r/Flamenco • u/Sea_Beginning2852 • 10d ago
Whats the difference between old and new flamenco?
Hi. I came from playing bossa nova and fingerstyle pieces, but Ive been listening to flamenco here and there and have been learning some techniques for about two years now. But I havent dived deep into the entire genre. Im starting to k ow the basics behind how its all structured and played and the culture behind it, etc.
I havent been listening to too many flamenco artists until recently. What are some distinct differences between old and new? I thought for a while Vicente and Paco de Lucía were older artists (I know this artists goes back hundreds of year). But apparently theyre more new.
In high school I played the cello for 4 years. However, since always Ive generally had a disdain for classical music. I just dont like it. I favor Vicente over Paco and I do love a few pieces from Vicente. But I just much prefer Yerai Cortez. Theres just so much energy and it just flows for me. I want to learn more and find a few more artists to listen to and see what I like and dont like. Ive come across moraíto and ofc gypsy kings. What else can I try.
Ive heard Yerai plays more simple with his music? If I want to learn some of his pieces, are they more "simple" to learn?
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u/princeofponies 10d ago
There are other members who will have a much stronger understanding of this topic - but in essence, Paco revolutionised Flamenco in terms of harmony, rhythmic complexity and virtuosity.
Someone like Diego Del Gastor is classic old school flamenco. Still a wonderful, skilled player, but a much more restricted palette
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwzVrrJSSb8
Paco pushed it further
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T06qedkgfbA
And further
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u/rddman 7d ago
I thought for a while Vicente and Paco de Lucía were older artists (I know this artists goes back hundreds of year). But apparently theyre more new.
Which one calls "new" and which "old" depends very much on context. Flamenco constantly evolves and there are clear and distinct differences in terms of melodies, harmony and rhythm between early 20th century, 1950's/'60s, '70s/'80s, 1990's/early 2000, and the current era. Compared to contemporary artists Paco de Lucia is kinda old, but Paco in turn is much newer than anything that came before him.
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u/GTR-Jorge 4d ago
How much Flamenco has evolved depends a lot on the Palo and the Artist. Old School Flamenco is more raw and "earthy". Not much syncopation, no fancy chords, sometimes even a lot faster tempo.
Bulerías (maybe the most representative Flamenco Palo) is a great example. Old Bulerías were really fast, so a lot of the old Falsetas really stuck to main pulse without lots of syncopation. As they evolved, artists started to play them slower ("pastueño"), hence, more "space" and easiness to play more syncopated lines and to integrate more modern techniques, such as Alzapúa. Add to that the influence of foreign music in terms of rhythm and harmony and you have modern Falmenco.
Old Bulerías: Carmen Amaya ; Yerai Cortés (he has a very distinct "oldschool" playstyle)
Modern: Paco de Lucía ; Moraíto Chico
Best Flamenco Albums I've listened to:
Paco de Lucía: Siroco, Luzia & Cositas Buenas
Manolo Sanlúcar: Tauromagia
Vicente amigo: Ciudad de las ideas, Memoria de los Sentidos
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u/Carl_Schmitt 10d ago
Harmonically, old flamenco typically only used major, minor, and seventh chords. Soloing was largely confined to the phrygian mode. The guitarist's role was largely to back up singers, whose performances were prized for very intense emotions in rather strict and repetitive forms.
New flamenco players, namely Paco de Lucia, introduced "jazz" chords like major sevenths, ninths, elevenths, etc. and soloing scales like superlocrian. There were also big changes in right hand technique and syncopation in phrasing. While there were many great guitar virtuoso soloists before new flamenco, the music was much simpler and more formal.