r/DebateAVegan • u/shutupdavid0010 • 4d ago
Is it ethical to feed chicken to other chickens?
As is often said, it is unethical for humans to eat eggs. The alternative option is to give the chicken invasive surgery to prevent egg-laying, or to feed the eggs back to the chicken.
Let's say we have an animal sanctuary and have chickens at our sanctuary. We give them food, water, shelter, and also give them the surgery to prevent them laying eggs. When a chicken dies at this sanctuary, is it ethical to feed their bodies to other chickens? If not, why not, and how is it different from feeding them their own eggs/children?
**Two hours later and still waiting moderator approval. Will have to respond to comments after work tomorrow.
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u/Valiant-Orange 3d ago
It is not necessary to give hens “invasive surgery” to prevent egg-laying. The preferred solution are Suprelorin implants that are injected subcutaneously. This solves the problem of unwanted eggs and also benefits the long-term welfare and health of rescued hens.
Suprelorin Implants
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“If you’re caring for chickens in a sanctuary environment who were bred for their eggs, you are likely aware that their volume of egg production is not natural, and that egg laying itself is not harmless. It is an incredibly taxing process on chickens’ bodies, requiring a large amount of nutrition as well as contributing to a number of reproductive health issues, most of which are fatal. Although there are some things you can do about egg-laying at a sanctuary, if you have the resources and opportunity, one possibility is to give hens regular Suprelorin F implants. Not only can implantation give hens a break from the taxing cycle of egg-production, but it can also give them an opportunity to heal from health challenges exacerbated by frequent laying and, anecdotally, has been reported to help chickens live a much longer, healthier life than their non-implanted peers.”
Microsanctuary Resource Center
Our Experiences with Suprelorin Implants for Rescued Layer Hens
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“The most obvious improvement we have experienced after implanting all our hens is that they are clearly less stressed. They aren’t driven to ferociously eat from sun up to sun down to get enough nutrients produce their daily egg. Now they don’t yell at us the minute they see us desperate seeking more new foods, even though they already have multiple feeders and fresh fruit & veg giving them constant access to food.”
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“The single biggest positive effect of implanting our hens is that they’re now very rarely ill, and none of our hens have died from reproductive problems in the 2.5 years we’ve been using preventative implants. I’m not claiming implants will make layer hens immortal, but they clearly dramatically reduce, if not eliminate, all the most common causes of death in commercial layer hen breeds.”
Unclear what problem feeding deceased chickens to chickens is supposed to solve. It is unnecessary. A decomposing chicken carcass feeds other organisms so is not a waste in that regard.
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u/shutupdavid0010 3d ago
OK. Take out the surgery part then.
In general, why does it matter what organism eats the dead chicken? More specifically, you have to be very careful when disposing of dead bodies, as you can attract predators - and dead bodies/ meat is not very good for compost. I see that you say here it is unnecessary, but unnecessary is not the same as unethical.
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u/Valiant-Orange 2d ago
Erroneous necessity of surgery resolved.
Still unclear what problem feeding deceased chickens to chickens is supposed to solve. It does not matter what organisms eats the deceased chicken in your scenario, but you are posing the question of feeding chickens to other chickens as if there is some imperative to do so.
There are ways of mitigating risks of unwanted scavengers that do not require feeding the chicken carcasses to other chickens. OpenSantuary has recommendations ranging from burial, cremation, or turning the body over to animal services. Closure is also addressed.
“After a resident passes away, regardless of the circumstances surrounding their death, your organization should strongly consider making it a policy for the sanctuary team to meet and reflect on the resident’s care, their life’s conclusion, and the aftercare that was chosen. Not only does this allow sanctuary personnel to have some time to process any emotions from the event, which is crucial for protecting against compassion fatigue, but this policy can also provide a respectful space for personnel to discuss how care decisions affected a resident’s comfort and well-being, how end-of-life and aftercare decisions affected personnel, etc.”
An animal sanctuary that cares for chickens likely promotes the idea that chickens should not be used as food resources, so it is incongruent for them to then use chickens as food resources. It is bizarre to suggest that upon the death of a chicken in their care, stewards at an animal sanctuary should then butcher the corpse and serve it to other chickens under their guardianship.
In Australia, there is a law against feeding poultry to poultry, designated as “swill.”
Why swill is dangerous
“Swill may contain viruses that cause serious diseases such as Newcastle disease or infectious bursal disease that can be passed on to poultry that are fed swill.”
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“This ban applies to all poultry, including pet poultry and poultry owned by hobby farmers”The European Union has a similar ban that applies to backyard animals as well,
Intra-species recycling (cannibalism) ban
"The Regulation extends the current ruminant intra-species recycling (cannibalism) ban to other species. Porcine animal by-products cannot be fed to pigs and poultry animal by-products cannot be fed to poultry."There is enough of a disease risk with this practice for legislation to exist.
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u/shutupdavid0010 2d ago
but you are posing the question of feeding chickens to other chickens as if there is some imperative to do so.
I'm not saying its an imperative, I'm just asking if it is, and if not, why not (and what is the difference between feeding chicken to chickens and feeding chicken eggs to chickens)
An animal sanctuary that cares for chickens likely promotes the idea that chickens should not be used as food resources, so it is incongruent for them to then use chickens as food resources. It is bizarre to suggest that upon the death of a chicken in their care, stewards at an animal sanctuary should then butcher the corpse and serve it to other chickens under their guardianship.
Nobody said anything about butchering the corpse and serving it to the chickens.
contains, or may contain, material from a mammal or bird (including meat, eggs, blood, faeces)
Wow, so apparently according to your source, it is also illegal to feed eggs back to the chickens. Neat! Would you mind providing this source to other vegans that think it is ethical to feed chickens eggs, if you happen to see it?
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u/Valiant-Orange 1d ago
Posing this sort of question implies there is some reason to pursue this course of action. Otherwise, the inquiry is feigning neutrality while seeking to manufacture provocative conclusions, especially in the context of a debate subreddit. Aside from risk of predators taking the corpse, which may or may be a problem and is avoidable if undesired, no reason for posing this question was provided.
You did not stipulate onsite butchering, though that is the straightforward course of events. The carcass would need to be defeathered and chopped up. Cooking is probably necessary, but perhaps not, so I excluded that step. To feed chicken to other chickens, a caretaker on the sanctuary would “serve” them the processed flesh.
Accounting for the values and objectives of an animal sanctuary including the psychological wellbeing of staff whose animals are in their care is appropriate to include in considerations.
Illegality on intra-species recycling depends on jurisdiction. I cited the statutes in recognition of disease risk. People advocating feeding unfertilized eggs back to the hen that laid them would not present a disease risk. The European Union cannibalism ban does not apply in that situation. The Queensland legislation as worded, might, but the disease risk is what is relevant. Disease risk explains a difference in feeding an egg laid by a hen back to her and feeding chicken meat to other chickens.
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u/kharvel0 3d ago
Why do you want to do anything to a chicken?
Why do you want to take anything from a chicken?
Why don’t you just leave the chicken alone?
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u/shutupdavid0010 3d ago
Oh, you.
Is your quibble over giving the chickens the surgery to not lay eggs? If so, feel free to disregard.
Otherwise, I don't want to do anything to a chicken. I'm not taking anything from a chicken. If left alone, chickens will gladly eat a dead chicken. So therefore, I think you agree that feeding a chicken to another chicken is not unethical. Thanks!
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4d ago
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u/ILoveLaggyInternet 4d ago
There are canabalistic societies and amimals in the world.
Like spiders eat their own species. Are you a spider? If so how did you get access to the internet.
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3d ago edited 3d ago
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u/onemorehasanat 3d ago
Do you believe humans should impose their subjective moral standards on animals whose natural behaviour they don't come to like?
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3d ago
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u/onemorehasanat 3d ago
I did not mean it, it was buried under other notifications.
Anyways, you're on a debate sub, refusing to engage in an open discussion shows disingenuity.
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3d ago
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u/onemorehasanat 3d ago
With all due respect, that's rich comes from you. You literally can't clarify what you believe, can't directly answer a question, and can't defend your premises. You want the other person doing it for you. I think you're more concerned with winning debates than saving animals.
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3d ago
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u/onemorehasanat 3d ago
Does that mean you're not defending the argument you made against eating animals?
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u/DesignerFar3215 3d ago
So yes? Or no. Either it is or it isn't ethical to eat your grandparent when they pass. You seem to be conceding that it is, which would just be taken as a reductio on your view.
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u/shutupdavid0010 3d ago
First, I don't really have a firm answer on your question. If you press me for an answer, which I'm sure you will, then my answer would be that I don't find it inherently unethical, but I would highly recommend you not engage in cannibalism, because you are in fact not a chicken.
Second, in my question, the person taking care of the individual is not the one eating it.
It might be weird but you failed to make any statement that you believe it's unethical, so I will assume that you believe it is ethical, just weird. Which is fine. Thanks!
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u/shutupdavid0010 3d ago
Correct I did not intend to make any statement. I was making an analogy that has served it's purpose.
I don't think it has lol - very clearly, judging by the responses to you
So it's rather clear you are either highly uncomfortable with humans eating humans, why are you not uncomfortable with feeding chickens to chickens? Or are you only concerned with following the law?
I'm not sure where you got that, because I'm not "highly uncomfortable" with humans eating humans. I would just recommend that you not do it, for several reasons, but primarily because humans are capable of spreading diseases to each other when consumed, whereas chickens are not. Because chickens and humans are not the same species. And do not have the same biology.
I fail to see why this matters, the person that took care of it is now feeding it to its own species? Does this somehow make it different to you?
You said this earlier: I mean do I care about my grandmother or am I just taking care of her so I can eat her when she dies?
It was part of your original analogy (part of the reason why it was ineffective). Your analogy included a benefit to having access to the grandmothers body, that I as the caretaker, would not have by not eating the body. These are very clearly two separate scenarios that you have not adequately thought through or managed to convincingly connect.
I'm not sure why you assume if someone doesn't tell you why it's unethical then you automatically assume it is. Or do you just avoid making the moral assertion yourself so you don't have to defend your position?
You failed to make an argument, therefore, you forfeit the debate. That's... how debates work.
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3d ago
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u/shutupdavid0010 3d ago
You have no idea what my intention was so how would you know?
Genuinely flabbergasted with this response.
If no one has any idea what your intention was, how did it serve its purpose LOL
Do you have sources showing that chickens can't spread diseases to each other?
Here you are https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6277184/
You're right that there are some diseases that can be spread, but not as many as a human eating another human. We are mammals and chickens are not.
Again how do you know it was ineffective if you don't know the purpose? You are assuming something you can't possibly know.
I'm going to say this as nicely as I can? If no one knows what the purpose of the comment was, it by definition, cannot be effective. That's how communication works.
I'm not sure why you think a statement is required to be offering an argument. You yourself made no statement you asked a bunch of questions are you not making an argument?
This was the question central to the OP: If not, why not, and how is it different from feeding them their own eggs/children?
Since you made no attempt at all to argue that feeding chicken to a chicken is unethical, you concede it is not. That's just how this works. I just want to hear an actual argument on why people may believe it is unethical, and why it would differ from eating an egg, I thought it would be an interesting premise :)
What's MOST interesting to me is how few of you are willing to commit to a response!! I'm not sure why it's so uncomfortable for so many of you. Care to explain yourself why you are not willing to commit an answer to the question posed in the OP?
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u/shutupdavid0010 3d ago
Lol what? Someone has to know my intention for a statement I make to serve it's purpose? I don't what you are confused about.
What was the purpose then?
Glad you are conceding this point.
You're welcome! Glad to demonstrate how.
I know what the purpose was, do you not understand that I can post a comment with my own intention, and know whether it worked or not? Is this really so hard to understand for you?
Was the purpose to make it seem like you're really obtuse and bad at analogies?
I see so you used a question for your argument but then assumed that no one else is allowed to do the same.
I didn't make an argument, I asked a question. If you want me to tell you my position on the matter, I'd eat both the chicken and the egg.
Did i not ask you why you don't want humans cannibalizing each other but are fine with chickens doing it? And what did you do? You claimed some nonsense that chickens can't spread disease that way, and claimed you won the debate because I didn't make a statement.
I didn't say I didn't want humans cannibalizing each other. I just said I wouldn't recommend it, and that I don't think its unethical. I primarily wouldn't recommend it because of prion diseases, which chickens cannot have. Obviously I'm not suggesting feeding a rotten diseased parasite infected corpse to other chickens, and I'm sorry that I granted my audience more intelligence than it seems you have earned. Here I will amend the premise: is it ethical to feed a chicken that is otherwise healthy, except for the fact that it's dead, to other chickens? Why or why not?
Not sure what you expect when you deflect and put 0 thought or effort into comprehending responses.
......the projection is astounding. I expect you to engage in the debate in good faith. If you are not willing to debate the subject, then you concede the debate.
Honestly, I'm good here. I'll just accept that you've conceded. Next time, actually engage in the post (unless of course you want to concede the debate!) :)
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u/CalligrapherDizzy201 3d ago
What if she gives you permission?
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u/CalligrapherDizzy201 3d ago
You cared for your dead grandmother? To what purpose?
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u/CalligrapherDizzy201 3d ago
Do you not understand that your grandmother can give you permission while she’s still alive? I need a therapist? You jumped immediately to cannibalism. My question is simply, is it ethical if permission was given beforehand?
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u/CalligrapherDizzy201 3d ago
Yes I do. Now that we’re on to human cannibalism, is it ethical to eat your grandmother if she gives you permission?
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u/hordeumvulgaris 3d ago
Do you want to create mad-chicken disease? Cause that's how you do it.
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u/shutupdavid0010 3d ago
Nope! Wrong :) Chickens are not mammals, and are not at risk for prion disease. The science behind it is actually quite interesting!
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u/hordeumvulgaris 2d ago
Wow that's cool. Is it just chickens? Or is it a bird thing? Or are mammals just suceptable to prions?
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u/shutupdavid0010 2d ago
Mammals are particularly susceptible to prions (which sucks for mammals, it's a horrible disease)
There are a few studies which are actually kind of hard to parse where researchers attempted to infect chickens with prion diseases, but it seems due to multiple factors, they are extremely resilient to prions. From my very limited understanding, non-mammal brains do not seem to misfold when exposed to prions.
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u/DesignerFar3215 3d ago
The problem would be getting the chicken to feed x in the first place. That is what vegans would morally object to, since animals are not ours to use as feed, as clothing, as anything really. They have their own lives and interests.
That extends to their corpses, as well. In the same way that defiling a human corpse is morally objectionable on some people's views, many vegans will share similar moral intuitions.
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u/shutupdavid0010 3d ago edited 3d ago
We're talking about a dead chicken that died of natural causes. Chickens are naturally cannibalistic, so eating each other is not morally objectionable for them.
Unless you believe your morality should trump an animals morality, or that animals are inherently immoral, I don't see why a human finding eating your own species morally objectionable to be relevant.
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u/DesignerFar3215 3d ago
That is addressed by the second position. Humans and non-human animals have similar considerations, in that we have reasons to not desecrate their bodies or use them for our benefit.
"Unless you believe your morality should trump an animals morality, "
That's confused on what morality refers to, and if animals have meta-ethical positions of the same type to be symmetrical (they do not).
"or that animals are inherently immoral"
This is somehow even more confused. An animal is not the sort of thing that can be moral or immoral.
"I don't see why a human finding eating your own species morally objectionable to be relevant."
The symmetry is that both humans and non-human animals have moral considerations which give us reasons/justify our decisions to not desecrate their bodies. The default position here is inaction and non-intervention, anyways. You would have to give reasons for supporting intervention against deceased beings in the first place.
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u/shutupdavid0010 2d ago
That is addressed by the second position. Humans and non-human animals have similar considerations, in that we have reasons to not desecrate their bodies or use them for our benefit.
This all stems from your morality. Most animals, plants, and fungi find no issue desecrating bodies and using them for their benefit. Humans are unique in this position.
That's confused on what morality refers to, and if animals have meta-ethical positions of the same type to be symmetrical (they do not).
What does morality refer to?
This is somehow even more confused. An animal is not the sort of thing that can be moral or immoral.
If an animal is "a thing" that cannot be moral or immoral, then why can't I allow a chicken to eat another dead chicken?
The symmetry is that both humans and non-human animals have moral considerations which give us reasons/justify our decisions to not desecrate their bodies. The default position here is inaction and non-intervention, anyways.
I would posit that "desecrating a body" is an entirely human and entirely erroneous concept. I could argue that filling a body full of plastic, encasing it in a box of plastic, and burying it so that the body never truly degrades to be desecrating, and that would be entirely valid.
You would have to give reasons for supporting intervention against deceased beings in the first place.
LOL, what??? YOU are arguing for intervention. Otherwise, the body will be eaten by other living organisms.
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u/DesignerFar3215 2d ago
"This all stems from your morality. Most animals, plants, and fungi find no issue desecrating bodies and using them for their benefit. Humans are unique in this position."
You seem slow in the head. This was already addressed and the issue or lack thereof does not function as truth-preserving with regards to the proposition about moral considerations and desecrations.
"What does morality refer to?"
I negated one of the features morality typically refers to (which is what I was pointing at). Read the rest of the sentence instead of asking these questions that highlight your tracking errors.
"If an animal is "a thing" that cannot be moral or immoral, then why can't I allow a chicken to eat another dead chicken?"
Who said anything about permission? You are confusing meta-ethics, the philosophy of action, and the normative principles being deployed. I can even grant you the truth or falsity of the antecedent, the consequent would not be guaranteed since it would need to be further fleshed out. You are jumping the gun here, it's clear you don't know what you are talking about.
"I would posit that "desecrating a body" is an entirely human and entirely erroneous concept."
Concepts wrt norms are not truth-apt in that regard, if you'd like to argue why they are, go for it.
"and that would be entirely valid."
It would make zero sense for it to be described as valid. You mean ok by your lights? That's totally separate from valid. You are really out of your depth here, this seems to be a waste of my time.
"YOU are arguing for intervention. Otherwise, the body will be eaten by other living organisms."
Recapitulate my position and my dialectical commitments if you are so confident. Seems odd to be so confidently wrong about a mental state I clearly do not hold.
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u/TamaraDeVegan vegan 3d ago
My concern would be that it would make them sick. Chickens don't have any problems eating their eggs, but I don't know if that extends to adult corpses. If it's normal for them and won't cause disease, then I don't see an issue with it.
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u/shutupdavid0010 3d ago edited 3d ago
No, it will not make them sick. If you're thinking of something like prion disease, only mammals and plants seem to be susceptible. Chicken brain tissue does not misfold like mammal brain tissue will. Chickens are also incredibly cannibalistic and will eat a corpse if it's left near them (and will even eat other chickens before they're dead..)
Thanks for responding! It's interesting to see the answers and how they differ from the recommendation to feed a chicken its own eggs.
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u/PuzzledPoetry1447 vegan 4d ago edited 3d ago
What do you think people do when their cats and dogs die? I don't think anyone feeds their carcasses to the other animals in their care. They lay them to rest with dignity by burying them or cremating them.
All of my animal companions have been buried on my grandma's farm. My childhood guinea pig, Ginger, is buried under a grape vine.
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u/shutupdavid0010 3d ago
That's nice. I bet it's really beautiful. Your dead animals are being eaten by other animals. Dead animals can also attract predators, which can put other animals at risk.
That aside, I do not see how this is an argument for or against how ethical it is to feed chickens other chickens. Do you have a response to the OP?
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u/PuzzledPoetry1447 vegan 3d ago
That's nice. I bet it's really beautiful. Your dead animals are being eaten by other animals.
Yeah, worms and such.
Dead animals can also attract predators, which can put other animals at risk.
Not if you bury them properly. If you're too much of a lazy shit to dig a hole at least a few feet deep, then cremate them.
I do not see how this is an argument for or against how ethical it is to feed chickens other chickens. Do you have a response to the OP?
It's not ethical because a dead chicken was an individual and they deserve dignity after death, just like humans and other animal companions.
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u/shutupdavid0010 3d ago
Yeah, worms and such.
Why is that any more dignified than being eaten by any other animal?
Not if you bury them properly. If you're too much of a lazy shit to dig a hole at least a few feet deep, then cremate them.
Or I could just feed them to other chickens!
It's not ethical because a dead chicken was an individual and they deserve dignity after death, just like humans and other animal companions.
Do you also find feeding eggs to chickens objectionable/unethical?
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u/PuzzledPoetry1447 vegan 3d ago
Why is that any more dignified than being eaten by any other animal?
The worms aren't in your care and you have no influence on what behaviors they carry out.
Or I could just feed them to other chickens!
You could. I'm arguing it's not ethical because that's what you asked for in your post. I'm not prohibiting you from doing it.
Do you also find feeding eggs to chickens objectionable/unethical?
No, because eggs aren't individuals. Chickens in someone's care should have implants to stop the production of eggs, though. Someone else in the thread explained that implants are injected and no surgery is required.
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u/shutupdavid0010 3d ago
The worms aren't in your care and you have no influence on what behaviors they carry out.
I'm not sure I understand why that matters though. The animal was in my care, and its being eaten by other animals. Why does it matter what species does the eating?
No, because eggs aren't individuals.
They could be individuals if you allow the chicken to brood, as is the natural drive of most animals. And you truly don't think its unethical to feed a chicken its own babies?
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u/shutupdavid0010 3d ago
I think I got too caught up in the debate and forgot the human. Thank you for the response, even if I don't understand it/agree.
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u/Icy_Sun3128 3d ago
Do you know the difference between fertilized and unfertilized eggs?
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u/shutupdavid0010 3d ago
Interesting question. I hope you don't mind if I ask you one in return.
When you're feeding a chicken an egg, do you think the chicken knows the difference between a fertilized and unfertilized egg?
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u/Icy_Sun3128 2d ago
Also, do you know why chicken peck others to death? It’s because of the stress they endure during factory farming.
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u/shutupdavid0010 2d ago
Nope, chickens regularly engage in cannibalism outside of factory farms. They are, in fact, raptors. Birds eat other birds, if you weren't aware. So are you going to answer my question? I've answered yours, even if I don't think its relevant whether I know if an egg is fertilized or not.
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u/Icy_Sun3128 2d ago edited 2d ago
So they deserve to suffer in factory farms and have bodies so big it breaks their legs. They can’t walk. They’re covered in soars. Is that what you’re trying to say?
In nature they can try to run from prey. It is completely different than the abuse they endure in small cages on top of each other so distressed they peck each other bald or kill each other in animal ag situations
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u/shutupdavid0010 2d ago
I mean.... what the fuck lol
Where did I ever say that? What does that have to do with my original post? What does that have to do with anything I have said in this thread whatsoever? Can you quote where I have ever supported factory farmed chickens?
Also, *sores*
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u/Icy_Sun3128 2d ago
Oh god forgive me I’m drunk. I am asking an” question, hence the question marks ???????
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u/shutupdavid0010 2d ago
Oh god forgive me I’m drunk. I am asking an” question, hence the question marks ???????
That's.... not a good thing. If you're so drunk on a thursday that you can't post a cohesive response then maybe stay off reddit.. and I did respond to your question.
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u/Icy_Sun3128 2d ago
Was it not cohesive? You understood it? I just misspelled one word. Can you just answer my question? What is your argument? Why do vegans not eat eggs if chickens do? Because I’ll never trust the egg came from a well cared for chicken so I just choose to avoid it, does that make me a bad person? To care about animal welfare?
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u/Icy_Sun3128 2d ago
Do you know loins sometimes kill the cubs? I’d still never kill or eat a lion because I don’t want lions to suffer being slaughtered.
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u/Icy_Sun3128 2d ago
Weird that you never answered mine. So I figured you’re here in bad faith. Why would I respond?
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u/shutupdavid0010 2d ago edited 2d ago
LMFAO. OK. So, my answer is that I do know the difference between a fertilized and unfertilized egg. So I'll ask you again: When you're feeding a chicken an egg, do you think the chicken knows the difference between a fertilized and unfertilized egg?
And why would you assume I'm here in bad faith? Can you explain why it matters why I need to tell you if I know the difference between a fertilized and unfertilized egg (centering me as the human, which is strange) when I'm not the one being fed my own eggs? Can you not just assume that I know the difference between a fertilized egg and unfertilized egg, and go from there? Or was your entire comment to be snarky because you're uncomfortable that you don't have an answer to the OP?
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u/Icy_Sun3128 2d ago
Why is that funny? You seem sadistic and unhinged. I know farmers feed eggs and shells to chickens. But back to your original question in the post, it isn’t safe for chickens to eat chickens that have died of nature causes due to risk of disease or spoiled meat. I am not a chicken, I do not know if they know the difference between a fertilized or unfertilized egg. I’d imagine if the egg was far along they’d notice a small chick instead of just yolk? Idk what argument you’re trying to make. Do you think it’s okay to make them suffer in factory farming because they can eat eggs? That’s cruel.
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u/shutupdavid0010 2d ago
What do you mean I seem sadistic and unhinged? I think it's funny that when I centered it back on the victims, you ignored me. Then when I reminded you of your comment, you attacked me. I'm laughing at you.
it isn’t safe for chickens to eat chickens that have died of nature causes due to risk of disease or spoiled meat.
This is obviously assuming that you're not feeding a rotten parasitic chicken to another chicken. The chicken just died. It was otherwise healthy. There are no health repercussions.
I do not know if they know the difference between a fertilized or unfertilized egg.
Respectfully, how would they know if an egg was fertilized or unfertilized? Chickens brood and try to hatch rocks. They assume all of their eggs are fertilized.
I’d imagine if the egg was far along they’d notice a small chick instead of just yolk?
Which they'd only know upon breaking open the egg, in which case they would most certainly eat it regardless...?
Do you think it’s okay to make them suffer in factory farming because they can eat eggs?
That has literally and absolutely nothing to do with my question.
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u/Icy_Sun3128 2d ago
I’m not lagging at you, I’m grossed out by you. What is your point then?
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u/shutupdavid0010 2d ago
Why are you grossed out by me??? I've literally done nothing to you or to these hypothetical chickens.
Maybe if you're this emotional you should just block the debate subreddit if you're not actually open to a debate?
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u/CalligrapherDizzy201 3d ago
You’re going to perform non consensual surgery on chickens? How is that ethical?
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u/Young-Nosferatu 3d ago
Not what the question is asking, but nobody is performing surgery to prevent their chickens from laying.
Performing surgery on a bird is not like performing surgery on a mammal, it is much higher risk and only used as a last restort for life-saving care.
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u/Badtacocatdab vegan 1d ago
I find this to be vegan, as long as it’s based on what you believe the chicken would want you to do with their body after they’re dead.
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u/Mundane_Move_5296 4d ago
Not a vegan, but I do feel like letting you know that it’s an easy way for diseases to pass. Don’t let other people bully you into your own personal ethics, but consider that it isn’t always super healthy
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u/Icy_Sun3128 3d ago
Don’t let others bully you into believing enslaving sentient life is immoral, have you’re own ethics, even if it mean slavery is okay, that’s what you’re saying?
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u/Mundane_Move_5296 3d ago
The comparison between a farm chicken and an actual genuine human slave would be hilarious if it weren’t so pathetic. But no, if someone wants to be vegan be vegan, if they wanna enjoy meat let em, who gives a damn
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u/Icy_Sun3128 3d ago
I give a damn. And the chickens in factory farming give a damn. Do you know how they are forced to live? And I didn’t compare them to enslaved people but it’s interesting your mind went there. Almost like you know it’s wrong to enslave sentient beings?
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u/Mundane_Move_5296 3d ago
No, I’ve just heard you goobers compare animals to people enough times to know how your arguments go. And no, chicken doesn’t really care, cause it’s a chicken, it is not sapient, it’s not reflecting on its living conditions and existence. Not fan of factory farming though I admit, I have my own chickens I slaughter that live much better lives
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u/Icy_Sun3128 3d ago edited 3d ago
Chickens that can’t walk, have to live on top of each other, have infected skin and feet, are so stressed they peck themselves and others sometimes to death and lose all their feathers…yeah they care. They don’t want to suffer in pain and distress their entire lives and I don’t want them to either. You clearly don’t know enough about it to have an informed opinion so I’ll give you the grace this once of it being ignorance rather than malice. Mhm, I’m sure you do. I don’t believe you because I’ve heard you goobers make this agreement enough times that I know how your argument goes. It bs.
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u/Mundane_Move_5296 3d ago
I’m sure it sucks, not a fan of factory farming, still don’t care cause it’s a chicken. Literal peanuts brain. And I do have chickens, I don’t regularly slaughter them though, about once a year. Most of my meat is hunted or fished, but I won’t lie I eat factory meat, it’s easy, tastes good, and doesn’t make me look like a pretentious ass
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u/Icy_Sun3128 3d ago edited 3d ago
Because caring about others suffering is pretentious?
It sounds like you’d rather be see as a big strong man and “big strong men eat meat.” Not true. Look up vegan body builders.
Your arguments make you sound really heartless. Not to be unkind but since you are ill just be honest, it’s a really mean and heartless way of thinking.
The chicken can still suffer. How would you feel if someone just lit it on fire alive for fun? That’d be okay?
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u/Mundane_Move_5296 3d ago
You say caring about others like you aren’t talking about an actual bird
Tf is it gonna know it’s burning after its neck is snapped? And again, you’re comparing an actual chicken brain, literally used as an insult of low intelligence, to the complexity of a humans emotioms
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