Question about 2C

[u/iXeons]

Seeing a lot of discourse on the socials regarding our 2C, with people saying that Nuge isn’t second line C material anymore.

What do ya’ll think?

It’s easy to say that given his age and the fact that he hasn’t played yet.

But he hasn’t played yet, so it’s also hard to judge.

I think he still has a year or two at least. But it is a faster and faster league.

[u/Reddit_Only_4494]

When the team gets healthy it appears that there will be a lot of options.

Has Podz given any reason why he should leave #1 when Hyman returns or give up the at the next spot on PP1? Hyman probably wasn't 100% for the first couple of games which could explain why he started on #2. Or Podz was just impressing the hell out of Babs in practice. But who knows.

Suppose these are nice problems to have.....but I personally think Nuge will be fine at 2C. But will it be with Hyman & Kapanen or Podz & Kapanen?

And Savoie needs to eventually fit in somewhere.

The plane back and forth to Bakersfield will be very busy the next few weeks.

[u/Meepmeepimmajeep2789 → u/Reddit_Only_4494]

Podz has been fantastic, I think we run Hyman in line 2. Gives us some decent depth.

[u/Thelynxer → u/Reddit_Only_4494]

I pretty much expect Podz to be a part of any line Draisaitl is on going forward. The two of them are just money together. Zero reason to split them up right now.

I'm hoping Babcock ends up splitting up McDavid and Draisaitl for 5v5. I just think the team is more dangerous when the opposing team has more than one line to worry about.

[u/Reddit_Only_4494 → u/Thelynxer]

This may be the biggest difference between Babcock and Knoblauch/Woodcroft.

I don't see Babs as a line juggling guy. I'm pretty old school myself in my amateur knowledge. If lines keep juggling, no cohesion is possible.

Guys get used to playing with one another. Know the patterns. Know where the other guy will be. Juggle lines too much and that cohesion is much more difficult to achieve.

Elective line juggling (meaning not because of injury) by the Oilers has always bothered me and I've always felt that inconsistency contributed to the team's inconsistency.

I'd bet hard dollars that big 3 (McDrai + Hyman) feedback to management and then to Babs would have included that.

It was a crap shoot waiting for Stauffer to post the "morning skate" lines for us to know who was playing with whom that evening. It shouldn't change game to game like it was.

[u/Thelynxer → u/Reddit_Only_4494]

I definitely agree with that. Line chemistry is a huge thing. Obviously we know that McDavid and Draisaitl have chemistry, but McDavid also has chemistry with basically anyone you put him with because he's just that good. Draisaitl requires a bit more of a specific type of player, and Podz is that guy.

Lack of line cohesion, like you said, I think is a big reason a lot of our younger guys have struggled to get minutes, or even stay in the NHL. Savoie seems to have finally cracked the roster last season, but Howard hasn't been so lucky in the past. I'm hoping this is his year. Only issue is that Babcock has him in a 4th line role. He does need to work on his defensive game, and play away from the puck, so maybe that is the right path for him to grind that out, but ideally he'll get promoted more of a top 6 role once he's able to prove himself.

So we'll see if the extended time spent with static linemates ends up helping the Oilers players long term. I hope so.

[u/TwitchyOarsman → u/Thelynxer]

I think the reverse - Draisaitl is the easier guy to play with because he slows the game down. McDavid’s speed can make it a bit more challenging to find the right wingers.

[u/Thelynxer → u/TwitchyOarsman]

I don't think either one is particularly hard to play with, but I think Draisaitl relies on someone else to get the puck and pass to him, whereas McDavid often does all of that himself, and is far more likely to skate the puck into the zone.

What I would like to see when everyone is healthy is Hyman/McDavid/Savoie and Howard/Draisaitl/Podkolzin. I don't know if Babcock will give those kinda minutes to Howard though, so that might be a lofty hope by me.

[u/TwitchyOarsman → u/Thelynxer]

Drai also carries the pick into the zone but it’s more through brute strength rather than speed à la McDavid. Both of these guys are a joy to watch. Which is why if they don’t win in Edmonton it’ll be a tragedy.

[u/Chopper_Fortnite → u/Reddit_Only_4494]

My thought is I would like to see how a Hyman-Nuge-Savoie on the second line would do. Podzkolzin has been so good it’s going to be hard to take him off the top line

[u/ThatAngeryBoi → u/Chopper_Fortnite]

I could see that line combo being filthy once they all get going up to their NHL speed. Savoie and RNH to play heavy defense and Hyman to burst out of the zone on a breakaway sounds really gravy for any D zone draws, and obviously Hyman going right to the net makes any line with him on it great in the O zone. Savoie is fast enough to make up for any speed deficiencies from the other 2, I love this idea for a 2nd line

[u/laryldavis → u/Reddit_Only_4494]

I was thinking Podz has been so good that maybe they use him on other lines to drive play for someone like RNH, you know Hyman and Savoie can also work with 97/29 but it feels like Podkolzin has found another level.

[u/Master_Airline4143 → u/laryldavis]

Feels crazy to split up dri and podz.

[u/laryldavis → u/Master_Airline4143]

Stacking one line is not going to work all season. If they want to keep 97 and 29 together they are going to have to find a solution for L2 and I think Podz is proving he can play this system and provide shooting, physicality, and play driving that L2 is going to need. 

I also don’t like Savoie and RNH together on a line without 97 or 29, too similar.

[u/Master_Airline4143 → u/laryldavis]

If you’re splitting up mcdri i think you go podz and dri L2. Mcdavid hyman line 1. And you flip nuge and savoi in the open slots. Maybe bring back the dri pod kap line

[u/laryldavis → u/Master_Airline4143]

I agree with that too, that is my personal preference but it seems like that is not something we are going to see until Savoie is back in like December or they get another top 6 winger (doubtful). 

Draisaitl-McDavid-Hyman are still a super line and could be as effective as the current L1. I just think Podkolzin-RNH-Savoie looks better to me than Hyman-RNH-Savoie. Or Savoie on L1 and Podkolzin-RNH-Hyman and they just throw everything at the net!

[u/Spare-Combination-64 → u/laryldavis]

You can use it at home then you can line match

[u/Chopper_Fortnite → u/Master_Airline4143]

But it also feels crazy to split up McDavid and Hyman

[u/cheekycherokee → u/Chopper_Fortnite]

Then run McDavid with Hyman and Draisaitl with Podz. Then rotate out Savoie and Nuge between those pairings.

[u/DuffMan4Mayor → u/cheekycherokee]

Babs said he wants 97 and 29 together the team is killing it. Ice time isn’t too crazy for MCD yet.

What makes you think they go to 97/18/X and 29/92/x.

I think the obvious is 97/29/92 and 93/18/22 once they all get healthy as a starting point.

[u/cheekycherokee → u/DuffMan4Mayor]

I agree, I’m just responding to OP saying if you absolutely have to split up 29 and 97, that should be the move. Personally, I think it would be crazy to move Podkolzin off the first line at this time. It’s early, but we could be looking at a true breakout performance from Podz this year.

[u/Master_Airline4143 → u/Chopper_Fortnite]

I would agree if podz had not put up 7 goals in 6 games. No fault of hymans but I feel he might have to fight to get that role back.

[u/cheekycherokee → u/laryldavis]

Podz is leading the team in goals. No chance you move him off the top line.

[u/laryldavis → u/cheekycherokee]

Not if it makes the team deeper?

[u/cheekycherokee → u/laryldavis]

He’s scoring at over a goal per game right now. Obviously that’s not a sustainable pace, but it’s possible that Podz is breaking out into the player he was drafted to be.

That sort of production is not something we should be messing with. As long as Podkolzin is scoring as a first liner, he should remain on the first line.

[u/KillerCayman → u/cheekycherokee]

It seems like Podz might be even more effective with McD. Personally I would keep that whole line together and let them create havoc throughout the league.

[u/Spideyjust → u/Reddit_Only_4494]

Hyman and Kapanen to start, with Savoie replacing Kapanen if the top 6 is fully healthy. I don't think you can take Podz off that top line as long as you're keeping McDrai together.

Hyman will probably replace Kapanen on the PP, then the discussion between him and Podz on the PP will really start when Nuge is back. I lean Hyman over Podz for the right shot, but Podz has 3 PP goals already.

[u/randomnamenooneuses]

He can be the 2C as long as there are wingers driving the line. He’s a support guy for a scoring line at this stage and traditionally you want the 2C to be a driver of the line.

Construct it differently and he will be fine. Savoie and Hyman would suffice. Swap Podz for Savoie if you need to mix things up a bit.

[u/Konker101 → u/randomnamenooneuses]

A Savoie-Nuge-Hyman line would be a perfect responsible hockey line that can get some sustained pressure in the ozone for some good chances. Its got a good mix of speed, forechecking, skill that i think would benefit all 3 players styles.

[u/EirHc → u/randomnamenooneuses]

Savoie and Hyman would suffice.

The bandaid line

[u/TheRealSlakySFSB]

They should give Savoie a shot

Run RNH - Savoie - Hyman

[u/thee_artful_dodger → u/TheRealSlakySFSB]

Did he play C in jr?

[u/TheRealSlakySFSB → u/thee_artful_dodger]

Yeah

[u/SelfAwareSeaWolf]

I’m a HUGE NUGE fan. The walls of my basement would confirm that lol.

That said, I would rather see Nuge start transitioning to 3 C and heavy PP minutes. Need to get the young guys into the top 6.

[u/huskies_62 → u/SelfAwareSeaWolf]

I think you are right.

[u/Rattimus]

Nuge is my boy (hence the flair), but the past couple seasons he seems to have lost a step to my eyes, and I'm not sure a Cup winning team has him as their 2C. He would be best on a wing I think at this point.

He's still a good complimentary player, to be clear, just 2C is a demanding position and he is in his mid 30's now.

[u/CervantesX]

Nuge has had the wheels played off him the last few years, and it has showed. He's also had poor systems and a rotating cast of wingers.

This year, he's had a full summer of rest and training, and if this injury is not the lingering kind he should get up to game speed quickly. He'll have consistent Babs systems, and likely consistent lines.

So, I think he'll look a lot better this year. He's never been a faceoff ace but he can hold his own. He'd be a perfectly acceptable 2C.

That said, I think we should absolutely spend what it takes to get Shane Wright, put him at 2C, and put Nuge at 3C and make a third scoring line.

[u/WestFilm9269]

Does he automatically go on PP1?

[u/randomnamenooneuses → u/WestFilm9269]

He excels there. It’s his strength and he makes the big guys better on the power play. So yes he has to, even if he’s a third liner, he is elite on that power play unit.

[u/No_Season1716]

He hasn’t been a quality C in a long time.

[u/Sportslegend → u/No_Season1716]

He was good in the 25 playoffs when flanked with two big wingers, Hyman and Kane.

[u/No_Season1716 → u/Sportslegend]

So two years ago he had to be carried. Tracks well to my comment.

[u/Robbap]

Lots of people debating whether Nuge is a 2C any more, without looking at his wingers when he’s played there.

It’s been a decade of getting handmedowns. “This guy didn’t mesh well with McDavid”, “this guy doesn’t have chemistry with Drai.”

Instead of giving Nuge the leftovers, and judging him by how well he makes it work (because he’s a chameleon who changes his play style depending of what any coach has asked of him), maybe give him wingers for him and see how he does with that.

[u/arped]

With Savvy and Hyman driving the line, I could see him holding his own at 2C

[u/BillyZoomTheCat]

I think #29 is 2C material.

[u/zboss9876]

He's a very good player, but he's never shown he can carry a line as a C. He's a far better complimentary player, defensive conscience, etc. And he's noticeably slowed down since his 100pt season. Best bet is to try someone else at 2C who might be able to grow into the role.

[u/seemefail]

He is not a top 6 C any more

His faceoffs are bad, he’s slowing down, honestly he’s never led a producing line in years

[u/PandaBearJelly]

He's still a better option than Dickinson, but yeah, he's better suited as a winger at this stage. I think our best in-house solution is not running Drai as McDavid's winger but Babcock doesn't have much interest in that for now. It will be really interesting to see how things roll out when everyone is healthy.

[u/deliciousfishstick5 → u/PandaBearJelly]

I say we keep mcdrai together. We can get a good second line and probably 3rd line when everyone is healthy.

But I'm sure the lines will be good regardless

[u/PandaBearJelly → u/deliciousfishstick5]

Yeah, I just meant we don't have a perfect natural fit for second line C, not that I think we need to break them up. I still think we'll be very ok when everyone is healthy.

[u/deliciousfishstick5 → u/PandaBearJelly]

May be Formenton.

[u/koalafly → u/deliciousfishstick5]

That’s a stretch

[u/blitzerdonkey → u/PandaBearJelly]

If everyone is healthy 😢

[u/PandaBearJelly → u/blitzerdonkey]

I actually meant to say if haha. Definitely not something we can count on, but hopefully thinking I guess.

[u/blitzerdonkey → u/PandaBearJelly]

I legitimately feel like our team is cursed lol. Before I knew that was a breathing strip on McDavid's nose my immediate reaction was "Oh great!! What now?!" 😂

[u/Machelscott]

Honestly the way Babcock talked about him playing all-out as a centre versus more relaxed as a winger with McDavid, I would guess Nuge gets quite a bit of run way here.

If Nuge is running full-cylinders, reaching his absolute peak ceiling, he is absolutely a serviceable 2C. How does he match up against first lines? Aaahh yeah not bad compared to a lot of 2Cs out there! But that’s why on the road, you might split up McDrai, and at home where you choose the match up, RNH can handle the pretty much all other team’s 2nd line center except maybe a guy like Sam Bennett could make life hard.

Essentially he has go 50% on the dot and his line has to produce while not giving up too much. If him Hyman and Podkolzin are his wingers, they pack enough of a punch physically I’m pretty confident in that line.

Ultimately though, my favourite spot for Nuge is 2LW with Draisaitl. They have insane chemistry, and if we do add a right shot 2nd line center, then Nuge could still potentially play 3C and Dickinson can rock 4C too.

[u/laryldavis → u/Machelscott]

In 15 seasons, he hit 50% on faceoffs once (2019/2020 season). Not a strength, but he’s generally close to 50% at the end of the year (48% last year). 

[u/Machelscott → u/laryldavis]

I would’ve also said he isn’t fit for it exactly but Babcock kind of said he likes I’m at center more than on 97’s wing, at least at the beginning of the year

[u/laryldavis → u/Machelscott]

Yeah I think Babcock was just going on vibes at that point of the preseason. We have seen RNH without 97 or 29 and he was getting stomped for years. 

Maybe coaching will have a huge impact, but I’m not confident it will have enough to make that line a positive. The team is playing great defensively but suffering on offence without L1. RNH, Hyman, and Savoie all struggle to produce offence without 97/29. 

[u/Machelscott → u/laryldavis]

Before Savoie was announced injured, Bob was suggesting he figured the top six would be
97-29-22
92-93-18

He also asked Leon at the end of the season if he thought Podkolzin could carry his own line, to which Drai gave basically a “maybe but over a whole season driving a line is a lot to ask”. That definitely seemed lofty to me a while back but if the time playing with McDrai can make him that much better, maybe it’s enough.

I’m thinking maybe they’re still going to try Podz with Nuge and Hyman and hope as a trio it could work. That’s a pretty solid three players, but it may just not work because you’re right 93 has been stomped in the past

[u/TheRealSlakySFSB → u/Machelscott]

Podkolzin - RNH - Hyman kinda cooked in last years playoffs even though they only played together for like one game iirc

But it looked pretty good

[u/Forward-Region1671]

In my dream world we get Ryan O'Reilly so they can split 2C responsibilities