My vacation in Greece is done. The last stop is at island Naxos. Right next to the port is a small islet Palatia and according to legends this is the place where Theseus abandoned Ariadne.

1. Who are the different characters?
   
2. what is their role in this scene?
   
3. what happens in this scene?

“Like his creator, Odysseus is an epic poet: the grand saga of his nostos is comparable to the poem in which it is set” (Heubeck 1990, p. 15)

The authorial narrator of the Odyssey, however hard we may try, makes it impossible to assume that Odysseus invented his journey. There is a way for us to learn the entirety of Odysseus’ way back home using only his outlines and asides, scattered all through the poem; to do that we must read in this order (summ. — summary; narr. — main narrative):

> xxiii 310–313 (summ. Ismaros–Cyclopes), i 68–75 (blinding), ii 15–20 (last victim of the Cyclops), xxiii 314–321 (summ. Aiolos–Circe), viii 446–448 (Circe’s knot), xxiii 322–325 (summ. Underworld), xxiii 267–284 (the prophecy), xxiii 326–332 (summ. Sirens–cattle), i 6–9 (cattle), i 11–17 (confinement), v 1–xiii 196 (narr. second council–return).

The summary, though uttered by Odysseus (reported speech), is part of the author’s own framework. Lord notes: “Such résumés are perfectly normal in oral poetry, and numerous examples can be found.” (1960, p. 177) Within the Odyssey itself also: Telemachos' summary of iii–iv in xvii 109–149, and Odysseus’ summary of v–vi in vii 244–296. And in the Iliad: e.g. Achilleus’ summary of I 8–348 in I 365–392. And Beowulf’s summary of fitts X–XXVI in XXVIII–XXXI.

There is a neat parallel of function found in the Odyssey and Beowulf summaries. While Beowulf’s recounting to Hygelac marks a transition between two halves of the story, from warrior to king, Odysseus’ recounting to Penelope marks a transition between the epic’s theme (homecoming, establishment of the household) and its resolution (Odysseus’ reclamation of Penelope), from vagabond to king. Both poems tie the events previously told together before going onwards with the “plot.”

Considering further the summary in vii, if we wanted to convey with Odysseus’ direct speech alone the narrative reconstructed above, we can do that too, going all the way up to his encounter with Nausikaa:

> ix 12–xi 329 (introduction–catalogue of women), xi 385–xii 449 (dead heroes–confinement), vii 244–296 (confinement–Nausikaa).

Adding to this also xxiii 338–341 (summ. Scheria–return), we get a mirror of the author’s journey narrative.

Having all this (and more) in mind, West notes: “we must not make the mistake of supposing [...] that the placing of the adventures in Odysseus’ mouth is meant to raise any question about their reality status. [The author] several times alludes to them as factual in his own persona [...], and never suggests that Odysseus’ narration is anything but a truthful report of what happened.” (2014, p. 97)

As the so-called Cretan Tales (the lies Odysseus tells following his return) have little (positive, in fact) impact on the journey’s status itself, I chose not to analyse them here. I also chose to leave out certain details that could strengthen my point, simply because this post is already too long as it stands.

~

Cited works:

- Lord 1960: Albert B. Lord, The Singer of Tales (Atheneum 1971 ed.).

- Heubeck 1990: Alfred Heubeck, A Commentary on Homer’s Odyssey, Volume II: Books IX–XVI (Clarendon Press; with Arie Hoekstra).

- West 2014: Martin L. West, The Making of the Odyssey (Oxford University Press).

Throughout this post I referred to the Lattimore translations of the two epics, choosing also to use his name variants. As for Beowulf, it was John Porter’s translation illuminated by Nicholas Parry.

I've been reading a translation of the Odyssey that constantly uses the term “dart” to refer to what Artemis supposedly shoots/throws to kill people which seems to be the usual translation for types of projectiles other than arrows. As far as research has brought to me, statues of Artemis only show her with bow and arrows, but at the same time she was worshipped at Sparta where women could partake in sports, which included javelin throw. So anyone here has more precise sources for if the translation is right to use the term darts or a link to some older artistic depiction(s) of Artemis using a javelin?

Hi all,

My son is all about Greek mythology right now and I’m looking for more books for him. He has read everything by Rick Riordan (so all Percy Jackson, etc. books), he’s watched the movie and show, he’s read an age appropriate version of the Odyssey, he listens to the Greeking Out podcast, basically all low hanging fruit has been consumed.

I’d love to find more of an encyclopedia type book that has the lore for tons of myths and god/goddesses, but I don’t see a ton of offerings when I search. He is an advanced reader, so he can handle things above grade level, but he’s definitely not a fully adult level reader yet (also, I want to keep it semi-age appropriate from a sexual standpoint as he’s pretty naive and innocent to those things).

Any suggestions? Thank you!

I coach strength training in Billings, Montana, and I've been working back through the Labours in Apollodorus. The fifth one keeps nagging at me, less for the river trick than for the paperwork afterward.

In Library 2.5.5, Eurystheus orders Heracles to clear the dung from Augeas's cattle in a single day. Heracles makes a side deal with Augeas: a tenth of the herd if he finishes on time. With Augeas's son Phyleus as witness, he breaks through the wall of the cattle-yard, turns the Alpheus and the Peneus through it, and opens an outlet on the other side.

Then it goes wrong at both ends:

- Augeas learns the job was ordered by Eurystheus anyway and refuses to pay. At the arbitration Phyleus testifies against his own father, and Augeas banishes them both.
- Eurystheus refuses to count the labour at all, because Heracles did it for hire.

Put that next to the Hydra, which Apollodorus says was discounted because Iolaus helped, and you get two rules: no help, no pay. Diodorus also frames the stables as a task to be done without help from anyone.

So the labours seem to be defined less by danger than by conditions: done alone, done as service, nothing gained. The stables aren't dangerous at all, which makes the payment ruling the whole point of the episode.

Is there an ancient source that explains why being paid voids a labour? I've seen it read as being about Heracles' servitude to Eurystheus, but I'd like to know whether any ancient author spells that out, or whether it's Apollodorus tidying the count to twelve.

https://www.deviantart.com/rah-t/art/Cybele-cures-Dionysus'-madness-(page-1)-1388744096-1388744096)

I have a question/a theory regarding Odysseus's stay with Circe (I'm taking only Homer into account, for me, the Telegony doesn't count as "canon," insofar as that word is even applicable to mythology at all).

If I remember correctly, he told the story about Circe himself, whereas in the case of Calypso we see him from the gods' perspective, right? What if he embellished everything? Like, "I'm such an alpha male, I was on equal footing with a goddess, I tamed her, subjugated her to my will, and left whenever I wanted. Yes, she turned my men into pigs, but I came, drew my sword, she got scared, fell to her knees, begged me for love, and I graciously agreed."

But in reality, did he, just as with Calypso, cry and suffer on the beach? It seems more likely to me that Circe would sooner have said, "I'll free your men, and in exchange you're my slave for a year."

Otherwise it comes out strange, under almost identical conditions, with Calypso he cries for seven years straight, while with Circe he lives for a year almost like a demigod.

After all, he arrives among the P as a beggar, he can't fail to make an impression on them.

And the same goes for Circe's advice about the route. If he said, "I got lost at sea, led the crew at random, and they died"-then he's also an incompetent commander. But "a goddess gave us detailed instructions, but they didn't listen"-that sounds much better.

Or else, as a last resort, they simply wrecked the ship at Circe's place first, but the damage was repairable within a year, and he made the goddess up

It’s been a minute (or a few months…) but I finally finished the Trojan Royal Family (at least the ones I decided to draw).

Image 1 left to right: Priam, Hecuba, Hector, Andromache, and Paris.

Image 2 left to right: Deiphobus, Helenus, Cassandra, Troilus, and Polyxena.

The names are on the drawing next to each character but there is the list anyways. These were really fun to design, and I hope you all enjoy!

Next on the list is doing some Trojan allies, but I can’t verify if those will be who I post next. There are a few other things I want to draw, so no promises! Thanks everyone!

I’ve been brainstorming on a project for a class and wanted to play around with the idea of making a simple educational visual novel that was Greek mythology themed! Of course I had to start with Zeus. I wanted to try a somewhat more modern vibe. I’m not exactly sure what the setting will be yet though

If you were reading a book or story of the Greek Gods without a design of them described in the story itself, what design/look would you envision for them?

I mapped where the Greek myths are set, including the routes of Heracles, Theseus, Perseus, the Argo, and Odysseus.

I'm looking for feedback from people who know the sources well.

The project maps 65 mythological places across Greece, the 19 Olympian gods and their cult sites, major monsters, and underworld entrances such as Acheron, Tainaron, Lerna, and the Styx. The journeys are drawn stop-by-stop from ancient sources, including Apollodorus for Heracles, Plutarch for Theseus, and Apollonius for the Argonauts.

Two things I'd especially like feedback on:

1. Every location is labeled according to the evidence behind it: excavated, ancient tradition, or debated. Did we classify anything incorrectly?

2. For the Odyssey, I chose to mark the wanderings as "beyond the map" rather than force them onto Sicily, Tunisia, or other modern locations. Would you have mapped them anyway?

Full disclosure: I built this for Olympus Estate. The atlas is free, has no ads, and doesn't require sign-ups.

https://www.olympusestate.com/atlas/

seems like r/shittyaskhistory question, but I am reading Steven Fry's myth retelling and in the Ixion myth why does Zeus feel the need to make such an elaborate plan? Does he not believe his wife? And why doesn't Hera punish the man herself?

AOE is written on a lot go do with Athena, does Hermes have an equivalent?

hope y'all like this drawing i made

Since the Greek myths we know represent only a small fraction of the monumental body of mythology—most of which has likely been lost—the fact that so few have survived leaves room for all sorts of speculation. What if there existed a trickster god among the Greek pantheon, much like Loki from Germanic mythology?