be like this in future seasons as well, I might be more of a sourpuss about a GL show not GLing it up enough. But this is a great origin story for DCU John, imo.
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u/JDillaRIP Sep 02 '26
This feels so much like John I don't get why there is hate. This is more like an MCU spiderman situation than a Batman 1989 situation. They are changing the circumstances a bit but the core of the character is still there.
Sidenote: Tim Burton Batman is still great, I don't care if he shoots bullets out of the batwing.
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u/jethawkings Blue Beetle Sep 02 '26
I'm honestly not that well versed in the character that I can give good insight on if it feels like John. I found the JLU Characterization just okay but not compelling nor have the other stuff as well (Acknowledging that I didn't really read Thorne's stuff)
What we have here is compelling and I'm kinda disappointed on the surface level take people are having...
-2
u/Parlett316 Sep 01 '26
Making John an artist is so fucking irritating.
If they make Kyle an architect, I'm going to lose it!
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u/warcomet Sep 01 '26
Only thing i don't get, they cast 2 different actors to play John's "older" parents (Sherman Augustus and Nicole Ari Parker whose eyes are the same as Pierre's), i was hoping to see them towards the end of the episode but i noticed it was the same two actors (with white hair makeups)...makes me wonder if we are getting an ALTERNATE version John (Jane played by Paula Patton?) or a time jump in the next few episodes
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u/dearskorpiomagazine Sep 01 '26
I like this as an alternative green lantern story but I feel like it's trying too hard to flip stuff on its head to fit the budget of the show rather than making the show what makes green lantern exciting and great.
To me, even before I knew about the comics making it a point to talk about having the ability to overcome fear rather than having no fear whatsoever , I never thought it was THAT literal. They're really laying on the no fear aspect thick rather than having the willpower.
I do like it , and it's clear the creators have read their stuff, but I don't think they quite understand why people like it.
3
u/Beastieboy100 Sep 01 '26
I have a funny feeling it will change once John Stewart meets Guy and Superman. Guy has the biggest personality when it comes to will. As for Superman this will probably give John a different outcome on life changing his mentality. While being inspired by Superman strength and will.
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u/MKW69 Sep 01 '26
Good one, but for me, it feels like story doesn't show how much screwed up John should be by this. For years he was groomed, it should have more negative effects. Or that he spent months in one location. We don't see a tent, so i presume he spent all the time in that hole, propably going to hunt for Animals or take a dump. His clothes should be shredded.
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u/Shin-kak-nish Sep 01 '26
I’d say it had negative effects. No one sane would sit in a chair all day waiting for an interview just because they were told to.
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u/MKW69 Sep 01 '26
I remember people going overnight to buy last Harry Potter book, or having a tent to buy Halo 3. This isn't as weird, when it's a chance meeting with a alien.
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u/Shin-kak-nish Sep 01 '26
It’s weird in the context of a job interview. If your bosses don’t respect your time to this extent you’re going to have a bad time in your job.
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u/S1mongreedwell Uncle Sam Sep 01 '26
This isn’t a job interview at Best Buy. This is in interview to be a space cop.
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u/cam412 Sep 01 '26
I have never really followed DC. More of a marvel person. Read a few of the comics as a kid but don’t know much about Green Lantern(s)’ stories, at all. I’m really enjoying this show so far. I was very skeptical based on the trailers but I’m happy I gave it a shot. I think it’s the best superhero tv show yet.
3
u/Beastieboy100 Sep 01 '26
My friend I hope this gets you to read green lantern. The mythos is quite great.
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u/Cyyyyyyx Nightwing Sep 01 '26 edited Sep 01 '26
Will be interesting if the events of 2016 will see the Guardians philosophy slightly change regarding human Lanterns, and if we will see that play out when finding out how Guy got his ring.
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u/meta_cheshire Sep 01 '26
John parents are essentially
"It's easier to regret wasted potential than to admit you never had it."
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u/shinomune Superboy-Prime Aug 31 '26
I love the chapter, but in the end... why seems that they fused Kyle Rayner's origins with John? Being a "chosen one" for the Guardians plus his artistic side. This confuses me a lot. But well, butchering Kyle is one of the Tom King's specialities so seems on point.
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u/deathofsentience Aug 31 '26
I was wondering that too. John was an architect in the comics, why not translate that?
1
u/shotputlover Sep 05 '26
I mean the whole understanding the architecture of a watch is a lot more than art
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u/Thejklay Green Arrow Sep 01 '26
Architects draw
3
u/deathofsentience Sep 01 '26
Sure, and accountants and software developers both use keyboards. Different skillsets.
2
u/PrinceofRavens_1217 Sep 05 '26
No Architects are artists. They draw and design buildings. It's a practical application of art, but still art.
They are absolutely not different skill sets. It's a subset of the overarching banner of artist.
3
u/Beastieboy100 Sep 01 '26
Yeah it is Tom King though. John being the chosen lantern is an interesting twist though I would like the art thing to lead to him being an arhitect.
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u/quirty890 Red Robin Aug 31 '26
John will probably kill his mother at some point.
3
u/quirty890 Red Robin Sep 01 '26
Mb I thought she was gonna be shot in one of the flashbacks. F'ed up parents lmao
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u/gain91 Aug 31 '26
Some parents wants their kids to be doctors, lawyer or engineers and they try to steer them to these direction. But John's is just some real psychos. I mean IRL there are also like that.
16
u/RockstarSuicide Batgirl Aug 31 '26
Am i wrong for thinking green lanterns aren't chosen because they're fearless, but knowing fear and being able to overcome it?
You should be able to know and recognize fear. Otherwise, that's a solid path towards sociopathy. Those lessons are goddamn insane.
I liked how his mom started to change but good lord. A person raised like that is not one i wanna see as a lantern.
"I don't wanna know about the person. What's the mission?" Fuck me, no thank you
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u/marcjwrz Aug 31 '26
That's a massive point about GL rebirth (and why Kyle Rayner is the true motherfucking GOAT).
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u/busdriver_321 Larfleeze Aug 31 '26
It’s episode 3, they are building up to it. "XYZ, you have the ability to overcome great fear" is too iconic to ignore.
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u/choicemeats Aug 31 '26
plus it gives them the option and opportunity in the moment rather than yes/no answer prompt
2
u/RockstarSuicide Batgirl Aug 31 '26
Ok so I wasn't the only one who didn't like the "are you afraid?" Take
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u/choicemeats Aug 31 '26
This would be textbook guardians, to change the wording and call the problem solved
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u/Woggums83 The Flash Aug 31 '26
First of all, I really don’t like John. Aaron has done a marvelous job of playing him.
I’ve never been a John Stewart fan. Hal and Kyle are my favorites. John was probably my least favorite part of JL and JLU, but while my problems with him in the cartoons are that I thought he was boring, Aaron has given him so much character in Lanterns.
I cannot wait to see how the rest of the season plays out.
0
u/Deathblow92 Sep 01 '26
I also have never really liked John. Because he's the most boring Lantern. Yeah his constructs are super elaborate, but the rest of him is so... lame. Hal has the sarcastic rebel Lantern, Kyle is the Jesus-come-again Lantern, Guy is... Guy(and I love to hate him).
And this series is... not selling me. Pierre is doing a great job to be clear, but John being chosen, trained, and "better", while stealing Kyle's background is not doing him any favors in my eyes.
8
u/Woggums83 The Flash Sep 01 '26
tbf i think it's very common for architects to attend art school as well, so i have faith they're not just giving John Kyle's artist background.
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u/Blitzhelios Hal Jordan Aug 31 '26
Well so they gave John a brand new backstory but combined it with his normal one. But man its funny this is the most Damon Lindelof and Tom king origin story known to man (king did something similar in Rorshach) it works but you can tell who came up with this. I do like how they changed the trope and its the mother who is the crazy one.
IDK about Hal bumping into the secretary of defence in a strip club though and deporting a foreign war criminal to Guantanamo I get they want to show the differences but the latter is a little too far for me because hal wouldn't chuck someone into a torture facility.
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u/heythatsprettybad Aug 31 '26
This is the first episode where I really felt the “co-created by Tom King” aspect of the show
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u/ZaniElandra Aug 31 '26
Yeah, that bit reeked of tom “I don’t regret anything about being in the cia 😇” king to me too
2
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u/PassionateYak Aug 31 '26
It was a pretty on the nose a lot but it was solid
3
u/macaptactical Aug 31 '26
Subtlety is nice, but not a hard rule to never break for me. Sometimes I like/appreciate a blunt statement.
Like the classic visual metaphor of a protagonist looking wistfully at a horizon longing for more. Subtle? Not really but damn does it look cool and get a point across.
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u/Waggmans Aug 31 '26
Hal is a dick.🤣
2
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u/RockstarSuicide Batgirl Aug 31 '26
Can't blame him. If you think the guardians are looking to replace you after everything, you'd be pissed
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u/Mddcat04 Aug 31 '26
Yeah, he’s a dick, but he’s also been pretty correct about everything. (He successfully ID’d the aliens, he saw right through the Guardian’s plan to replace him with Jon).
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u/RockstarSuicide Batgirl Aug 31 '26
One constant is the earth based lanterns recognition of the guardians being awful
15
u/dragonshouter Aug 31 '26
I really liked it.
Loved seeing johns past and the circumstances that shaped him. His parents are understandable even with their batshit choices
also: John isn't an architect yet because he is still in art school. Think he will become one later( maybe end of the series)?
also 10 bucks we get an episode like this but Hal's life
7
u/PlainSightMan Aug 31 '26
I hope you keep the 10 bucks, because i wanna see Hal in his prime and Carol maybe.
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Aug 31 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/dragonshouter Aug 31 '26
I meant understandable as I understand why they did what they did. not necessarily that it is a good decision
8
u/CrispyGold Aug 31 '26
Its like, I understand pointing out a black men does not have the security to be fearless in the current world. That is very true.
But they take it to extreme entitlement and pride levels with their obsession to mold John into the perfect soldier all just to prove that they can do it.
Even if it means handing their son over to an alien they barley understand and having resentment for a man who is not even the reason for John Srs trauma.
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u/reeeennnn Aug 31 '26
I can’t believe that some people are conflating John Stewart’s mom’s perspective with that of the Guardians’!! The show explicitly shows us that the ring simply asks the candidate if they’re afraid. That’s how the Guardians choose the ring bearers, not because of a person’s race. This is not a subtext. We are told and shown this. I’ll never understand that a show as simple and at times too on the nose as Lanterns confuses some people. Anyway, great character study episode.
54
u/abductodude Aug 31 '26
I am sure I am not the first person to propose it, but that recurring question of "are you afraid?" seems off to me. I would imagine that at some point in the show, it'll be revealed that fear isn't what matters, but rather the willingness to push beyond it.
Additionally, a moment where John says he is afraid and pushes past it anyway could be what his entire story arc culminates in: the rejection of his upbringing, and the ring choosing people that can overcome fear rather than not feel it.
2
u/Golden_Alchemy Sep 01 '26
It really sounds to me like of the stories of angels in the bible saying "Be not afraid!".
4
u/choicemeats Aug 31 '26
most likely something like this and i think it will soften john towards hal. or also maybe some kind of admission from Hal that he is actually afraid, all the damn time, but that's not what the guardians are really looking for.
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u/Shadowfire_EW Aug 31 '26
Makes me think of a quote: "Bravery is not the absence of fear, it is acting in spite of it". I don't know who the proper attribution for the quote is, I heard it from Red Vs Blue. Specifically, a character who is mostly a coward at the start of the season but ends up sacrificing himself for the safety of his people. He originally misattributed the quote to Shakespeare, but it is likely not his.
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u/Mddcat04 Aug 31 '26
Yeah, notably the rings in the comics say "You have the ability to overcome great fear" when inducting someone.
6
u/Golden_Alchemy Sep 01 '26
Well, that was the change outside and inside the lore of the green lanterns.
A lot of writers had problems writing about a character without fear.
4
u/Mddcat04 Sep 01 '26
Yeah, I think it helps when all your characters are just by default stoic badasses and have struggles / self doubt. Like I really enjoyed Jessica Cruz’s whole early arc, which is all about overcoming fear and self doubt.
3
u/Golden_Alchemy Sep 01 '26
Or the one with Hal that was basically that a Lantern wasn't without fear but that it was capable of overcaming fear.
I remember a writer from the 80s-90s trying to describe Hal as someone that would jump from a building without thinking and saying that he was a bit stupid.
18
u/yuefairchild Mediocre for a Lifetime Aug 31 '26
The Guardian literally went, "bro humans are wild af, we didn't know you guys got traumatized," that's the setup.
12
u/Unfair-Feeling-6819 Hal Jordan Aug 31 '26
Yes. It's much older canon was what person who can become Green Lantern need to be fearless. But then writers understood what no one can be fearless. So they did it in form we know today. Ability to overcome greatest fear. I'm just so afraid they might push John higher than Hal just because Hal was stupid arrogant asshole who didn't understand that and just kept pushing himself to be "fearless". Even despite he still afraid what happened with Martin and other things. And then John say something like "To be Lantern you don't need to be fearless. You need to overcome fear". And that's why John will be "Greatest Lantern" because he first who finally understands that. And to suck as many money from DCAU fans of course.
-15
u/LeonOfSkalitz Aug 31 '26
The butchering of GL worldbuilding this show is doing is killing me bro.
Do you know why in the comics the ring doesn’t ask people if they’re afraid? Because it’s fucking dumb bro.
What is the red ring gonna ask “are you mad bro?”
Yellow is gonna be like “are you scary?”
And let’s not forget about the fact that now every corp is gonna have to have physical costumes. Bruh
6
u/PassionateYak Aug 31 '26
Maybe other corps won't feel like a job so it won't be a uniform, more like skin suit. All in all it's pretty apparent that the physical costumes are a budget preference. Could they afford the cgi for 8 episodes, maybe but is it absolutely necessary, i don't think so.
2
u/sfr202x Aug 31 '26
Kinda but guy Gardner also didn’t have a cgi costume.
2
u/PassionateYak Aug 31 '26
True but maybe they could attribute that to the fact that he works for Maxwell Lord.
4
u/sfr202x Aug 31 '26
The red one can ask if you want vengeance and the yellow if you want to rule/dominate …
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u/OkayTHISIsEpicMeme Aug 31 '26
It’s surprising how uninterested the Guardians are in how their subject species even work. They think everyone’s fine with the rigidity, and it doesn’t seem like they’ve done any introspection after Sinestro.
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u/DoubleE55 Beware my power! Aug 31 '26 edited Aug 31 '26
Yes that’s pretty much the Guardians. Sinestro even with all his faults in being Space Hitler sees the Guardians for what they are and taught Hal to see it too. That’s why the guardians don’t like Hal.
2
u/leoschot Saint Gardner Sep 02 '26
That's not the only reason the Guardians dislike Hal Jordan, but it's certainly their chief complaint.
Hal Jordan in his prime should be written more or less the same as Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon. A loose cannon that's basically on the verge of being a renegade.
6
u/macaptactical Aug 31 '26
Well they are a culture that created the Manhunters. Stuck in their ways maybe after existing for a billion years.
13
u/BlazeBigBang Barry & Wally Aug 31 '26
I can't believe they blueballed us with the guardian like that dude, what the fuck.
-9
u/Complete_Saladilla Aug 31 '26
I overlook some amount of propaganda because it unfortunately does come with the territory on a lot of superhero media, but I draw the line at Green Lantern just casually dropping someone in Guantanamo Bay, infamous torture prison. Why not have Superman send people to Auschwitz next while you're at it, at this point?
Also making a point about the Guardians not knowing how bad minorities have it and that they face fear every day while they simultaneously have those same characters be perfectly fine with belonging to a group that actively terrorises brown people every day is beyond tone deaf, to say the least.
9
u/Mddcat04 Aug 31 '26
Have you thought about maybe what the show is trying to communicate with these writing choices?
Or have you just decided to be big mad about it?
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u/BlazeBigBang Barry & Wally Aug 31 '26
Also making a point about the Guardians not knowing how bad minorities have it and that they face fear every day while they simultaneously have those same characters be perfectly fine with belonging to a group that actively terrorises brown people every day is beyond tone deaf, to say the least.
I don't follow, doesn't this further the point of it? Like John's mother says: "we're barely seen". So it stands to reason that the guardians, who don't really seem to particularly care for Earth, don't look further so they end up going with what's most "seen", if that makes sense? Even John's mother kinda tells this tho their face.
1
u/Complete_Saladilla Aug 31 '26 edited Aug 31 '26
Not really about the Guardians' reaction, rather that the show itself portrays participation in the US military pretty uncritically. I don't expect otherwise from this type of media, to be clear. To some degree you have to look past that as price of entry. It just feels deeply dissonant with the other topics they're trying to tackle simultaneously.
-13
u/skoon Aug 31 '26
The damn blue almost immortal Guardians did not choose Hal Jordan because he is white and they didn’t pass over John Stewart sr because he is Black. I thought that was unnecessary. I also didn’t think they needed to make his mom a crazy abuser. I’m also not really onboard with Hal Jordan being an asshole towards John. I get that he’s arrogant, but I don’t think that needs to translate to him taking it all out on John, who he knows is a Marine sniper.
-4
u/UpsetMycologist1579 Aug 31 '26
Yeah I hate that Hal Jordan is a stereotypical "stubborn old Man" (calling his apprentice "junior"and all 🙄). Sometimes it feels like the premise of this show was written on a napkin 5 minutes before shooting
19
u/chibachoose Aug 31 '26 edited Aug 31 '26
To your first point, they dont really know Hal Jordan and make a general assumption that he lives a privileged life, which may be true. But I think the actual fearlessness is that John Sr. Has a family to take care of and responsibilities while this Hal Jordan is actually alone and has nothing to lose.
I think this loneliness they've mentioned is before is precisely why hes a dick. Because he thinks John is a threat to the only thing hes ever cared about, being Green Lantern.
2
u/skoon Aug 31 '26
I do like that take on it. Hal being protective of his status. It still makes him a little more immature than i think the character should be given what he's been through and how old he is in the show.
3
u/chibachoose Aug 31 '26
Its interesting you think its immature because I think the feeling of holding on to your identity is something older people deal with all the time. Lots of older people have a hard time when it comes to retirement because they've been at the job for so long its become a part of them. I feel like this is amplified even more for Hal because he doesnt have anyone else. If there's any immaturity to it, I would think its because he deals with everything in an incredibly childish way because he has no one around him he respects to reign him in (until the Sheriff in the current story).
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u/temporal712 Aug 31 '26
Everyone will talk about the Abusive parents, and rightfully so because they are psycho, but I did like the inclusion of his mother being a teacher. She had very valid points about a black man starting out scared in America and how one must raise their hand to be seen.
It harkens back to John's more activist qualities and history that's been on the back burner since his Marine backstory. Knowing he gets those values from his mother is a nice way to blend those two characteristics together.
That being said, I also appreciate and abhor that the mother was the one truly pushing this abuse onto John. Nice subversion from episode 1 thinking his father is insane, and it turns out his mom is even worse!
If this wasn't a superhero show, that kid would have shot his mother and not felt a thing. That was some Homelander parenting right there!
-5
u/UpsetMycologist1579 Aug 31 '26
It's a bit painful that Tom King and Lindeloff portray John Stewart's parents like psychos and we need to sympathize with their BS just to endure some US military propaganda
25
u/Mddcat04 Aug 31 '26
US military propaganda
We watching different episodes? The military does not come off well here. Jon is trained, used, and then cast aside for the sake of political convenience.
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u/Gan-san Aug 31 '26
Exactly. Some people see any inclusion of the military in a show and automatically assume propaganda and just totally turn their brain off.
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u/UpsetMycologist1579 Aug 31 '26
And the consecuences for following orders are that you might become the greatest superhero in the universe no matter what background you might have
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u/Substantial-Hat-2556 Sep 11 '26
The consequence is that psycho alien lady thinks you make a great stooge
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u/Complete_Saladilla Aug 31 '26
You genuinely might be the only person with a brain in this comment section
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u/MillionDollarMistake Sep 04 '26
Idk man, nothing about this seems to portray the military in a great light. John's obsession with following orders also doesn't seem like a positive character trait, it's already bit him in the ass a few times.
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u/temporal712 Aug 31 '26 edited Aug 31 '26
I don't feel like that was the lesson at all from this episode. They were very clearly portrayed as abusive and not to sympathize with them. His mom had some valid points about being seen as a black man, and the differences in race in America, but they were still clearly villains.
Also the US was portrayed poorly here as well. John was on a black op to assassinate someone on foreign soil that was making things inconvenient for the government. When a politician slips up in a titty bar, John's entire career is destroyed to save face because they got caught doing extraterritorial wetwork. Not exactly Hoorah material here.
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u/UpsetMycologist1579 Aug 31 '26
Oh I completely agree with you with about the villains angle.
That mom's speech was probably the best part of the episode also because of the GL historical relations to polítics and race,
but what I meant to say was that it was a pain in the ass to endure this new John Stewart "origin" and this abusive relation simply because Tom King and Lindeloff want to use it to show us how "fearless", "powerful" or whatever John is.
We could've gotten there in a million different ways, but they chose the psycho parents and we're supposed to pretend we like that decision.
In the end, sure, they are portrayed as abusers, but there's a glorification of that abuse via John being THE Green Lantern of the show (because we all know he's not going to have a Game of Thrones tragic ending due to the results of growing up from those psychos or whatever).
P.S. : Just another nitpick, but I would've loved that the show had told us that John is at least partially deaf because of the amount of apples blown near his head, but apart from the abusive origin it's also obvious they're selling us US military propaganda, so that's not going to happen.
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u/MillionDollarMistake Sep 04 '26
In the end, sure, they are portrayed as abusers, but there's a glorification of that abuse via John being THE Green Lantern of the show (because we all know he's not going to have a Game of Thrones tragic ending due to the results of growing up from those psychos or whatever).
That's not the vibe I'm getting. Right now John is being praised as the perfect Green Lantern by the Guardians, but the Guardians don't seem like the best of people either. They seem superficially good to an extent (or at least well intentioned) but there's definitely something weird going on with them. To me it looks like they're setting up a theme of John being taken advantage of by the various authority figures in his life. First by his parents, then the military, and now the Guardians.
I would be very surprised if this ends with the Guardians being shown as fully right. I also predict John's upbringing will continue to bite him in the ass like it has a little so far, and maybe he'll even walk away from the whole thing realizing that this dream of being a Lantern was never worth it. Maybe that's why Gardner is the current Lantern; John saw how fucked up the Guardians were and left them. Whether he's actually a Lantern/superhero afterwards who knows.
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u/temporal712 Aug 31 '26
See I think I had a different interpretation. Sure, his parents are teaching him to be fearless, but by no means is the show trying to paint "fearless" as something good or powerful.
The Guardian asks if there is a distinction between being raised and being programmed, and John states there is one, but doesn't elaborate because he can't see that he WAS programmed. He wasn't raised like his brothers.
The Guardians other main concern is disobedience. Remember Sinestro rebelled and killed one earlier, and Hal regularly disobeys them because after 20 years on the job he knows they are a bunch of twats with no room for nuance. Notice he got the job once he got his orders and never once questioned them. They are picking him because they don't want a hero, they want a soldier who will follow orders unquestionably. Even if those orders are bad ones. His parents basically bred him for that exact quality.
Ge won't have a GoT tragic end, but I think John's arc for the show will be coming to terms with how he was raised, and recognizing that being fearless doesn't make a hero. It isn't so much as glorification as coming to terms with how he was raised. Hal has been pushing and needling him to get a reaction, and John is going to eventually blow up at him, finally cracking the armor.
After all, the one thing they have purposely differed in the show is the selection process. It's not "Are you afraid?" Normally, But "John Stewart of sector 2814. You have the ability to overcome great fear. Welcome to the Green Lantern Corps.
Also, in case you didn't see it since I edited my original comment, but the US was portrayed poorly here as well. John was on a black op to assassinate someone on foreign soil that was making things inconvenient for the government. When a politician slips up in a titty bar, John's entire career is destroyed to save face because they got caught doing extraterritorial wetwork. Not exactly Hoorah propaganda material here.
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u/StealthHikki2 Nightwing Aug 31 '26
I mean it’s Tom King. Character assassination is just expected at this point.
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u/beezer210 DC Comics Aug 31 '26
They just became so obsessed with what their son would become. I mean, I do see that from time to time, and kids buckled under an insane amount of pressure.
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u/temporal712 Aug 31 '26
Oh absolutely! The Dad spiraling because he failed a test he didn't know was happening and missing out on greatness, and his mom thinking pushing it onto the son will some how fix everything in their family, except for John because he is meant for other things aside from family.
It's completely like parents of major league athletes living vicariously through their children because they couldn't make it, and thus make this kids lives hell.
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u/koke84 Aug 31 '26
Why do people just tolerate Damon Lindelof as some white savior. Bro really likes to talk for people its so fucking weird
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u/yuefairchild Mediocre for a Lifetime Aug 31 '26
Lindelof: [uses his platform to let minority creatives tell their stories]
Internet: "why do you keep writing about race, Single Guy That Created The Entire Show, you're a white guy"
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u/UpsetMycologist1579 Aug 31 '26
I never understood the "greatness" of his Watchmen and now Lanterns feels like a deja vu
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u/Guildenpants Aug 31 '26
The episode was written by a black woman. In the 3 minute "inside the episode" bit she even talks about how important it was for her as someone raising a black son. The fuck are you talking about?
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u/firedrago1 Nightwing Aug 31 '26
Idiots, man. Can't even sit through the credits before they jump online to spout some nonsense.
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u/billymadison231 Kyle Rayner Aug 31 '26
Boy I do not like Jonh’s parents at all. Honestly think I like John a little less after that episode but I also feel like that’s somewhat the point and there’s a lot of growth left for him in the rest of the season.
I also wonder if we start to see him become his own person while working this case with Hal.
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u/Beastieboy100 Sep 01 '26 edited Sep 01 '26
Honestly I like John more after this episode. Just not his parents. This to me feels like the start of a personal journey for John. How meeting Hal, Guy and later on Superman will change his way on life.
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u/billymadison231 Kyle Rayner Sep 01 '26
I very much agree with this being the start of a personal journey for John and I’m excited to see where it takes him.
It will be cool to see him in Man Of Tomorrow and think of the journey we watched him go through.
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u/Beastieboy100 Sep 01 '26
I am looking forward to man of tomorrow even more. The ensemble cast of Supes, John Stewart, Blue beetle, Supergirl, Mr terrific, Guy and Hawkgirl is going to be great.
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u/Reaper_da_ntf Aug 31 '26
Is the yellow in the lantern ring at the beginning alluding to Parallax being in the Central Emotion Battery or wtv its called?
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u/GoxBoxSocks Aug 31 '26
I wish i liked this angle for John more. It just feels unnecessary. What's wrong with a kid overcompensating for growing up in an abusive home to become a decorated Marine and eventual architect?
This manufactured life belittles his accomplishments including getting the ring.
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u/zoinks48 Aug 31 '26
So was Hal killed by a marine sniper whose name rhymes with shmon stewart in episode one? Was john chosen by a Guardian or a manhunter?
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u/AegonTheMeh Supergirl Aug 31 '26
"I'm as human as anyone. I love, I get scared. I wake up every morning, and despite not knowing what to do, I put one foot in front of the other, and I try to make the best choices that I can.” - Superman
My GOAT knows it’s okay to be afraid.
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u/the-unfamous-one Booster Gold Aug 31 '26
Wow, didn't expect a pure backstory episode. Fianlly explained a lot of what I've been wondering.
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u/Altruistic_Manner802 Aug 31 '26
They did the impossible... They made stern military John an interesting character!
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u/Mac4491 All will be well. I'm a dog. Aug 31 '26
I’ve always been pretty bored by John in the comics. This show has made him more interesting in this one episode than many comic arcs I’ve read.
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u/Altruistic_Manner802 Aug 31 '26
People did joke that before Green Lantern War Jornal, John only had one good story, Green Lantern: Mosaic, and that was written by a guy convicted of possession of cp
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u/Golden_Alchemy Sep 01 '26
I mean, Cosmic Odyssey is there and that was done with the art of Mike Mignola, so saying he only had one good story is lying.
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u/Altruistic_Manner802 Sep 01 '26
Good solo story, that was kinda team book
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u/Golden_Alchemy Sep 01 '26
yeah, but it is also the one story that changed his character arc for decades.
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u/Beastieboy100 Sep 01 '26
I liked Green lantern war journal only because of his mom and sister. It showed layers to his character that made him great.
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u/UpsetMycologist1579 Aug 31 '26
Did you not see the Justice League Cartoon?
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u/LucasOIntoxicado Aug 31 '26
how would you describe his personality in the cartoon?
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u/UpsetMycologist1579 Aug 31 '26
Stubborn, stoic, upright? And yet fair and protective of the people he cares about? I'm talk about the Bruce Timm's Justice League (not sure if there is another one with Stewart), but then again JL had great writers like McDuffie, so perhaps his character is indeed mainly a boring one. His subplot with Hawkgirl was awesome
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u/bingcognito Aug 31 '26
Yeah the dude in Lanterns reminds me a lot of the John Stewart from the animated Justice League shows. He even looks like him. Perfect casting on this show in my opinion.
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u/klubsanwich Batman Aug 31 '26
Phil LaMarr did a lot of great work breathing life into the character, but he does come across as a little dull on paper.
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u/chibachoose Aug 31 '26
This was the best episode of the season yet. I was hooked to see what was going to happen and fucking hal jordan made me laugh at the end.
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u/bingcognito Aug 31 '26
As someone who grew up on The Cosby Show, the "Midwest Huxtables" line got a chuckle out of me.
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u/warcomet Sep 01 '26
it was funny cause it was supposed to be 2016, Cosby was great then, his uhm Rape thing happened in 2018..if he hadn't made that comment, i was still under the impression it was 2026
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u/SpankySharp1 Sep 07 '26
That isn't true. Hannibal Burress was talking about it openly in 2013/2014. Obviously there were court records of it before that, but it became well-known publicly years before 2016.
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u/sfr202x Aug 31 '26
Yeah he is an asshole but I can’t really hate him
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u/Beastieboy100 Sep 01 '26
Yeah that just Hal though. He is the asshole you need to fight the good fight.
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u/soldier101br Aug 31 '26
With his Childhood,this John could take any colour From the light spectrum and It would be justified. And to think that Hal Jordan played a role on every moment of his life since he got chosen will need to have a confrontation,an arguement,in the very least.
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Aug 31 '26
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u/soldier101br Aug 31 '26
That was for the crayons
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u/SJBaerosols Sep 01 '26
the crayons
As long as he's taking on Kyle Rayner aspects...maybe John becomes the every-Lantern lol
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u/Responsible_Ad_2242 Aug 31 '26
El guardián dijo que es preocupante que Hal todavía tenga afecto por Sinestro, ¿quizás se adaptarán a que los guardianes quieren erradicar las emociones?
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u/HopeFarron Aug 31 '26
Bro, John's backstory feels like a villain origin story. If he didn't get chosen as a Green Lantern this is how you create a little psychopath villain. Which I find really interesting to his backstory!
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u/PlainSightMan Aug 31 '26
I really want Amon Sur to be a villain for him because of this.
Theres a great contrast.
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u/Mddcat04 Aug 31 '26
Its got elements of the backstory of one of the villains from the Cruz / Baez Green lanterns run. This guy:
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Frank_Laminski_(Prime_Earth))
Basically he trained himself for years to be a lantern, but was rejected by the ring that eventually went to Baez, and went a bit crazy as a result.
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u/jethawkings Blue Beetle Sep 02 '26
I forgot how peak Humphries run was. I should check it out again.
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u/Shiplord13 Batman Aug 31 '26
Yeah. Honestly I am expecting the reason he doesn't have the ring in present day, is him rejecting the fucked up path his parents and the Guardians sent him down that he didn't get a choice in the matter. The fact that we find out the full scope of his childhood and his parents falling into this insanity when he was a baby raising him like some fearless survivalist without a single thought that this is their child and making him think it was a all good and okay.
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u/Responsible_Ad_2242 Aug 31 '26
Agree, it's like dexter, but instead of the code it's join the GL corp
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u/HopeFarron Aug 31 '26 edited Aug 31 '26
It was great. I think it's fantastic that the show acknowledges that his parents didn't make him a man without fear, because he shows fear in other ways than being scared of a gun pointed at him. He's a kid scared to be caught drawing by his mom or living his life and being an artist. It's not until his mom LETS him go to art school that he does. They made him a man that takes orders whether it's to his detriment or not, like being scapegoated in the military. And after the Guardians problems with Hal disobeying orders, they want a lantern that obeys them. Fantastic episode.
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Aug 31 '26
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u/TriPolar3849 Cassandra Wayne Aug 31 '26
If I get dropped into a mysterious building in another dimension, it's probably safer to stay where I'm told lol. Who knows if he could've even left on his own?
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u/sworedmagic Aug 30 '26
I literally can’t wait for this show every week it’s insane how excited for Sundays i am again
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u/jetlightbeam Aug 30 '26
Its crazy how exciting this show is for me. And the way episode 2 was better than episode 1 makes me hopeful for what's to come
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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '26
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