r/EDH • u/Ill_Hedgehog_3677 • 20h ago
Discussion Do Commander Players Genuinely Just Goldfish At Their Opponents After Death?? Please Don't Do This.
I saw some genuinely straight-up bizarre behavior in a game of mine the other day. It was a B3 pod where in game 1, one player brought out his "new, hasn't been tested" Gilgamesh deck, brought out a mix of Crystal Vein, Seething Song, and Jeska's Will to bring out his commander turn two and kill the table turn 4. In game 2 he brought out Ur-Dragon and as there were two control-style decks at the table didn't do much for most of the game before it was just me and him. He then cast Dracogenesis and the writing was on the wall, but I didn't concede let him continue with his combo, drawing cards from every dragon cast, getting more tokens, etc.
I ended up dying to Terror of the Peaks triggers and conceded, saying "let's play next." Instead the Ur-Dragon Player acted as if he didn't see me and CONTINUED NARRATING HIS TURN, describing casting more dragons, drawing more cards, attacking, etc. I walked away after multiple times saying we should shuffle up again. I CHECKED BACK 5 MINUTES LATER AND HE WAS STILL PLAYING OUT HIS TURN. Do commander players do this?? If you have me dead to rights, I'll let you kill me rather than conceding, but this was genuinely just playing with his deck in front of me for no gain. Please don't do this. Please don't. It's weird and showboaty and wastes time.
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u/TenebTheHarvester 20h ago
That’s not something I’ve seen before. I’ve had players who look at the next few cards and describe what they maybe could have done, but nothing so big as that. Personally I see no point in even that.
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u/Clean_Web7502 19h ago
Yeah sometimes after a loss I begin to flip the top to see where my out/wincon was, and usually ends up on a:
Man you got lucky, in 20 turns I would have gotten ya.
Have a laugh and shuffle.
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u/Ap0ll016 7h ago
The best version of this. Sometimes an opponent will unironically do that and say that I got lucky, but the addition of “I would’ve had you in another 20 turns” would genuinely have me giggling
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u/Old_Address3863 20h ago
It’s not for you, they’re doing it to see if their deck is working how they want.
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u/Bazoobs1 20h ago
You say this but my experience it’s usually some way of coping and demonstrating to you how if they just drew 20 more cards and had 40 more mana you’d be fuckin dead kiddo. Jokes aside, this behavior is somewhat infuriating to me. Occasionally being like “oh man my next draw would have saved me!” Is totally fine. Turning it into a seminar to show off your deck or cope with losing gets grating almost instantly.
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u/BigDreamCityscape Sultai 19h ago
Ive revealed that i had the game on my next turn, but I had spent time trying to convince my buddy to target someone else so I did it like you made the right choice
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u/Bazoobs1 11h ago
Yeah nothing wrong with that IMO although I personally try not to be deceitful in game, but that’s a personal preference. Showing your hand and being like “good thing you KO’d me” is not the same as being like “look at the top card of my deck dude!”
My experience is almost universal in that almost every time it turns into some neckbeard upending their deck and looking at me like they’re trying to get me home while I’m supposed to guess what their deck was about to do/supposed to do. Lookin at me like 😏 while they hand me their whole deck silently. I’m just like that’s great dude you’re still KO’d
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u/Green_Ad_7078 12h ago
Sure but if you are going to goldfish save it for at home or after you have lost and are waiting for next game. Wasting everyone’s time just to do something you can do by yourself is silly.
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u/Old_Address3863 20h ago
Also, have ya’ll never heard of small talk? There’s a difference between what op is saying vs someone talking about the game you just played and how it might go differently if you saw a different card.
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u/that_dude3315 19h ago
Each extra card you see is more information and experience piloting your deck. I wouldn’t take 5 minutes doing this but I absolutely play out a sequence or draw the next card or 2 to see what else I got.
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u/CreationBlues 37m ago
or quickly flip through a couple cards to see how far an out was. "whelp... that's 7 cards of nothing, I was screwed lol."
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u/Ill-Feed-247 18h ago edited 18h ago
After losing and after winning a round i always look up my next few draws and 99% of the time i am like "jep, not a single thing would do any difference here". But it's more like personal interest in my "drawing-luck". I don't show it to the opponent, because what is he doing with the information other than using it against me next round?
When others show me their next draws after the match i am like "bro i've never seen this card in my life, i have absolutely no idea what it does and how you would alter the outcome of the game with it, but good for you i guess" and mostly they get the hint.
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u/TrulyKnown 20h ago
Many, many years ago, in 2008 or so, I was jamming some casual Legacy games - back then, most Legacy decks were cheaper than the average B3 EDH deck is now. Anyways, the other guy, who I know, locks me down with [[Mindslaver]]. I jokingly say "Alright, but you have to play it out", and go to get a drink. Come back a couple minutes later, he's still moving cardboard around the table. I ask him why he's still playing, he responds that well, I didn't concede. I say fair enough, and sit down to watch him play both of our decks for the next few minutes until he finds a win condition.
Obviously not the same thing, since we knew each other at the time, and I found it more funny than annoying, but your story reminded me of it.
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u/Strawberry_Smalls 20h ago
That is not a normal occurrence. I’ve never seen someone just disregard human interaction and continue like that.
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u/clonedllama 20h ago edited 19h ago
In my experience, commander players do the exact opposite of this. If someone's elaborate combo will result in a win and no one can do anything about it, then there's no need to fully play it out.
An explanation of what the winning player would do to win is usually sufficient depending on the circumstances. Players might show what they had or say what they were going to do next.
But the end result is the same. The remaining players concede, the winner has their moment, and the game ends.
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u/knight_of_solamnia 19h ago
Hell, my pod will usually call it if an elaborate engine will probably win.
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u/Far_Worker_7180 19h ago
That's my group, we usually have limited time so getting one more game in bests maybe finding a way to stop whoever is probably going to win.
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u/InstanceFeisty 14h ago
Depends on the mood and time I think. I am always curious to see how people win, sometimes they ending up not having one piece to finish combo in the end, some times I can learn a new combo, etc. so p would always wait and see how people play.
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u/evilmidnightbomber69 17h ago
Same we just call it when win con enters. Time is limited. It annoys me when I play with this one kid who had to Telegraph every move.
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u/HankLard 14h ago
I wish commander players would just play some 1v1 before graduating to EDH. The "shuffle up and go to G2" etiquette when you know you've won or lost is something I really miss when playing commander.
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u/kilrara 20h ago
I am pretty sure most commander players do the exact opposite of this. Most of us either know when a combo is at a 'well that's that' point or a player will say 'hey, I did this. If there's no interaction it'll take me like ten minutes to do this but I'll win. Do we want to shuffle and play a new game?' and almost always everyone has enough game knowledge to say yes.
What you are describing is something I have never seen and am amazed anyone would do it. I'm not sure I would even be mad, just impressed at such a blatant show of audacity and staring in the face of commander etiquette and spitting at it.
Edit: Of course there is always 'playing it out and hoping they mess up their combo' and while I respect that at a CeDH level tournament I don't like doing it myself in casual. Ruining someone's joyous 'I DID THE THING!' on a technicality feels bad.
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u/goblin_welder 20h ago
That dude needs friends. That’s a behavior that lacks awareness.
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u/MoonTurtle7 20h ago
Based on the decks he's bringing to B3 table.
I don't think he'll get them anytime soon.
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u/Sudden-Tennis17 12h ago
Do commander player genuinely just post about every single meaningless specific annoyance they run into? Please don’t do this.
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u/TheLastOpus 20h ago
"we all conceded, it's game, we are starting the next one, if you don't want to join, could you move to a different table?"
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u/metalslug53 12h ago
I have a local that has been known to do this. I've sat in a game with him where he was playing some sort of Simic engine (I honestly don't remember who the commander was, but does it really matter? Most Simic commanders play lands and draw cards, which is precisely what this one was doing).
The pod had basically been locked down and this particular player was cycling through his deck, hitting several land drops and filling his hand. Someone asked "Is there a payout after all of this?" and he explained that he was digging for a [[Finale of Devastation]] or a [[Craterhoof Behemoth]]. He had more than enough mana available and plenty of bodies on the board, so the table all unanimously scooped and agreed to game 2. However...he just kept going. Just like OP said, he was narrating his moves and voicing his plays, but completely disregarded us and just kept solitairing away.
What ended up happening was one of the other guys said "Well you have fun with that," and picked up his mat and cards and migrated to the next table. We all followed. We hollered for a new fourth and had someone jump in. All the meanwhile, Simic guy was still digging away, but was also becoming visibly upset as he watched us all move away from his table. He shouted something about almost being done, but we had already began shuffling up and were nearly ready to jump into another game.
The funniest part was about 10 minutes into the new game, he came sulking on over, asking if it was too late for him to join in as a fifth. The same guy who migrated the table looked him dead in his eye and said "Nah man, fuck off and go back to playing solitaire with yourself."
The dude packed up and left.
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u/NightmareMuse666 11h ago
Yikes, that's brutal lmao
What's sad is that guy probably lacks the self awareness to learn from that....
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u/KindheartednessOwn17 9h ago
Damn, if he had asked before the first turn rotation I’d be more receptive but 10 minutes in? Absolute blindness lmao
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u/Serikan 15h ago
Okay I thought this was going to be:
"Ah, ya got me! I am dead. Since this deck is untested, is it okay if I stay at the table to chat and make silent 'phantom' plays as to how I would've reacted to upcoming situations had somebody else been targeted to see if my deck could've handled them?"
But no, we got a classic [[The Ur-Dragon]] player tale instead.
(I'm sure there are lots of nice TUD players, though, in my experience, this commander attracts an unusually high number of frustraring players)
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u/MethodicallyRight 12h ago
I think I got lucky with the people I started playing games with because they were very blunt and direct (not rude) whereas the atmosphere is often flooded with a lot of timid and passivity. So I learned to be much more direct than most people and I find it saves a lot of hassle.
If after 1 or 2 attempts they keep playing out their turn:
"Hey! I've conceded this game. We're done, shuffle back up and we can play again or you can avoid us as a pod from now on. You're being rude and I don't want to watch you play solitaire with your deck. Come on."
(Aggressive example) But there's no way I'm walking away from a 1v1 I've conceded 5 minutes later.
We have fairly decent Rule 0 sessions so when people break them it's a very clear "We're going to ask you to leave now. We all agreed to not do X Y Z and you're doing it so we'll find someone else."
There's no gotchas or bullying but if we all agree on terms we make sure the players who follow the rules are rewarded and not the person breaking them. It makes it pretty easy to attract other good players because there's a reputation that we don't tolerate problematic.
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u/jtclayton612 14h ago
Hi Ur dragon player here, mostly because I chose dragons instead of trains at a young age lol.
I fully commit telling people I’m going to be a problem if I get to turn 7ish.
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u/HovercraftOk9231 13h ago
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think just about everyone should be a problem by turn 7
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u/redzombie_65 12h ago
I agree, but it also makes me sad. I feel like you spend all this time making 100 card deck and then you see like 15 or so of the cards before the game is over. Disappointing.
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u/rizzo891 12h ago
It didn’t used to be that way. When EDH started out it was a super casual format specifically designed for mythics and rares too slow for other formats.
Unfortunately wizards started officially supporting it and releasing specifically commander focused cards with extreme power and it’s now unfortunately become closer to 100 card singleton standard and it shows.
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u/CLew512 12h ago
Power creep was bound to happen whether wizards supported it or not. At the end of the day people still want to win, especially if it’s the only way they are interacting with MtG at all. The commander specific cards obviously accelerate things, but most of the cards you see in a game aren’t commander specific. And many of the best cards are like rhystic study, where they’re broken because they were designed for 1v1.
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u/rizzo891 12h ago
Idk, I played with plenty of people in the past who don’t care about winning and only care about doing fun shenanigans with cards. That’s what it used to be about.
Now instead wizards just prints everything on one card and it’s boring
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u/softscene1 11h ago
I think youre describing 2 different things. People doing fun shenanigans or not has nothing to do with what gets printed. You can still do that. The format just has gotten way more popular and guess what, there are more people trying to win than people trying to do fun stuff.
People are still in control of how they build their deck regardless of what wotc prints.
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u/Baaaaaadhabits 11h ago
The issue isn’t “Ur Dragon is a problem” it’s that the pilot refuses to interrupt their line or combo for such petty things like “everyone else already conceding”
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u/rizzo891 13h ago
But there are so many other dragon decks you can make that aren’t ur dragon? “Because I like dragons” doesn’t mean “I have to play the most degenerate dragon commander I can find” lmao
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u/KrillinBigD 12h ago
The temur one is worse
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u/Serikan 12h ago
Which one, there's two now
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u/shiny_xnaut 12h ago
Both of them honestly
Ur Dragon is strong in the most boring way possible but it's not actively oppressive in the same way that Miirym and Ureni are
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u/Raser43 Grixis 12h ago
Why is your assumption that people are only selecting it for the power level. I guess playing my Ur-Dragon precon would be degenerate to you
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u/Skyflareknight 11h ago
I always wanted to have a [[The Ur-Dragon]] deck because dragons are cool but one of my friends already has him and I could have but it would have mostly been the same deck. Instead I built [[Niv-Mizzet Reborn]] as a dragon tribal blink deck.
Also I built [[The Ur-Sphinx]] the second I saw it
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u/BaconVsMarioIsRigged 10h ago
Ur dragon is not the most degenerate dragon commander lmao. It's not even close.
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u/swankyfish 15h ago
Why is it always Ur-Dragon or Atraxa players? Every damn time.
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u/IJourden 20h ago
Even correcting for the overall, let's say, uniqueness of the MtG community, that is some weird behavior.
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u/Sealarky 20h ago
After each game, I try to incorporate a discussion of what each person’s deck could have done if given another turn, if a spell wasn’t countered, etc. I find that a lot of people get satisfaction from their deck doing THE THING and by discussing it at the end of a game, they can still get that satisfaction. It also provides a good opportunity for all players to recognize the weaknesses of their decks or to realize they were lucky. That being said, if the chain or combo is going to take more than a minute or two to explain, I try to move on.
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u/DirtyTacoKid 14h ago
Yeah I figure most people do this. Seeing other possibilities helps get better at playing.
"This was my plan..."
"I could have done this..."
"Good thing you got me here because otherwise..."
Doesn't have to be like an entire turn but just showing some cards you had in hand
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u/IvanDimitriov 12h ago
So I’m always willing to let my opponents play out the thing. It feels great to get our decks to do the thing we designed them to do, and often enough we don’t get the chance to get our decks online before the game is over, so seeing your deck do the thing is good fun. And honestly being a good sport about getting your teeth kicked in from time to time is part of being a considerate opponent.
But playing solitaire for 5 mins is too much. I don’t believe in scooping, even if you know you are dead to rights. But this sounds insufferable. Shuffle em up and run it again.
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u/Cogomal 10h ago
This. My answer is always “that’s cool, I’m going to run to the bathroom/grab a beer. Show me your board when I get back. Then let’s move to next.” Let them enjoy the combo they built, but don’t waste everyone’s time. It’s rare we hit them, so good for whoever does.
Sounds like OP did just that, but his opponent got lost in the sauce and didn’t care for the rest of the players.
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u/Choobacca00 13h ago
I kind of have the opposite problem with someone in my pod where, in several games, he'd play a decent game and for some reason would scoop on his game winning turn because he doesn't check everyone's board state or fully read his own card's effects.
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u/hldsnfrgr Kozi & Ula of Meletis (K&T) 11h ago
Your guy and OP's guy should play together.
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u/Choobacca00 11h ago
I'll do you one better.
Same guy in my pod plays a mono-black Super Shredder deck in a game and somehow... does not play a black mana land in the deck for several turns right from the start of the game despite having a basic swamp in his opening hand. His inexplicable terrible reasoning is wanting to get all of the colorless lands he had out first. How does somebody throw away all that potential of having a problematic, borderline lethal damage commander with menace to boot after a few turn cycles especially if everyone plays even a fetchland by not putting out the commander on turn 2 when it might be too early to waste removal effects on it...
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u/pretzel_icecream 12h ago
I know a person who does this too, but usually I think it's because he's tilted more so than unknowledgeable in his case.
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u/TheFinalEnd1 12h ago
I have someone like this too, where after a board wipe or a particularly devastating turn, he is left in the best position but he still considers conceding. He ragequits all the time.
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u/solbadguy89 20h ago
Def not normal behaviour. Lucky you to get to witness this !
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u/StrideyTidey 19h ago
Did the other two players sit there and let him keep goldfishing? I feel like at a certain point I'd put some lands on the table and start "playing" interaction as if I was still alive lol.
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u/MeatAbstract 1h ago
Why the fuck do people have a singular bad experience while playing commander and then decide "All commander players are like this!" It's fucking bizarre behaviour that would lead to some abhorrent results if you adopted it in other settings. You just had a shitty experience with one guy - why would you assume that was the norm for the majority of commander players?
Karma farming bollocks
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u/StormBlessed145 15h ago
I don't do this. I've never seen people do this. I have seen people do another minute to see if they actually could win, but never five.
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u/Bromelia_and_Bismuth 13h ago edited 13h ago
No that's pretty abnormal. I had an ex that used to break out into song randomly, mid-conversation, almost always while someone else was talking. If you tried to continue the conversation in any way, she'd sing louder and for longer. This has so much more in common with that than typical player behavior.
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u/RealHobbyBob 20h ago
Yes after I kill you, I continue for 5 more turns just to make sure you’re extra dead. Do not interrupt me, peon.
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u/GuyAWESOME2337 13h ago
If its gonna be a crazy swing, I might ask the table if they were ok with me playing out the turn real quick just so I can see certain triggers because they make my brain happy, but everybody at the table is perfectly within their rights to say no, and that's completely alright
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u/Square-Buy-7403 13h ago
I usually play with a couple people and we let random 4ths join when they ask. If this happened we would just move and start a new game probably.
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u/Short_Peak_7824 11h ago
I've seen it. I wouldn't call it particularly normal, but in the times I've seen it, it's been because they wanted to go through the motions for themselves, or to show everyone else how dead they were going to be if they didn't concede.
I can respect the former, the latter is annoying, but I don't see it as much different than the time honoured tradition of telling everyone how dead they were if you got one more turn/if you hadn't cast that/if they weren't mana screwed/etc.
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u/BoogersNCum4u2 7h ago
I saw a meme once about "casting the Agony of Defeat" it's an intangible card that exists in everyone's decks and you may cast it for free upon losing the game. It allows you to explain how you would have won if you hadn't lost. You still lose the game.
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u/BloodyCumbucket 💚🤍Witch Maw💙🖤 7h ago
Also. If you're reading this. You just lost the game.
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u/SpotAgile9094 10h ago
Dude, those are way too different to compare. One is an hypothetical scenario in their head, the other I someone taking you hostage for whatever reason they may have and not respecting your time.
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u/ArkopticAU 3h ago
Closest thing I or anyone else I’ve played with has done was a few nights ago, when I cast [[windfall] plus [[notion theif]], my opponents conceded and I asked if they could wait until after combat so I could swing my 1/1 lifelinker to end the game with 69 life instead of 68. No, not normal. If the only reason for doing something is a self-jerk, it’s assholeish.
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u/Rezahn 11h ago
You have encountered one of the many types of stereotypical neurodivergent nerds with a propensity for hyper fixation and an inability to read social cues.
I've seen a few people like this while playing mtg and other board games.
It's certainly not an EDH player thing, and more that we just have a lot of people with neurodivergence in our community. It's not a good excuse for his behavior, of course, more of an explanation.
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u/CouncilofAutumn 9h ago
Oftentimes I read a post on this subreddit and go "nothing about what's wrong with this person being described has anything to do with magic"
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u/planting49 20h ago
That's wild... I have never seen someone keep going after everyone is dead/concedes.
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u/One-Advisor9491 19h ago
I never experienced this, fortunately, but I play with regulars most of the time, so that's probably a factor.
The only thing I sometimes do after the game is over is to reveal the next few draws to see if I had an out.
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u/AromaticSpread 19h ago
I totally get where you’re coming from, playing with strangers and all. This is something we do encourage in our pod, just for the sake of seeing how ridiculous the rest of the turn can get.
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u/DadKnight 18h ago
Obviously not normal. People with, let's say "poor social skills", flock to this kind of game. Sometimes they do weird ass shit. Happens
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u/midboez 13h ago
I wouldn’t say this a “commander” thing and it’s more of a specific type of player thing. I’ve had this happen before with a friend of mine we were playing two randoms. Fast forward to game two, friend pulls out his try hard deck and just shut down the Ur-Dragon player by like turn 3 or turn 4. All of a sudden that dude didn’t think it was so fun and just got up and walked away.
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u/IamSithCats 7h ago
I don't think I've run into this. I've known plenty of people who will look at the next few cards they would've drawn (I often do this as well), but no more than that.
Then again, people in my group don't usually scoop unless they have to leave, either.
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u/SettingGreen3880 6h ago
Sounds like he wants to play out the deck. I would have asked him if that's the case. Maybe he just didn't hear you the first time, idk. Usually my experience when running a combo deck is people will keep playing the game and act like I don't exist off winning a combo. Not every pod, of course.
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u/Trowway808 20h ago
NGL I read the title and thought it was talking about after you die it's not okay to goldfish while waiting for next game.
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u/gravygrowinggreen 6h ago
Sure, there's all kinds of people in this hobby. Not all of them are socially well adjusted, not all of them are looking for the same things you are. Just find someone else to play with, or if they're receptive (it sounds like this guy wasn't), explain why what they're doing bothers you.
I dislike this tendency of people to take every bizarre experience they have with others and try to farm karma out of it. You're going to meet people you have friction with in real life, constantly. Sometimes the friction will be their fault. Sometimes it will be yours. Sometimes it will be both, and sometimes it will be nobodies fault. Just move on man.
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18h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Itburnswhenipee27 15h ago
Yeahhhh buddy, ngl, I don’t want to sit there and watch someone jerk themselves off for 20 minutes because they’re excited about a combo. If it was some kind of crazy sick combo that ends the game quickly, hell ya man! Do it up. But if it’s clear you’re infinitely digging for some random win, then yeah, you’re just there jerkin it.
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u/Jimanji333 15h ago
Honestly nah, I don’t got time to watch someone play with themselves and try to deck themselves, they can goldfish by themselves for that.
I guess it makes sense you are fine with a rude play style since you are a pubstomper.
Assuming you aren’t bullshitting as OP said the same player played Gilgamesh and Ur Dragon.
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u/BuckUpBingle 16h ago
Moxfield and archidekt are commonly used websites for hosting deck lists. They’re much more legible than what you’re doing here.
Secondly: you killed the table on turn 4. Lucky starts are lucky starts, but that’s not the kind of deck you should be playing against a B3 pod. You might technically qualify as B3 by having only 3 game changers, but the fact they are all fast mana makes it clear your goal is to rush down the table as soon as possible. That’s explicitly not the point of bracket 3.
As for the other game: the other player was certainly fine to play out his board state in a literal sense. He wanted to see what the deck could do. But it definitely rides the line on rudeness to ignore op saying he’d like to play a new game and shuffling up multiple times. None of us were there, so we don’t know the context and can’t really comment on the social aspect, but acting like op was just being salty if the dragon player was literally sitting there for five minutes after the game ended still goldfishing his board out is pretty tone deaf.
This game is a social one, and part of that means respecting other people’s time. Whether it’s the time I spend deck building, shuffling up, and starting a game, just to have OP go off before bracket tolerances or sitting around, taking up table space at a public play environment playing out a post game that doesn’t matter, lack of respect for other players is a recipe for generating grudges and making enemies.
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u/Emotional-Garbage888 17h ago
City of traitors, pyretic ritual...op aint wrong, you are running a lot of fast mana. Fast mana is not automatically a game changer but it certainly powers up your deck a lot
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u/BusterNuttley 15h ago edited 15h ago
It’s important to remember that the bracket system isn’t just a game changer checker. Arguably more important than the game changers even being included is what turn your deck is generally capable of ending the game by. A deck can be bracket 4 without any game changers if it’s optimized well enough.
Bracket 3 doesn’t anticipate someone going for the win until turn 6 or later. This is why fast mana in general raises the eyebrows below bracket 4/5; they are often not explicitly game changers, but accelerate the game significantly. Sounds to me like you might have a bracket 4 on your hands. That’s not to say a bracket 4 can’t exist at the same pod as 3s, but expectations are everything. Being honest about your deck is the difference between your pod seeing it as an uphill battle/arch enemy game, or you being a dick by trying to squeak out a “free” win.
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u/DustyDust4 9h ago
To win turn 6 with Gilgamesh you’d have to kill one person turn 4, one turn 5, and one turn 6 unless you get incredibly lucky with flips. If someone hits you with aetherize you’re out of the game. But last person probably scoops turn 5 if they don’t have an answer
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u/Play-Mation 17h ago
Idk why you’re getting downvoted, your right
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u/Emotional-Garbage888 17h ago
The main thing is that the bracket system is a rough guideline. If I follow it, the first sliver with only slivers and lands is b1 ((themed as oops, all slivers when I could run cards like profane tutor)) but is clearly still a b3....I hate it when people cite game changers as the reason their deck is "B3"
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u/Play-Mation 16h ago
Yea I mean all you have to do is cast Gilgamesh and then you will essentially win the turn after if your opponents don’t interact with you
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u/Green_Ad_7078 13h ago
So you pubstomped a bracket 3 table… good job I guess maybe play within your bracket and people won’t complain
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u/SenatorPickle 3h ago
Lots of people here saying you CANT win t4 with a b3 deck. You absolutely can. The difference between b3 and b4 is consistency. If you win t4 only 1/50 games, that’s not a b4 deck. If it’s 1/5 games, that’s a b4 deck. I’ve won t5 with my Counter Intelligence precon before, but that only happened 1 time. I’ve also won t4 with Counter Blitz a few times, but that’s my favorite precon and I’ve played a little over 100 games with it. Then I have my Azula b4 deck, which can win t4-6 pretty consistently, I’d say between 1/4 to 1/6 of the time. If this guy won t4 once but only ever got to play his deck twice, it’s not automatically a b4 deck. Not to mention Archidect and deck checker both say his deck is b3
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u/Educational_Emu_9468 10h ago
Alright, I had to make an account just to respond because this is hilarious.
I beat this guy and then jerked off for several minutes.
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u/Great_Intention_3509 14h ago
Import your deck list into https://deckcheck.co/
Or https://archidekt.com/. It will help to determine your bracket better. But basically if you are winning by turn 1-5 you are bracket 4/5- 2 card combos, fast mana, tutors all speed up you win condition. If the only reason you are not winning in less than 6 turns bc someone countered or removed a win condition or commander than you are still bracket 4/5. Game changers are not an excuse to say your deck isn’t higher than what it is.Bracket system were designed to keep games fair and competitive. Rule O conversation are especially important for the health of games. Most of my decks are bracket 3 but they can all win exactly on turn 6, so I let randoms know that my deck is borderline 3/4 due to how fast it can win and I ask if they need to to play something else, or I find higher power tables to join.
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u/DustyDust4 10h ago
Gilgamesh was my first deck. Mine is bracket 2 without much fast mana but my arena Gilgamesh deck is very similar to yours. Very fun to flip into potentially game winning turns or literally nothing.
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u/iWinkle 8h ago
OP definitely made it sound like Gilgamesh was also the Ur-Dragon player, but that’s not the case?
Whenever anyone is doing anything they or anyone thinks is cool or unusual I’ll happily watch, it’s usually pretty fun. It does sound like OP maybe wants to just jam as many games as he can, which wouldn’t be my ideal pod but meh he can do him.
On your deck though, if you can win T4 it’s not B3. Having 3 game changers isn’t a hard and fast rule that determines your bracket, I’m not sure if it’s the most up to date information because if you search for it the outdated infographic from the announcement is the first result (great work WOTC) but a B3 deck can expect to play at least 6 turns before threatening a win, often the game changers in a B3 deck are more game winning/value oriented, fast mana is generally B4 - though again this isn’t a firm rule, more guidance. I think this abstract approach is why the bracket system can be a bit crap and definitely confusing for new players.
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u/BEER_G00D 13h ago
I've seen a few folks do it. If at a place with enough people, just start a new game without him.
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u/Gussie18 12h ago
So you played a game and no one did that. You played another where a single player did that and I’m assuming those weren’t your first two games eve, and you jump straight to, “Do commander players genuinely do this thing that I’ve only seen once?” What a stupid conclusion.
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u/firedrakes 19h ago
Ocd, learning win con trigger for the first time for that deck or just being rude. Normal 1 of those 3
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u/Synicizym 1️⃣🔵⚫️🔴 19h ago
Some people really want to play out shit, kind of self absorbed but as long as it’s not every game it’s just a quirk.
Have had some games where one player is left at the table yet no one is dead even, still at the table and they are still going off. Let people have their fun but don’t let it become self indulgent to some degree
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u/jakedaripperr 16h ago
Card games do attract a lot of socially inept people. Always has been, always will be
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u/Destroyer_2_2 16h ago
And this was in person? That’s insane.
I figured it was online and you just muted your mic by mistake
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u/AdministrationOk8888 16h ago
I've never even imagined something like this. Definitely not common, you just found a person who seriously does not understand that Magic is about the people you play it with. That person probably doesn't really have any friends because a person with any social skills would be too aware and ashamed to do this. Cringe and sad.
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u/SnowpigQc 16h ago
I've had a combo player be so slow that I went outside, pick up some food, come back and eat it in front of him before he finished doing his things/ narration
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u/JayWolf83 15h ago
Autism, it's autism. The one thing I hate about playing this game, it attracts autistic people like no other game and some of the more severe cases make you want to rip out your hair.
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u/Jin-Gitaxias-Mom 15h ago
I’ve been there before, had a game where I had a combo to manifest my whole deck and the win was seemingly inevitable, two players scooped. Last player said he had interaction and wanted to play it out, I basically guided him how to disrupt me because it was the first time playing my deck, I’d rather win fair.
This guy then untaps and does the usual Nov Mizzit BS, I scooped, and dude just keeps going and going while the three of us are like “you got it dude GGs…”
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u/BlueTemplar85 14h ago
and conceded, saying "let's play next." Instead the Ur-Dragon Player acted as if he didn't see me
This ignoring part is the issue, not the goldfishing. If they instead asked : "mind if I goldfish for a bit" and everyone else did not mind, then I guess you would not have made this post ?
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u/Bushin82 14h ago
I avoid people who loves feeding their ego. I am there to play and socialize. Weird flexing is just another level of insecure.
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u/Choice_Internet_869 14h ago
So, the sad truth of life is, a lot of people are alone and have no one to really “show” off their things to or impress. My kids show me the dumbest shit, and they are so proud of it, you don’t lose this as you get older. A lot of magic players are socially awkward to begin with, so to me, when I see people like this, it reminds me of how proud my kids are showing off something cool they found or did.
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u/Voiddredd 14h ago
I will say, the first game after i added Terror of the Peaks and Roaming Throne and Twinflame Tyrant to my Ur-Dragon deck i definitely did draw out a win a bit and cleared the board with Terror Triggers before killing the players because i had 3 Roaming thrones due to Miirym and then that made 5 Terror of the peaks and they were all getting super amped by the 5 copies of Twinflame Tyrant all getting 3 additional triggers from roaming thrones which i may have done math wrong but i think that ends up being x1mil per terror of the peak trigger, because dragon math is one hell of a drug. but that only boiled down to "hehe big number at all your creatures first then big number at your faces game over go next"
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u/ManufacturerLopsided 12h ago
If this was competitive play, I would be fair enough to point out that, you don't really wanna tell your opponent all the tricks you have up your sleeves, the less he knows is the more he has to guess about... and the more he can guess wrong. Also, there are rules about wasting time like this, so I doubt this was a competitive game.
If this was casual play, I do agree that likely he is not aware this is just goofy and a waste of time, and I'd gently point out that, if he wanted to do a serious examination of the deck from the start... I'd be happy to play a serious game and dig through the game together, maybe even agreeing to play with cards exposed to talk through 'what the best play is' at any given point (helping people understand what's possible and learning the mechanics of the game in a deep way is the best method to shake up the gaming environment, IMO). But fishbowling just proves the deck has some sort of synergy with itself, that you haven't loaded it up with the wrong things and you've got your land properly mixed so you don't statistically mess yourself up... it doesn't account for another player who has their own setup and ability to change the game state in some significant way (coughCOUNTERSPELLScough).
I'd probably mention something politely and go from there... Nobody likes being the dead horse that's being beaten even more after dying.
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u/WenegadeWaiduh 12h ago
Screw that op, i wanna see the cool combo turns, only interesting thing about the game after 15 years lol
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u/Warock095 12h ago
I've had the problem of people asking me to concede when im not dead to rights and ive had the well 1 more turn people but I've never seen someone so sure they didn't win that they continued to try and kill a player that left
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u/FlySkyHigh777 12h ago
Yeah that's definitely not normal. If anything the opposite is true, I regularly see people declare a win without evidence of how they're going to win being made obvious to the table.
This person probably has a specific flavor of neurodivergence.
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u/ItsKendrone 11h ago
Nope, we usually scoop and start setting up for the next game. While shuffling up, we let them explain their turn and how badly they could have destroyed us. More like a post game review.
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u/gavvywavvy 11h ago
I have the opposite problem in my pod. One player in our pod lost to a super long combo from another player it was like a 14 minute turn where he had 20+ cards in hand and had an ability that made spells cost wuburg less. Now this player tries to convince the whole table to scoop any time someone is gonna have a massive turn. He’s always like yeah guys we’re done let’s just start a new game. It’s fine but no one ever gets to do their big turn unless someone else decides not to scoop
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u/EllspethCarthusian 11h ago
Y’all sure let other gamers get away with a lot of shit behavior. Just tell them to stop or pack up your cards and move to a different table. Like, why are you even playing with these people? Cultivate the players you want to play with.
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u/Cannon254 11h ago
I had a guy specifically leave me alive, even if it meant missing triggers, just so he could play with his deck in front of me like this. It felt lile he just wanted me there so he could do the equivalent of jorking it under the table.
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u/thefallingflowerpot 11h ago
I have literally never seen this happen and I have been playing for 20 years. So, to answer your question, typically no, Commander Players Genuinely Just Say Good Game, and shuffle up to play the next one.
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u/Probably_Kev 10h ago
I hate this. Time is the worst thing about commander so if you win let’s call it and play again. I watched someone play out a 20 minute turn when we dead on minute three. Just take the W and let’s start again.
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u/RBVegabond 9h ago
I have a friend who does this to practice triggers. I usually grab a drink and some snacks and come back to see how absurd the turn has become before grabbing a different deck for the next game.
You can also use it as a commercial break for bathroom runs while they talk it out.
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u/eat_your_oatmeal 9h ago
the problem is guys like this ur-dragon player basically live for seeing their decks pop off leading to never ending turns, they’re not there to have fun socializing and hopefully having close games with well matched decks, frankly they’re bored out of their minds until they finally get their combo going and everyone else is made to sit and watch their sick synergies in action. just replace them in the pod with a normal person who isn’t on that particular part of the spectrum. they’ll understand (or not, who cares).
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u/ShawnJ34 8h ago
That’s why you concede when you know you lost it so they can see everyone preparing for the next game and get pressured to hurry it along. A lot of these people are neurodivergent and legit can’t recognize social cues and just need the little push. If it’s just a dickhead me and the boys will ask if he’s planning to shuffle up and if he continued on all 3 of us bounce and now he can goldfish by himself.
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u/TopHatPenguin12 8h ago
I don’t give people a hard time goldfishing a turn on their own when they die as it’s a great way to learn the game better and your deck but on a victory actually playing it out? Bit off
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u/waterslurpingnoises 8h ago
Sometimes it's curiosity of what would happen or what the deck could do, but yeah if it's a waste of time for others it's not something I would at least do..
I'm guilty of looking at the next few cards after losing though, just to see if the next draws would have any impact or not lol
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u/dukeofkherkeep 7h ago
Some of our CEDH players do this and it can get kinda crazy - they are playing out all the triggers upon triggers upon triggers to make sure they havent set them selvesup for a "draw" or will actually kill everyone not just generate a buncha stuff. Everyone can scooop, start other games, etc and they will still be there practicing and counting. Its kinda funny and sad in a way but they are always prepping for the next tournament (which from we are at can be an overnight drive for them) and so its kinda their life at the moment.
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u/DisturbedFlake 7h ago edited 7h ago
If I’m going for a personal achievement like doing [X] thing because it’s cool to me. Such as getting my creature’s power stupid high from a couple different effects so I can see how much I can push it (rather than an infinite combo that can easily be shortcut). I might ask “hey just let me do this thing real quick so I can see how it would’ve panned out”
But if they’re impatient or already shuffled up, then it’s too late. The game is over. I’ll shuffle up and move on too.
The idea behind wanting to play it out is about wanting to have said I did a cool thing. But the key is to do it in a timely manner or knowing when to give up on the idea and start the next game
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u/BloodyCumbucket 💚🤍Witch Maw💙🖤 7h ago
Me and my friends do this with our bracket 5 decks. When I'm running a playline, hit the win, then roll through efficiency strategies or areas where I can tweak the playline. What if you had a counter or removal here? This is the pivot. What if x? Then y. That bracket can die in the margins, so pushing efficiency makes sense. Lower bracket? That seems self serving.
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u/Safe-Butterscotch442 7h ago
I don't think it's that weird, or even showboaty. I think it's pretty typical Johnny behavior. Some of us may bury it better in social settings where it isn't appreciated, but there are a LOT of Magic players that hate when our opponents scoop before we're ready to let the game end. Even if it's not me popping off, I'd absolutely rather watch a player play out their whole deck over a 15 minute combo turn than just scoop and move on. I know that's not most players, but it's definitely some of us, and it's not the end of the world to just let a player have their fun. He wasn't hurting anyone; he didn't demand you stay while he finished his combo; he didn't do anything offensive or unsportsmanlike. Why do you feel the need to shake him and this attitude towards the card game? I'd have sat it out and considered myself fortunate to do so.
(The winning on turn 4 thing however...)
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u/andyhall23 5h ago
well there is a part of the Magic community that doesn't have great social skills due to mental health problems and the like
Some weird neck beards like to do that too , so I mean it could have been you ran into one of the many people that are like what I described
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u/Ohnf_DIG 5h ago
I misunderstood the title at first. At first I thought OP was talking about getting knocked out and then goldfishing your deck while the rest of the table plays it out, and I was like, "Oh yeah, I do that sometimes."
I did not have "playing out an entire turn even after the rest of the pod is dead" on my bingo card.
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u/MagicalGirlPaladin 5h ago
It's practice. You don't learn your lines by having them on a screen in front of you, you need to do them out in the wild at some point. Still, it's rude to just blank you like that.
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u/BackinTime5585 4h ago
I mean, I might ask someone to play out their turn if I think I have a potential counter and they offer an opening. I've even stretched a game out for a possible opening as well. I was mad creating treasures whichnwas keeping me ahead of his cards forcing me to save permanents, it was slow but it could have offered and opening. I lost anyways from a misplay. But continuing a turn well after a defeat/concession. That's an odd one. Most people might repeat it a couple times for curiosity. But nothing more than something that would take up a moment or two.
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u/Emergency_Stage_5111 3h ago
Surprisingly enough. The general magic audience doesn’t have a fantastic amount of healthy social interaction so they don’t really know how to behave around other people. I’ve only gone to 1 public commander night and within 5 mins had someone throwing a mini tantrum
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u/Remarkable-Tree9721 36m ago
I wish so many "neurally divergent" 'tarded people didn't play this game.
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u/UncleLongArms23 20h ago
It seems a lot of MTG players don’t realize that this game, along with many other games, attract people that may be…completely socially inept. There’s a lot of posts on this subreddit along the lines of “someone in my pod does X and it’s super weird” Yeah. It is weird, because they have little social skills.
Once you accept that, things become a little more clear and not as surprising.