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u/CabbageStockExchange Player To Be Named Later 2d ago
Smith really had quite the fall off this series. The comparison between him and Contreras was gigantic
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u/JustTheBeerLight Hideo Nomo 2d ago
Will Smith missed a lot of the season with his injury. He never seemed like himself once we got him back in the lineup.
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u/12345CodeToMyLuggage Clayton Kershaw 2d ago
He’s an all-star but all-stars can’t be all-starrin alls the time.
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u/AltruisticStomach620 2d ago
I think you need to give Contreras some credit as well. Sometimes guys just get hot at the right time. Contreras wasn't having a career season or anything and his regular season numbers actually are lower than Will's this year as well but he started getting hot in late August and was able to bring that into the postseason unlike most of the Dodgers hitters.
As for ABS, Will's injury was absolutely the difference maker because he was more successful than Contreras before the injury. But Contreras kept getting a ton of practice throughout (most challenges by any catcher in the year) and eventually found it in September despite being only around 50% successful before that and went on a tear. Vs Will who lost half the season and then had a significantly lower success rate after his injury and likely lost a lot of confidence as well as a result.
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u/baribigbird06 Clayton Kershaw 2d ago edited 2d ago
He was just extremely aggressive and locked in. It’s nearly impossible to cheat on ABS challenges with the broadcast delay and how fast the challenge has to be made, like some folks are insinuating on other social media.
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u/Relative_Apricot5032 2d ago
I actually thought he deserved nlcs mvp. Being able to win these challenges is just so valuable, I think it can be the new meta for catchers.
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u/Apex_Fenris 2025 WS MVP Yoshinobu Yamamoto 2d ago
I feel like Bauers is the MVP personally fouling off almost 27 pitches collectively is insane value
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u/Relative_Apricot5032 2d ago
Contreras still did bat 1.113 OPS.
It was at least close. His challenges definitely impacted the Dodgers offense
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u/LittleTinyBoy Shohei Ohtani 2d ago
This is the first time I've heard of such "hacks" and they're really lame excuses.
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u/Gr8timing1 2d ago
dude was annoying af. wish it was will smith lol
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u/Flopdo Vin Scully 2d ago
All his antics behind the plate are annoying... the scraping the dirt the opposite way to try and make the hitter think the pitch is going the other way (never fools them), flash his glove back and forth before the pitch to try and distract the batter.
But my fav was him acting like he was going to challenge every borderline pitch to put pressure on the ump to make the call. I think they need a new rule here like if you go int othe motion, then you need to challenge or something because it's super disrespectful to the ump.
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u/LengthObjective2253 Roki Sasaki 2d ago
Yeah saw that shit with Muncy I believe. Ump should’ve just challenged it just to burn him lol
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u/thedogmumbler Fernando Valenzuela 2d ago
We just need full ABS already. Get rid of the silly antics. Make the game better using the great technology we have
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u/pargofan Shohei Ohtani 1d ago
Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but I love the challenge setup even if it screwed us this series.
It adds so much more drama to the game itself. It shows fans that calling balls/strikes for borderline situations is really hard. It adds a new dimensions for catchers who make themselves better or worse by being able to accurately challenge. It keeps "framing" as a part of the game but also allows hitters to keep it in check.
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u/thedogmumbler Fernando Valenzuela 1d ago
It's a fair point, but I consider all of that stuff unnecessary fluff. Let's just get calls right and move on.
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u/BishopAtheist 1d ago
If we have the tech do call fair balls and strikes, we should use it. The unfairness of balls and strikes is a great equalizer between teams of varying abilities and is a factor for why bad baseball teams regularly beat good ones - it's like football in a snow/rainstorm.
That being said, it's very difficult for catchers to be good at the current ABS system because it is merely a two-dimensional box on the middle of the plate, rather than the rulebook's prescribed 3-d cube. The current system leads to more rulebook strikes that clip the zone before (for offspeed) or after (for fastballs) that 2-d zone, which are incorrectly called balls.
The 2-d zone is against the rules and unfair to pitchers. Improve the tech, make it a 3-d, and take the unfairness out of it. Anybody who's ever played knows the difference between 0-1 and 1-0, and if it's the umpire's fault, it's not fair. Life's not fair, I know - but this is an area where it should be.
Plus, Turang scored three times in the first two games because the umpire helped him out (on the 1st game HR, and on his first two at bats in game 2, which should have been strikeouts). But for the umpire helping Turang so much, Dodgers might win this series.
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u/AltruisticStomach620 2d ago edited 1d ago
Here's the thing. During the regular season, Contreras challenged the most of all catchers at 185!! challenges. The next person only had 136 challenges. However, Contreras also only had a success rate of 57%.
Will challenged 59 times with a success rate of 61%. At one time he was leading all catchers with the highest amount of successful challenges.
I do think that the biggest difference here is simply repetition. Will was injured for half the season and you could clearly tell that there was a difference in his ABS usage before and after the injury, very likely from just lack of practice. I imagine that working on ABS was probably at the bottom of the list of things to work on after coming back from injury as well. He was always more conservative with challenges before but you could see him be even less confident after coming back and the lack of success didn't help (he was only 5/12 in September when he was 31/47 before).
Contreras on the other hand got a toooooon of practice throughout the season. I know he actually got a lot of flak from Brewers fans throughout the season for terrible challenges (that success rate wasn't always at 57%) but all the practice paid off and you can see he really started figuring it out by September and was 27/36 in that month.
I have full faith that Will will be much better next year. I think he knows he wasn't good at it after coming back this year and every time he has something to work on he gets much better at it the following year (cutting down strikeout rate from 2019 to 2020, the huge improvement in throwing out runners from 2023 to 2024, the improvement in blocking and framing this year from last year, etc).
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u/Shotime10-3 2d ago
That f***ing Contreras boomed me,” the Dodgers added, “He’s so good,” repeating it four times.
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u/MahrFM 2d ago
Our guys had all of spring training and most of the regular season to get good (or even passable) at challenges, and they just never did. It sucks to be in a situation where only the blown calls that go in your favor get overturned and all the ones that hurt you are left standing, but them's the breaks.
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u/roundupinthesky Will Smith 2d ago
Will was best in the league for the first part of the season, I don’t know what you’re smoking.
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u/MahrFM 1d ago
You're right: it's only most of our guys that were consistently terrible at challenges throughout the year, whereas Will put in a lot of effort to become bad at them.
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u/roundupinthesky Will Smith 1d ago
Will was out for like half the season. He got injured, it clearly fucked him up. Before injury he was sharp.
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u/MahrFM 1d ago
That's an explanation for why he became terrible at challenges; it doesn't really address the actual point being made, which was 'Our team is terrible at challenges', lol.
(It also doesn't provide any real optimism for the future because injuries are a part of the sport, our guys are only getting older and more brittle over time, and if people are asking for trophies or whatever for being top-tier during absolutely meaningless games early in the regular season, the team is well and truly cooked.)
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u/roundupinthesky Will Smith 1d ago
Dude. Back-to-Back. We've gotten to and done well in the post season every year for 10 years now. Two rings stolen. 3 rings won. Just chill.
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u/Atraktape Dalton Rushing 2d ago
I think tonight especially having that 3-0 series lead he was like "might as well be aggressive while we still have two challenges" and he was on it.
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u/Esclamare Shohei Ohtani 2d ago
It’s cause his eyes are wide apart like a chameleon. Really good vision
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u/strwbrryhope Shohei Ohtani 2d ago
every time he challenged i knew it was gonna be exactly 1mm inside the zone😭
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u/Frequent_Translator3 Mookie Betts 2d ago
Dude was literally on fire 🔥
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u/kaiheekai 2d ago
Hurt too. I give him credit, I just can’t like him after his lengthy home run trot.
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u/TypeRevolutionary697 1d ago
That and watching him talk shit at the plate several times over the course of the series. Dude is a terrible sportsman.
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u/kaiheekai 1d ago
When Andy foul tipped the ball on strike three and Contreras held it up with a shocked pikachu face I couldn’t believe it.
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u/Doyoulikemypace Kiké Hernández 2d ago
Frustrating how locked in he was with his challenges. Crazy accurate.
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u/SnooLover36 Back-2-Back Champs 2d ago
I hope Tampa bay or Cleveland destroys the breaks off of Milwaukee in the World Series.
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u/kaiheekai 2d ago
Brakes? Or the breaks they give? Idk if they can contend with the brewers pitching tbh.
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u/BruitNoise Mookie Betts 2d ago edited 2d ago
I wanted the White Sox to win the AL to see how they did but really have no interest in watching either team this year.
it's like the Rangers vs DBacks game WS (one of the lowest view count in WS games compared to other WS), there is literally nobody that important to care about except for Seagar. Maybe the Miz is interesting but the Brewers are an overall great team but doesn't have anybody else that stands out like the Yankees, Phillies, Mariners, etc etc.
I'm just hoping Dodgers can learn what to do and not do next season like if Ohtani is injured, stop playing games, pull him out we know now "Ohtani will play even if he's injured and give us 0.149 avg and 1 hr out of 118 days" that proves 1 "big ass" mistake. The second is working on communication vs pitchers (You never saw the pitcher vs catcher argument in the Braves), We saw that few times this postseason where Yoshi wanted to make a call and so did Ohtani will Dalton (got messy) and the Brewers didn't do that. Brewers played a lot of small ball, we did that like 6 times. Almost all the Brewers outfielders ran and dived to catch a ball to get the out, our players did the walk fast, it's too far, My legs are old especially Teo.
Oh and now Ohtani is saying he might need surgery, thanks for being SO considerate now that the game is over instead of saying that before when we could have had JDP in the game.
A lot to consider.
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u/jdanielregan 2d ago
They just swept the Dodgers. I think MLB might as well just hand them their rings now and let everyone go to Cabo early.
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u/Lavenza- 2024 World Series Champions 2d ago
Dude has cyborg eyes, you cannot convince me otherwise
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u/BobboBobberson Brusdar Graterol 2d ago
Will had too many other things on his mind, understandably. He was a really good challenger to start the year, but after the neck injury, he regressed terribly. The one catcher challenge he uses, and it's for a pitch he picked up off the ground. Just wasn't thinking straight.
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u/SverdAbrEvarinya 2d ago
On top of that i think some people are forgetting he and his wife had a baby like three days ago. Can’t imagine he’s been getting the best sleep
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u/jay_philosophy 2d ago
these guys moving like 2025 blue jays, all around perfection, power and everything, hope they don't choke
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u/PJCR1916 Alex Vesia 2d ago
They’re like a more relentless and more mistake free version of the jays. I don’t recall them making any mistakes other than Logan Henderson’s throws to first. Their speed up and down the lineup also makes them an absolute pain to play, which is something the jays didn’t have a ton of.
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u/ProcessTruster Shohei Ohtani 2d ago
I would expect any good catcher to have a feel for whether a pitch should be a strike or ball, based on where they caught it, from a decade+ of catching experience.
They ones who get this right are not exceptional, then, from my POV. Rather, the ones who don't, they have a problem.
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u/pizzadahutt121 Orel Hershiser 2d ago
Seriously..a lot of pitches like this that Will would just brush off and keep going. Hope next year he’s better at recognizing the edges
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u/AltruisticStomach620 1d ago
I have confidence he's going to come back much better at it next year. Every time he has a focus for the offseason he improves in it significantly next season and I'm sure he knows he wasn't very good after coming back from injury.
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u/ZhangtheGreat 2025 World Series Champions 2d ago
Dude knew when to hold 'em, when to fold 'em, when to walk away...
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u/bee_town Kiké Hernández 2d ago
I'm happy they can all rest and heal now. It's not been fun to watch the decline. It makes my back hurt by proxy.
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u/Medium-Song-1802 Yoshinobu Yamamoto 1d ago
We were at the game, Contreras' challenges were frustrating and amazing. Also, just the fact multiple Brewer pitchers were painting the corners like that was amazing to watch. Irritating to be on the receiving side of such a performance.
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u/True-Requirement8243 1d ago
Will had a good game 4. We needed this Will games 1-3 too though. Too little too late to have Will and Sho finally hitting
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u/spcmnspff99 1d ago
Am I the only one that thinks these are 50/50 and there should probably be a rule that states if only x% of the ball is covered, the call on the field stands?
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u/Jay_Torte 1d ago
My ABS semi lame take:
I know ABS needs to draw the line somewhere, but I don't really like this type of pitch being overturned. If called a strike, fine. But it's really unhittable and should be called a ball. 90% of the ball is out of the zone. I guess a batter can try to foul it off and I get there are pitchers pitches. Maybe more of the ball needs to be in the zone to overturn?
I think overall ABS is good for the game and has made the umps better, but there is something to be said for an ump having some say on very borderline pitches.
All this being said, Contreras was a beast this series.
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u/Toolb0xExtraordinary 1d ago edited 1d ago
Wouldn't allowing a certain percentage of the ball to be outside the zone just allow for even more hair-splitting and controversy?
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u/Extropian LA 1d ago
If they couldn't call it a strike if it was on the zone line, they'd just expand the zone a ball diameter on each side to reflect the existing zone.
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1d ago
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u/Dodgers-ModTeam 1d ago
Your post was removed due to being a duplicate of a recent post.
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u/DLM_13 Corey Seager 2d ago
Yeah he was insanely accurate. Kept thinking Will might need to get those eyes checked.
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u/AltruisticStomach620 1d ago edited 1d ago
Funny enough, his success rate on the season is lower than Will's. I know he was getting a lot of flak from Brewers fans too because he was just throwing challenges out there willy nilly and was at like 50% all season. But of all catchers, he was the one who made the most challenges at 185, way more than anyone else and eventually the practice paid off and he got really good at it during September and super confident as well.
Will was much better than Contreras before the injury. Led all catchers in successful challenges. You could tell he was clearly very rusty coming back and just didn't have enough time to shake off the rust. Lack of success means lack of confidence as well. He was always more conservative with challenging before but the lack of confidence absolutely meant even less challenges and less confidence using them in big moments.
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u/Sad_Impression499 Mookie Betts 2d ago
Contreras played his ass off. Sad our season is over but excited to watch this WS. It's gonna be a good one!
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u/BlueNoseTim 2d ago
maybe its the hater in me but I hope an AL team wins
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u/Sad_Impression499 Mookie Betts 2d ago
Nah man, the NL needs to hold onto the title. We can fuck with the Brewers, it's okay.
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2d ago
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u/Dr-Acula8472 Back-2-Back Champs 2d ago
Get this sore loser shit out of here. You're making us look bad.
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u/RogerDodgerWilco Yoshinobu Yamamoto 2d ago
Fuck off with that. Saw this a few times in the game chat too. You can’t prove shit because it didn’t happen. Whether it’s Contreras is lucky as fuck, or he has eagle eye sense for the ball, there’s nothing that points to them cheating.
This is different from trashtros where multiple pitchers have pointed out the banging before the WS.
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u/gonegirIamy 2025 World Series Champions 2d ago
He had Will beat all night