IMO just Sylas it: base CD of like 30-40 seconds but a per-Hero lockout equal to the targets CD. So it's less about "I'm stealing Rat Ult every 20 seconds" and more about flexing around across the enemy team.
Yea this is definitely what im hoping for - cause playing sinclair just to steal one ult over and over again is so boring, like ur playing a quarter of an enemy's character when im tryna play SINCLAIR yknow?
Basically after copying dynamo ult you’re ult goes on cooldown for 40 seconds. Once its back up you can click on anybody else and use their ult but if you click on dynamo it says “ult steal not ready”
I mean the conditions for Sinclair to cast an ult are not very difficult to fulfill? He can use his assistant to teleport twice so he's at 0 real risk when stealing an ult.
The swap has a couple second cooldown, and that’s easily enough to die in deadlock. A single slowing hex and he’s dead also.
I don’t think it makes it deserve a 60% reducing in CD but it’s still worse than just having the copied ultimate as base kit. The only upside if it didn’t have a shorter cooldown is that you get to pick one of 6 random ults each game
but it’s still worse than just having the copied ultimate as base kit.
Except...it absolutely isn't??? That is so outrageously wrong that I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
If we compare base Sinclair to just a single hero, sure. But that's a disingenuous and pointless argument. Sinclair is so strong because he has the versatility of having multiple ults on hand that he can pick and choose for maximum impact while avoiding any of the downsides. In some cases, he can even use some characters ults better than the original by virtue of his teleports (to say nothing of the cooldown benefits).
I want to see this and in exchange you can also steal teammate ults. Could it be broken? Yeah probably. Getting quadruple dynamo ulted with 2 refreshers could be insane, but also it could be sick as fuck so who knows?
50% is reasonable. You need to spend some time playing the character to understand why. You dont get to steal whatever ult you want as soon as you want it, you have to steal it from the correct enemy by getting close to them and then you have like 8 seconds to position into a spot to actually use it effectively
yeah but you should have a 100%, maybe even 110% internal cooldown on the character you stole from, you shouldnt be able to spam X character's ult more then they can.
Why not? You don't get the rest of their kit to synergize with it - no fixation on Haze ult, no dash on Infernus ult, no grapple or slam on Lash ult, et cetera. And you don't get to use their ult as fast as your ult's cooldown theoretically allows because you can only use it while standing next to them.
People dont want me to use their own ultis twice as much as them HOW DARE THEY suggest some good game design?!? I play the character who can steal ultimates from anyone I cant possibly be asked to cycle between atleast 2 guys out of 6 are you crazy?!? The character completely falls apart if I cant perma target THAT guy specifically.
Bro Rubick in DotA 2 exists to counter characters that are known for having one very strong spell. Rubick is known for being picked to hard counter the enemy team when they simply pick one char with a very strong game changing ability(Magnus is the best example). Rubick can steal any ability in DotA and the ability is objectively stronger on him than the char he steals it from (lower cd/more cast range/more spell amp/more AoE/more debuff and buff strength). Rubick is still a balanced hero because Yoshi/Icefrog is amazing at balancing.
If you come from League just remember that Riot can't balance their game. They pro-jail characters and need fearless draft still. Deadlock is still not a released game. Let the man cook up a game that will have better balance than literally any other competitive game focused around heroes. He will cook the most delicious feast of your life.
Yea I feel like it's best to just copy leagues homework here. Sylas' system works pretty much perfectly. He gets a short cooldown for ult stealing but each enemy gets their own cooldown in which he can't steal that ult again. It encourages variety and planning and roaming
I think this is the most reasonable nerf. I cannot for the life of me imagine in what world 40% cooldown on big ults like Rat King, Lash and Dynamo would be balanced.
It would also help his gameplay as a whole. Now you'll have to decide if the smaller ults are worth it in a given situation.
Now you just don't want to ever steal big ults at all because basically half your usefulness late game comes from copying enemy playmaking ults, because any damage he could be doing falls off hard.
Right, so the other option is to let Sinclair have a permanent cooldown reduction on very strong ultimates. I guess they can just bump it to 80% or 90% the cooldown, but then you beg the question on having it in the first place.
It doesn't matter how you slice it, Sinclair is the same situation as kidnap Doorman. The sooner they just completely get rid of the problem, the sooner the character can just be balanced like a normal character, and not have to rely on copying big ults.
The other option is to give Sinclair an entirely new ultimate, which he probably will by release, but that's another conversation.
It’s a beta, now is the time to take corrective actions like this. I would bet they have something planned for his graphics update anyway and this is just breaking his legs so he stops popping up until then
I was just thinking reducing it from 40% reduction to like 25%.
Also if they just remove the Rubick Ult from the game entirely because 'muh balance hard...', then that will just be the sign that Yoshi has gone soft, weak and pathetic.
this character is fucking terrible without the ult cdr and his kit teeters on being unfixable because he's getting a rework
let's ditch a character to almost unplayable because we get the most overbloated, overloaded ult they've ever put into deadlock and have a character nobody can pilot be the casualty because i got hit by a 1000 bolt one time
How would it not? It should either be 100% cooldown of the ult you stole, reduced by your cdr, or the other option of a flat 180 or more second cooldown reduced by your cdr. That would balance it out by punishing the lower cd ults and rewarding higher cd ults. I'd be happy with either, but he shouldn't be able to spam your ult more often than you do.
He absolutely should, considering most ults in the game in his hands are either straight up worse (Mina) or much harder to use properly (Lash)
He's a counterpick, he gets immense benefit from characters with powerful, self contained ults like Dynamo, Rat king and Graves and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
The only way I think 100% cd would be fair is if sinclair stole your ult instead of copying it. Which I actually like.
Every other character has an ult they can use at their leisure. They have a kit for it and they can wait for the perfect opportunity to use it. Sinclair has to get one on the spot and use it within a certain timeframe. It can't be 100% of the time because then he basically just wouldn't have an ult. It would be small miracle for him to get value out of it. They can change the numbers or do some different things to it, but it cannot be 100%. Anyone who thinks it should has obviously not put much time onto the character if any.
And it's insanely powerful to take the ult of your opponents and be able to do it twice as often. If not 100%, then it needs to be like 75% and not 40% the victim's cooldown. Having the opportunity for dynamo ult every 100 seconds is ludicrous. It's not that hard to steal and use an ult in a team fight.
In higher elos, people call out when big Ults get stolen. It's very common for the team to scatter when dynamo ult gets stolen. But again, I don't think he deserves 0 nerfs. I have personally suggested some on the forums. It just can't be 100%.
Still had 48-49% WR at Ascendant and higher before Rat King, bro. Which further show that he was OP even then considering how much you Sinclair players love talking about how hard he is alongside how high his ceiling can be.
Sinclair is massively underappreciated, mostly because solo queue doesn't have draft still so wombo combos are more of a coincidence than intentional, other than the very obvious wombo combos.
Bolts are a good burst, magician is insane mobility that makes him hard to catch and good on-hit, hex is insane - a hex on top of increasing damage taken? AoE too? And can be echo sharded?, and then his ult obviously, which is the biggest offender.
The bolts always had target lock, it only appeared after a second tho. Plus target lock isn't good unless they are standing still. You need to lead the shot because the bolts are so slow.
I agree with the other guy, I wouldnt compensate wioth anything this is meant to be a nerf, this said I do think that the 100% cooldown should be stricly on your target, if you steal from Dynamo you cant do it again for 4 minutes, but you can still steal from Graves or Lash for example, it's just bad that Sinclair as of now can use your ult more than you.
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u/AngryTrafficCone 12d ago
The only real change I want to see is the ult cooldown being 100%. Steal Dynamo, wait 4 minutes.