r/Games • u/SharkyIzrod • 4d ago

Industry News Nvidia reportedly ends GeForce RTX 5090 graphics card production

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/nvidia-reportedly-ends-geforce-rtx-5090-graphics-card-production
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433

u/CaptainGoldRum 4d ago

Gonna build me my dream gaming pc when cyberpunk project Orion releases I wonder how things will be then

383

u/JonesDahl 4d ago

the way things are going, youd be lucky if we even got the 70xx generation until then. gpu development seems to have slowed and shifted focus to cheap gains through AI that makes the game look like total ass

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u/69ANIME69 4d ago

The way things are going, in a few years from now we'll be streaming all our games from services with outrageous subscription fees.

17

u/8-Brit 4d ago

That won't happen until internet service improves globally. It's why it keeps failing.

14

u/Academic-Factor-4551 4d ago

Dozens of comments in here assuming streaming boxes are inevitable but failing to realize this

12

u/8-Brit 4d ago

Even my "normie" brother who just plays sports and racing games noticed input lag and artefact when I tried out Geforce Now on a whim so he could try a racing game without waiting for a download.

And that was with brand spanking new full fibre. Which a significant number of people still don't even have so it would be even worse for them. At this point internet speed is throttled by this little thing called the laws of physics and isn't likely getting better without a new technology altogether.

I'm sure Nvidia etc are foaming at the mouth to try and make us subscribe to virtual PCs instead but it is quite simply not happening within a decade at minimum.

2

u/Academic-Factor-4551 4d ago

100% agreed, this isn’t even close to the whole 30 fps vs 60 fps thing for casual gamers.

Just like you said, the laws of physics severely limit its feasibility to the masses.

Anybody in a slightly rural area or awkward suburban placement or just at a reasonable distance from server infrastructure is going to have a miserable experience. It would take a complete overhaul of existing network infrastructure, just for gamers lol

2

u/8-Brit 4d ago

Our only hope is streamed VR porn. Porn is what drove us to VHS and DVDs, it's what drove the internet and (I believe) smart devices getting bigger, better screens.

I am only partially joking but it does seem to be what drives tech and data delivery the most at times.

6

u/dvlsg 4d ago

Can't beat the speed of light, and there are a lot of games people are unwilling to accept the increased input lag on.

3

u/8-Brit 4d ago

Even outside high speed games like Fighting Games and MOBAs and shooters, my brother got frustrated at just a two or so second delay on steering in a racing game. It's that tangible even if you're not gaming on the edge.

Regular people will absolutely notice a severe drop in control quality or visual quality. Imagine buying a 4k TV and then your stream is a blurry mess that smears when too much happens at once.

1

u/Sikkly290 4d ago

More than anything people notice inconsistency. Hiccups in an internet connection are far more annoying than slightly higher latency for the majority of people. We are quite far into this whole internet thing and keeping a consistent connection is still basically impossible even if its just down the street.

Technology is so far off trying to shove the market towards black boxes would be more liable to kill it than anything else. While I'm sure a few of the dumb execs think its feasible, I don't think most are actively striving towards it. Most just don't give a fuck about gaming when they are getting tens/hundreds of billions of dollars thrown at them to dump into AI.

1

u/8-Brit 4d ago

As a key example my brother gave up when the stream seized up for a second just as he neared a corner at full speed, and when it unfroze he'd already crashed into the barrier.

He was done within half an hour lmao. And that was with full fibre and all.

1

u/ShinyHappyREM 4d ago

just a two or so second delay

That's massive.

For me, a game with 100ms lag feels awful while 50ms is fine.

1

u/dvlsg 4d ago

I think it's still going to vary from game to game. 50ms on something like counter strike would really mess with me, for example.

1

u/ShinyHappyREM 4d ago

Yeah, FPS needs more but for e.g. Witcher 3 I'm just happy with 50.

1

u/8-Brit 4d ago

Oh yeah no it was real bad, I can't imagine playing anything like that. But it was so bad even casual gamers pick up on it because they notice pushing a direction and there being a very tangible moment before the input happens.

2

u/Programmdude 4d ago

It's not just internet service, it's also simply the speed of light. I don't even play MMO's anymore that are in US servers because the ~250-300ms latency is painful, and that's not even input latency, that's just the responsiveness between using an ability and getting feedback.

But even worse than that, I can barely do home game streaming without it turning into a mess. Maybe if both were on ethernet it would be okay, but with one on ethernet and the other on wifi it still frequently changes the bitrate noticeably and has noticeable input latency. This is with RTS/RPG's, not even twitchy games.

For me to even consider it a contender, it would need:

  • <50ms latency. Which means the datacentre has to be hosted somewhat locally.
  • Actually using all of the 1gbit internet I have so the picture quality is good enough that I don't notice the compression.
  • Let me play the games I want, with the mods I want. No "have these 10 games, no mods allowed" type thing.
  • And it needs to be cheap enough that I don't simply buy a decent GPU anyway.

Back in the olden days, I could cope with all that. "Of course 300ms ping is fine, I'm just glad we're not on dial up anymore". "60FPS? Only if I lower my resolution to 640x480". But things have improved significantly since then. After watching tv shows/movies in 1080p/4k, there's no way I'm going back to 480/720p. So why would I want a similar quality decrease for the games I play?

121

u/JonesDahl 4d ago

if that literally will be the case, i will stop gaming

46

u/Zaptruder 4d ago

Existing GPUs and games will still exist... and a raft of smaller developers happy to continue serving the old model.

I don't think gaming will be going the way of the cloud, as much as tech execs would love that.

26

u/Fenixius 4d ago

They only last a decade or two, though, so if home gaming GPU production is completely subsumed into AI hardware production, it'll only be around 15-20 years that people who buy cards today can keep them going... 

16

u/Zaptruder 4d ago

I think that assumes that AI hardware build out continues at the current rate and that production capacity doesn't catch up to fulfill demand and that alternatives don't also attempt to step in to fill a still reasonably lucrative void.

1

u/Fenixius 4d ago

I do assume all of that.

Unless there's another software breakthrough on the level of the transformer, I don't see why the hardware buildout would slow. Compute demand will be infinite, so that users (i.e.: militaries and corporations) can access bigger context windows, process more files faster, and store more data forever. It will never end, and suppliers will not provide enough supply to even out pricing - why would they ever? That doesn't guarantee a return for their rentseeking investors.

And "reasonably lucrative" means "uncompetitive" in a highly-capitalised world like ours; there's so much money flying around now that "reasonably lucrative" means "not investing in AI". That part might change, if the finance bubble bursts, but I wouldn't bet on it.

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u/Zaptruder 4d ago

Well... typically the way it works is that many potential producers spy a burgeoning market, they rush to catch some of the high margins, but getting up to speed takes time while demand fluctuates heavily... by the time they enter the market, the demand may have changed for the worse creating an oversupply situation, and thus driving back down prices.

The fault in your assumption is that demand is infinite... the difference between massive and infinite is... infinite.

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u/Fenixius 4d ago

I wish you were right. Unfortunately, demand can be functionally infinite if supply is carefully managed to always be a bit less than demand, and if entry costs and timelines for competitors are extremely high. Otherwise, we'd see competition for end-user RAM and GPUs. We're half a decade into the supply shortages for these products, but we don't. 

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u/Shuino7 4d ago

Not how things work. You'll end up with a small percentage keeping existing hardware, but the other 95% will move on.

No one will be releasing games on PC when it doesn't exist in the future. The current PC we have won't exist.

Everyone will have Streaming machines. (Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo)

8

u/TuzkiPlus 4d ago

If no one's got me, I know my PSX and Crash Bandicoot got me. Don't die on me lil buddy...

4

u/Shuino7 4d ago

I have some 500+ physical games. I'm set as well 😆.

6

u/Academic-Factor-4551 4d ago

No, people won’t. These things aren’t feasible to consumers without severe physical limitations.

4

u/darkkite 4d ago

streaming won't work. the economics doesn't scale.

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u/Academic-Factor-4551 4d ago

The physics don’t work either. Even casual NBA 2k / CoD gamers will notice how shitty streaming video games is. The laws of physics currently prohibit it from being a feasible service or product. It would take a complete overhaul of our existing network infrastructure, or a new technology. Just to stream video games lmao

2

u/Panicgreenonioncake 4d ago

the future sure is bleak

3

u/Cyrotek 4d ago

Or gaming as a hobby as we know it will simply die and everything is just mobile slop.

44

u/patentedenemy 4d ago

This. I don't care for it enough to stick around if that's the only way to play.

67

u/Loeffellux 4d ago

*AAA gaming

I cannot imagine that indie gaming will ever require a state-of-the-art GPU

26

u/all-the-right-moves 4d ago

They shouldn't, but there are plenty of UE5-based indies with poor optimisation that require a way stronger system than they should

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u/Bob_The_Skull 4d ago

That's fine, they just will either barely break even, or fail to get the sales they need and dissolve.

I hate to say it, but if you are an indie in 2026 and you aren't trying to make your game as playable in as many devices as possible, what are you doing?

1

u/exdystopia 3d ago

The humble Escape From Tarkov:

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u/sleepingonmoon 4d ago

Technology powers gameplay, not to mention indie games tend to be less optimised since they can't afford it.

23

u/duckwantbread 4d ago

There are very few indie games that my 1660ti laptop can't run, if you only care about indies then you generally don't need a high end graphics card outside a couple of counterexamples.

20

u/Lawnmover_Man 4d ago

Technology powers gameplay

That statement stopped being true in roughly 2005-2010. If you disagree, feel free to state your three favorite gameplay mechanics that are only possible with newer hardware.

4

u/velrak 4d ago

The switch from HDD's to SSD's definitely made fast-traversal open world much more feasible. Thats not a gpu feature tho...

3

u/Samurai_Meisters 4d ago

You are absolutely correct.

Remember when physics used to be part of gameplay? Nowadays it's only used for background clutter.

Notable exception being Zelda: Breath of the Wild, but that's nearly 10 years old and runs on Switch hardware.

8

u/Loeffellux 4d ago

Of course there are games that technically qualify as indie while also being moderately/surprisingly demanding with 3D graphics. But there will also always be standard 2D indie games that can run on literally anything.

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u/Shuino7 4d ago

It doesn't matter if they run on everything when we won't even get the option to run them locally at some point.

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u/Nalivai 4d ago

This statement is amazingly the exact opposite of truth somehow.

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u/DrQuint 4d ago

Technology powers gameplay

And yet the stealth genre still barely evilved too far away from the fundamentals it built when that same Technology bred gameplay out of limitations.

Your statement is just wrong, that's a simpler explanation.

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u/I_Am_A_Pumpkin 4d ago

indie games might not have the budget to optimise like an AAA studio could, but (aside from ue5 slop games) they also tend to not use expensive rendering techniques in the first place.

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u/NinjaLion 4d ago

yup. ive spent 25 years on this hobby, if it ends today because of this shit i will be sad but i will find a new one rather than watch it devolve into a pay-piggy subscription bananza. 25 years is a good run.

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u/imported 4d ago edited 4d ago

i doubt i would stop gaming, i just will not be playing new games. my backlog is huge and i have so many favs that need a replay.

1

u/Kraekus 4d ago

I'll definitely retire from PC gaming if it happens. I have other hobbies that are way less bullshitty to engage in.

1

u/auron_py 4d ago

There is always the good indie games, like REALLY good indie games, they're probably not going anywhere?

1

u/JonesDahl 4d ago

i think the real problem is that the cost of hardware would be so artificially high that you would be locked into renting compute power

and that opens so many cans of worms that it makes me nauseous

1

u/DrQuint 4d ago

I will jailbreak whatever device still has consumer compute and use that to play JRPGs till I die.

1

u/Ghede 4d ago

They can't take retro and indie games away from us.

1

u/JonesDahl 4d ago

no, but they can stop making hardware

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u/Goronmon 4d ago

The way things are going, in a few years from now we'll be streaming all our games from services with outrageous subscription fees.

This wouldn't make sense. The "streaming" hardware is going to have the exact same issue that the 5090 is running into. It's more profitable to direct resources towards AI hardware.

It wouldn't make sense to move from less profitable consumer gaming hardware to less profitable game streaming hardware.

0

u/Nalivai 4d ago

After the bubble pops, all the hardware that is collecting dust waiting for data centers right now wouldn't be useful for much of anything, but presumably can be repurposed to run stuff for streaming games.

14

u/Vlisa 4d ago

A small reminder that this line of thinking is what led people to wait until GPU prices would definitely drop and look where we are now. AI valuations can eventually undergo a massive drawdown and retail compute can still be expensive years to come, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

2

u/Nalivai 4d ago

Yeah, but that doesn't matter. I'm not buying a videocard for 7 grand, not now not in 5 years. This prices we have now are unreasonable. If they get down, then great, gaming is back on the menu. If not, then understandable, we're in a darkest timeline so that tracks.

2

u/xhytdr 4d ago

Were you ever going to buy a 5090 even at MSRP? The price of this card is irrelevant unless youre even in thr target market

2

u/Nalivai 4d ago

At one point before we decended to hell, normal humans were the target market for high end gaming hardware, and back then I was buying top end gpus.

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u/Goronmon 4d ago

The bubble will "pop" likely the same way dot-com bubble popped. eCommerce and "internet" companies didn't disappear.

I would say Google and Amazon (for example) were both somewhat successful in the aftermath.

1

u/Nalivai 4d ago

Most of the dotcom companies actually disappeared, and the only remaining ones are those that managed to repurpose the infrastructure to do something useful for users, instead of bullshiting investors.
But the pop of this bubble will be more violent, more money at stakes and less actual "meat" behind the skin of the bubble.

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u/Goronmon 4d ago

Most of the dotcom companies actually disappeared, and the only remaining ones are those that managed to repurpose the infrastructure to do something useful for users, instead of bullshiting investors.

Sure, but would you describe the "dot-com" space as being larger than it was before the bubble popped or smaller?

Because I would definitely say its massively bigger than before the bubble.

So, if the "AI bubble" follows that path, then the companies that do survive will just fill in the space.

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u/Nalivai 4d ago

dot-com space wasn't about the existence of the internet. It was about investors blindly throwing money at anything that had slightly green tint and the word cyber in the name. It was about pets.com being valued at five orders of magnitude above their revenue . Modern "internet" companies exist not as a result of it, but if anything, in spite of it.
With LLM mongers it's even more stark, the amount of money they suck out of the economy on promises of future magical returns are way bigger, and the underlying value is way smaller.

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u/Goronmon 4d ago

Modern "internet" companies exist not as a result of it, but if anything, in spite of it.

The dot-com bubble was merely the recognition that ecommerce and "internet"-based companies were going to be massive in the future. But no one knew who or what was going to be the "winners" in the space, hence the "throwing money at everything" stage of the bubble.

But the underlying reason the bubble happened still ended up being valid.

With LLM mongers it's even more stark, the amount of money they suck out of the economy on promises of future magical returns are way bigger, and the underlying value is way smaller.

There were plenty of people that were convinced that the dot-com bubble was proof that the market was "way smaller" in that space.

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u/Animegamingnerd 4d ago

I honestly don't even think we are going that route, as even streaming services for games have kind of consistently fallen flat on their face time and time again.

I think what's more likely with consoles and PC parts are becoming more unaffordable espically with the next gen consoles and GPU. I think we are either looking at current gen with PS5 and to an extent Switch 2 being the baseline for a long time or even more studios going under, at least the ones dumb enough to ditch current gen hardware this decade.

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u/69ANIME69 4d ago

I honestly don't even think we are going that route, as even streaming services for games have kind of consistently fallen flat on their face time and time again.

The services will thrive when the hardware will get too expensive for us. I wouldn't be surprised if the next gen consoles started to aggressively push game streaming. The gen after that could be just some proprietary streaming boxes.

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u/conye-west 4d ago

It's a common doomerism but the experience is so dogshit for game streaming that there's no way it can take off as things currently are. Even ball and gun type gamers can tell the difference, it's not just hardcore nerds who notice. If the technology gets so good that it's basically indistinguishable, maybe then. But it wouldn't exactly be a doomsday scenario anymore at that point, albeit still far from great.

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u/Shuino7 4d ago

It's not going to be when it becomes too expensive for the end-user.

It's going to be when these businesses can force Streaming games to generate more income than selling copies.

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u/HazelCheese 4d ago

Game streaming wont happen for the same reason gpus are unaffordable to consumes.

Google couldn't make game streaming profitable when GPU was $700. They are not gonna be profitable when the hardware to run streams is 10x more

-3

u/CaioNintendo 4d ago

If it doesn’t happen because of hardware prices, the fact that AI has trivialized decompiling games will most certainly push the industry into that route anyway. Soon companies won’t allow us access to the games’ codes anymore.

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u/Nalivai 4d ago

AI has trivialized decompiling games

This is quite far away from truth

-1

u/CaioNintendo 4d ago

How so? It was an entirely manual process that took years and is now being done by AI in a matter of days. And I’m not here cheering for it. The consequence of this will be a worse experience for the consumer, as companies will use more drastic methods to protect the software.

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u/Nalivai 4d ago

It's not being done with AI in a matter of days, that's how. It's a bunch of smoke and mirrors and carefully curated half-truths and outright lying and a bunch of sweeping under the rug. In the end, best case scenario is that LLMs help already experienced people to do something that they already were doing anyway, but they spend a little less effort on it now (reportedly).
Very recently some people here were bolstering how AnyPS5 is an amazing product that took fraction of time to develop and how all the coders are in shambles now. And when I looked into it, it turned out that they only have one confirmed game, a small platformer which already has Windows build. And it's nothing revolutionary anyway even if it was true.

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u/CaioNintendo 4d ago

It's a bunch of smoke and mirrors and carefully curated half-truths and outright lying and a bunch of sweeping under the rug.

What are you talking about? There absolutely have been games (and other softwares) decompiled using AI.

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u/Nalivai 3d ago

I don't argue with that. I argue with the conclusion that since someone somewhere used an LLM to do something, it means LLM can do it now quickly and all the time and this problem is solved now.

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u/Sevla7 4d ago

This is what they want, specially now with AI reverse engineering so much stuff. But deep down they want a "monthly based service" even for singleplayer games.

By "they" I mean Nvidia itself wants that, so not even the one doing our cards are on our sie.

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u/entity2 4d ago

Call me a doomer, but I believe that's their intent. We'll all be using dumb terminals with basic hardware, and using shitty cloud streaming with laggy input.

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u/Taniwha_NZ 4d ago

Or, the way things are going, we will soon be playing games on PCs with converted H100 GPUs and 10tb of RAM that cost $50, because of the massive glut after the AI crash happens and all those datacenters get turned off.

1

u/HazelCheese 4d ago

This will not happen for the same reason gaming GPUs aren't affordable. EA is not gonna pay $7k per card to run a game streaming service which couldn't make profitable returns when cards were $700.

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u/dregwriter 4d ago

Ill be on linux if thats the case

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u/Glocklestop 4d ago

right, cause the OS is the issue here

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u/Jaggedmallard26 4d ago

shifted focus to cheap gains through AI that makes the game look like total ass

The more modern DLSS not set to an extremely aggressive performance mode looks great while also being one of the best anti-aliasing techniques, DLSS in pure anti-aliasing mode is easily the best at a far lower performance cost. The ones that suck are the older generations and software based ones. There are plenty of comparisons showing that the modern DLSS versions at balanced or above look pretty much identical to running natively with AA.

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u/14Pleiadians 4d ago

It makes great screenshots but in motion it's awful. For me the artifacts are quite noticable, also it is so blurry.

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u/ShinyHappyREM 4d ago

Just for fun I tried playing the newest Witcher 3 version in a 4k window (for the sharp UI) at DLSS Ultra Performance, and it's working out surprisingly well - even though the internal resolution should be only 720p. It's how I play it now all the time.

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u/awhaling 4d ago edited 4d ago

Yes, these things really need to evaluated in motion. So tired of how blurry everything is by default these days. It seems most people aren’t that bothered by it, but to me it looks so bad.

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u/14Pleiadians 4d ago

They're not just unbothered by it, they will insist you're making it up and that you can't spot artifacts in motion. You can claim you saw them, go back and find them in the recording, and they'll blow you off as hyper analyzing frames

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u/[deleted] 4d ago edited 4d ago

[deleted]

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u/kikimaru024 4d ago

LMAO absolute nonsense

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u/jay78910 4d ago

Let them reminisce. Probably someone that complains about RT and how their 2080 won't run modern games using modded drivers.

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u/McMammoth 4d ago

modded drivers

Weird I've never heard of this before

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u/a34fsdb 4d ago

Plenty of modern games both look great and are well optimized

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

[deleted]

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u/Oofric_Stormcloak 4d ago

And that's clearly not what they're talking about either.

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u/Shuino7 4d ago

If you don't want weird shit happening on your screen you really need to use DLAA and a native resolution.

DLSS or FSR in any variant of upscaling still has a shit ton of graphical issues. (Hair and fur especially)

Additionally, balanced or lower always looks terrible. At minimum you gotta use Quality.

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u/ricktencity 4d ago

I'd honestly be completely fine if GPU development stalled out if they just made them cheaper. Graphics have only been getting better by very tiny increments for a while now, I'd much rather be able to play things that look like they do these days with a card that costs a few hundred bucks than get an extra realistic shadow on horses nuts in rdr 3 or whatever

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u/JonesDahl 4d ago

we are far away from the peak of "graphic" fidelity. i put graphic in quotes because there are things outside of the common interpretation of the word. there are a lot of things we can improve on that would make a huge difference in the experience.

here are just some things of the top of my head

*actual cloth physics

*realistic fluid simulations 

*realistic physics simulation

*raytracing

*realistic simulations of bigger systems, such as having independent agents within a simulated world

*way higher frame rates

*VR improvements

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u/Sourpowerpete 4d ago

If you ask me, outside of having a good frame rate, none of these strike me as important for the experience. These seem to be the kinds of things that are bloating development time and blowing the budgets for games way out of proportion.

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u/JonesDahl 4d ago

that's like calling having shaders for bloat. it's meant to be incorporated into the engines which would help save development time.

imagine not having to fake cloth physics, but instead just tell the engine that this mesh is cloth and it will then behave appropriately 

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u/Sourpowerpete 4d ago edited 4d ago

I mean, if its quick and easy that's different. But it's not, and right now it's a level of fidelity that isn't necessary, and it certainly wouldn't "make a huge difference in the experience" as you put it.

Let me put it this way. Tell me how cloth physics makes a game fun vs just faking it (or not worrying about it in the first place), and I will concede my point.

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u/Covenantcurious 3d ago edited 3d ago

Tell me how cloth physics makes a game fun vs just faking it (or not worrying about it in the first place), and I will concede my point.

Playing a third person game and having your robe/cloak/mantle flow, flutter and drape around you in a realistic manner as you move around sounds pretty cool to me. It's a small thing but you spend a lot of time starring at your chatacter's behind and a lot of games will have cloth near constantly clipping or spazzing out in fast movement.

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u/JonesDahl 4d ago

i reject the question. it's a deliberate straw man of my point and you are seemingly not arguing in good faith. I also strongly reject that "fun" is somehow the most and/or the only important factor.

that's like saying Schindlers List isn't worthwhile because it wasn't "fun". if you only play games to experience whatever your definition of "fun" is, then more power to you, but arguing that this level of compute power is enough is just denying other people's definition of "fun".

But i'll answer it anyway;

if more realistic cloth physics were available, then we could make a game where you actually could design and sew your own clothes. with precise detail that also acts and behaves exactly how it would in real life. I think a lot of people would find that "fun" and it's not something that is really feasible with modern technology.

or:

incorporate that idea into a game like Baldurs Gate/ rdr / gta, so if your character got fat or buff, the clothes would stretch and bulge correctly and in doing so would *enhance immersion* which a lot of people would argue would increase their level of *fun*

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u/Sourpowerpete 4d ago

i reject the question. it's a deliberate straw man of my point and you are seemingly not arguing in good faith.

It's not a deliberate straw man, and I am arguing in good faith. I'm sorry if it appeared otherwise, although frankly I'm not sure how it appeared that way since as far as I can tell I've been rather cordial.

that's like saying Schindlers List isn't worthwhile because it wasn't "fun". if you only play games to experience whatever your definition of "fun" is, then more power to you, but arguing that this level of compute power is enough is just denying other people's definition of "fun".

I'd argue fun is the most important factor in a game. As the adage goes, 'The game is fun. If it's not fun, why bother?'. You can swap fun with enjoyment if that works better for you. I can't argue with the idea that my idea of fun for a game might be out of tune with the general community of gamers though, I mostly just play retro and indie games these days.

if more realistic cloth physics were available, then we could make a game where you actually could design and sew your own clothes. with precise detail that also acts and behaves exactly how it would in real life. I think a lot of people would find that "fun" and it's not something that is really feasible with modern technology.

incorporate that idea into a game like Baldurs Gate/ rdr / gta, so if your character got fat or buff, the clothes would stretch and bulge correctly and in doing so would enhance immersion which a lot of people would argue would increase their level of fun

So I have to ask how you're picturing the level of effort required to implement these things. Because in my mind, even if graphics and gaming development tools improved quite a bit, I still feel these would be features that require a lot of work for somewhat minimal pay out. To me, these examples are one or two steps above the "horse testicles shrink in cold weather" in RDR2. Admittedly custom clothes would be cooler and "more fun" than that, but the ratio of work to value seems pretty similar to me.

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u/JonesDahl 4d ago

why does it matter how difficult it is? was the amount of work that went into the lord of the rings trilogy not worth the effort? 

also, if we could simulate something as cloth way more realistic, the "only" cost would be the development of the simulation engine that you then throw massive amounts of computation on top off. thats obviously an oversimplification, just to be clear.

kinda how today you dont need to write your shaders or how the game engine should handle physics, it's just a standard function. since cloth physics wouldnt need to be all that different in every game. it would just be a natural part if a game engine that you can call upon whenever you need it, like lighting and volumetric fog. 

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u/PKMudkipz 4d ago

None of these are important enough to force me to spend thousands of dollars for to keep playing games

realistic simulations of bigger systems, such as having independent agents within a simulated world

This might, but I don't see what it has to do with graphical fidelity, strikes me as more of a CPU limited thing

1

u/JonesDahl 3d ago

who said anything about it being massively more expensive? was the gtx 1080 massively more expensive than the voodoo 3d? 

so we should continue developing cpu power but not gpu? but that goes against your first argument, wouldnt that make it way too expensive in your mind?

1

u/PKMudkipz 3d ago

so we should continue developing cpu power but not gpu? but that goes against your first argument, wouldnt that make it way too expensive in your mind?

No because I can more easily see the benefits of accelerated CPU development and it isn't anywhere near as expensive as GPUs

0

u/JonesDahl 3d ago edited 3d ago

...and i can easily see the benefits of accelerated gpu development, see my other comment for a list. also, how do you know its cheaper to develope cpus? that seems like something you made up

edit: ah the old man child classic, make shit up, get called on it, downvote and flee

14

u/kikimaru024 4d ago

gpu development seems to have slowed and shifted focus to cheap gains through AI that makes the game look like total ass

This is patently false, Reddit-tier illogic.

RX 6800 from 2020 (PS5 release year) is a 225W card. RX 9070 uses the same power & yet performs over 50% better, before upscaling/frame-gen.

You're blinded to the truth of technological progress because all you see are model numbers & prices.

Model number DOES NOT MATTER.
Only price & power consumption.
And prices are only up because of supply/demand imbalance.

12

u/theJaggedClown 4d ago

It’s nonsense now, but a lot has happened in the industry since the 9070 came out. We’re at a point where we don’t know if there will even be consumer GPUs coming out any time soon. Are RTX 6050s the future or will there be continued improvements that warrant an upgrade? Will these cards be ~$800 at launch or $2000? This is the main concern imo

6

u/JonesDahl 4d ago

i might be misunderstanding your comment, but are you celebrating a 50% increase over 6 years? thats pretty ass

and stop projecting. i am not obsessing over model numbers. 

-2

u/Kered13 4d ago

6 years later and it's only 50% better? That's nothing. Nothing. Compare the improvements in graphics cards in any prior six year period.

-2

u/kikimaru024 4d ago

Moore's Law does not hold forever.

9

u/dragonflysamurai 4d ago

Then the original claim is not “patently false” as you asserted.

-2

u/Kered13 4d ago

Yes, so gpu development seems to have slowed and shifted focus to cheap gains through AI. You agree with the poster above.

2

u/kikimaru024 4d ago

There's no "cheap gains".

Performance is still better. You just don't like it because you're under the illusion that native rendering is best.

-2

u/AlicesReflexion 4d ago

50% better over 6 years is quite dismal. Compare gen on gen gains in the early 2000s.

0

u/kikimaru024 4d ago

Completely different climate.

Gen-on-gen gains in the early 2000s also came with new APIs/instruction sets that rendered older GPUs nearly incompatible with new software/games.

7

u/AlicesReflexion 4d ago

Isn't that what they're saying? The climate is different than it was in the early 2000s, you can't expect to double your performance every two years, so we're increasingly moving in the direction of machine-learning enabled techniques like DLSS.

Though I generally have a higher opinion of this stuff than the above commenter. If it's become harder to cram more transistors in, then we do have to start figuring out how to use that same die space more efficiently.

2

u/EggstaticAd8262 4d ago

But with this extreme demand, surely the companies producing memory and what-not, will upscale like crazy.

Investors have to be frothing at their mouths at this market gap and extreme demand.

That has to translate into Graphics cards becoming cheaper

4

u/SagittaryX 4d ago

They are in the process of upscaling like crazy, but it will still take a couple years before that production comes fully online.

IIRC SK Hynix earlier this year reported their plans are to triple production by 2032.

3

u/ThisIsNotAFarm 4d ago

But with this extreme demand, surely the companies producing memory and what-not, will upscale like crazy.

No, because production foundries take a long time to spin up and they're not expecting this boom to last that long.

1

u/EggstaticAd8262 4d ago

They aren’t expecting it to last long? Where do you get that information?

2

u/ThisIsNotAFarm 4d ago

Its buried across a few older articles, but after getting burned in 2001, 2008, and 2018 by overbuilding and then having to deal with crashing prices, they're more weary this time.

1

u/JonesDahl 4d ago

because now they are still building the infrastructure from basically scratch, which means there is a start-up demand.

if a country without trains decided to take the leap into trainifying their country, there would be a massive demand for tracks, but that demand obviously won't last and will begin to taper off as more and more tracks are installed. sure, there will be need for more tracks in the future as more routes are laid and for maintenance, but the initial demand will be massively bigger.

5

u/JonesDahl 4d ago

maybe, has the production capabilities expanded since the chip shortage of 2020 though? i mean prices hasn't gone down much since the absolute insane peak.

a 3080 in sweden launched at 7825 SEK, a 5080 is right now about 16500 SEK, which is more than a 100% increase in 6.5 years. also note that the 5080 is 4 months shy of being 2 years old

2

u/EggstaticAd8262 4d ago

It’s just, companies producing gpu memory must be literally printing money? Supply and demand

I think it takes time to upscale, but I doubt there’ll be a time the next 20 years where people are like, “we have too much memory”

1

u/JonesDahl 4d ago

im not so sure. these companies probably see it as a bubble and has therefore not increased production. 

when the bubble bursts, they don't want to have a bunch of production capacity lowering the margins of their product.

this whole supply and demand thing is absolutely not meant to be taken as gospel

-1

u/EggstaticAd8262 4d ago

I can’t see it burst. Ai is incredibly useful.

2

u/MekaTriK 4d ago

It's useful but not however many trillion dollars useful.

The current API prices are heavily subsidised and as far as I'm aware most companies training the models aren't actually producing any profits.

That's why the RAM fabs are hedging their bets - the current RAM is a money printer, and they could get more money if they scaled up... But then they would be risking losing a lot of money if the insane investments into AI dry up and the market returns to old sizes.

1

u/EggstaticAd8262 4d ago

It would be terrible if they overshot and somehow we got video cards with loads of ram

0

u/JonesDahl 4d ago

it's not about that, it's currently way way way too expensive to be feasible.

and also over hyped 

-5

u/Glossed-Lam 4d ago

I think many of the AI-powered GPU systems of the last 5 years have been incredible. Ray tracing/path tracing and DLSS are incredible advances since the introduction of programmable shaders and CUDA.

Claiming it looks like ass seems like a kneejerk reaction to the underlying tech or something.

12

u/Beorma 4d ago

Ray tracing/path tracing

How are these technologies AI powered?

5

u/Jademalo 4d ago

Ray reconstruction is necessary for real time ray and path tracing to actually result in a cohesive image

0

u/I_Am_Jacks_Karma 4d ago

anything with dlss is ai

2

u/Beorma 4d ago

Ray tracing/path tracing aren't DLSS.

-2

u/I_Am_Jacks_Karma 4d ago

it still uses the ai portion of your gpu to render it. and the entire reason the ray tracing is possible in real-time nowadays is due to neural network learning stuff

27

u/flesjewater 4d ago

Don't pretend the "DLSS5" yass filter isn't a huge regression. Nobody wants that.

6

u/Glossed-Lam 4d ago

Agreed, though there are a bunch of qualifiers to that:

1) Judging it by pre-release builds injected into games with zero integration is bonkers, and that was 100% of the original complaints.

2) Nvidia fucked up by calling it DLSS5, because it actually runs alongside DLSS4.5 and does something different.

3) It looks great for environments, and only using it on that is something Devs can opt into.

4) Even if the conclusion as it is more properly supported/released is that it sucks ass, its one misstep in an incredible period of development since DLSS 1 came out in 2019.

7

u/NuggetHighwind 4d ago edited 4d ago

Judging it by pre-release builds injected into games with zero integration is bonkers

What is with people who keep saying this on Reddit? Are we just forgetting that NVIDIA's own video gave us this terrible-looking, yassified Grace Ashcroft? Who magically gets studio lighting, totally different makeup, and looks like a completely different person?

If the "yass filter" criticism was only because of people injecting it into unsupported games, and not actually because it really is just hideous AI slop, then NVIDIA wouldn't have made their own video look so shit.

0

u/ImMufasa 4d ago

Looking at the difference made by dlss 5 in NBA 2k and example from other games where the videos didn't rage bait by intentionally cranking the sliders or added multiple passes, I very much want that.

-3

u/JonesDahl 4d ago

i claim dlss looks like ass because in every single game ive tried it in makes the game look like shit. 

i try the different modes extensively but it always makes the games graphics act super weird or it completely destroys detail. it also introduces a bunch of weird artefacting around certain elements, like text. and this is at the Quality preset, i never ever use anything below that, because it looks like shit.

it's bad and i am not impressed

2

u/a34fsdb 4d ago

Something wrong on your end then. 

-1

u/JonesDahl 4d ago

keep shifting those goal posts 

2

u/ImMufasa 4d ago

Nothing is being shifted, there's countless objective examples of your claim being wrong.

-1

u/JonesDahl 4d ago

you seem to have wandered into a discussion you know nothing of either the subject being discussed nor the content of.

1

u/onlyheretobehelpful 4d ago

I legit would not be surprised if we just don't get any more consumer/enthusiast graphics cards, either for like 5+ years or maybe just never again. I kind of expect a big push for game streaming from now on as a result of the hardware situation + the AI recomp situation.

1

u/Taetrum_Peccator 3d ago

I’m glad my 4090 will carry me for a while. I neatly dodged this fiasco. I have enough RAM and storage to see me through years of bloated requirements.

1

u/JonesDahl 3d ago

i bought 64gb of ram juuuuust before the increase, i even bought some faster expensive ram, it cost me like 230 dollars lol

1

u/Taetrum_Peccator 3d ago

I have 128gb of the fastest RAM that existed in 2024 and 13TB of m.2 SSDs.

1

u/JonesDahl 3d ago

that's a lot of porn

28

u/fatalgeck0 4d ago

What is Orion?

49

u/XXXandVII 4d ago

The next Cyberpunk game from CD Project Red.

-30

u/Stump007 4d ago

It’s going to be the game of the century. Amazing graphics never seen before, huge world, you’ll be able to do anything! Can wait and Cdpr has never disappointed anyone. It will be awesome

27

u/randombean 4d ago

The great thing with single player RPGs is no need to buy them at full price on release when they're broken. I got Cyberpunk with the expansion for a decent cost and it was a blast without the troubles of release

10

u/Xeadriel 4d ago

It’s funny how people have forgotten this ancient trick.

5

u/Harley2280 4d ago

Nobody has forgotten it. "Patient gamers" are like vegans; they feel the need to bring it up in every conversation no matter how irrelevant it is.

0

u/Xeadriel 4d ago

Yeah, i suppose buying on release existed back then as well.

4

u/Samurai_Meisters 4d ago

But it's fun to play a game while it's still hot in the zeitgeist.

-11

u/StonksUpMan 4d ago

It was still an ok game, dlc was good though

-38

u/Stump007 4d ago

Good for you, I played it 2 years after release and it was still trash.

-24

u/Dopeistimeless 4d ago

Cyberpunk‘s World is horrible and boring . Can’t believe. Talk it good . NPCS are doing nothing and the world is very static and empty

-8

u/Stump007 4d ago

Yeah but Reddit narrative is the game somehow became great and it only sucked at release. Overlooking all fundamental flaws.

-9

u/Dopeistimeless 4d ago

All the downvotes prove you right. Don’t get the hype. It might look good but the world is just dead

11

u/EnterPlayerTwo 4d ago

All the downvotes prove you right.

Do people actually believe this? "People only hate me because I'm right!"

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

[deleted]

5

u/remmanuelv 4d ago

Working for big corpos which cyberpunk games constantly do (Deus Ex chief among them).

-13

u/aoi_desu 4d ago

Sounds boring

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2

u/Dr_Inferior 4d ago

upcoming game from the cyberpunk 2077 series

6

u/Maelstrom52 4d ago

It might be a "modern" game by then. There's going to be a bunch of articles about how the cyborgs in Cyberpunk Orion are so different from real cyborgs.

2

u/Ok_Dragonfruit_8102 4d ago edited 4d ago

There have been some absolutely crazy coding optimizations going on recently thanks to the latest frontier AI models, with many ports and decomps capable of 500fps+, PS5 emulated games going from 5fps to 100fps+ in under a week, people using it to get GTA4 running on a PSVita etc etc

Orion won't be out until 2029-2030, so imagine 4 more years of improvement to these AI models and it's feasible we'll be seeing insane graphics and physics simulations running on even extremely old hardware.

For clarification before anyone misunderstands I'm not talking about AI image generation or DLSS5, I'm talking about AI coding being used to find optimizations in existing code.

EDIT: Every downvote is just an ignorant idiot saying "Nuh-uh!". Opposing AI is one thing, but outright denying what is factually happening is just stupid. This comment got to -7 before people with more sense started seeing it.

4

u/AnOnlineHandle 4d ago

As soon as somebody annotates a decently sized dataset with objective entity proxies or cheap mesh proxies instead of the horror which is the text conditioning mapping problem, I expect we'll start seeing real time capable video models which can have any style from realism to cartoons being plugged into games, and most graphics will no longer require newer hardware, because so long as you can run the model it would be able to adapt to any style in a fixed budget.

1

u/CatProgrammer 4d ago

RIP unique art styles and custom stylization.

1

u/AnOnlineHandle 1d ago

The opposite. Proper annotation lets you control everything properly.

7

u/Wehavecrashed 4d ago

Running a PS5 emulator at 100fps on a 5080 doesn't mean anything.

4

u/-Mandarin 4d ago

It absolutely does when we've gone from 5fps to 100fps in such a short time. In a few months time we'll probably be at 300fps, and it will only continue to get better. As the person you're responding to said, imagining 4 more years of improvement we're going to see crazy gains in optimization.

And I guess you could claim that we've plateaued and won't see any improvements from now on, but that would be silly. Nothing remotely indicates that's the case with how steadily the improvements have been coming.

0

u/Wehavecrashed 4d ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

1

u/Ok_Dragonfruit_8102 4d ago

That's just lazy, man. If you want to make an argument that involves the pareto principle go ahead and write it out, but don't just paste the wiki article and call it done.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago edited 4d ago

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u/[deleted] 4d ago edited 4d ago

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1

u/Games-ModTeam 4d ago

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1

u/Bannakaffalatta1 3d ago

"We have so much to thank these wonderful AI models for!!!"

Says the person replying to comments mentioning how spending 6k for a graphics card shouldn't be normal and is a direct result of the AI bubble that is gonna burst hard.

1

u/-Shoebill- 4d ago

I don't think consumer hardware is going to exist if shit doesn't blow up soon. I hope so because I'm never going to be a cloud gamer. I'd play indie on aged out and used hardware until it's completely unrealistic to maintain but that's it.

1

u/Zyclunt 4d ago

Gaming will be streamed on the cloud with shitty input lag

0

u/BaconIsntThatGood 4d ago

Just change your dream to not be a 5090, easy

0

u/Vandergrif 4d ago

when cyberpunk project Orion releases

Well by that point you'll probably have to nearly fight to the death with the nanomachine-addled fiends in the RAM mines just to get even 2GB worth, and then do the NVME run across the wasteland between BunkerGPT and the Solid State Silo, dodging the large swarms of AI drones of course, and then bargain with the Ghoul of Dell for whatever remaining parts, most likely at the cost of a good chunk of your soul.