28
u/Feral_668 3d ago
This is why I have never sided with the Institute.
10
u/Hans_the_Frisian 3d ago
I did it once because I wanted to destroy the brotherhood and between two factions I can't stand (Railroad/Institute) I take the one with indoor plumbing.
But yeah, wouldn't do it again. My mindset in other playthroughs was that you can always make more children and try again and you don't need to stick with a mistake just because you spent a lot of time and effort to make it.
9
u/AdmBurnside 2d ago
By the time I've found OG Shawn he usually has at least 2 siblings.
No great loss.
5
u/Hans_the_Frisian 2d ago
While he himsel is
maidenlessand doesn't even have children himself, even though he could just build himself a partner.And I don't count smol synth Shaun/Shawn/Sean (idk) as his child.
3
43
u/Fun_Firefighter_4292 3d ago
I would call this slander but lowkey youre right
23
u/No-Variety-7130 3d ago
I was sort of thinking along the this. I was like damn i did all that effort and helped a renegade scientist to have the possibility to get into the institute. Yet they could have found a convenient way to make the teleport from the get go.
9
u/Fun_Firefighter_4292 3d ago
I mean to be fair, the Institute does have a competency complex. They refuse to take in those who don't prove themselves. They chose Kellogg because hes such a good merc. They chase down and kidnap scientists who can join their teams. And the raging dad of the Institutes most valuable asset? Well he better be pretty damn capable.
7
u/No-Variety-7130 3d ago
Yeah, I sort of forgot you had to do that little side mission to “convince” a scientist that they were interested in.
13
u/Polenicus 2d ago
Should also add that he’s had the code to open your cryo pod for decades. Got it as soon as he became Director. Only did it now because he was diagnosed with terminal cancer, and was curious if you’d cone for him at all. Fully expected the Commonwealth to eat you, but then you pulled off the impossible.
9
u/Spleepis 2d ago
Yeahhhhh like cool, glad you are doing well Shaun, it’s just that this is all fucked and I am just gonna shoot you in the head and make a new kid though, sorry :/
13
u/ViciousCDXX 3d ago
Uh oh, get ready for all the buttmad Institute glazers
18
u/Surreal43 3d ago
Wait theres institute glazers now?
Well that’s not good.
3
u/Xilizhra The House Always Wins 3d ago
Slavery is bad, but advanced technology that isn't just weapons is good.
4
u/PiusTheCatRick 3d ago
Who even glazes them to begin with? They're not even a well-written evil faction, their motivation makes no goddamn sense.
6
u/Hans_the_Frisian 3d ago
Yes but they do have indoor plumbing and shelter that actually protects from the elements.
And don't forget the Synth gorillas or something.
5
u/Overdue-Karma 2d ago
They hang the toilet paper the wrong way.
They have to burn in nuclear hellfire as Atom would intend.
5
u/Hans_the_Frisian 2d ago
Great, I forgot about that and now I'm agitated. Thank you.
3
u/Overdue-Karma 2d ago
I never miss the opportunity to slander the Institute. /s
Personally, I would've given the Institute more of a 1960's look, to show they're advanced. Someone on the Nexus gave them a more colourful look and it looks nicer, in my opinion.
3
u/Hans_the_Frisian 2d ago
I never miss the opportunity to slander the Institute. /s
Completely understandable.
Most of the time I'm completely triggered by the guns and ammo in the game and of course the Wasteland "Architecture", that I forget sins like not mounting toilet paper like the patent intended.
2
u/Overdue-Karma 2d ago
I mean hey maybe if whoever designed the Institute guns was removed I'd be more favourable to them because my god those rifles suck. I get the vision for them but the scope is ridiculously big and they do such little damage, no wonder there's like a 100+ Institute weapon mods.
2
u/Hans_the_Frisian 2d ago
It's not only the institute weapons, apart from those directly copied from real weapons they all trigger my "tism" and even those that are copied annoy me.
Like why is every Hunting rifle left handed but not a single soul in the Commonwealth is a lefty. I could go on like this for what feels like hours and Everytime I install the game the first thing I do is install a replacer for basically everything.
2
u/Overdue-Karma 2d ago
Like why is every Hunting rifle left handed but not a single soul in the Commonwealth is a lefty. I could go on like this for what feels like hours and Everytime I install the game the first thing I do is install a replacer for basically everything.
Honestly, same. I usually grab 1980's type weaponry since those are canon now (the NCR are using RPD's in the TV show) but to be honest, I usually try to takeover the Commonwealth - I do like Subversion to takeover the Institute. No reason to blow it up.
I like nuclear explosions as much as the next delusional radiation cultist, but not that much. /s
It's not only the institute weapons, apart from those directly copied from real weapons they all trigger my "tism" and even those that are copied annoy me.
Yeah, I have a particular tic about the Nuka-World guns, you notice the silencers are ridiculously massive?
→ More replies (0)2
u/PiusTheCatRick 2d ago
The gorillas are the worst part, why make something like them and then... do nothing but make a zoo? Not even a fun one, it's just a normal zoo. They're too nonsensical to be satisfying amoral scientists and too boring to be fun mad scientists like the Big MT brains.
-4
u/Ezi0_shadowblade 2d ago
I will not deny that the Institute is not a moral good faction. That said, they are likely morally gray at best.
I side with them because after talking to enough people, and digging through terminals and other such research, there are plenty of high ranking scientists or disagree with using the gen 3 synths as basic slaves. With us in charge, we can sway that even further. Free the synths from the inside. (In lore, not in game options obviously.)
It is also completely possible, (not confirmed) that child shaun is a vastly improved and unique synth as close to a pre war human as possible with the capacity to age.
(If they can create the synths sterile, ageless, and immune to many of the things that humans are not, them 1000% are capable of making a synth with those same benefits but the capacity to grow like a normal human.)
My personal glazing comes from what the institute is capable of in the right hands, the good they can do etc. After all, it is a role playing game. We can choose whatever ending we wish.
That said, without the sole survivor, it is highly unlikely if not impossible for the brotherhood or railroad to feasably beat the Institute based on everything we know.
The railroads last hide out almost wiped them out completely.
The brotherhood fly their blimp to the commonwealth and then are stuck there permanently. (Talking to one of the mechanics tells us they don’t have to capacity or fuel to fly it back, it was meant to be a show of strength and unfortunately a one way ticket.)
The brotherhood also have no trained pilots for their vertibirds, (obvious on how often they crash and from in game dialogue)
The minutemen also die out if the sole survivor doesn’t save the Remnants and Preston Garvey. (I love Preston Garvey, but that’s partially because I am biased as my irl name is also Preston. I am white though, but still.)
9
u/ViciousCDXX 2d ago
Kidnap people to experiment on, replace them with synths in order to influence human society, many of which go nuts and kill people, does nothing to actively help people on the surface....morally gray.....
-5
u/Ezi0_shadowblade 2d ago
I clearly said morally gray “at best” and stated at the very beginning that they are not morally good by any metric.
5
u/Overdue-Karma 2d ago
The brotherhood fly their blimp to the commonwealth and then are stuck there permanently. (Talking to one of the mechanics tells us they don’t have to capacity or fuel to fly it back, it was meant to be a show of strength and unfortunately a one way ticket.)
They clearly find more coolant given the Prydwen has supplied chapters in 2296. Titus is from the Commonwealth and they explicitly say their orders come from the Commonwealth.
That said, they are likely morally gray at best.
They slaughtered people for 100 years and are responsible for every single super mutant in the Commonwealth (and thus responsible for the Battle of Diamond City). They're practically as bad as the Enclave, just lazier. They wiped out the CPG. At their best, they're just slightly better than the Legion - and thus still morally evil.
Synths also can age. Danse was in Rivet City for years, people would've realised if he didn't age or sleep on the Prydwen.
The BoS would likely beat the Institute over a long term, they can get anti-teleporters. The Institute has no counter to them.
My personal glazing comes from what the institute is capable of in the right hands, the good they can do etc. After all, it is a role playing game. We can choose whatever ending we wish.
No, not always. A pro-Legion courier cannot be a good person for example, in the same way a pro-Institute sole survivor is someone that views Synths as slaves and the surface as experiments.
The brotherhood also have no trained pilots for their vertibirds, (obvious on how often they crash and from in game dialogue)
No, this is a gameplay bug, not actual lore. Their pilots spawn at level 1 permanently, thus they only have 15 HP.
-1
u/Ezi0_shadowblade 2d ago
Didn’t know that extra coolant could be found. I don’t think I know who titus is, so I will have to take your word on it then do some background research to confirm.
The brotherhood of steel slaughter entire encampments of sentient non feral ghouls along with anything seen as an inhuman abomination. Friendly synths such as paladin danse etc.
The super mutant fev program was used as a experimental program in an attempt to make stable versions of gen 3 synths which as of fallout 3, have only been around for about a decade, so definitely evil to let them loose, with the destruction that definitively followed. I will give you that point.
The anti teleporters are a non issue when they teleport us to outside the range of them and have us go in to destroy them. Stronger, faster, and more agile coursers can do the exact same thing with the same gen 2 synths such grenades debatably far more efficiently. (Not taking player capacity to instantly sway any fight in their favor)
Humans irl can look the same for a decade with little change, good genes, healthy eating, active lifestyle etc, it would not be unusual for the same to happen in this universe. Synths in game also do indeed sleep, they just don’t technically need to sleep, which is very different, and the synths are programmed to be as human like as possible, so giving them a subroutine to sleep isn’t unusual as well.
I don’t know much about Fallout New Vegas, so I can’t give a good rebuttal to the Pro Legion bit, but saying a pro institute player can’t think slavery is bad and is perfectly okay with it just by siding with them when npcs in the same organization (as I stated) don’t agree with how other scientists treat them and are teying to change that, with a pro freedom player to lead the institute can change how the faction goes for the future.
Organizations are just large groups of people, people change, and/or can be replaced with those of different views and take them down different paths.
I didn’t know about the vertibird level one glitch. But I also know in game lore and dialogue confirms that there isn’t actual training books to train the pilots or people with long experience. (One of the reasons Proctor Quinlen sends us out to obtain technical documents)
4
u/Overdue-Karma 2d ago
The brotherhood of steel slaughter entire encampments of sentient non feral ghouls along with anything seen as an inhuman abomination. Friendly synths such as paladin danse etc.
Danse is because they view him as a risk due to him being a Paladin. And yes, by 2296 they're executing non-ferals, but they never did so in FO4.
The super mutant fev program was used as a experimental program in an attempt to make stable versions of gen 3 synths which as of fallout 3, have only been around for about a decade, so definitely evil to let them loose, with the destruction that definitively followed. I will give you that point.
No, they used it since the 2100s. They've been kidnapping people for ages. How do you think the Super Mutants got there? They aren't from Vault 87. The Institute has been kidnapping people since they made the teleporter over 100 years ago.
The anti teleporters are a non issue when they teleport us to outside the range of them and have us go in to destroy them. Stronger, faster, and more agile coursers can do the exact same thing with the same gen 2 synths such grenades debatably far more efficiently. (Not taking player capacity to instantly sway any fight in their favor)
Yes, keyword us, the player. Not the Synths themselves who couldn't do so or else they wouldn't require you.
I don’t know much about Fallout New Vegas, so I can’t give a good rebuttal to the Pro Legion bit, but saying a pro institute player can’t think slavery is bad and is perfectly okay with it just by siding with them when npcs in the same organization (as I stated) don’t agree with how other scientists treat them and are teying to change that, with a pro freedom player to lead the institute can change how the faction goes for the future.
If you were anti-slavery, you wouldn't have murdered the Railroad in cold blood. There is no option to dismiss synth slavery as Director, meaning it isn't possible. Only one person in the Institute doesn't view Synths as slaves (or at best, one family) - the Binets. Nobody else.
Organizations are just large groups of people, people change, and/or can be replaced with those of different views and take them down different paths.
Not overnight. Do you think the Enclave or Legion would take a ghoul or woman in charge and suddenly refuse to be xenophobic or misogynistic?
I didn’t know about the vertibird level one glitch. But I also know in game lore and dialogue confirms that there isn’t actual training books to train the pilots or people with long experience. (One of the reasons Proctor Quinlen sends us out to obtain technical documents)
They still don't randomly blow up, that's due to the pilot glitch and the fact they're re-using the Dragon AI from Skyrim.
3
u/Exile688 1d ago
I appreciate someone made a mod to give Shawn a life support power armor for the post game but I'd rather just shoot him.
3
u/HalfEatenHotPocket 1d ago
There’s that. He calls your wife and his mother collateral damage. That cemented me using the brotherhood to burn the institute to the ground
2
u/iambertan 1d ago
It's understandable that he's insensitive on that part. He lived 60 years without ever knowing her so he never knew her value and what she meant to his father.
1
u/HalfEatenHotPocket 20h ago
That’s a fair point but still I’d imagine most people would realize that’s probably not the smartest thing one should say to their father
1
u/iambertan 19h ago
Father has one of the lowest emotional intelligence and diplomacy skills in the entire franchise. He could've developed the Institute just the same without turning an entire region against them. He just doesn't know the impact of his actions because he didn't face any consequences before.
7
u/Xonthelon 3d ago
Yes, he is a heartless bastard. But you can hardly blame him for not being emotionally attached to his parents. They are at the level of being a sperm donor and a surrogate mother as far as he is concerned.
6
u/Spleepis 2d ago
Yeah he may be the son of the SS but he isn’t really their child. He lived his whole life without them
6
3
u/Overdue-Karma 1d ago
I can blame him for torturing people into super mutants for no reason at least.
3
u/Proud_Jello9093 1d ago
yeah sure if the children of sperm donors were given the opportunity to strand their parents in the middle of amazon with a broken leg to "see what happens"
every event the sole survivor goes through after shaun is taken happens solely because shaun wanted to see what they'd do if they were woken up
56
u/RMP321 3d ago
Yeah Father is an evil douche. It’s mostly a question of if you’d even be able to love your son at that point.