If someone says « avant le 16 octobre » does that mean before today or until midnight today?

[u/Sea_Policy5]

I’ve seen several applications list their deadline this way. If there’s no hour listed, and for example they put only « à soumettre avant le vendredi 16 octobre » without any other details, is it safe to assume that you can send it until midnight today? Or is it before today starts, e.g. midnight yesterday?

[u/dthchau]

Avant le 16 octobre = before the 16th, i.e. by 11:59pm the day before

D’ici le 16 octobre = by the 16th, including the 16th

[u/Mnementh85]

if there is no hour specified, yes the limit is midnight.

then to know if the limite date is included:

avant/before : the limite date is not included.
jusqu'au/until: the limite date is included

[u/Dry_Appointment2486]

Theoretically, if you are not given any hour for your deadline, saying "avant le 16 octobre" means October 15th at 23h 59 min 59 sec is the limit.

If you send it today the 16th, it's technically too late, but there's a chance you can still apply if the person reviewing the applications starts working on it later during the day.

[u/almost_ready_to_ → u/Dry_Appointment2486]

Yea. Always send late, as soon as possible just in case. It's still late but timezones exis, grace periods are possible, and luck is a thing you don't know you have until you do.

[u/Badcloud76]

Yes XD.

There is no wrong answer, I tend to see "jeudi 23h59" as the last limite but it could be vendredi...

When there isn't enough info I go by the worst case scenario. But here since it's Friday I think it's Friday during work hours last limit. But it can really be both.

[u/injektileur → u/Badcloud76]

Exactly. I don't think it's a French problem only. I wouldn't bet on it, but if a deadline is on a Friday I'd assume it's ok until Friday business hours. I prefer when they specificy "jusqu'au 16 octobre" "dernier délai 16 octobre" etc.

[u/lurytn]

If I was given this deadline I’d play it safe and do it by 11:59 on the 15th.

To include the 16th they’d make it clearer by using “d’ici le vendredi 16 octobre” or “au plus tard le vendredi 16 octobre”

[u/ManueO]

Avant le 16 octobre means before the 16th, not until EOD on the 16th.

[u/Ribbgeddyt]

To be safe, I would assume the 16th is not included and answer/submit on the 15th.

But, if someone says « avant le 16 octobre » imo they should expect people to be confused (because it’s unclear), and they should clearly accept things on the 16th. If they want something before the 16th then they should be more precise.

[u/befree46 → u/Ribbgeddyt]

avant le 16, c'est avant le 16, donc le 15 max

sinon on dit "avant le 16 au soir" par exemple

pour moi c'est on ne peut plus clair

[u/Ribbgeddyt → u/befree46]

Et pour moi pas.
Et au vu des réponses ici, c’est en effet pas d’une clarté limpide.

[u/CT046]

Until the end of business hours on Oct 15, or 11:59pm on Oct 15th, depending on the case.

[u/v_a_n_d_e_l_a_y]

The original post content no longer exists here. The author used Redact to remove it, exercising their right to control their data & privacy.

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[u/SweetBxl]

I see this phrasing constantly here in Belgium. Even though it literally means "before the 16th of October", in practice it means "on or before the 16th of October".

[u/Accomplished-Slide52]

I would have use : "Au plus tard le vendredi 16" to include Friday.

[u/beoug]

I disagree with the other responses.
Yes, technically, if you consider the French language as a kind of programming language, it’s supposed to mean: up to the 15th at midnight.
However, it’s not what is usually meant by this. It means: the 16th is the last day you can apply. Otherwise, the person who wrote this would have been more careful, more precise and unambiguous.

[u/Sea_Policy5 → u/beoug]

Wait wdym by programming language ?

[u/beoug → u/Sea_Policy5]

That everyday speech does not obey to the same rules as mathematics do.

[u/judorange123]

To me it means until 16 octobre 23:59.