r/Gotham • u/BatmanKnight4747 • 7d ago
Is there really anything that says Gotham isn’t Dceu
I follow a modified game theory head cannon where Jeremiah brainwashes Tim Drake to be the new joker and then Bruce killing Jeremiah leaving Tim Drake as the current joker so besides that is there any thing that really says Gotham and Ben Affleck’s Batman can’t be one in the same
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u/Stuckinthevortex 7d ago
The complete lack of visual cohesion? Besides that, you have a very different Victor Zsasz appearing in Birds of Prey
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u/Pro_Bot_____ 6d ago
Thomas and Martha Wayne's deaths, for sure. Victor Zsasz is clearly a different guy. Also, why Tim Drake?
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u/BatmanKnight4747 6d ago
Dick graysons name was on a headstone ( his dads name is John) and Jason Todd is confirmed not to be
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u/PG2904 5d ago
That was actually about to be retconned, there was a Nightwing movie in the works for the DCEU which would have had Dick alive and confirmed the dead Robin to be Todd before the whole thing got canned for the DCU (which is doing far better anyways).
Also Gotham being DCEU implies that Jeremiah went on to become Jared Leto Joker. Which, like... no. That should be proof enough that they aren't the same universe.
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u/BatmanKnight4747 5d ago
No Jeremiah became joker 1 who before being kills brainwashed Robin into becoming joker 2 which is Jared letto
But I didn’t know that nightwing thing good to know1
u/Pro_Bot_____ 4d ago
Honestly, you'd be better off connecting Gotham with the Arrowverse. You can say that Gotham and Pennyworth took place in Earth-38. When that combined into Earth-Prime, it made Renee Montoya the Gotham version, added Barbara Kean, made Victor Zsasz pretty much the exact same character, made Ra's al Ghul the predecessor of... Ra's al Ghul, added easter eggs with Professor Pyg to his Gotham variant... etc.
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u/MovieFan1984 6d ago
Gotham was created for FOX as a stand-alone Batman series.
It's not connected to any other film or series in a continuity sense.
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u/ManufacturerDue815 6d ago
A lot of things. Also, the fact that Alfred was never a butler in the DCEU. He's Bruce's head of security.
And Bruce actually moves out of the Wayne Manor at 18 to live in that penthouse you see him in Batman v Superman.
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u/MovieFan1984 6d ago
Are you sure about all of this? Which films establish this, BVS or JL?
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u/ManufacturerDue815 6d ago
A guidebook tie-in mentioned the Bruce moving out thing before BvS came out and Zack Snyder confirmed the details about him moving out in a 2018 interview.
As for Alfred, same guidebook mentioned his role, and if you watch the films he appears in, they never once mention him being a butler except in those funny drawing end credit sequences of Shazam which logically you can dismiss as Shazam's imagination because he logically shouldn't know anything about Alfred at that point.
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u/MovieFan1984 6d ago
I just watch the movies. I don't follow tie-in merchandise. Did any of this make it into the films themselves? While I love BTS, regarding the Snyder interview, if it's not in the film, it doesn't count.
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u/Pro_Bot_____ 4d ago
That's not how canon works. Just because you didn't watch or read something doesn't mean it doesn't count. Your personal experience doesn't dictate anything.
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u/MovieFan1984 4d ago
I don't care about extended merchandise, I really don't. I watch movies to watch movies. If you want it to count for me, put it in the movie. If I have to go search for answers on the internet, you've made a bad movie.
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u/Pro_Bot_____ 4d ago
Okay, and that's fine for your head-canon, but the question wasn't about what you count. When talking about a fictional universe objectively, you can't just ignore things because you never looked at them. If someone brought it up and has evidence for it, that 100% counts.
You're literally talking about what counts "for you," which is ultimately a personal preference. That's fine... doesn't change that what they said is true. You can pretend it isn't for your own enjoyment obviously, it's still just a movie, but come on now. Being a casual viewer is good and all, but it's not something to brag about.
I'm trying to avoid sounding patronising here (and I hope I'm not). I'm just trying to say that you can dismiss things in your own world when watching, bur in a greater discussion you have no control over that.
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u/MovieFan1984 4d ago
Just to be clear, I was only criticizing the filmmaking process, not arguing tie-in stuff as not canon. I'm a big fan of "put it in the movie" and don't make people go on a wild goose chase on the internet. Fair enough?
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u/Pro_Bot_____ 4d ago
Ohhh, then I agree with you.
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u/MovieFan1984 4d ago
That said, as a Trekkie, it is fun to go on the fan sites and read up on all of the extra shit that almost made it into the show. Stuff you don't need for the movie or show to work, but fun knowing on top. Like in Star Trek, you can find as much info on the background ships as the Enterprise itself. LOL
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u/EDAboii 6d ago
Well, first off, it's Dick Grayson who is the dead Robin that the suit references in the DCEU. Not Tim Drake.
Other than that... Victor Zsasz is in Birds of Prey and is clearly not the same one as Gotham. Same goes for Jim Gordon, and just Gotham in general tbh. Also same goes for Bruce himself. Affleck just isn't very similar to Gotham's Bruce.
Like you can make as much shit up as you want to connect the two. That's fine. You're just doing A LOT of mental gymnastics to do it.
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u/BatmanKnight4747 6d ago
What about the dick Grayson grave, in that universe he died before Bruce’s parents, and with Jason confirmed to not be Tim is the clear answer
Gordan can age jsyk
Affleck isn’t a kid Bruce so yeah he wouldn’t be very similar due watch the film theory theory where Robin is joke it explains a lot1
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u/Drew_S_05 6d ago
Their versions of Harley Quinn are pretty different
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u/BatmanKnight4747 5d ago
Well Jeremiah has multiple Harley’s throughout
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u/Drew_S_05 5d ago
Pretty sure it was just the one, she just got a couple different designs
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u/BatmanKnight4747 5d ago
I remember one of his Harley’s being killed so he then got a new ine
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u/Drew_S_05 5d ago
Eh. Well, someone else pointed out that the DCEU and Gotham have incredibly different versions of Victor Zsasz, so
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u/Pro_Bot_____ 4d ago
Echo is objectively not Harley Quinn. The show makes this clear. Harley Quinn never appeared in Gotham.
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u/Drew_S_05 4d ago
I mean, if it walks like a Harley and quacks like a Harley
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u/Pro_Bot_____ 4d ago
...then it is ultimately still a separate character.
That's like saying that all the Robins are actually Dick Grayson. She's supposed to be a predecessor.
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u/Drew_S_05 4d ago
Well, unlike Robin, Harley is not typically a legacy mantle. Echo either IS Harley, or takes the place of Harley in this universe, which means there won't be a "real" Harley later
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u/Pro_Bot_____ 4d ago
They literally imply in the finale that Echo will be replaced, meaning Harley Quinn is a different character.
Echo is a reference to the character but is absolutely NOT the character.
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u/Beneficial-Tune-7295 6d ago
Well one thing is Tim Drake and every other version of Robin besides Dick Grayson doesn’t exist in the dceu and Dick Grayson is dead anyways so that doesn’t leave anyone to have been brainwashed into being the Joker. I love Gotham but hate the dceu I’m glad they aren’t connected.
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u/Enigma1755 7d ago
But like, why would you want that. I'd be so mad if they confirmed Gotham Bruce grows up to be the worst batman.
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u/shagan90 6d ago
Ben Affleck did fine yall are ridiculous
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u/BatmanKnight4747 6d ago
I actually like him a lot it was just a wrong place wrong time situation, yk?
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u/Enigma1755 6d ago
Batman doesn't kill, and did you see him in the flash. Absolutely embarrassing.
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u/shagan90 6d ago
Keatons Batman killed. Kilmers Batman killed. Bales Batman killed a LOT. So why do yall insist on only harping on Afflecks Batman for killing? Bale has JUST as many on screen kills if you discount the nightmare sequence and parademons.
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u/BatmanKnight4747 6d ago
Ever Batman but Pattinson has killed
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u/shagan90 6d ago
Yeah i was gonna say that but couldnt remember if Clooneys killed anyone. But yeah, people for some reason pretend Bale didnt kill when he had over a dozen kills.
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u/Higgsparticleofgod 6d ago
George Clooney is right there
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u/Future-Turtle 7d ago
You can headcanon whatever you want, but they aren't actually connected.