Nvidia reportedly ends GeForce RTX 5090 graphics card production

[u/SharkyIzrod]

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/nvidia-reportedly-ends-geforce-rtx-5090-graphics-card-production

[u/Sourpowerpete]

If you ask me, outside of having a good frame rate, none of these strike me as important for the experience. These seem to be the kinds of things that are bloating development time and blowing the budgets for games way out of proportion.

[u/JonesDahl → u/Sourpowerpete]

that's like calling having shaders for bloat. it's meant to be incorporated into the engines which would help save development time.

imagine not having to fake cloth physics, but instead just tell the engine that this mesh is cloth and it will then behave appropriately 

[u/Sourpowerpete → u/JonesDahl]

I mean, if its quick and easy that's different. But it's not, and right now it's a level of fidelity that isn't necessary, and it certainly wouldn't "make a huge difference in the experience" as you put it.

Let me put it this way. Tell me how cloth physics makes a game fun vs just faking it (or not worrying about it in the first place), and I will concede my point.

[u/Covenantcurious → u/Sourpowerpete]

Tell me how cloth physics makes a game fun vs just faking it (or not worrying about it in the first place), and I will concede my point.

Playing a third person game and having your robe/cloak/mantle flow, flutter and drape around you in a realistic manner as you move around sounds pretty cool to me. It's a small thing but you spend a lot of time starring at your chatacter's behind and a lot of games will have cloth near constantly clipping or spazzing out in fast movement.

[u/JonesDahl → u/Sourpowerpete]

i reject the question. it's a deliberate straw man of my point and you are seemingly not arguing in good faith. I also strongly reject that "fun" is somehow the most and/or the only important factor.

that's like saying Schindlers List isn't worthwhile because it wasn't "fun". if you only play games to experience whatever your definition of "fun" is, then more power to you, but arguing that this level of compute power is enough is just denying other people's definition of "fun".

But i'll answer it anyway;

if more realistic cloth physics were available, then we could make a game where you actually could design and sew your own clothes. with precise detail that also acts and behaves exactly how it would in real life. I think a lot of people would find that "fun" and it's not something that is really feasible with modern technology.

or:

incorporate that idea into a game like Baldurs Gate/ rdr / gta, so if your character got fat or buff, the clothes would stretch and bulge correctly and in doing so would *enhance immersion* which a lot of people would argue would increase their level of *fun*

[u/Sourpowerpete → u/JonesDahl]

i reject the question. it's a deliberate straw man of my point and you are seemingly not arguing in good faith.

It's not a deliberate straw man, and I am arguing in good faith. I'm sorry if it appeared otherwise, although frankly I'm not sure how it appeared that way since as far as I can tell I've been rather cordial.

that's like saying Schindlers List isn't worthwhile because it wasn't "fun". if you only play games to experience whatever your definition of "fun" is, then more power to you, but arguing that this level of compute power is enough is just denying other people's definition of "fun".

I'd argue fun is the most important factor in a game. As the adage goes, 'The game is fun. If it's not fun, why bother?'. You can swap fun with enjoyment if that works better for you. I can't argue with the idea that my idea of fun for a game might be out of tune with the general community of gamers though, I mostly just play retro and indie games these days.

if more realistic cloth physics were available, then we could make a game where you actually could design and sew your own clothes. with precise detail that also acts and behaves exactly how it would in real life. I think a lot of people would find that "fun" and it's not something that is really feasible with modern technology.

incorporate that idea into a game like Baldurs Gate/ rdr / gta, so if your character got fat or buff, the clothes would stretch and bulge correctly and in doing so would enhance immersion which a lot of people would argue would increase their level of fun

So I have to ask how you're picturing the level of effort required to implement these things. Because in my mind, even if graphics and gaming development tools improved quite a bit, I still feel these would be features that require a lot of work for somewhat minimal pay out. To me, these examples are one or two steps above the "horse testicles shrink in cold weather" in RDR2. Admittedly custom clothes would be cooler and "more fun" than that, but the ratio of work to value seems pretty similar to me.

[u/JonesDahl → u/Sourpowerpete]

why does it matter how difficult it is? was the amount of work that went into the lord of the rings trilogy not worth the effort? 

also, if we could simulate something as cloth way more realistic, the "only" cost would be the development of the simulation engine that you then throw massive amounts of computation on top off. thats obviously an oversimplification, just to be clear.

kinda how today you dont need to write your shaders or how the game engine should handle physics, it's just a standard function. since cloth physics wouldnt need to be all that different in every game. it would just be a natural part if a game engine that you can call upon whenever you need it, like lighting and volumetric fog. 

[u/Sourpowerpete → u/JonesDahl]

why does it matter how difficult it is? was the amount of work that went into the lord of the rings trilogy not worth the effort?

Because game development budgets have massively inflated, as have development times and hardware costs. In my opinion it's not sustainable and something has to change. One of those things, again in my opinion, is the obsession with endlessly chasing fidelity. When you get such striking failures like Concord as we have recently, it's obvious something's just not right.

Also, fair enough, you're envisioning easy to implement cloth physics(for game devs, not the engine devs). I don't think that's realistic right now, but I see the vision you have. I still don't think it's necessary to pour time and money into that right now though, not while hardware has stalled and prices have exploded.

[u/JonesDahl → u/Sourpowerpete]

not while hardware has stalled and prices have exploded. 

but this was my point from the very first comment. i was literally saying that gpu development had slowed down in favor of cheap AI filtering.

the fact that my comments are down voted and the only arguments against me seems to be confused ramblings that confuses my points. and i am the one being called out for having "knee jerk reactions".

this place has really become facebook 2.0