r/Daredevil • u/shotofpatron • 1d ago
MCU Open Letter to Brad Winderbaum from a member of Team Save Daredevil
Hey Brad.
I want to introduce myself. I’m one of the official team members behind Save Daredevil, the movement you accused of not doing enough to get watchers to Daredevil: Born Again over the past two seasons. I speak for me, not for Team Save Daredevil.
Obviously, you are unaware of what Save Daredevil actually is. We are not a hashtag that happened to go viral, we are a coordinated campaign. We are a group of about ten badass women with complementary skills that passionately loved the Daredevil show on Netflix, and wanted to see more seasons with the same cast, creatives, and tone. We are not free labor for Marvel’s marketing, even though during the 7 years that we were active, a small number of people did speculate that we were secretly affiliated with Disney.
We hyped the fuck out of Daredevil, including its cast and creatives, for seven fucking years. And we won. We got more than I ever imagined.
That’s it. That’s what we set out to do, and we got it. Our message ever since has been that we will always try to hype these characters.
Save Daredevil is retired. But you know what? Some of us are available for consulting, if you would like us to help Marvel market their own products. We know why Daredevil was loved and how to energize the fandom. If you want our help: Pay us.
We assumed from the fact that Marvel never reached out to us, at all, in any capacity, it meant that you didn’t want or need our help. And we are okay with that. But if you are going to go to the press and act as though Save Daredevil is the problem, you are incredibly wrong.
Meanwhile, I went ahead and bought watchdaredevil.com. We might just do something with it while we wait for you to reach out.
(Edited for formatting to hopefully make it more readable.)
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u/NatashaMurdock 1d ago
And let's not even talk about the fact that if you go to the official Marvel's Daredevil page on Facebook there is STILL a button that says "Sign Up" and when you click it IT TAKES YOU TO NETFLIX. I mean, talk about inept social media.
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u/inscruciating 1d ago
Thank you and the team for all that you've done! It's always been such a genuine and lovely movement, and you're definitely appreciated. I support what you've said here as well. :)
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u/shotofpatron 1d ago
We've enjoyed every bit if it and getting some version of the show back is all we ever wanted in return.
But if Marvel wants more, they can talk to us directly!
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u/theblackcanaryyy 17h ago
as a total random person, i’m sure my opinion is moot, but just wanted to say: i love that you’ve set these boundaries and have offered your consulting services because you have recognized your worth and are demanding (respectfully) that others recognize your worth as well. super important for everyone (especially girls and women) to see other women demand what they are worth and to stand up for themselves instead of staying silent. so often women are expected to just take it, to not make waves, to not ask for more, to accept blame, to stand there and smile whenever we get screwed over.
i’m ready for a new era of women standing up for themselves, regardless of who it may inconvenience.
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u/fitasfiddle 1d ago
It's really presumptuous of Marvel to lay the blame of lack of viewership on you guys, when that is THEIR job. Been following this campaign since it was first conceived, keep doing what y'all have been doing ✊
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u/haunting_froyo22 1d ago
Like maybe actually make a good show? Maybe use your resources and connect stuff more and put Matt in the movies to introduce him to the casual audiences? 🙄
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u/fitasfiddle 1d ago
They can't even put Matt in his own show. He's the main character and has so minimal screen time it's absurd.
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u/haunting_froyo22 22h ago
Because Dario the showrunner has a hard on for Fisk and his supporting cast lmao. They had a whole storyline for Daniel, Buck, etc that NEVER once connected to Matt. To give as a side by side example, Ray Nadeem in S3 of the Netflix show had his whole own storyline, yet it and his character still connected to Matt in a significant way.
Meanwhile Born Again has 5 less episodes and with less than an hour each yet has the audacity to give characters whole subplots that never connects significantly in any way to Matt, the MAIN character. It's called DAREDEVIL, so every storyline and subplot should always connect back to Matt in some way. Daniel died without ever meeting Matt lmao.
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u/shotofpatron 11h ago
Now you have me thinking about how Kirsten should have had all that screentime that Daniel or Buck had.
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u/Remarkable-Key-9335 1d ago
He actually talked about his appreciation of SaveDaredevil in the very same interview, and has talked about it in the past too. He specifically said how as a fan he felt like he was one of those fans supporting SaveDaredeil to try to get Marvel to bring DD back, and save Daredevil and the fans are the only reason it's back. When he says "where was #WatchDaredevil" he wasn't targeting or talking about the campaign or anything, he was literally just punctuating his point on that his only leverage to try to get more seasons made is viewership and unfortunately Born Again didn't have good viewership.
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u/Repulsive-Okra3512 1d ago
I think the unfortunate suggestion in that statement on #WatchDaredevil, regardless intentional or not, is that the fans who supported Save Daredevil didn’t watch the show, and that might feel like a slap in the face, especially when you were one of the ones who poured in time and effort into, you know, saving Daredevil.
Also, personally, I think the fans have done their part with Save Daredevil. They thought the Netflix series good enough to save. Marvel agreed. It’s then up to Marvel to create a good enough product and effective enough marketing to get people watching the new show and keep fans as fans and viewers.
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u/MattMurdockSolosU 1d ago
I feel like the reaction to Brad's comment is understandable. He shouldnt have worded it like that, and his wording has seemed to lead to a lot of people using that comment to poke fun at the show and fandom for not doing enough even if that isnt what he meant I think people are gonna feel slighted against because of that lol.
it also might be just coupled with the frustration of how poorly handled this show was both in the final product we got and the marketing only for it to then get cancelled and then have this comment which even if it was misinterpreted may have people in the fandom feel like theyre having the finger pointed at them for the show's cancellation even if that's not the reality of the situation. it doesn't make them right but the position is 100% understandable.
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u/Repulsive-Okra3512 1d ago
I think to take Brad's statement in good faith, he's just voicing his frustrations about having his hands tied, that is, without the numbers to show for it, he can't get the okay from the higher ups to keep the show going.
But what OP said is also true (if I read her sentiments correctly): he shouldn't be abusing fans' love and asking for their free labour.
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u/Scary-Command2232 1d ago
I saw Daredevil after Charlie was already being rumoured to come back otherwise I would have asked if I could help, but I have been incredibly impressed with your campaign, unique in tv history because it was not toxic.
The passion you had, the kindness you have shown to both fans and the execs at Marvel, the incredible amount of time you have spent on trying to bring back what became my favourite Netflix show, has been amazing. I have persuaded many clients globally to watch Daredevil and have used your campaign to highlight now good it is.
I know Charlie and Vincent have said time and time again that it was thanks to your campaign and the fans you kept encouraging that brought them back. There is no way that Marvel would have commissioned an 18 episode series without your campaign.
So thank you.
I am astonished to learn that Marvel never reached out to you. That is disgraceful as far as I'm concerned. I assumed you all would at least be invited to premieres etc, and when yesterday I saw Brad's comments I cringed.
They are 100% at fault for the fall in viewership and should have some backbone and take the responsibility rather than trying to pass the buck. Brad owes you an apology and Feige should at least do the decent thing and compliment you all publicly.
I want more of Charlie's DD, so will support your campaign but I hope after BA3, which I will watch, DD comes back in films and far away from Brad's hands.
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u/Next1999 1d ago
Disney used the same footage that had already been filmed—the same footage that got Corman and Ord fired—to create a collage that tried to replicate the quality of the original, but with almost no advertising. Did they seriously think that would work? Did they care more about money than the story they were telling, and then blame the fans?!
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u/_Alex_Zer0_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
You guys deserved better. So much better.
I’ll be completely honest — I think Save Daredevil was a mistake. Not the mission, not the campaign, not any of your efforts, but what it ultimately got us. Born Again (in blunt terms) really fucking sucked, and it was an insult to not just the artistry behind the original show, but to your love for the work, and everything you did to try and revive it. Marvel gave you nothing you asked for but (some of) the actors and the name of the IP — they didn’t even hire back any of the stunt coordinators or writers or other production staff from the original show.
It’s completely disgusting that Marvel’s spitting on you a second time now. After giving us a bastardized shell of what was the top of the line for superhero media, they’re trying to blame their shitty planning and production on the group that got the support to make that bastardization in the first place.
I guess all this is to say thank you so much for everything you and Save Daredevil have done, and I’m pissed as hell that Marvel continues to smear the name of their magnum opus. Fuck Brad Winderbaum, fuck Marvel, and fuck Disney
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u/AnAddictWithAPenis 1d ago
I wish I could upvote this brilliant comment a million times.
Disney just thought they could do an inferior show with horrible decisions all around while saying oh look we brought back Matt and Fisk's actors and the ratings would pop off with no effort.
And then the show is barely marketed at all and there's no buzz around it and when it launches everyone can see it's not the same and most decide not to stick around and then we're to blame for not watching...
In all honesty I'm relieved it's over, I have been invested into daredevil for a decade and I'm just a sad man now.
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u/haunting_froyo22 1d ago
Fuck Dario Scardapane too! No, he didn't "fix" the show from the pre-overhaul version. He just dug a deeper hole and it's clear how much he doesn't actually like Daredevil and particularly Foggy.
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u/After-Wishbone-5804 2h ago edited 1h ago
He and what seems to be a lot of the public faces behind the scenes of born again come across as so “not the best in the business”-
Some of the attitude in interviews are a great explanation to why it’s not as good as the og show. Sometimes when they speak about the og show it feels like they have an almost inferiority complex, or are doing things in the new show just to be different to it.
Scardapane, winderbaum, benson and Moorhead. you can see it even in a simple interview, how they speak about their decisions in the direction of the show, why it’s worse , the creative decisions etc etc.
even Charlie cox calling the show “gravy, where it’s extra, you can choose to believe it exists or not” (paraphrasing). He knows born again embarrassed the og show.
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u/_Alex_Zer0_ 1d ago
Ehhhh, I’m a bit more lenient with Scardapane. I don’t think he understands the series nearly as much as fans of Born Again were claiming with the overhaul, but I don’t really blame him and the writers as much since they were given an already shitty hand with BA’s poor planning.
That said I personally wouldn’t want him back as showrunner again
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u/haunting_froyo22 22h ago
Sorry but Dario sidelined Matt in S2 bigtime. He didn't take any care with the dialogue writing for him, sometimes Matt doesn't even get to say anything in multiple scenes, they just make him sit there quietly. What a fundamental misunderstanding of the character. I just can't take the disrespect that he's doing to Matt in his OWN SHOW. If Dario wanted to do a Kingpin show so bad, then he should've pitched one to Marvel and left Born Again to a showrunner who actually loves Matt Murdock and doesn't think Foggy is some throwaway comic relief he can sacrifice all wily-nily just because he has a bias for Karen.
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u/FeilVei2 1d ago
Everything about this comment appeals to my senses. Thank you. Born Again was a profound betrayal of what made me adore the original Daredevil show and even after plenty of my (frankly quite vitriloic) comments I still feel like I haven't managed to put into words why that is and how it feels like.
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u/theblackcanaryyy 17h ago
i am soooo happy that someone else feels the same way about born again that i do.
i’m not on the sub frequently, but everything i’ve (personally) seen has been praising the daredevil: born again. i’ll be honest, i was really surprised because i thought it was pretty awful **when you compare it** to the original netflix version. maybe i just need to rewatch it, but it feels like the personal relationships are superficial: with foggy gone and no appearance of Hogarth, a minimal and lackluster appearance from Jessica (writer’s fault, not hers), barely a glance at the relationship between Karen and Matt, no Father or equivalent… idk. maybe i’m being too harsh. but the point i’m trying to make is that the new version of DD is missing all the things that made the original SO DAMN GOOD. which, to add on to things that were missing, i didn’t notice any single shot fight scenes (unrelated, but single shot fight scenes are like, my favorite thing, and if you’re looking for good ones, John Wick movies, especially the fourth one, has quite a few).
it just all felt very superficial and i’m not sure what the better word is to describe it. like DD in the past has had symbolic imagery, relationships, etc.
My point is that i agree with you and i’m glad i’ve found my people lol
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u/ActsOfDan 1d ago
As a lifelong Daredevil fan, I'm really grateful for what you and the team did. Not just what you did, but in the way you conducted yourselves too. Pretty much every fandom has took a toxic turn over the past few years, but I'll remember this community from before and how nice it was to talk to fellow Daredevil fans.
I know Charlie and the gang appreciate you all too.
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u/shotofpatron 1d ago
❤️ We know this fandom is amazing. We know the cast is amazing. Save Daredevil is everything that it is because of this fandom and I personally hate to see the fans put down in any way.
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u/Persefone1976 14h ago
I am not from "save Daredevil" but as I fan I wanted Marvel's Daredevil back, I mean, I understand it is another company and another creative team, but the original Daredevil had three showrunners and still it was the same series.
With Disney Daredevil I found that for most of the time the writers didn't want it to write the show the fans wanted, just the show THEY wanted, very often disregarding the fans, for instance, the death of Foogy. Most of the fans were unhappy, but they forced it because this is what THEY wanted. Who cares about the fans? and later start complaining about the fans not wanting to watch their show.
When Disney offered a quality product didn't have audience problems: WandaVision, Loki, Agatha all again (and it was a low budget series), Moonknight...
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u/wasmayonnaisetaken 11h ago
I dunno, I feel they are in fact trying to write too much for the fans that is the issue. Not in a sensible way though. They took the most hyped aspects of the original show (Matt himself, Kingpin, aura moments, fight scenes, violence) and emphasised it as much as they could, to tell the fans "Look, dont worry, the new show has all the things you love about the old one". But they just dont have the writing power of the Netflix series. Whatever showrunner throughout the seasons, the Netflix version just had the juice and substance in the writing. Nothing felt forced.
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u/murdockmysteries 1d ago
I hear you, Sis!
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u/murdockmysteries 1d ago
Also... I might add that while being involved with this campaign, I became a literal unpaid hype/marketing machine for Daredevil at my very serious day job as a banker. I used to carry campaign cards (the Nelson, Murdock & Page ones we created) and hand them out to my actual financial clients during small talks about hobbies, and get them to watch the show. I turned actual regular banking clients into Daredevil fans.
Yes, that happened. So no one can dare blame me for not hyping DD enough. Jeez!
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u/dmreif 1d ago
Get people to watch the show would require a marketing effort that I don't think Disney or Marvel seemed too willing to invest much in. They just released that one "teaser" that was literally just the NYCC2025 teaser as is with no new footage, then relied on Tiktok/Instagram/YouTube Shorts reels to do the rest.
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u/knfreckles 1d ago
Marvel ignored the fact that Save Daredevil is an all female run campaign. It’s marketing gold! Marvel should promote that women read comics and watch superhero shows. You want viewers so bad? Promote it to the other 50% of the population.🤯
The lack of feminine merch is also a bummer. I have seen so many feminine items for other male characters. I was ready to throw all my money at Marvel for cute Daredevil items. Unless its hiding from me I think I own most of the feminine merch. I have the pink sweater from Box Lunch, red cardigan from Her Universe, the 2 Loungefly bags, and the DD necklace from Girls Crew. Most of the merch is masculine. And for the love of God I just want a V-neck shirt! 😆
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u/Persefone1976 14h ago
Yes, this is something Marvel is doing better than DC (Wandavision, Agatha all again). James Gunn of course wants to appeal all audiences, but as a woman i was impressed about all the misoginy I found when Supergirl, and yes, maybe it wasn't as good as it was expected but, it was horrible to read all the furious men complaining about doing something for girls because "girls do not read comics" and demanding to stop doing anything from women. So good there is some space for women free of hostility, unless in Marvel.
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u/glomdii 1d ago
I only even learned of #SaveDaredevil after Born Again started, and I was still appalled when I read that nasty comment from them. Y'all clearly did so much work, it's not your fault BA was quite ass. (Even though I still love it cause I'll love anything Daredevil.) THEY decided to fuck up the characters, themes, and tone we all love. Even the amazing acting from the whole cast can't always save a poor script, and casual viewers just aren't gonna stick around if it's not good.
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u/Remarkable-Key-9335 1d ago
He actually talked about his appreciation of SaveDaredevil in the very same interview, and has talked about it in the past too, I would invite you to first watch the actual interview before putting otu a statement like this. He specifically said how as a fan he felt like he was one of those fans supporting SaveDaredeil to try to get Marvel to bring DD back, and save Daredevil and the fans are the only reason it's back. When he says "where was #WatchDaredevil" he wasn't targeting or talking about the campaign or anything, he was literally just punctuating his point on that his only leverage to try to get more seasons made is viewership and unfortunately Born Again didn't have good viewership.
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u/Anonymous51419 1d ago
SaveDaredevil already happened years ago. It did its job.
Born Again really isn't worth to save unlike the Netflix show.
It's just not the same. We're not going to get lucky again. Lightning rarely strikes twice.
I can tell some of you are newer or on the younger side of things. This isn't a new thing. #SaveDaredevil isn't something that just happened.
And unlike before. To us, the public it's not like we don't know he'll be back. He will. Just be patient. The show may be gone but the characters are far from gone.
Movies baby.
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u/dmreif 1d ago edited 10h ago
Matt being in the movies would be a downgrade.
EDIT: This is largely because movies have to structure their stories differently from how TV shows are, especially since they have to tell their stories in less time.
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u/MattMurdockSolosU 1d ago
I feel like on one hand it depends on whether the movies he's in could put him in actual completely new & interesting scenarios that his show just refused to by bringing back Fisk, ie facing against a new threat that is able to stand on their own and has some other pre-existing characters to bounce around but I generally agree that movies just dont allow the same level of breathing room and my love for daredevil isnt just matt himself but the world he interacts with and against, like the world of the show itself. As much as it nice to see charlie again like I dont like the idea the last time I may see this character is in a movie that isn't going to want to hold any of that weight of the history of the character & his world the way that his own show could
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u/Anonymous51419 1d ago
Wtf are you on about no it wouldn't.
It's not even an agree to disagree situation here.
Disney+ Marvel shows struggle and barely if at all make their money back. Born Again has had problem after problem and the viewer numbers show this.
We haven't had a Daredevil movie since the Affleck one in 2003. Over 20 years ago.
Daredevil is one of Marvel's most beloved and recognized characters. People are drooling at the mouth for a team up with Spider-Man.
The amount of characters Daredevil can team up and fight is high. We've stuck to Kingpin most of the time as a main threat.
It's time to switch gears. A Daredevil movie with Charlie Cox would make so much money. Even if it's a mediocre as Born Again it'll make bank. If it's amazing it'll make even more.
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u/Anxious_Ad7707 1d ago
Vi Born again en Disney religiosamente cada capítulo que salia de las 2 temporadas y comparti todo lo que pude en redes pero no se le hizo mucha publicidad a la temporada 2, por las razones que sean
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u/S_lopez805 20h ago
The production of season one of Born Again was terrible and it was bad Frankenstein's monster of a season that it turned off people like myself that binged watched the original Daredevil on Netflix on day one from watching the second season. It's already going to be season three and I still don't care to go watch season two anything soon.
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u/latrodectal 1d ago edited 1d ago
lmao exfuckingscuse me?????
EDIT: directed towards brad, in case that’s not clear. disney didn’t even do as much work for this show. hell, neither did netflix.
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u/ItsRedditRusso 22h ago
I'm sorry, but if I was Brad Winderbaum and I read this deliberately twisted and misconstrued reinterpretation of what he said, the last thing I'd wanna give you is a job. I'd rethink your strategy if you think this is the best way to get his attention. Why would he ever want to reach out and talk to you when you're already operating in such bad faith and literally making up lies about him for nothing but attention?
Maybe you should go back and rewatch the interview, because a lot of what he said doesn't match up with what you said whatsoever.
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u/Persefone1976 13h ago edited 13h ago
you know, all this chat reminds me another show, with large female fanbase too, that was saved by the fans. Lucifer.
But I don't know, maybe it was because from the cancellation from Fox went directly to Netflix and they were able to keep most of the staff (I guess, I don'tk now, I remember the news about Netflix saving the show were made public just the last days before the contracts with the staff ended...), that Lucifer keep going with the same style.... so Lucifer lasted several seasons more, something that it is unusual in Netflix.
Maybe Disney Daredevil staff should have learn from Lucifer. Don't change what makes a show work.
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u/Training_Currency_10 1d ago
Having a successful hashtag that took 7 years to get anything done with is already decently telling of the viewership
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u/AKF2 1d ago edited 1d ago
Save Daredevil formed at the end of 2018. Born Again was announced in 2022. Before that was a moratorium where Disney couldn't plan anything around the character. It's not the fault of the campaign nor the wider fandom that Marvel fumbled and very publicly fired the original showrunners and frankensteined the first season.
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u/shotofpatron 1d ago
"to get anything done with" is very telling that you have no clue what happened in those 7 years.
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u/Training_Currency_10 1d ago
What a Matt Murdock cameo and 2 seasons of a show on a platform with continuously dwindling viewership?
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u/RetiredStrummer 1d ago
most of the reactions I read to that comment were along the lines of "lmaoooo daredevil fans made so much noise about bringing it back only to not show up when they did 🥀" and it was pretty aggravating, because it's not as if we weren't there supporting the show every step of the way. like even as someone not as thrilled about Born Again I was still there every night of a new episode, Marvel and the Born Again team would always talk up how important Save Daredevil was in demonstrating the passion people had for the show.......so it feels pretty gross of them to now invoke the name in an effort to say "actually, you guys are fake"