r/Flyers • u/upcan845 • 1d ago
All hands on wreck: Flyers’ winless start is a team-wide disaster
https://onpattison.com/sports/all-hands-on-wreck-flyers-winless-start-is-a-team-wide-disaster-nhl/131
u/upcan845 1d ago
Changing the coach is financially undesirable for the organization, optically bad for the leadership of the organization who invested so much on him just 18 months ago, and also a little unfair. While Rick Tocchet deserves his share of criticism for what’s happening, he is also trying to navigate this with a team the organization knew was flawed coming into the season, and one that’s been completely undermanned for the back half of this horrific start. He can only do so much with the hand he’s been dealt.
You can fire management, but that also wouldn’t be prudent, since ownership has been on board and in lockstep with this rebuild process from Jump Street. Caving to external pressure would do more long-term harm to the organization, as it would signal to other executives that ownership would go back on its word and commitment.
There’s only one place to look right now for salvation – and that’s from within.
Doing nothing during a historic 9 game losing streak because you fear the "optics" and "signal" it would give sounds a whole lot like a loser culture.
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u/Roll-Me-Through Tippet 1 turbo charge 1d ago
"He can only do so much with the hand he's been dealt" ... Does Ant care to look at some of the ways Toc has played his hand? Not in this article.
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u/Cloakington 1d ago
Yeah I wouldnt agree with the article but I'd understand it if were just having a losing start to the season. There's leagues between being 3-5-1 and having the worst start to the season in franchise history and the coach playing your two big pieces of the future 13 minutes a night might have something to do with that
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u/CrunchyKorm 1d ago
Totally agree.
They had a brutal schedule up until the Seattle game, and they have legit players out with injuries. Those are legit reasons to start poorly!
But scoring 11 goals in 9 games? Or on pace for the lowest shots on goal in the modern era? That's a huge gap that goes beyond "well what can you expect?"
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u/Fx08 1d ago
Ant is a mouthpiece for the org.
I feel like the situation the org is in today is the lead up from almost everything people complained about up to three years ago when they resigned TK. You don’t get the benefit of the doubt on a start like this when you tell everyone that a complete tear down is out of the question because you want to compete while rebuilding.
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u/amilbarge00 1d ago
Incorrect. Their first priority was to fix the culture and now everything is starting to fall in place. Tocchet will be bringing in Quinn Hughes soon and McDavid flew on our plane once. Things are looking up. Bright future.
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u/upcan845 1d ago
It is amazing to think that "culture" was supposed to be this team's distinguishing feature, and now we are talking about the players being complacent with a fluke playoff appearance, leaks of throwing players under the bus, and the GM being complacent with a 9 game losing streak.
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u/amilbarge00 1d ago
So many of our fans fell for the culture nonsense, sadly. Bring in elite talent and the culture will build itself....unless you also bring in dipshit coaches.
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u/BobDrCrO80Five4 1d ago
Not all the fans. But mostly the season ticket holders. And that was the target audience.
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u/Incepticons 1d ago
"Unfair" LMAO holy bootlicking, embarrassing from this author.
Even if they were winning or like a .500 team right now, Tocchet should still be fired for playing 4th liners more than our young talents in Michkov and Martone, especially after how he talked about Michkov last year to the press. Or still randomly taking Michkov off powerplay 1 and OT ice time.
What is our priority? Are we not in a rebuild and want to develop our players, or are we competing for the cup this year seriously? Is Tocchet aligned to what Danny said his goals are for this team. Is the culture what he wants?
Almost none of Tocchets obvious errors and mismanagement here has to do with roster construction.
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u/Diamondback424 1d ago
I blame all of this squarely on the coach. Danny Briere didn't sign Noel Aciari to play 15 minutes a game, especially during clutch moments of the game. He didn't bring up Michael Bunting to replace your potential generational talent in the PP1.
This feels like some weird PR damage control.
This is a team full of young talented players, they need their coach to BE a coach. That's what the fuck he's there for.
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u/upcan845 1d ago
But Briere did hire the coach. And Briere is standing by the coach.
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u/Diamondback424 1d ago
Yeah it was a really terrible hire, so he definitely deserves his share of the blame. I think most likely thing to happen is he lets Tocchet coach for the season and hopes for a top 5 draft pick and hires a new coach for the 27-28 season.
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u/karma6063 1d ago
yeah i can think of something worse than making necessary moves that's worse for "optics" and we're already witnessing it.
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u/LaGoeba Backcheck, Forecheck, Paycheck 1d ago
The accountability and culture we’ve all been building for.
If they really do belive that Toc is the guy to turn this ship around, all I’m wondering is how?
We know Toc’s system, it is what it is. He’s stubborn, and this is what we signed him for. He’s not supposed to change his game, not that I ever think he would be capable of doing it even if he tried.
So what are they waiting for? That the players suddenly scores more on the same amount of shots? That we’re suddenly fast enough and heavy enough to be a forechecking team?
That Woll and Vladar is going to be even better and have to take even more responsibility for keeping us alive in the games?
Are we suddenly going to actually try to play hockey in the third period, no matter the score?
Everything is just a complete mismatch at every level now, and DB’s comments about them wanting to score more, win more in regulations, developing the young core, in the summer seems like just a hollow point of accountability right now.
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u/Unlucky_Fee5712 FireTacoIntoTheSun 1d ago
UNFAIR??? UNFAIR???????? Has anyone seen a game? He's playing the worst players on the team more than his best players?!!!
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u/TwoForHawat 1d ago
> he is also trying to navigate this
Could’ve fooled me. Dude doesn’t look like he’s trying anything whatsoever. Except maybe reshuffling the lines every night and then being shocked when no one has chemistry.
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u/scrnlookinsob 1d ago
Welcome to the fucking world where those in power would rather let something completely burn to the ground than admit that they failed at something and it's time to try something new.
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u/Alternative_War_1555 1d ago
This is what happen when your team is owned by a corporation and not a person. Its about optics. The Eagles are a great example. Lurie fired the Eagle's Superbowl winning coach and traded their QB that they had invested millions in because Lurie and Roseman didn't care about optics or loyalty, it was about winning. Comcast cares about winning, but they care more about loyalty and reputation. It about being a 'Great Place to Work'.
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u/BobDrCrO80Five4 1d ago
Comcast doesn’t care about winning. This crap has been going on for 30 years, and the approach never changes. ‘We’re THE FLYERS, we don’t tank!’
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u/PetalumaPegleg 1d ago
I don't care about the losing streak half as much as I care about him not playing talented young players, even when playing well, and embedding a harampuck style as the standard style.
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u/dadnauseum WOLL-A-THON 1d ago
this “it’s not just the coach” bullshit would be fine if he was doing everything he could to make it happen. instead, he puts the 4th line out (which was abysmal all game) with 5 mins to go in a losing game and lets them seal the deal. it’s just terrible strategic decision making on the bench night after night.
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u/throwaway64590865498 1d ago
Nothing says financially desirable like keeping a trainwreck due to a contract.
Fuck this, Bron's here. Sink and die until you figure out the right priorities, Flyers.
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u/MeasurementHot7619 1d ago
This was written by Jonesy, Briere, and Tocchet in hopes that some fans would believe it.
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u/Beha2121 1d ago
You can say it ain’t the coach all you want but Marty and Meech should get top line minutes so they can develop into superstars. I don’t care if we lose as long as there’s a purpose to it. Tocc isn’t a coach he’s a parasite.
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u/PhilsFanDrew 1d ago
It was a mistake to hire Tocchet in the first place and last year they overperformed largely because Vladar overperformed relative to his career and they were able to win a lot of lower scoring games after the all star break to squeak into the playoffs. An aging vet heavy Pens team that also overachieved in a rivalry first round gave the team enough to win that series but they weren't beating any other team in the East in a 7 game series.
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u/SadYotesFan York 🐈 Count: 3 1d ago
Something forgotten is that we were on the verge of choking the series
If not for a Cam York blueline prayer and Vladar keeping us in it, we go back to Pittsburgh for G7 and lose
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u/BringOnYourStorm 1d ago
I disagree to a minor extent. I'm not sure your comment takes into account that our backup goalie was the worst in the NHL. When Vladar got hurt in January, Ersson took over with Kolosov backing him up and they dropped games by embarrassing margins. Prior to that, Ersson in net was a scheduled loss or a trip to OT for a loser point at best (unless Zegras stole a SOW).
If we had the goaltending we have this year, the Flyers wouldn't have squeaked into the playoffs only on the back of an overperforming goalie, they'd have been comfortably above the playoff line.
Personally, I think that makes the collapse this season far more shocking. In critical ways the team has improved on paper, but has historically collapsed on the ice. It's really got to be something in the locker room, with Tocchet, or both. My money's on Tocchet though, the evidence is fairly clear his system has failed: PP is still league-worst, Martone and Michkov are being benched in favor of Acciari and Bunting, horrific shot differentials, etc..
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u/BillNyeTheHockeyGuy 1d ago
This has Toch’s fingerprints all over it. It’s always “the cards he’s dealt,” but there probably isn’t a coach in the league with more say over lineups and personnel decisions than Toch.
This is the guy who forced VAN’s hand to trade Podkolzin and was convinced he could turn Sprong into a 40-goal-scoring Selke nominee.
He’s an idiot lol.
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u/Thursdeh 1d ago
8 more and we get the all-time losing streak in general. 21 more for the longest winless streak! No other coach can get us these records like Tocchet can!
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u/NeatCancel1234 1d ago
So are we all just hitting F5 every few minutes only to come away disappointed? Gonna be a long day.
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u/NotSharpButNotDull 1d ago
Replace every single fucking scout top to bottom because this team does not know how to draft talented players
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u/Bubbly_Bicycle_6370 1d ago
They should sell this article in the desert cause it's doing a lot of water carrying for He Who Shall Not Be Criticized.
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u/Evrytimeweslay Chief JJ enthusiast 1d ago
Let’s see how they like the optics of an empty building every night
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u/Limp_Bar6899 1d ago
Look on the bright side tho, yeah we’re in a slump, but we have one of the best coaches in the league. There’s no one better to take this team and turn it around
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u/theomegachild24 1d ago
Ownership is okay with this circus long as there’s butts in seats which there are
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u/CrunchyKorm 1d ago
I know people pull the whole "ownership" doesn't care card but ownership doesn't want the team to be the worst Flyers team ever. And this is all an easy omen for how bad ticket sales will be for the rest of the year.
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u/MyDadsAccnt 1d ago
While Rick Tocchet deserves his share of criticism for what’s happening...
All of it. He deserves all of it. End of article.
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u/ComfortableCoyote480 1d ago
Someone needs to crush someone with an open ice hit or get into a fight. Anything to fire up the engine.
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u/countrymac77 1d ago
This team is absolutely flawed however, they don’t play with hard, there is zero fight in them, they cannot sustain any offensive zone time and are constantly chasing the game every single game. It’s a disaster and heads need to roll.
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u/chubsmagooo 1d ago
It's not a disaster at all. It's exactly what the team needs. Now they can get out of purgatory
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u/OLPopsAdelphia 1d ago
I understand that teams have droughts, but to let your tiny guys be the enforcers and antagonizers is not ok.
Where are the body-pushing enforcers that we desperately need on the ice that protect players like Zegras and Michkov?
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u/Blev088 It was Andrae all along 1d ago
You can fuck right off with that. That doesn't explain the miserable start to the season when everyone is healthy nor is that even a remotely valid excuse considering this is almost the exact same team that won a playoff round. The team does not look ready to play, does not look like they're invested in playing, and there has been zero fire from just about anyone while on the ice, Tocchet included.